After We've Found Time Again

[Jonathan]

You may have something there Marcelita. My old excuse for drinking was to say that it was the only thing that stopped me thinking and allowed me to feel. Now I may just say that 'I'm immersing myself in the present.'

[Marcelita]

Jonathan wrote: "You may have something there Marcelita. My old excuse for drinking was to say that it was the only thing that stopped me thinking and allowed me to feel. Now I may just say that 'I'm immersing myself in the present."

My husband just asked, from another room, "What are you laughing about?"

[Renato]

LOL! Good point, Jonathan!

[Jonathan]

...or 'I feel the present calling me' :-)

[Dave]

The Shattuck book is excellent. After pouring over a bunch Proust books I believe it is the best "one stop shopping" to start with on the commentary.

He, he, yes, I remember 78 RPM records Marcelita. Never owned any, but heard some.

I've purchased the ebook version of William Carter's Biography in prep for reading it with the group. But I've been peeking at it. I was pleased to see that Proust used his own medical regimen in creating Aunt Leonie - makes me feel closer to the Luminous Source. I'm not quite there yet in the rigor of my own routine, but I will start sending my doctors five page emails on the state of my bowls and other health essentials.

As for my Chi, my chosen path is to conform my external behavior to focus my inner self. So I've taken to wearing my full-length fur coat over my nightshirt and motoring out with my chauffeur at the wheel at 2:30AM. Social life is limited in San Antonio in the wee hours of the mornings, but I make do by hobnobbing with the best clientele at all night Supermarkets and Fast food drive thru's.

[Dave]

Sadly, the present is no longer an option for me, liquor does not mix with my pills.

[Dave]

I was browsing on Professor Carter's website and found a link to Joseph Epstein's Review of Anna Muhlstein's book M. Proust's Library. Published in the Wall Street Journal in 2012 and entitled "You Are What You Read", the review is very good. But it was the first paragraph that caught my eye:

"No one should read Marcel Proust's "In Search of Lost Time" for the first time. A first reading, however carefully conducted, cannot hope to unlock the book's complexity, its depth, its inexhaustible richness. Roughly a million words and more than 3,000 pages long, it is a novel I have read twice, and one of the reasons I continue to exercise and eat and drink moderately and have a physical every year into my 70s is that I hope to live long enough to read it one more time."

Another good article from The New Criterion Volume 19 in 2000 by Daniel Mark Epstein entitled Proust regained.

http://promethee.philo.ulg.ac.be/engd...

And this is a fun website with lots of info (Marcelita may have already recommended these).
http://www.readingproust.com/index.htm

[Marcelita]

Dave wrote: "And this is a fun website with lots of info (Marcelita may have already recommended these)...."

Yes, I believe you can learn something from almost any website. And those you discover on your own seem to remain with you, rather than clicking through a list of someone else's recommendations.

Stephen Fall has his site divided up into the volumes, which is very helpful for new readers.
Example: Swann's Way http://www.pinterest.com/pin/26099774...

Here are some of my favorites--start at the bottom (with some duplicates)
http://www.pinterest.com/marcelitaswa...

[Marcelita]

A present, from French Musique.

This radio program plays the music in Proust...within the context of the novel.
I don't understand French, but I know the novel well enough to enjoy this collection of songs and poems.

DU CÔTÉ DU PHONOGRAPHE DE MARCEL PROUST
By Jean-Yves Pattie

" The auditor, '... as a visitor electricity exposure can not believe the voice that renders the phonograph is still unaltered spontaneously emitted by a person ...' (Marcel Proust), find the artists, works, sounds recorded by the same wonderful phonograph ... The other world voice intact and fragile emotions: a musical journey in the work of Marcel Proust through the discs and cylinders recorded the lifetime of the author! Everything except the famous sonata Vinteuil which remains a mystery ..." Google Translated (Horrors!)

http://www.francemusique.fr/emission/...

English:
https://translate.google.com/translat...

Four Programs:

1) ...et Wagner
Song list: http://www.francemusique.fr/emission/...

Listen: http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...

2) Morel et les Verdurin
Song List: http://www.francemusique.fr/emission/...

Listen: http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...

3) Italie Venise Some selections-Reynaldo Hahn singing and playing the piano!
Song List: http://www.francemusique.fr/emission/...

Listen: http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...

4) Combray-Paris
Song List: http://www.francemusique.fr/emission/...

Listen: http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...

[Dave]

Thanks Marcelita, I'm using my iTunes library to listen to the program listings I own. Although I have to admit there is a haunting quality to singing voices from old recordings that cannot be duplicated today.

[Marcelita]

My curse, not being able to understand spoken French, is especially stabbing, when I hear Jean-Yves Patti mention Alfred Agostinelli! Listening to this music, within the context of the novel, must be fascinating.

Here are some specific tracks that may be of interest:

From the "Italie Venise" program:
Reynaldo Hahn singing and playing the piano.
http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...
or
direct: http://www.francemusique.fr/sites/def...

@3:00 (Introduction earlier)
♫ C. Gounod
Aimons-nous
Reynaldo Hahn, chant et piano
Disque Columbia, Paris, 1927

@9:15 (Introduction earlier)
♫ R. Hahn
Venezia
Reynaldo Hahn, chant et piano
Disque Gramophone, Paris, 1919


From the "Combray and Paris" program;
Proust loved popular songs; one of his favorite performers was Felix Mayol.
http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...

@39:30 (Introduction)
@40:30
♫ Spalin
Viens Poupoule
Felix Mayol, de la Scala de Paris
Disque G&T, Paris, 1903

From the "...et Wagner" program:
http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...

@42:30 (Introduction)
@43:05
♫ L. van Beethoven
Sonate – final – n°12 op 26
Edouard Risler, piano
Disque Pathé saphir, Paris, 1917
(From James Connelly: "Édouard Risler (mentioned at IV, 400) played Hahn's music to accompany Mme Lemaire's recitation of Proust's poems from Les Plaisirs et les jours at her salon in 1895 -")

@53:00 (introduction)
@53:48
♫ L. van Beethoven
Trio op 131 – fin –
Quatuor Capet Lucien Capet, Hewitt, Benoit and Delobelle.
Disque Columbia, Paris, 1927 / 1928
(From James Connelly: "The Capet Quartet came to entertain Proust in the night at 102, boulevard Haussmann.")


Finally, a personal favorite, becauseI hear echos of the Arabian Nights.
According to Bill Carter's biography, along with Capet and Enesco, Jacques Thibaud was one of the most famous violists.
From the "Italie Venise" program:
http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...

@56:00 (Introduction)
@56:36
♫ R.Korsakoff
Hymne au soleil
Jacques Thibaud, violon
Harold Craxton, piano
Disque HMV, Londres, 1921

Aside:
"What are the characteristics of the game of Jacques Thibaud, Georges Enesco, quartets Chicken Capet, artists that interest and move him? Represented for him the "First Sonata" by Saint-Saëns, "First Sonata" Fauré's "Sonata" Franck for violin and piano and the last "Quartet" of Beethoven?"
Google translated. ((Chicken? Yikes! )

"Proust et le violon intérieur" par Anne Penesco, Janvier 2011
http://www.editionsducerf.fr/html/fic...

"Quelles sont les caractéristiques du jeu de Jacques Thibaud, de Georges Enesco, des Quatuors Poulet et Capet, artistes qui l'intéressent et l'émeuvent ? Que représentent pour lui la « Première Sonate » de Saint-Saëns, la « Première Sonate » de Fauré, la « Sonate » de Franck pour violon et piano et les derniers « Quatuors » de Beethoven ?"
http://www.editionsducerf.fr/html/fic...

[Dave]

Marcelita wrote: "Here are some specific tracks that may be of interest:

From the "Italie Venise" program:
Reynaldo Hahn singing and playing the piano.
http://www.francemusique.fr/player/re...
or
d..."
Thank. you, you're always so generous and helpful

[Marcelita]

Another present? Au contraire...some would considered this a distracting drug. ;)

Because Proust read voraciously, he reminds me of a intellectual-hoarder...filling his novel with unknown references that my eyes tend to ignore.

However, there are times when I am curious and need a general introduction...maybe something on Schopenhauer?

So, I open my "opium" link:

If you do not yet have Melvyn Bragg's "In Our Time Archive"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl
bookmarked, here are some of my indespensible links.

BBC Radio 4 In Our Time - Archive
Browse the In Our Time archive - including the Essential 10, the Top 10 programmes from each genre, as well as each genre in full.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/artic...

Culture archive programmes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01drwny
Example:
Proust: In Our Time

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00548wx

Or
The History Archive
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01dh...
The Dreyfus Affair
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n1l95


Podcasts
"Culture: From Abelard and Heloise to Yeats and Mysticism"
Download episodes from the In Our Time "Culture" Archive:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/... (current 10)

Look for: "Show all episodes (123)"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/...
Example:
Proust (Thurs 10 April 03):
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/r...

Look for others:

John Ruskin
-Thu, 31 Mar 05
The Arabian Nights
-Thu, 18 Oct 07
Wagner
-Thu, 20 Jun 02
Oscar Wilde
-Thu, 6 Dec 01

Similar:
In Our Time Archive: Philosophy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/...
Schopenhauer
Thu, 29 Oct 09
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/r...


*BBC Radio 4 In Our Time "Downloads"
Every episode of In Our Time - available to download to listen to when & where you want.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/artic...

[Dave]

More great links Marcelita. Thanks! I have started my own modest little Pinterest Board on "In Search of Lost Time". I don't pin everything I come across. When I do search for pins most often I'm lead to your boards. Recently, there was a reference to something smelling like Vetiver. I looked it up and ordered a small bottle of Vetiver Oil. It smells musty, like raw pottery to me.

[Jonathan]

Marcelita wrote: "Another present? Au contraire...some would considered this a distracting drug. ;)

Because Proust read voraciously, he reminds me of a intellectual-hoarder...filling his novel with unknown referenc..."

Thanks for the links Marcelita, they'll keep me busy.

Good old Melvyn Bragg. He's a bit of a national institution.

[Dave]

I listened to the BBC 4 program Proust: In Our Time - quite interesting.

[Dave]

Browsing around on the web I came across TVTropes.org a site like wikipedia that is a treasure trove of various techniques and details used in TV, Movies, literature etc. Makes fascinating browsing. Of course the first thing I searched for was Proust (309 mentions) The link to the basic Proust page is

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php...

[Dave]

A fun article I found from The Telegraph that headlines our Hero

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...

[Dave]

Another link, this time from a blog. I found these articles searching the web to see if Hemingway read Proust. This is hilarious!

http://willbuckingham.com/short-and-m...

[Dave]

And here is my answer on the Hemingway question. The Internet is almost as good as Marcelita in answering Proustian questions!

http://marcelandbill.wordpress.com/20...

[Jonathan]

Great links Dave. re long sentences, I find that at work some people only ever seem to read the first few words of an email; is this the Twitter influence?

One benefit of reading Proust is that it has helped me get back to using longer sentences. I was told by people, especially at Uni where I admittedly did a science degree, to shorten my sentences - but it doesn't always seem natural.

It's amusing to think of Hemingway reading Proust and vice versa.

[Dave]

I relate to your work experience Jonathan. I was a technical writer for the government for 14 years. My natural style is several long sentences punctuated with a short sentence for emphasis. People squawked about sentence length when I sent drafts around for review. I considered their comments but mostly kept the style as it was.

As for people not reading emails, I relate to that as well. I was seeing that back in the 90's before Twitter existed. Back then everyone wanted to receive information through PowerPoint briefing. They would daydream through the brief and then ask for a copy of the Powerpoint slides to take back and squirrel away in their desk.

I'm a dinosaur, I don't text, tweet or call. I communicate via email that I draft, edit, and spellcheck.

[Jonathan]

Dave wrote: "I relate to your work experience Jonathan. I was a technical writer for the government for 14 years. My natural style is several long sentences punctuated with a short sentence for emphasis. People..."

It can be exasperating...but quite funny as well at times. It all stems from an inability to pay attention to anything. IMO The main causes are open-plan offices and the rise of the internet. I notice it with myself as well which is why it's nice to do something, like reading Proust, that forces one to pay attention.

[Dave]

Following through on Will Buckingham's Blog I linked yesterday, now I am reading a book of essays he referenced by Ursala K Le Guin titled "the wave in the mind Talks and Essays on the Writer, the Reader and the Imagination". In an essay titled "The Writer and the Character" I was impressed with the following quote in which Le Guin talks about Charles Dickens' relationship with David Copperfield to illustrate a point. I have often thought about David Copperfield when I have struggled to understand Proust's use of a First Person Narrator.

"Another way to come at this matter: In so far as the author’s point of view exactly coincides with that of a character, the story isn’t fiction. It’s either a disguised memoir or a fiction-coated sermon. I don’t like the word distancing. If I say there should be a distance between author and character it sounds as if I’m after the “objectivity” pretended to by naive scientists and sophisticated minimalists. I’m not. I’m all for subjectivity, the artist’s inalienable privilege. But there has to be a distance between the writer and the character. The naive reader often does not take this distance into account. Inexperienced readers think writers write only from experience. They believe that the writer believes what the characters believe. The idea of the unreliable narrator takes some getting used to. David Copperfield’s experiences and emotions are very close indeed to those of Charles Dickens, but David Copperfield isn’t Charles Dickens. However closely Dickens “identified with” his character, as we glibly and freudianly say, there was no confusion in Dickens’s mind as to who was who. The distance between them, the difference of point of view, is crucial. David fictionally lives what Charles factually experienced, and suffers what Charles suffered; but David doesn’t know what Charles knows. He can’t see his life from a distance, from a vantage point of time, thought, and feeling, as Charles can. Charles learned a great deal about himself, and so let us learn a great deal about ourselves, through taking David’s point of view, but if he had confused his point of view with David’s, he and we would have learned nothing. We’d never have got out of the blacking factory."

[Dave]

Marcelita, at some point I asked you about early criticism of Proust's work. I found the following interesting book, but will have to wait awhile to buy it. It contains 140 critical pieces on Proust's work up to 1931. Last work is Edmund Wilson's Axel's Castle

Marcel Proust (Critical Heritage)Sep 2, 2003 | Kindle eBook
by Leighton Hodson
Kindle Edition
from$19.78to rentKindle Edition
$38.39to buy
Auto-delivered wirelessly

[Marcelita]

Dave wrote: "Marcelita, at some point I asked you about early criticism of Proust's work. I found the following interesting book, but will have to wait awhile to buy it. It contains 140 critical pieces on Prous..."

Thank you, Dave. I will put it on my wish-list, which had dwindled so much that I ordered another bookcase yesterday--12 inches wide, but 7 feet tall. Yep, even in our NYC apartments, we think "vertically." ;)

From the "Père Lachaise" of the Internet (http://archive.org)

Edmund Wilson's "Axel's Castle"
Chapter V. Marcel Proust (page 132)
http://archive.org/stream/axelscastle...

[Marcelita]

I'm going to see Dylan at The Beacon tomorrow, so I was reviewing the set list. His first song should be "Things Have Changed."

"I hurt easy, I just don’t show it
You can hurt someone and not even know it
The next sixty seconds could be like an eternity
Gonna get low down, gonna fly high
All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie
I’m in love with a woman who don’t even appeal to me."
Bob Dylan
http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/thin...

Some "see" Proust in a few of his lyrics....some would say he "takes liberties."
http://ralphriver.blogspot.com/2006/0...

[Renato]

Oh wow, I don't see how that could be just a coincidence...!

[Ben]

I have been with this group since October this year (after I retired) and have been reading each week's discussions as I progressed with my own reading (mainly on Kindle but also intermittently in the 3-volume Penguin Modern Classics edition). I have not been contributing up to now as I was too far behind the group, but with the end of the year approaching, the end is approaching for me also (presently at 72% of the whole and about 113 pages into 'The Captive') and I see the posted comments creeping closer to 'real time'. I have found it a great experience to be reading with the group and to read their various and varying comments. (This adds the further complication that, in addition to the large cast of characters in ISOLT, I now have to try and form mental pictures of the regular contributors to the group's discussions!) Anyhow, while continuing my reading, I thought I would just announce my presence and to indicate my firm intention to continue my reading -- both by way of a re-read and other sources, eg Patrick Alexander, which is on order -- in the new year.

[Renato]

Hi, Ben. Good to know you're with us and also approaching to finding time again!

Some of us have already finished, but feel free to post your thoughts on the corresponding week discussion topics and we'll definitely be glad to discuss them with you.

So you're also planning on a re-read? I'm planning to begin mine in January - right now I'm reading the Carter bio and enjoying it a lot!

[Jonathan]

Hi Ben. Welcome to the group. Feel free to post comments in the threads. I'm glad to see you're enjoying it. Everyone seems to be contemplating re-reads. I intend to re-read parts of Vol 1 but not the whole work - not immediately anyway.

[Dave]

Welcome Ben! Thanks for for joining us. Looking forward to your comments. Lets us know if we can help in any way.

[Ben]

Thanks for the warm welcome to the group, Renato, Jonathan and Dave. Will keep you posted as to my progress in the appropriate weeks (currently at Week 09/13, but catching up).

[MMR.]

Welcome, Ben. Glad you came out of the woodwork!

I am low on the contribution scale also and sorry about that, but I do read along with the discussion and find it valuable.

Look forward to hearing more from you later.

[Marcelita]

Renato~
Patrice Louis is looking for a sticker from South America.
His latest post.
Show your love for Proust! Write to Patrice Louis-FREE sticker. http://t.co/VnGvX20shK ; https://t.co/Wpz2f4gCMj

[Renato]

Thanks, Marcelita! Just wrote Patrice to get my sticker! :-)

[Marcelita]

Renato wrote: "Thanks, Marcelita! Just wrote Patrice to get my sticker! :-)"
Wonderful!
If he has one from every continent, except one, then I will become an expert on Antarctica expeditions and find a Proust-pal.

Proust...loved all over the globe. ;)

[Renato]

He already wrote me back saying he mailed me the stickers this morning! :-)

[Marcelita]

Renato wrote: "He already wrote me back saying he mailed me the stickers this morning! :-)"

Isn't Patrice enthusiastic? He is one of those souls who has been diagnosed with "Proust-mania." I love watching him on French TV...giving out madeleines with his infectious energy.

You may want to read his blog, which I do almost every day. Not only for his charming sense of playfulness, but he also has educational posts, like these on the places Proust lived:

http://lefoudeproust.fr/2014/12/les-p...
http://lefoudeproust.fr/2014/12/les-p...
http://lefoudeproust.fr/2014/12/prous...

If you ever think about visiting to Illiers-Combray, let Patrice know. He writes posts on some pilgrims. (https://translate.google.com/translat...)

He is now posting, to the end of the year, the sticker photos people have sent back to him.

http://lefoudeproust.fr

P-translated: https://translate.google.com/translat...

E-translated: https://translate.google.com/translat...

Have you been thinking of your photo?

Is the Venezuelan Consulate General near you?
Rua General Fonseca Teles, 564
Jardim Paulista
01433-020 São Paulo

If they have a painting of Renaldo Hahn.....
;)
This is Lafayette:


I cut out my sticker(s)' but leave the backing on.
I use two-sided scotch tape, so I am able to re-use the sticker and then give it to another person.

(The Lafayette photo was taken by a member of our Boston Proust group. Oh---there was glass on top of the painting.)

[Jonathan]

It suddenly struck me this weekend that I'm missing not reading Proust...I really must start the Carter bio....

[Renato]

It's very good, Jonathan. I had a great time reading it!

[Ben]

Jonathan, I too am busy with the Carter bio at the moment (55% through). A bit too much detail in places, but overall superbly researched and presented.
I have also acquired the Carter update of Swann's Way and have subscribed to his online self-paced course:
http://www.proust-ink.com/course/inde...
But the cherry on top is the tour for Proust in Paris, to be led by Prof Carter from 11-17 May for which I have booked:
http://www.poshnosh.com/tbtb/paris-pr...
The tour includes visits to Combray and Balbec. Can't wait!

[Marcelita]

Ben wrote: "Jonathan, I too am busy with the Carter bio at the moment (55% through).
But the cherry on top is the tour for Proust in Paris, to be led by Prof Carter from 11-17 May for which I have booked:"

Pack light....save room for the books you will find along the Seine.

There are many bookstalls, so plot out your search; visit a few each day, as they will be within walking distance of your hotel on the Left. Bank.

I have found six NRF Proust books,

some wrapped in clear plastic.
Yes, I asked the dealers, but also pawed through every book. Seriously. ;)

[Ben]

I will certainly bear that in mind and save some space, thanks Marcelita.

[Barbara]

ah, les bouquinistes....

[Jonathan]

Ben wrote: "But the cherry on top is the tour for Proust in Paris, to be led by Prof Carter from 11-17 May for which I have booked:..."

Sounds like fun Ben! I hope you enjoy your trip.

And if you feel like posting any info, pics etc. here then feel free.

[Ben]

Will do, Jonathan. I can't think of any persons with whom I would rather share my experiences of my trip than with my fellow-Proustians of this group.

[Dwayne]

I certainly miss reading Proust, too! Are there any Reading Proust in 2015 groups we can eavesdrop on? : )

[Jonathan]

Dwayne wrote: "I certainly miss reading Proust, too! Are there any Reading Proust in 2015 groups we can eavesdrop on? : )"

Yes Dwayne, there's at least one 2015 group - see here. Some of us have already joined.

[Ben]

Dwayne wrote: "I certainly miss reading Proust, too! Are there any Reading Proust in 2015 groups we can eavesdrop on? : )"

Sure Dwayne. Try
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...