Jane Austen discussion
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Just randomly curious.. Was Mr Darcy a virgin?
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Ceri wrote: "Louise Sparrow wrote: "...‘being lost to everything’ refers, as far as I can tell, to her sense of honour, decency and what is due to her family, as well perhaps as any future love or happiness… sh..."I completely agree.
Men usually had had sexual experiences before marriage, these were women of the night or opera singers or dances of the stage. Maybe Mr Darcy's father gave him a prostitute? But... women were expected to be virgins. From the Book Among the Janeites, it could be possible for the shy Mr Darcy who couldn't relate well with people to be a virgin, there is a theory that he had a version of "rainman" condition. Read the book and see for yourself,
That's an interesting theory. Personally, I don't buy that he had autism or even that he was particularly shy, he was perfectly able to speak to people when he made an effort, for example when the Gardiners went to Pemberley, and when Colonel Fitzwilliam laughs at him for being quiet at Rosings, which shows that he is different elsewhere. I think sometimes we would like to think he's shy just to think better of his behaviour but the truth is he was proud and snobby. The book is called 'Pride & Prejudice' which gives a lead on how we're supposed to view their behaviour and while Elizabeth exhibits both faults I think most people would say that Darcy is more proud and Elizabeth more prejudiced.
Ceri wrote: "That's an interesting theory. Personally, I don't buy that he had autism or even that he was particularly shy, he was perfectly able to speak to people when he made an effort, for example when the ..."Yes! Yes! Yes! He was not shy, or at least there is no indication in P&P that he was that. He spoke when he could be bothered, and he was not in the least shy about speaking to Elizabeth once he decided she was worthy of his attention. He didn't hesitate to ask for her hand, either. He was proud and snobby as you said. And autistic?!? I can't see that at all - that seems even less likely than shyness. As Ceri said - he could make himself agreeable when he put his mind to it, which an autistic person would not be able to do, or at least not with such ease!
Ceri wrote: "That's an interesting theory. Personally, I don't buy that he had autism or even that he was particularly shy, he was perfectly able to speak to people when he made an effort, for example when the ..."I agree. Darcy is NOT shy. He is DARCY! He insists on deference from those he considers inferior, that is, until Elizabeth Bennet gets through with him. The other thing often over-looked because of dramatizations *cough Colin Firth cough* is that while Darcy could be brooding, he did smile at Elizabeth a few times, both during her stay at Netherfield, and early on in their dance at the Netherfield ball. Seeing his smiling portrait at Pemberley is not the first time Lizzy sees him smiling. It might be a wider, more loving smile, or simply more relaxed assuming the painting was done at Pemberley.
Given what little JA actually says about Darcy's background, we have nothing to go on as to his virginity, but we do know he disapproved of Wickham's behavior. But just because Wickham was one extreme should not imply that Darcy was the other (a virgin). It does signify that Darcy held himself to a higher behavioral standard than to be a thorough-going rake, but he might certainly have had the same "sex ed" as other noble young gentlemen of respected families.
Linda - this is what I would have said if I was more articulate with my previous post - lol.I see Darcy as 'one of the guys' even as he sets himself up to a higher standard (which is why we all love him)!
Monique wrote: "Linda - this is what I would have said if I was more articulate with my previous post - lol.I see Darcy as 'one of the guys' even as he sets himself up to a higher standard (which is why we all lo..."
I agree Monique, I think Linda put it really well. Just because he looked down on rakes doesn't necessarily mean that he was a virgin himself, but he could have been, we just don't know.
He was incredibly shy and had such high moral standards but in those times gentleman especially wealthy ones it was a right of passage to tour Europe for the soul purpose of sowing wild oats before they had to start learning to run the estate. Also with a cousin like Col Fitzwilliam do you think her did not take him to a exclusive brothel
While many men went to a brothel at least once, or some other pro, sometimes forced by their dad (gagging here!!) I like to think the heroes are... swoon worthy and waiting.
No. He's 28 years old and has plenty of opportunity. Luckily he's wealthy enough that he's probably avoided syphilis.
What does oney have to do with Syphilis?
Mrs wrote: "money"You can pay to keep a single woman as a mistress rather than going to a prostitute. The less people involved less likely you get an sexually transmitted disease.
Linda wrote: "Ceri wrote: "That's an interesting theory. Personally, I don't buy that he had autism or even that he was particularly shy, he was perfectly able to speak to people when he made an effort, for exam..."Completely agree. I do not think Darcy made it to 28 years of age as a virgin. Remember his father lived until he was 23. So he very well may have had the traditional sex ed of that class of men. His father may have taken him to a brothel when he reached his majority (or earlier).
Darcy does hold himself to a higher standard, but that does not imply sainthood. I absolutely do not think he preyed upon his female servants or upon penniless girls. And he seemed to disapprove of men acting the part of the seducer/rake. I also think he might be repulsed by some of the brothels, unless his father took him to a very exclusive madame, who set him up with an upper class prostitute. I think Darcy would be the type to form an understanding with a nice widow. Having a kept mistress in town was hard to keep secret. An understanding with an independently wealthy widow who had no interest in getting married again, would have done nicely for a man like Darcy to occasionally allow him to sow his oats, shall we say.
Yes, that would work I think. Or keeping a specific mistress who would be exclusively for him, possibly a retired 'high-class' prostitute/courtesan. He would treat her courteously, considerately and generously, and she would understand her position in his life, and that once he married he would terminate his liaison with her.Whoever Darcy married, I can't see him as an adulterer, however socially acceptable that was at the time for a married man.
That would also rule out having any 'crim cons' with women of his own rank.
He'll be entirely faithful to Elizabeth, I'm sure.
Jane Austen
Books mentioned in this topic
The Real Jane Austen: A Life in Small Things (other topics)Bridget Jones's Diary and Bridget Jones: The Edge of Reason (other topics)
I completely agree, that is how I read it, and if you read the quote with a bit more context I think that adds weight to this view:
"But can you think that Lydia is so lost to everything but love of him as to consent to live with him on any other terms than marriage?"