2016 Dorothy L. Sayers Challenge

[Susan]

Leslie, I agree Anthony Andrews would have been a great Lord Peter (if perhaps a little too handsome?) and he was perfect as Sebastian in Brideshead.

[HJ]

My favourite Lord Peter actor is Edward Petherbridge, with Harriet Walter as Harriet Vane. They were BBC dramatisations, and very well done. They are out on DVD.

[Roisin]

I liked him as Lord Peter, but nothing compares to Mr Carmichael.

[HJ]

Susan wrote: "Leslie, I agree Anthony Andrews would have been a great Lord Peter (if perhaps a little too handsome?) and he was perfect as Sebastian in Brideshead."

He was very good as the Scarlet Pimpernell, too. I also remember him acting in a rather eerie play which I saw on TV. Having looked through IMDB I think it might have been A Superstition, one of the Sunday Drama series, made in 1977 i.e. before Brideshead Revisited etc. I must have seen a repeat.

[Roisin]

'Lord Peter (if perhaps a little too handsome)...'

: )) No way! Ian Carmichael was very dashing. *blushes* ; )

[Leslie]

HJ wrote: "Susan wrote: "Leslie, I agree Anthony Andrews would have been a great Lord Peter (if perhaps a little too handsome?) and he was perfect as Sebastian in Brideshead."

He was very good as the Scarlet..."

I will have to look for that Scarlet Pimpernel - the one I remember has Leslie Howard as the Pimpernel.

And yes, Susan, he was perfect in Brideshead - I recently rewatched that via DVDs from the library. Everyone was excellent - I had forgotten that old Lord Marchmain was played by Laurence Olivier!

[Susan]

Yes, it is rare that a tv series keeps so well to the novel. Beautifully cast. I love Jeremy Irons too - I saw him in a play about Harold Macmillan and he was brilliant.

[Jan C]

It made me want to read the book. Of course, I did keep putting it down so that it took me about 20 years to read it. But I did like it in the end.

I didn't like either one of the Lord Peters (or is that Lords Peter?). I didn't like Harriet either. By the time I finally saw both of them I had read all of the books so that I already had an image of Peter and Harriet and these people weren't it.

[Judy]

I loved Edward Petherbridge and Harriet Walter as Peter and Harriet, but haven't seen any of the Ian Carmichael version - must give it a try.

As another viewer who loved the TV Brideshead Revisited, I agree that Anthony Andrews would have been good casting!

[Barbara]

So finished the first book and I am hooked. What a delightful read, good mystery, good conclusion, and great characters. Already started the second book and really look forward to reading more. I did very much like LPW but really liked Parker. Can't wait to get to know these characters even more.

[Susan]

That's great, Barbara. Equally, I am delighted to have discovered Heyer and am looking forward to reading LPW books I haven't got to yet.

[Judy]

Can I ask, has anybody read Sayers' letters, and would you recommend them? I've noticed some copies turning up cheap at Amazon (probably also on other book sites) and am tempted...

[Jan C]

It has good ratings. A GR friend of mine gave it 5 stars. She is a big fan of Sayers.

[Judy]

I've started our third book a bit early by mistake - I managed to find a battered paperback copy in a local charity shop yesterday, peeked at the beginning and am now finding it impossible to put down! I think this one, Unnatural Death, is probably the best yet. I have read it in the past but don't remember what happens so far.

I did notice that the identity of the villain in the first novel is mentioned in this one, so that means reading in order is all the more important.

[Susan]

I always prefer to read a series in order. I think that's what turned me off Allingham - reading the first book and then jumping in and reading a book much further on in the series, so the characters seemed to make no sense...

[Leslie]

Judy wrote: "I've started our third book a bit early by mistake - I managed to find a battered paperback copy in a local charity shop yesterday, peeked at the beginning and am now finding it impossible to put d..."

Ooh, that is the one that introduces Miss Climpson -- I love her character!

[Judy]

Yes, she is a lot of fun!

[Barbara]

So I read the second book and couldn't wit for the third. These characters are great and the more you read the better you understand them. They are so enjoyable and boy did all the scandal with his brother in the second book-oohhh!!!!

[Susan]

I also love Miss Climpson and I feel that Sayers had great fun writing her part/letters. However, I will keep my thoughts to myself until we discuss the book next month.

[Judy]

Yes, I've now finished this one and have some thoughts about it but will bite my lip until we get there. :)

[Michelle]

I'm wondering about the Jill Paton Walsh books that carry on the Lord Peter Wimsey books, I'm sure people have read them here so are they any good? Is it best to wait until it finished all the DLS ones? I can't tell which one is first, could someone enlighten me?

[Judy]

Michelle, I think it's best to wait to read those until you've read all the DLS books, as they carry on where she left off. I liked a couple of them, but wasn't quite so keen on others.

The first one is Thrones, Dominations, which is the completion of a book which Sayers started but didn't write very much of.

[Michelle]

Judy wrote: "Michelle, I think it's best to wait to read those until you've read all the DLS books, as they carry on where she left off. I liked a couple of them, but wasn't quite so keen on others.

The first..."

Ok thanks, I don't want to spoil the plots so I shall do that. Thanks for the details of the first one for when I get there. I think I shall try one at least.

But I am noticing with this group that my to read pile is now huge (well to be fair it always was). I'm relatively new to golden age crime having only read my first Agatha Christie 15 months ago, having turned my nose up for years, bigger fool me! Huge world to discover out there with this genre and thanks to this group.

Someone at work saw me sneaking the georgette Heyer back into the book swap and has offered to lend me several......

[Susan]

Michelle, I am considering setting up 'buddy reads' for the Jill Paton Walsh books after the Sayers challenge. I haven't read them either and would like to - so that is one option, depending on interest.

[Michelle]

Susan wrote: "Michelle, I am considering setting up 'buddy reads' for the Jill Paton Walsh books after the Sayers challenge. I haven't read them either and would like to - so that is one option, depending on int..."

sounds like a good idea, I'd be interested!

[Susan]

Great, they will be something to look forward to after the challenge is completed.

[Sandy]

Something to look forward to - I've never read the Jill Paton Walsh books and they have been on my TBR.

[HJ]

I'm in two minds about the Jill Paton Walsh books, just as I am about Felix Francis writing books which are supposedly like those of his father, Dick Francis.

My instinct is opposed to other people trying to continue where the original author left off. I feel that they cannot win: it's impossible for anyone to write just like someone else, so readers wanting that will be disappointed. On the other hand, by definition they can't write just the way they would naturally write, and have to keep looking over their shoulders at the author they're supposed to be emulating.

But maybe I'm being unfair, and people who have actually read JPW will say that reading her DLS continuations is a good experience.

[Karlyne]

HJ wrote: "I'm in two minds about the Jill Paton Walsh books, just as I am about Felix Francis writing books which are supposedly like those of his father, Dick Francis.

My instinct is opposed to other peop..."

I've had the same experience, Hj. The "continuations" just don't work for me.

[Jan C]

HJ wrote: "I'm in two minds about the Jill Paton Walsh books, just as I am about Felix Francis writing books which are supposedly like those of his father, Dick Francis.

My instinct is opposed to other peop..."

I really thought Dick Francis' books fell off when his wife died. Gave me the impression was the real writer (or perhaps editor) of the books all along.

The Walsh books are okay. It was my understanding that the Sayers estate urged her to finish that first book, Thrones, Dominations, which was Sayers' last unfinished book of Lord Peter.

And, although I love Ace Atkins I haven't read any of his Spencer books. I just wish he would get back to writing the semi-series he had going with fictionalized tales of scandals related to cities. Tampa, Phenix City, San Francisco and Los Angeles (I am still reading Devil's Garden).

[Everyman]

HJ wrote: "My instinct is opposed to other people trying to continue where the original author left off.."

I very much agree with you there. I also think it's lazy to just steal somebody else's characters and situations and make money living off the reputation for quality writing they earned through hard work.

If you're a genuine writer, develop your own characters and ideas and write them. If you're not, don't write.

Harsh, maybe, but I don't like people stealing from or profiting off of other peoples work and reputations. And the fact that a writer's estate lets this happen is no excuse in my book -- it just shows that the heirs value profit above their duty to those who created the works.

[Karlyne]

Harsh, but valid, Everyman. Unless you're a syndicate (I'm thinking of "Carolyn Keene", who never actually existed), or are working with the still-living authors, I have reservations, too. I don't care an iota if anyone else reads them, but they bother my soul.

[Ashley]

I don't see anything wrong with using others' characters or universes (so long as it is done legally). Originality is not the be all end all of creativity. Shakespeare stole most of his plots--that didn't make him any less creative. In some ways, using established characters requires more creativity than making them up from scratch, because you have to make up new dialogue and plots while ensuring it fits with already established characterization and events. I don't have an opinion about JPW's books, since I haven't read them. I'm not sure I will read them, but I don't see any harm in someone imagining more stories; it doesn't affect the originals in any way, just gives people some extra fun if they want it.

[Leslie]

Everyman wrote: "HJ wrote: "My instinct is opposed to other people trying to continue where the original author left off.."

I very much agree with you there. I also think it's lazy to just steal somebody else's ch..."

I am in complete agreement. It seems to me that there is an increasing number of these now.

[Susan]

I will say that I really did not like the Poirot novel attempted a year or so ago. The author admitted that she had not read many of the books, which was apparently obvious as 'her' Poirot liked fresh air and going for long walks to clear his head. A little out of character...

[Sandy]

Susan wrote: "I will say that I really did not like the Poirot novel attempted a year or so ago. The author admitted that she had not read many of the books, which was apparently obvious as 'her' Poirot liked fr..."

I'm amazed that anyone would write a "follow up" without studying all the originals and taking notes. They must realize their readers will know the character very well. And I expect the author to like the originals.

[Susan]

I have never read anything by Sophie Hannah before, but I know she was upset at the backlash to her book. However, Poirot and his aversion to drafts are, I'm sure, well known to us all :)

[Karlyne]

And his patent leather pumps - not particularly conducive to long walks!

[HJ]

Jan C wrote: "I really thought Dick Francis' books fell off when his wife died. Gave me the impression was the real writer (or perhaps editor) of the books all along. ..."

I read a biography of Dick Francis which convinced me that his wife Mary was the author. Dick's background in racing meant that he could supply the necessary detail of racing stables etc., and of course his name sold the books originally.

[Karlyne]

HJ wrote: "Jan C wrote: "I really thought Dick Francis' books fell off when his wife died. Gave me the impression was the real writer (or perhaps editor) of the books all along. ..."

I read a biography of Di..."

Wow!

[Judy]

My sister is a big fan of Sophie Hannah but doesn't like Agatha Christie so she hasn't tried the Hannah Poirot book - sounds as if maybe she should!

I've been thinking about this question of sequels by other people and I think they really vary - some are very good books in their own right, and out of the JPW ones I did really like The Attenbury Emeralds but wasn't so keen on some of the others. I might give them all a try again if you do the buddy reads, though, Susan. I just can't get enough Wimsey. :)

I think Jill Paton Walsh is a good author - I loved some of her books as a teenager, including The Dolphin Crossing about Dunkirk, which I still remember. I know she has also written some detective stories about her own heroine, Imogen Quy - has anyone tried any of those?

[Judy]

Margery Allingham's husband, Youngman Carter, wrote a couple of Campion books after she died - I hadn't realised that he also used to help her with the planning of her Campion books and he wrote a lot of crime short stories himself, so I'd be interested to read his sequels. Don't know why I've never got round to them...

[Susan]

I have read some of the Imogen Quy books and enjoyed them. I would be willing to try her Wimsey books, just because I heard her speaking on Books and Authors and thought she spoke a lot of sense - about respecting Sayers characters, never considering the books her own, etc. Sophie Hannah (who I don't know anything about, so I don't want to comment about her too much), just seemed a little too glib and as though she felt it was fine to put her own stamp on Christie's books, without seeming to realise how beloved Poirot is to many.

[HJ]

For UK Amazon members, Thrones, Dominations by Jill Paton Walsh (the continuation of DLS's unfinished Lord Peter Wimsey book) is a Kindle Daily deal today at 99p.

[Susan]

Thanks for posting, HJ.

[Jay-me (Janet)]

I have just treated myself to the kindle edition of The Nine Tailors which is the only one of the series that I don't have the paperback copy of (due to lending it and never getting it back)
It was only £1.99 on Amazon uk - most of the other books are currently £5.99.

I recently bought the Ian Carmichael series of DVDs, but the Edward Petherbridge series is too expensive :(

[Everyman]

For "Lord Peter Views the Body," are you going to open a thread for each story, or are you going to lump them all under one thread? Or have threads for subgroups of the stories?

[Susan]

I will open two threads - one spoiler and one non spoiler. I do not want to dictate the discussion too much, but perhaps we can discuss them in order - that might work better if people start reading the book next month?

[HJ]

I agree that we should only have up the threads for the book of the month, each month, and one spoiler and one non spoiler is just right.

[Susan]

Like we said, both me and Judy are new at running a group, so we can experiment and find out what works for us all.