The Humour Club discussion
The Complaint Department
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Worst comments by friends on you being a writer
Not a comment but once I did say (when asked) I wrote stuff, and, to the follow-up, that it was fantasy and got a look as if I'd said "Actually, I'm writing an erotic novel about intercourse with garden gnomes."I didn't say anything, of course (I'm British), but I did wonder about pointing out that things like Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and Game of Thrones aren't exactly unpopular.
*sighs*
Comments like 'what a lovely little hobby' and 'how exciting, that must be very therapeutic' drive me slightly mad! Even after getting a publishing deal, a certain family member (I'll mention no names) still refers to it as a 'fun little pastime'. Ha ha! (It is pretty fun, to be fair to them...)
Lucy wrote: "Comments like 'what a lovely little hobby' and 'how exciting, that must be very therapeutic' drive me slightly mad! Even after getting a publishing deal, a certain family member (I'll mention no ..."
My experience is that close friends and family are the least supportive. I don't know why that is. Could they actually be assholes?
The reaction of other writers can sometimes be weird also. When I had something published a few years ago several of them said, "Indie publishing is the only way to go. You have sold out to a publisher. I would never do that." What???
And that is why I write. Life is a hard and a super bitch. If I don't see the humor in it, I will go mad.
Mod
Even after getting a publishing deal, a certain family member (I'l..."
Have to conclude that you need to trade in your family and friends. My family is very supportive, and my closest friends are, too (as are some more distant friends, though there are a fair pile of "friends" who just ignore the whole thing). My middle brother is especially helpful--he talks about my books on Facebook, etc. Not sure about the reviews--he does state up front that the author is his little sister, which is good, but probably discounts the review. Or not. Brothers can be a tough audience :)
Rebecca wrote: "Brena wrote: "Lucy wrote: "Comments like 'what a lovely little hobby' and 'how exciting, that must be very therapeutic' drive me slightly mad! Even after getting a publishing deal, a certain fami..."
You are so right. I do need to trade in my family and friends.
Ha - trading in family and friends, tee hee! One say, just maybe, they'll all recognise that writing can sometimes be a (wait for it...) career!
Worst comments.? Well, my (now-EX) mother-in-law asked "When are you going to stop this stupid writing thing and get a real job?" Being an obnoxious, stubborn person, that was the point at which I decided that I'd rather starve than give up on writing. So I suppose she did me a favor...
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Actually, Joel, I'd (tentatively) say my kids are RISING in value as they age, not depreciating like a standard car. They can change their own tires (aka. shoes), wash and wax themselves, and they now upgrade their own upholstery, using their own money. Sadly, some of them consistently show up filled with gas. Which would be more admirable in an actual car, I realize.
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The problem with selling children is not the individual's value per se, it's an industry-wide problem. Of late, slave trader is not as respected a profession as it once was.
A middle-class woman writer from India is a rare species. The worst comment I got from a friend was, "Writing? Thats for people with too much money." It may have been practical but was still hurtful. Other comments from people who don't understand that writing is a religion in itself vary from, "Is this a revenge trip?" to "Who are you trying to emulate" to "I am proud of you". The last one a validation that I still have a few good friends left in spite of 'what I am turning into'.
Sowmya wrote: "A middle-class woman writer from India is a rare species. The worst comment I got from a friend was, "Writing? Thats for people with too much money." It may have been practical but was still hurtfu..."We all express out creativity in different ways. People will look at a painting or listen to someone play the guitar, but reading what someone has written takes more effort. It is frustrating trying to be taken seriously. I am proud of you, and I don't even know you. Keep at it!
Brena wrote: "Sowmya wrote: "A middle-class woman writer from India is a rare species. The worst comment I got from a friend was, "Writing? Thats for people with too much money." It may have been practical but w..."
Thanks Brena! Made my day.
Thanks Brena! Made my day.
Jay wrote: "Brenda wrote: "...I'd (tentatively) say my kids are RISING in value as they age, not depreciating like a standard car ..."The problem with selling children is not the individual's value per se, i..."
I've also noticed that every time I sell one of mine, the new owners return the damned thing before the refund period runs out.
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Joel wrote: "Serves you right for offering a warranty."As my kids would say, "I know, right??" I figured I was safe, because so few people keep receipts and actually pay attention to when warranties expire. Turns out they're WAY more cautious when it comes to purchasing minors.
Brena wrote: "Ouch!!! People who make negative comments in reviews are assholes. They should just shut the f*ck up if they can't be encouraging."Not entirely true, a friend of mine told me in the pub that she couldn't finish the first chapter of a book I'd asked her to read through for me as the opening was so f*cking boring.
She was right, I rewrote it, it is better now and has done tolerably well as a result.
Everyone else I had test reading it for me was really nice and encouraging about it (including a bunch of professionals) - the wankers. :)
Dave, that's hilarious - that friend of yours may have saved your book! It's so much better when people tell you that something is bad BEFORE it's published, eh?
Brenda wrote: "Dave, that's hilarious - that friend of yours may have saved your book! It's so much better when people tell you that something is bad BEFORE it's published, eh?"You're not wrong. I must admit I sulked for a week or two, convinced she was wrong, then had a quick reread and had to concede the point.
Chopped 10000 words away and rewrote 5 chapters as a result.
Mod
What has helped me is to note what confuses my readers. I wrote a story set in San Francisco and discovered that a lot of my reference points were lost on people who have never been there and didn't speak the language of SF.I also have found that when I quote Feilding Mellish, Zaphod Beeblebrox, or Ignatius P. Reilly I have lost my audience. I now try to keep my obscure references to a minimum.
I still think though that you have to take into consideration what type of books your friends read. A person who loved Bridges of Madison County will not be reading my books. A person who reads a lot of self-help books will hate my writing and probably hate me as well...and rightly so.
Mod
Frankly, I don't mind obscure references, within limits. It's no trouble to google nearly anything these days, and it's an opportunity for me to learn** something new. Then again, you can always add a footnote to guide those lacking familiarity. Something like:
**For Millennials: learn (also: learning) verb - the acquisition of knowledge or skills through experience, study, or by being taught.
Dave wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Dave, that's hilarious - that friend of yours may have saved your book! It's so much better when people tell you that something is bad BEFORE it's published, eh?"You're not wrong. ..."
Sulking is an important part of editing process for me. So is gin, but that's a different story.
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That's not a different story! Women and gin is an old, old, OLD story. Where do you think children come from???
It wasn't from a friend. It was from a lawyer with whom I was interviewing for a job during law school. I had made the mistake of taking these law firms at their word. Their brochures all say they want to hire people with interests, hobbies, and rich lives outside of work.
No, they don't.
In the rich lives section at the bottom of my resume, I had mentioned a couple of poetry prizes I had won while in college at UC Berkeley. The interviewing lawyer, already hot and uncomfortable in the mildewy room in the transient hotel our law school booked for interviews, scanned my resume, got to the rich lives part, and sneered, "Poetry, huh? You know legal writing's different, right? How are you going to handle that?"
By disagreeing.
I said that the task of any writer, legal or otherwise, is to take or create a set of circumstances, render them convincingly, and leave the reader persuaded of something or feeling an emotion that they perhaps had not initially been inclined towards. I noted that it was common for old works such as "Paradise Lost," to use "The Argument" as section headings with an opening statement of what the writer intended to convey. So, while legal writing, like any other writing, might have certain formal conventions to be adhered to, it really isn't different from poetry.
The interviewer sweated some more and looked my resume up and down. "Naah," he concluded in what I hope for his clients' sake was uncharacteristically weak rebuttal, "it's different."
I didn't get that job.
Mod
You have my sympathies, Steven. On the other hand, it sounds like you dodged a bullet on that one. It's unlikely that you would have enjoyed working for such an astringent personality.
Jay wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Sulking is an important part of editing process for me. So is gin, but that's a different story."That's not a different story! Women and gin is an old, old, OLD story. Where do you..."
I've been blaming wine and poor judgement, but I think you could be onto something there...
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That seems about right. The initial reaction is always to kick and scream a bit. Then you can get over it and take a closer look at the advice.
Steven wrote: "It wasn't from a friend. It was from a lawyer with whom I was interviewing for a job during law school. I had made the mistake of taking these law firms at their word. Their brochures all say the..."
Well I was impressed by your response anyway. The job probably would have sucked anyway.
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Joel wrote: "I just had someone ask me what my last book was about, six months after I gave them a copy."That burns.
I sent my cousin a copy of Drop Cloth, and the cover image confused her. Barbie with her head in a vise sends a clear message in my mind. My cousin reads everything I send her out of curiosity. I adore curious people.
I sent my sister Death and Dawn, and she said she liked it. I sent her the sequel 4 months ago, and she still hasn't read it. Writing is easier than finding a reader.
My brother wrote a book which is getting published soon but my only two comments were to change my name (and my sisters) to an alias and maybe hint to mom the story she shared with him is racist and he may want to change it.But he did ask me for my feedback, so if he doesn't like it I guess he shouldn't have asked.
I get really cheesed off when people make some kind of "so your not making a living/money then-why bother" annoying comment. One day I am going to walk into an art class and/or golf/tennis club (where people do what they love and dont make a living from it). And I am going to shout "so you dont make any frigging money then? why bother?"
Kerrie wrote: "I get really cheesed off when people make some kind of "so your not making a living/money then-why bother" annoying comment. One day I am going to walk into an art class and/or golf/tennis club (w..."
People who say that are rude and intentionally insulting.
Unfortunately with self-publishing there is a plethora of really crappy writing out there, and that makes everyone look bad.
Money has always been the measure of success, the difference between being an amateur and a professional. I am too old too care, but I have learned that if someone wants credibility in the writing world, they need to have a writing job in the beginning. I would have gone for a television writing team or a column in a newspaper. I could have done a more interesting internship in college.
If money is not necessary, you can spend your time however you please, and it is no one's business.
Mod
If he asked for feedback, then feedback is what he should get. That's being supportive, even if the feedback is critical. (IMO, if you don't tell a writer about the flaws you see when you are asked to critique or beta-read, that's really unkind, since you may be sure other readers will notice. It does us no good if our editors just smile and say it's wonderful, like your 1st grade teacher).
From friends? Silence. Jealous, jealous, jealous silence.From my mother? Sneering.
From a stranger? Years ago during law school, I was at a job interview. Back then, and perhaps still today, the firms pretended they cared about your interests and non-legal achievements. So, I included my theatrical experience, my book reviews, and the poetry prizes I won in college on my resume. (I won 75 bucks. Why else write poetry?)
The interview was in a mildewy, unairconditioned room in a rundown hotel in a bad part of town. (Thanks, alma mater.) The interviewing attorney and I sat across from each other and sweated. He looked at my resume, got to the end of it, looked up, sneered, and said, "Poetry, huh."
"Yup."
"Pretty different from legal writing?" he accused.
"Maybe in its more experimental avant garde forms, but generally no. At the end of the day, as with a legal brief, you're trying to persuade readers to grasp ideas and feel emotions that perhaps they were not initially receptive to when they sat down to the work. In fact," I continued to persuade, "Seventeenth Century works like Paradise Lost often had section headings entitled 'The Argument,' which set out what was to come, much as the headings of a legal brief do."
He looked at me. He looked at my resume. He sweated.
"Naah," he concluded, "it's different."
I work for myself.
I'm getting old. I scrolled up and realized I told the interview story two years ago. It's still true, though.The bits about my friends and my mother are new. New here. Not new to me.
Mod
The bits about my friends and my mother are new. New here. Not new to me."
As Norman Bates said in Psycho: A boy's best friend is his mother.
I had two rows of grapevines covered in tiny hard grapes that were waiting to grow and ripen. My son was 5 and brought in a large grocery bag and said, “I picked all the grapes for you. Now you don’t have to wait to pick them.” I hugged him and said, “That is so nice. Thank you so much.”That sums up my entire relationship I have with my son.
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You are a good mom. I would have felt compelled to explain about letting them ripen. And that's at best.
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The bits about my friends and my mother are new. New here. Not new to me."
That's okay. We're also getting old, so we've forgotten the story.
I repeat stories. I appreciate it when others don't remember the first time I told it. I think.Friends let friends repeat themselves, but it can go too far. I have a system with a friend. If one of us is repeating a story, the other one says, "That is super interesting."
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Friends let friends repeat themselves, but it can go too far. I have a system with a friend. If one ..."
Nice!
Said with a big, indulgent smile and all the saccharine passive aggressive tone of a Dickens character:"Well, that sounds like a glorious waste of time."
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"Well, that sounds like a glorious waste of time.""
Well, in my case that may be an accurate assessment, at least from a financial perspective. But it IS glorious, and I love it, so there's really nothing to be done about it.
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"Well, that sounds like a glorious waste of time.""
I always have to fight the urge to cut them off at the knees. For example:
"Well, that sounds like a glorious waste of time."
"Much like asking you for a literary opinion."
However, I learned long ago that such barbs should only be used with good friends who dish equally well.
I can't imagine what that woman was thinking, but I have seen authors who are using really old photos of themselves on their book covers. (Like using old photos on dating sites?) Anyone who does that might as well have a kick-me sign on their back.
Stephan wrote: "Brena wrote: "I can't imagine what that woman was thinking, but I have seen authors who are using really old photos of themselves on their book covers. (Like using old photos on dating sites?) Anyo..."Most things seem absurd to me. WASPs have a code very much like the Law of Jante. It becomes part of your DNA and makes it very difficult for me to do self-promotion.
There is a generational shock generated by my nihilistic style of writing. In spite of the popularity of self-help books, the rainbows and lollipops cult is fading away.
Qu'est-ce que 'oldish'???"
People who grew up and still live in a world where the F word has only one meaning.
I have noticed old people who read stories in the New Yorker are comfortable with the F word.
I said oldish because people hate the word old more than the F word.