Divergent
discussion
I really dislike Tris Prior??
message 51:
by
Raynebow
(new)
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rated it 5 stars
Apr 03, 2014 08:11AM
I loved her! Here's why. She was never perfect. She was flighty and sometime's just plain stupid. Like she didn't have enough sense to get things sometimes. but That's what makes her great, she tried to be brave and she WAS selfless. No she wasn't a perfect character, but if YOU were in a book and YOU were in her situation, would you like YOUR character, would anyone else? Your not perfect, you wouldn't act perfectly in that sitwashion, you might act worse. Why? Because your not perfect, you REAL. To me Tris was real, she had flaws and strengths.
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Good thing I didnt read the spoiler few I'm safe... :)
Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" The other characters were more interesting, and I wish they were the main character(s). For instance, Uriah would have..."Finally someone who agrees with me. Whoosh.
Sandra wrote: "You didn't understand me. I am aware that no one is selfless all the time - what I meant was that being selfless is a day-to-day thing; that sacrifice and selflessness are different. Yes, there is selflessness in sacrifice and sacrifice in selflessness, but they are different. The example I used was Johnny Cade and Dallas Winston; Johnny was selfless because he was in both small and large actions. Dallas did die for him, and that was selfless of him, but he was not selfless. That's what I'm trying to say."Ah, I understand. You have a very Luke 16:10 idea of selflessness. :) "He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much." Or in this case: "He who is selfless in a very little thing is selfless also in much; and he who is selfish in a very little thing is selfish also in much."
Btw, I wasn't disagreeing about Tris being selfish despite having moments of selflessness. I was actually very disgusted that she found it hard to do stuff like help an old woman cross the street (can't remember specifics). She wasn't shy or oblivious, so I don't understand that. I just thought your original reasoning on selflessness was a bit dubious. Thanks for clarifying. I mostly agree with your assessment, but for further clarity, I do not think that selflessness can exist without sacrifice. Taking your brother's mail to the post office when you were already going there to mail your own letter is kind, but not selfless because there is no sacrifice. Making time in your busy schedule to mail a letter for your brother when it is on the other side of town, that is a selfless act. It's placing others needs ahead of your own, which indicates sacrificing some of your own needs/wants. At the same time, it doesn't mean not valuing your own needs/wants (which would be very unhealthy), just that ultimately you place others before yourself.
Raynebow wrote: "I loved her! Here's why. She was never perfect. She was flighty and sometime's just plain stupid. Like she didn't have enough sense to get things sometimes. but That's what makes her great, she tri..."You can say that about anyone. When you dislike I character for doing something stupid or selfish, I could say "but her/his flaws make them real!" But that doesn't change the fact that you dislike that character/person. Tris was gusty, yes, but she was selfish, despite what the book says.
Elena wrote: "Goodreader wrote: "I like every character, Tris included. I don't like Eric or Jeanine though."i did like Eric Character find it sometimes conflicting in his actions but a good character. i disli..."
I liked every character except Tris and Molly ^.^
Eaton wrote: "Some people tell us to stop reading the books because we dislike Tris. I just hate hearing that because I love the book. I love the story and I'm still reading it. I know we all have different opi..."Don't be upset :) You can still read the books. And I'm confused - do you like her or not? And I agree with you (I'm not a fan of the books but I would dislike it if someone told me I couldn't like the books bc I don't like the main character.)
Ketaki wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" The other characters were more interesting, and I wish they were the main character(s). For instance, U..."*high fives u*
but yea, I've found quite a few people that don't like her so you're not alone haha
Emma wrote: "Sandra wrote: "You didn't understand me. I am aware that no one is selfless all the time - what I meant was that being selfless is a day-to-day thing; that sacrifice and selflessness are different...."Yes, I agree with you :) When I said "sacrifice" I meant if you were sacrificing your life, sorry for not clarifying! Like, just because you die for someone, it doesn't make you a selfless person because, like I said, it's a day-to-day thing, and everyone has that person they would die for. And yes, I just couldn't see how anyone could call her selfless when she couldn't even live by the Abnegation rules?
By the way, thanks for your comment(s)!
Goodreader wrote: ":)"By the way, who was your favourite character? I love the side characters to death (even though I'm not a fan of the book, the side characters really did something for me.)
Goodreader wrote: "I liked Will and Christina."Their relationship was A+ bc they were friends first :)
I disagree. In my opinion, Tris is waaaay better than Katniss. I never really cared about Katniss throughout THG series.
Ayesha wrote: "I disagree. In my opinion, Tris is waaaay better than Katniss. I never really cared about Katniss throughout THG series."I totally disagree. Katniss was better and Tris isn't comparable.
Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Elena wrote: "Here are my rambling toughts about this topic.-Firstly, no, she is NOT selfless. She's actually so selfish. I don't ..."
YES! ESPECIALLY WITH THE HUNGER GAMES! And I just read The Outsiders too:) Dally was my favorite:D
Katniss way better even tho she annoyed me in mockingjay I like her more...I thinks its cuz to me it didn't feel like she made herself special... ;)
Martin wrote: "Katniss way better even tho she annoyed me in mockingjay I like her more...I thinks its cuz to me it didn't feel like she made herself special... ;)"
I liked Katniss the most in Mockingjay. She seemed to be at her strongest.
Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Elena wrote: "Here are my rambling toughts about this topic.-Firstly, no, she is NOT selfless. She's actually so se..."
Ahhh!! And omg omg omg ISN'T THE OUTSIDERS JUST THE BEST THING EVER OMG.
Sandra wrote: "Eaton wrote: "Some people tell us to stop reading the books because we dislike Tris. I just hate hearing that because I love the book. I love the story and I'm still reading it. I know we all have..."Thanks, I don't like Tris but I do love the book. I like Tobias and Christina and I love the story. I just don't like spoilers specially when somebody tells the ending :(
Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Elena wrote: "Here are my rambling toughts about this topic.-Firstly, no, she is NOT selfle..."
IT WAS AWESSSSOOOOOOMMMEEEE! WHO WAS YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER?
Sandra wrote: "Emma wrote: "Sandra wrote: "You didn't understand me. I am aware that no one is selfless all the time - what I meant was that being selfless is a day-to-day thing; that sacrifice and selflessness a..."i know that i keep referring to this point but in the first chapter Tris says that she tried for 16 years to be selfless but it didn't work. everyone that has read the books knows that she is selfish she says it, admits it, that she is not selfless.
i think in no way anyone in this time anyone can live by the abnegation rules!!! you can say that you would help the lady with the stuff, give your seat, take the stairs, etc... so on but can you really commit to being TRULY a selfless person? as a day by day basis? all day not just an action a day?
you can say today i help a lady with here groceries but at nigth i ate pizza, soda, dessert and watch a movie or a TV show just for fun. and then i went running just because. LOL i know is a stupid example but really is silly to judge her for it.
And most importantly
(view spoiler)
Sandra wrote: "Martin wrote: "Katniss way better even tho she annoyed me in mockingjay I like her more...I thinks its cuz to me it didn't feel like she made herself special... ;)"
I liked Katniss the most i..."
Me to, especially at the end I thought that took some cajones regardless of the consequences
Elena wrote: "i really don't get how can you say that just because you die for someone it doesn't make you a selfless person. is the ultimate sacrifice and the ultimate act of love and selfless thing you can do, sacrifice for another life."Sacrificing your life for another person is a selfless act, absolutely. But Sandra is talking about being selfless as a personality trait. So let's say a fictional girl named Mary sleeps with her sister's boyfriend/husband. Most of us would consider that to be an act of selfishness. But does that make Mary inherently selfish? What if she had dedicated her life to feeding the homeless and spent all of her time volunteering at a homeless shelter? Does that one act of selfishness make her a selfish person? Or let's say Jack would rather spend his money to get drunk than buy food, shelter, or clothes for his kids. So his kids live in a barely inhabitable shack, go to bed hungry every night, and wear holey clothes that don't fit. Pretty selfish, right? But then one day Jack dies pushing his son out of the way of a speeding car. Does that one act of selflessness undo the years of selfishness? It's a very interesting question to think about.
Elena wrote: "i think in no way anyone in this time anyone can live by the abnegation rules!!! ... i help a lady with here groceries but at nigth i ate pizza, soda, dessert and watch a movie or a TV show just for fun. and then i went running just because. LOL i know is a stupid example but really is silly to judge her for it."
That's kind of the point. Abnegation took it too far. Their idea of selflessness was unhealthy and impossible to achieve. Being selfless doesn't mean denying yourself all pleasure or never wanting to look pretty, or any of the other messed up stuff they said. I don't think Tris was selfish because she cared about how she looked or wanted to eat yummy food. I also don't consider her selfish for shooting Will to save herself. But seeing another person in need and having the ability to help and just ignoring them because you don't feel like it? Like seeing a person on crutches struggling to open and walk through a door and just walking past when you could easily open the door for them? That's pretty selfish.
Sandra wrote: "Emma wrote: "Sandra wrote: "You didn't understand me. I am aware that no one is selfless all the time - what I meant was that being selfless is a day-to-day thing; that sacrifice and selflessness a..."I'm glad we can agree. :)
Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Cookies'n'cream wrote: "Elena wrote: "Here are my rambling toughts about this topic.-Firstly, no, sh..."
I loved all of them. But either Darry or Sodapop.
And well said Emma ^.^
Emma wrote: "Elena wrote: "i really don't get how can you say that just because you die for someone it doesn't make you a selfless person. is the ultimate sacrifice and the ultimate act of love and selfless thi..."i can agree totally with your comment because that's the thing im referring to you can not judge a person for a single act like i said even if that was the only selfless thing she did (she did a lot of selfless things ALOT) in the end she wasn't.
I was really pissed of at Tris in Insurgent. I love her, but in the second book she was all like "poor me!" kind of stuff. (She didn´t actually say it, but the book made it seem so). She was like a hurt puppy who couldn´t hold a gun and made stupid decitions that put at risk her liife for no reason. But i liked her character in the 1st and 3rd book. I totally respect others opinions, and I agree with some of them, but maybe not completely.
A wrote: "I was really pissed of at Tris in Insurgent. I love her, but in the second book she was all like "poor me!" kind of stuff. (She didn´t actually say it, but the book made it seem so). She was like ..."She was pretty annoying in Insurgent lol
I find it hard to admit, but I have to agree with you on that. She is way to selfish. I was reading Divergent for the first half with a weird look on my face and when I got to the end of the first book, I put it away because I couldn't take it anymore. Her thinking annoys me and she is so self centred. After a few months (probably six) I had this thought that I couldn't let books unfinished so I started reading again and I finished the book in a hour. I was not loving her as a character whatsoever but I had to give Insurgent a chance because of the fact that the movie was amazing and they made Tris likeable. But I should have know that the movie is way different than the book (as it comes to the character). I started reading Insurgent but stopped after 3 chapters. After her thoughts on page 15 and 27, I was sick of her character. I could not give her a objective change. I'm sorry. I've tried.
Mendie wrote: "I find it hard to admit, but I have to agree with you on that. She is way to selfish. I was reading Divergent for the first half with a weird look on my face and when I got to the end of the first ..."I agree! I haven't watched the film because I'm not a fan, but she was self-centered. Tris was annoying in Insurgent lol but I didn't continue it bc it got boring.
Christina wrote: "Tris wrote: "Well people, if you didn't like the MAIN CHARACTER of a series, then why read it?"For me, I like the other characters and I like the plot. Not everyone has to love the main character."
i didnt say LOVE! i SAID LIke!!!!!!!!!!
Dana wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" -Firstly, no, she is NOT selfless. She's actually so selfish. I don't see how anyone could call her s..."
Thank you! i love tris prior and so what? no ones perfect
Tris wrote: "Christina wrote: "Tris wrote: "Well people, if you didn't like the MAIN CHARACTER of a series, then why read it?"For me, I like the other characters and I like the plot. Not everyone has to love ..."
you don't have to like tris. and no one's perfect, but there's a difference between being a realistic character and straight up being dislikable.
Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" The other characters were more interesting, and I wish they were the main character(s). For instance, Uriah would have..."I really AGREE with you in this matter,100 and 1%. you really nailed it. some people says that tris is more human than katniss because she lived a sheltered life before she exchanged blows with a dauntless guy- not unlike Katniss whose badass archery skills is taught to her by her father since her childhood- fpr katniss stood up as the Parent and sole provider for her family after the mine explosion....while tris lived with complete parents and is so dumb not allowed to look even in the mirror because she came from a faction who call themeselves selfless. she's just another great publishing mistake next to bella swan and anastasia steele.
This comment is not meant to offend anyone. - Tris is WAY too perfect to be like able. She is portrayed to be smart, selfless, brave, etc. but she isn't, and she is the example of perfect. I don't want to read a book where the main character is flawless(everyone in the book definitely thinks so, except the bad guys) and I can't relate to her at all. Katniss, for example, is very like able, she tries to do her best, but she isn't perfect and even she makes mistakes.
-What's so selfless about her? She kills Will, almost let's her brother die...
-she is a bad role model
-she is just takes everything for granted
For example, in the first book, she tries to decide whether she should stick with the people who are with her when she is weak or the people who stick with her when she is strong too. I was thinking, BE GLAD THAT YOU HAVE FRIENDS AT ALL, YOU UNGRATEFUL BRAT
I also agree with what the rest of you posted about Tris' bad behavior.
Note that I love Veronica Roth, the Divergent series and Shailene Woodley, but I just hate Tris
;)
Dana wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" -Firstly, no, she is NOT selfless. She's actually so selfish. I don't see how anyone could call her s..."
I agree with you completely
Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" The other characters were more interesting, and I wish they were the main character(s). For instance, Uriah would have..."I agree with you for most of the stuff. She does seems selfish but so does Katniss. I think both of those characters are overrated. Katniss did most of her actions only to save herself. Yes, she volunteered for her sister and a bunch of other stuff. But both Tris and Katniss are hot-headed and they act before they think.
Many side characters in both divergent and the hunger games seemed better than the main ones.
+She cries and cries and cries and cries...urggg..
I didn't love Tris but I still loved the books for the plot and action and such. I think authors these days keep trying to make their characters strong and brave which sometimes makes them violent or unlikable. She reminded me of a Katniss
^very true, i personally think you don't have to add too much angst to make your character appear strong. There are many types of strength an author could use for her main character. Although I liked Katniss. She has every reason to go mad and be unstable.
I like Tris, she has her selfish moments but doesn’t most people and characters. But she has never intentionally wanted to hurt other people. As for the Al thing, it’s actually quite a common reaction to have those thoughts about and even anger towards people who commit suicide, even from the love ones, especially from love ones. I prefer that hard approach rather than to glamorise suicide.
And Will would have killed her, and she wouldn’t haven’t been able to stop the hundreds of people from dying and being killed. Tobias was her only real obstacle to her goal of saving people.
As for Caleb situation. Yes, Tris made mistakes but Caleb intentionally made the decision to hurt people for the greater good. Confused or not, Caleb was okay letting his own sister get tortured and letting many people. As far as I could see, he never truly struggled with this until after the great reveal when he was proved wrong. Even if in another universe Caleb was right to do what he did, the deaths didn’t seem to weigh heavy on his shoulders. Yet, Tris’s struggled with just one death (Will’s) on her consious, even though she had no choice so she could save people.
Tris would never be okay with Caleb being tortured. And being angry at someone is not the same as true torture. Tris’s anger at Caleb is small in comparison to what Caleb did. It was only when Caleb was proved wrong, that you saw guilt from him.
Also, everyone keeps comparing her to Katniss, but apart from the strong will and strength and that they both fall down and pick themselves up again, I think their personality are quite different. Tris is more approachable and makes friends far easier than Katniss, Tris doesn’t have that paranoia about people and trust issues that Katniss has.
Katniss at the beginning had to be steered and manipulated into doing what is good by Peeta, Gale, Prim and Haymitch, while Tris just stood up for what’s right in the first place.
Also, you’re being a hypocrite, you’re happy with Christina’s character but Christina couldn’t forgive Tris, yet you expect Tris to forgive Caleb.
You seem to be giving a hard time to Tris while you let other characters off so easily, even ifthey done worse things. Post is full of contradictions.
i totally,completely agree with you!!!!!!!!she is just so annoying!!!!!
Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" The other characters were more interesting, and I wish they were the main character(s). For instance, Uriah would have..." I AGREE SO MUCH, LIKE I HATE HER, AND WHEN SHE KILLED WILL, SHE MADE IT ALL ABOUT HER, I WAS JUST SHAKING MY HEAD AT HER WHILE READING INSURGENT.
For all those people trying to say something or another about Kween Katniss everdeen, get your facts checked first. Katniss is faaaaaaarrr from perfect. Much farther than Tris. Yet she is likable. And realistic. And incredibly flawed. Also, whoever's saying that she didn't risk her life......You gotta be kidding me.
Tris it's incomparable to Katniss. Katniss risks her life EVERY DAY. Hunting so that prim and her mother will not starve, volunteering for prim, defending Gale at the whipping post, fighting for justice, quarter quell, and so so much more. Because of her experience of fending for her family since the age of eleven, she has insane trust issues. She it's cold-blooded. REALLY cold-blooded. She suffers from PTSD... She is as realistic as you can get in a realistic future. She is extremely flawed.
That's why I love her.
But Tris, oh God. Lord help me. WHY DID YOU HAVE TO PUT DIVERGENT AND TRIS IN THE BOOK WORLD?! Are you trying to kill me?! God I hate them both with passion. Also, Katniss is like the best heroine if 2008-until like FOREVER. She has gone through SO MUCH, so so much, that it also poses a reason why Tris and Katniss are incomparable. That's one of the many reasons THG has much more of a fandom than Divergent will ever have. No offense. Well, it's my opinion. And a lot of facts. But either way you shouldn't get offended. Back to Mockingjay!
Honestly Tris is fine, its a whole concept of a book to like characters or dislike characters. I mean, she does something pretty selfless at the end of Allegiant which i wont spoil, so i wouldnt say shes that selfish... we all have our own opinions so yeah:-/
when i found out from a spoiler that she ends up you know....i completely lost my shit and decided to not even read the last book:'(
I found people who love ranting!!! So I don't like main characters in general. I find them bland and basically only used to keep the plot going (Ponyboy from the Outsiders being my biggest exception.). So Of course I disliked Tris from the beginning. I won't pull out all my reasons to not like her but I will stress the one thing that annoyed me to no end. Will. I was very invested in Christina and Will's love life so when Will died I was absolutely devastated. What annoys me most is that there are so many other ways she could've stopped Will. I mean, there are other options than killing him. But no!!!!! She had to choose between her life and his, instead of shooting him in the leg or something to stop him. Ok, that's it, all my other points have been taken.
I personally think Tris is awesome! Obviously she has flaws (and a lot of them) but who doesn't? I think the reason that she was so put off and upset about her bro almost letting her die was because he seemed like the least expected person to do it. And plus, he's her last alive relative! You'd think he'd have a little more compassion! So, just to clarify, I do agree with a lot of the things mentioned above, but just like Katniss, and almost every character in the world, they have to have flaws if the author wants the reader to connect with the character.
I totally agree. Tris is a completely overrated character. I feel like at this point, her character was just not original. She was boring. I'm not saying I don't like Divergent. I'm just saying that I don't really like the main character
Sandra wrote: "Her character is SO overrated - and the books make her out to be "so special!" The other characters were more interesting, and I wish they were the main character(s). For instance, Uriah would have..."
I usually don’t comment much on these types of posts anymore but i guess i’ll give it a try lol
I agree that Tris was selfish and cold hearted and it was all done in a way that made her character unlikeable . I think some things like remembering her parents and her wanting to do as they would have wanted was a somewhat admirable and realistic aspect of her character along with things like fear, handling a situation in an immature way because of fear and wanting to maintain some control , her resentment (understandable but it’s not good to hold onto because negative things corrupt people) towards Peter and some other characters , her half and half friendship with Al i think she should have set clear boundaries etc.
These are problems that can corrupt the purity of a character
-holding onto hatred
-being selfish to the extent of hurting others unnecessarily when it could have been avoided
-resenting someone even after they’ve improved their behavior towards you
-unwillingness to forgive
- turning into what they disliked and becoming bad themselves instead of setting a better example and being a good influence
-seeing things only from the perspective of the ones she considers important or loved by her
-etc.
I think Tris would have felt better if she could forgive Peter and try to understand him as his character progressed . She should have probably tried to be more understanding with Tobias instead of constantly criticizing him for the decisions he made and talking it through and trying to accept his decisions with some civility and decency , helped her friends get rid of their negative character traits . Etc. Although i think to an extent they grew more than she did in a way .
In the end she forgave Caleb and risked her life for him but didn’t seem to care about Peter at all even though he repayed the favor of saving her life ( he gives what seems like a half truth excuse for a reason as to why he saved her)
But anyways thats what i think.
( i may delete this later but i just thought i would state my perspective.)
I usually don’t comment much on these types of posts anymore but i guess i’ll give it a try lol
I agree that Tris was selfish and cold hearted and it was all done in a way that made her character unlikeable . I think some things like remembering her parents and her wanting to do as they would have wanted was a somewhat admirable and realistic aspect of her character along with things like fear, handling a situation in an immature way because of fear and wanting to maintain some control , her resentment (understandable but it’s not good to hold onto because negative things corrupt people) towards Peter and some other characters , her half and half friendship with Al i think she should have set clear boundaries etc.
These are problems that can corrupt the purity of a character
-holding onto hatred
-being selfish to the extent of hurting others unnecessarily when it could have been avoided
-resenting someone even after they’ve improved their behavior towards you
-unwillingness to forgive
- turning into what they disliked and becoming bad themselves instead of setting a better example and being a good influence
-seeing things only from the perspective of the ones she considers important or loved by her
-etc.
I think Tris would have felt better if she could forgive Peter and try to understand him as his character progressed . She should have probably tried to be more understanding with Tobias instead of constantly criticizing him for the decisions he made and talking it through and trying to accept his decisions with some civility and decency , helped her friends get rid of their negative character traits . Etc. Although i think to an extent they grew more than she did in a way .
In the end she forgave Caleb and risked her life for him but didn’t seem to care about Peter at all even though he repayed the favor of saving her life ( he gives what seems like a half truth excuse for a reason as to why he saved her)
But anyways thats what i think.
( i may delete this later but i just thought i would state my perspective.)
It's funny that. A lot of people also really dislike Tris Prior and I understand why there are some reasons that she is not the best main protagonist of a story ever and everyone has different opinions. Personally I love her. She is incredibly well written but... *Spoiler*
In the second book when she went to Erudite even when Tobias was like "There are other ways" personally made me really dislike Tris for that one chapter. But otherwise I do very much like her and understand why others may not like her.
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