Let the Dead Lie -- Book Discussion

[ConnorD]

Discussion thread for Malla Nunn's Let The Dead Lie

[Beverly]

I have requested the book from my library

[Dominique]

I am getting the Ebook.

[ConnorD]

Has anyone started reading this book? The ebook is not available here, Need to order print copy - will take couple of weeks

Does anyone object to us changing to one of the other books ...
A beautiful place to die, OR
Let the Dead Lie?

This will help with availability as these are available in ebook format

[Dominique]

Connor, good idea. I am actually having trouble getting the Ebook as the purchase offer is restricted to the US.. "A beautiful place to die" would be my next choice.

[ConnorD]

Dominique wrote: "Connor, good idea. I am actually having trouble getting the Ebook as the purchase offer is restricted to the US.. "A beautiful place to die" would be my next choice."

I would concur with "A beautiful place to die", difficult with these purchase restrictions on ebook formats in the continent.

[Beverly]

ConnorD wrote: "Dominique wrote: "Connor, good idea. I am actually having trouble getting the Ebook as the purchase offer is restricted to the US.. "A beautiful place to die" would be my next choice."

I would con..."

I do not mind if the book gets changed. I have read both books and enjoyed them both - but do think that "Let the Dead Lie" is a slightly stronger book with a couple of more discussion points. But as I said either one is a good choice.

[Dominique]

I Changed my mind ! - " Let the Dead Lie" . One must always follow recommendation. Thanks Beverly ;)

[ConnorD]

Thank you Dominique and Beverly - "Let the Dead Lie" it is!

[Dominique]

So let's start!

Emmanuel is a transparent man who makes all efforts to keep his mind empty and his body overwhelmed by exhaustion.
Nunn maintains a very distant description of Emmanuel, but she is more generous in coloring the setting in black and white...and red, giving graphic but 'unshocking' descriptions of buildings, rooms and dead bodies...

That's the scenery I am getting, driving through the three first chapters.

What's your scenery?

[ConnorD]

Sure, describing Durban harbour / docks quite specifically and giving it colour.
And from seemingly being in charge of the docks in the first chapter, the second chapter sees him losing that control ... bag over the head
Now on fourth chapter and the description of Emmanuel becomes less distant

[Beverly]

I read this book a little while ago and since I am not a re-reader of books I have read - I am hoping your discussion will spark so chords of memory.

[ConnorD]

Beverly wrote: "I read this book a little while ago and since I am not a re-reader of books I have read - I am hoping your discussion will spark so chords of memory."

A young boy, Jolly Marks is found murdered on the Durban docks and Detective Emmanuel Cooper finds himself a prime suspect in the case. He needs to find the real killer, and in doing so unravels much

Last night I turned the last page of the book and not sure how I feel about it. I think mainly because I just find it difficult to relate to the book's characters and landscape, even though I live in this country. I need to think about this some more and figure out why this is. Will let you know my thoughts

I wonder if other South Africans in the club have read the book and if they share a similar feeling about the book

[Dominique]

Connor I'm shocked. You finished the book? What am I supposed to do now!! Should the discussion close? I need two more days. Please don't spoilt it :(

[Dominique]

I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in depth. The Author describes the setting compulsively, but again remains so superficial and mysterious about the protagonist and others. I wonder why...
This makes the book plain and tepid.

Connor why are you making us read this? Yes I know we picked the title but why this Author?

Another event that strikes me is when Emmanuel says he missed the ease and power that came with being a white man.
That's not new of course, for so many of my sisters are painting their skin "colorless"..

Emmanuel's statement moves me, because I am trying to figure out where the "Afro Pride" comes from, for it is so obvious that being "white" is easier.. Are we proud because of some kind of resignation to fate? Or is this sense of value real, genuine and deeply-felt?

[Beverly]

Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in depth. The Author describes the setting compulsiv..."

Not sure if this will answer your questions but here is a link to an article where Malla Nunn states what she writes and why.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/malla-n...

[ConnorD]

Dominique wrote: "Connor I'm shocked. You finished the book? What am I supposed to do now!! Should the discussion close? I need two more days. Please don't spoilt it :("

Dominique apologies. Yes I read the book and promise not to do spoilers - what I wrote is the "blurb" at the back of the book, in response to Beverly's point about being reminded what the book is about.

[ConnorD]

Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in depth. The Author describes the setting compulsiv..."

Members nominate books from different regions and this one received the most votes. Members are free to nominate any books by authors of African descent

I agree the story was very easy to follow - perhaps that's why I read it in a few days - I enjoyed the pace and the flow

On the ease of being white - also believed that was a poignant reflection. It seems he was first classified white and then reclassified "coloured" and later again "white". The detective having lived in both worlds could perhaps best reflect on the "ease of white"

I have always wondered whether the difficulty of being black / African is too much for an individual to carry on their own. As an individual you up against a whole system that does not validate/value what you are naturally.

Perhaps then, in a response to your question about Afro Pride -- solidarity with or sense of belonging could be one of the contributing factors?

[ConnorD]

Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in depth. The Author describes the..."

Thanks for sharing this link with us Beverly - very interesting. After reading that article I thought that the book was meant for an international audience - not too familiar with cultural practices and language.

I have also read her bio and it seems she was 8 years when her family left for Australia. It could be very difficult to write a book based in a country that you not really familiar with. That could also account for the lack of depth that Dominque refers to.

The terminology and language she uses to describe African people was quite strange. Example, even though the constable has a name, he was often referred to as the "Zulu constable" - There is also a word "kyaha" used often - perhaps a misspelling for "ekhaya" meaning "at home".

I really struggled to identify with the setting and particularly certain dialogues that use Zulu terms.

However, the story line re solving a murder case though was quite interesting. I wanted to know more - what really happened? Who was responsible? And why?

[Zoli]

ConnorD wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in depth. The Auth..."

I was not going to read this book, but you have roused my curiosity, will do over this long weekend

[Dominique]

Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in depth. The Author describes the..."

Hey Beverly! Thanks for sharing this link with us. I am glad I was not mistaking judging her a bit ''shallow'', and I am happy to find out that I am actually a bit biased against African literature, which I thought 'ought to be' educational and historical, rather than fun, unrealistic and fictional.

This thought leads to the second 'epiphany' I am having while reading this book:

As a story set in South Africa, my first storyline expectation would be 'Apartheid'. I have never realised until now that for many African-non-South_Africans like me, the country South Africa would only be associated with Apartheid and Nelson Mandela. As funny as it might sound, I never really imagined that any other 'life' could be ongoing during Nelson Mandela's time. I had the feeling that his life was the most important one. I surprised myself wondering where Mandela was, when Emmanuel was doing all these investigations!

This is simply ignorance and sickness.

I am thinking of asking Connor to find a way to set a distinct discussion group only for books by South African Authors. That would expand the South African's rainbow to its 7 colours/diversities instead of being stuck (stereotyped) to its 2 colours of blood and Apartheid.

I don't know if any other African-non-South_Africans here are feeling like I am...

[Dominique]

Zoli wrote: "ConnorD wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in..."

Zoli, I think you should definitely read it, and join us here ;)

[Zoli]

Dominique wrote: "Zoli wrote: "ConnorD wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those chara..."

Dominique, I managed to read more than half of the book over this long weekend and my first impressions:

-This is a very different book for me to read and I welcome it at this time - I needed something different to my normal reading lists
-I am perhaps a little surprised that a black woman would write a story about a White Detective .. that is different

I do not think that you would be wrong to associate South Africa with apartheid or the fight against it. Since the 1600s, separate development and segregation on race lines have been the pillars on which the country has been built. It would be difficult to write any story that does not take this into account, because characters I guess would be significantly defined by their experiences in this system that still permeates the society today

I am not sure about having a separate link for South African books hey! It is one country in a region, and Africans make up eighty percent of the population

This book is very different in the sense that it is written by someone from the diaspora that has not really lived in the country, so the perspective and context reflected is different, understandably so, I guess

[Zoli]

ConnorD wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even easier as those characters lack in depth. The Auth..."

I picked up on similar points on descriptions ConnorD. I was also not sure about that word kyaha, perhaps she meant to state "khaya"

Is it possible for an author to situate a book in a country they not lived in? I do not know and never have thought about this before your comment. I will give it some thought

[Beverly]

Interesting discussion.

Here is another reason why she wrote the book:
Q. How did you come to write A Beautiful Place to Die?
A. I wanted to explore, through crime fiction, the crippling racial segregation laws that forced my parents out of Southern Africa. Any society that elevates a "pure" minority to the pinnacle has a dark underbelly. My book explores the unlit spaces in 1950's South African society.

[Beverly]

I do not think that it is all the unusual to write about country that someone left at an early age.
As she is writing about an "historical" period - the 1950s and the racial laws was one of the reasons causing her parents to migrate - learning their stories has probably influenced her writing. It seems like she "visits" Africa often enough.

I am also glad for discussions for those more familiar with a culture than me to speak to what is done well and where there may be some discrepancies.

The detailed description of the landscape probably comes from her film experience.

I like seeing more "genre" fiction by Diaspora writers. My "genre" fiction I mean mystery, speculative fiction and romance. While there is usually some degree of politics in these books - the degree is usually less so than other usually, literary books to be more informative and educational for the reader. The genre books usually have a different agenda and are usually geared for a more casual read.

Depending on my mood I like to mix up what I am reading, but my preferred reading is literary fiction and historical fiction.

If I remember correctly one of the continuing issues in this series is about Emmanuel's race.
Race is often a complex as the definitions is usually a political/social/economic construct defined by those in power, can change over time, and can change depending as you move from country to country.

[Dominique]

Zoli wrote: "Dominique wrote: "Zoli wrote: "ConnorD wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... It is even eas..."

Thanks Zoli for your insights. Apparently we all agreed here that this book has something a bit 'foreign' despite the local tone it claims.
I understand that many books about SA would be based on the Apartheid time.. I am just curious to know how one book would substantially differ from another, despite the plot based around discriminations. do you have any recommendations?

[Diane]

I read this book too and found it to be a less grounded than the other books written by South Africans - black or white.

There are two things to consider - (1)leaving very early from your country of birth makes it more difficult to catch nuances, pick up on colloqualisms that dont feel out of place for people who live in the country, etc. - But I can imagine that this book based in South Africa could be a way for the author to try to connect to her roots

(2) Agree with Beverly that the discussion about race is complex and SA being such a racially divided, influencing and influenced society, a book like this that does not really deal with race with this understanding can make it feel less authentic.

Swaziland is where the author is from originally before the family moved to Australia, and in Swaziland it was not illegal to marry across different race lines at the time. It was when you travelled to South Africa that problems arose.

ConnorD, In South Africa as you'd know, Malla would be classified 'coloured' and therefore the understanding of the African dynamic seems less convincing - perhaps that's why too, the key characters are not African

Beverly I also really appreciate your point about more genre writers coming from the continent and diaspora and hope to see more of these too

[Diane]

Dominique wrote: "Zoli wrote: "Dominique wrote: "Zoli wrote: "ConnorD wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Dominique wrote: "I find this story very easy to follow through, as there seems to be a limited number of characters... I..."

Dominique I think the book will reflect mainly the racial group of the author. The story backdrop and those things that determine how the characters develop in the story line is what will differentiate one book from another.

Endings and Beginnings by Redi Tlabi for example is written by an African women who is a journalist - it is a human story and one about love that takes place in a township. The characters are African and whether they travel to Lesotho, the story is very african and reflects the realities of the time

Then there is a book written by Zakes Mda "Sculptors of Mapungubwe" that occurs before colonialism and apartheid. When we mined our gold .. this will give you an indication of life before apartheid when Southern African traded with CHina and Persia and when they owned the land.

The current MAY read of this book club "Coconut" is a book that deals with post apartheid South Africa - from the perspective of young South Africans - it will give you an idea of what young South Africans, not born under apartheid are experiencing in the transition, but ultimately still affected by it.

Hope this helps