Let The Great World Spin - Overall & Links (April 2014)

[Terry]

This is a place to discuss the book as a whole, and any references, the author, etc.

It's okay to post spoilers here -- don't read this unless you're happy to read spoilers.

[Terry]

'McCann's fiction becomes an allegory for the shock and aftermath of 9/11, for the city's fall and its own equilibrium' -- Observer

'The first great 9/11 novel... It is a pre-9/11 novel that delivers that delivers the sense that so many of the 9/11 novels have missed: we are all dancing on the wire of history, and even on solid ground we breathe the thinnest of air' -- Esquire

To what extent do you relate to the links drawn between the novel and 9/11? How do you see an understanding of one complementing the other?

[Shelby]

well, for starters, the entire life of the twin towers is seen and experienced, however peripheral those experiences may be, from tthe novel's beginning to end. The beginning of the novel (the "birth" of theme towers if you will), upon seeing the tight rope walker, sees the characters as separated entities, whereas the post-9/11 ending links each character to each other, essentially creating one all-encompassing bubble; in a sense, the towers create addition by subtraction by the novel's end.

[Shelby]

Forgive any spelling errors on my part ad I'm on my phone at the moment.

[Terry]

That's interesting, Shelby. The towers aren't mentioned in the final chapter. Do you feel their presence (or rather absence) loomed anyway? If so, do you think this was unavoidable, or was it due to careful calculation on McCann's part?

[Lily]

Anyone know if there is a movie or TV series that is set in the location where Corrigan lives and the prostitutes work? I read a lot more than I watch either, but there is something about this story that reminds me of a really tough and sad film with several prostitutes as characters that I saw long ago -- no recallable memory of its name. I wonder what brought McCann to this setting -- I haven't seen an interview where he has commented. I don't recall if it was an especially blighted area in the news at the time (certainly the Bronx in a number of areas was).

[Allison]

Were they in Hunts Point (a neighborhood in the Bronx)? I was under the impression that was where they were, but don't have the book to confirm. There was a documentary that ran on HBO for a long time called Hookers at the Point. I just searched and you can view it on YouTube - it's extremely frank (language, disturbing lives of the women, etc.), so watch at your own discretion. I don't believe it shows any actual sex - though I haven't seen it in years - but the stories and language are extremely blue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmoEXt...

[Allison]

When googling around to see if it was in fact Hunts Point, I found this really interesting bio of McCann. Definitely worth reading (it's just past the poem at the top of the page). It provides lots of insight into this book.

http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org...

Most interesting to me in the above is this quote from McCann on Let The Great World Spin:

He once said, "If I had a gun to my head, and somebody asked me what this book was about, I would say it's about achieving grace in the face of trauma and not making a grief-fest out of 9-11." Though the story famously begins with the image of the tightrope walker high in the air between the twin towers, McCann said that for him, that's not really what it's about. For him, "the core image of the novel" is "when two little girls emerge from a Bronx housing complex and get rescued by strangers."

I am not sure how I feel about this. I felt the book kind of made a grief fest out of the tightrope walk, though there was definitely hope and happiness in it's ending.

To the original question I had, in the book's excerpt listed, Tilli describes her arrest record and does mention Hunts Point specifically.

[Lily]

Allison wrote: "To the original question I had, in the book's excerpt listed, Tilli describes her arrest record and does mention Hunts Point specifically..."

Thx for your comments and info, Allison. I agree with your comment about "grief Fest," and given the scenario in Grace's apartment, I wasn't so sure about hope. Some people continue to be stupid. Or, perhaps there seem to continue to be replacements for those who disappear.

Here is another "tough" Hunt's Point link, called "Faces of Addiction." The images may offend.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/arnade/...

[LindaJ^]

Thanks Allison for the link to the writers almanac blurb about the Colum McCann. I have to spend some time flipping through this book. I read it three years ago - April 2011 - and loved it. I thought it did just what McCann wanted it to do -- "I wanted it to be a Whitmanesque song of the city, with everything in there — high and low, rich and poor, black, white, and Hispanic. Hungry, exhausted, filthy, vivacious, everything this lovely city is. I wanted to catch some of that music and slap it down on the page so that even those who have never been to New York can be temporarily transported there."

I'll give you that there was a lot of grief, but never did I think of it as a "grief-fest." It was a story of New York City, the place, told through lives of people who were there, loosely connected by the amazing tightrope walk between the towers.

[Terry]

Linda, once again I agree entirely. A song of the city is a very appropriate term

Lily, Allison, can you tell me more about what you mean when you say it was a grief fest? Do you feel that McCann used grief in a way that made a negative impression on you? If so, how?

[Lily]

Terry wrote: "Lily, Allison, can you tell me more about what you mean when you say it was a grief fest? Do you feel that McCann used grief in a way that made a negative impression on you? If so, how?..."

I wouldn't have said "grief fest" myself, but as soon as Allison used the term, it "felt" so right, so appropriate. Not in a negative sense, however.

Not sure how coherent what I'm going to cobble together here is going to be, but let me throw out a few thoughts. First, within the story itself, there are several "grief stories": the deaths of Corrigan and Jazzlyn, the deaths of all the young men who served in Vietnam, the deaths of Solomon, Gloria, Claire. Those alone were enough to say, "oh, yes," to Allison's observation. There are also losses in the lives of Tillie (incarcerated without ready access to her granddaughters), of Ciaran who returns to Ireland (Did I just realize his wife Lara had been the woman in the Pontiac -- or probably I did when reading and had forgotten already. But another story of loss -- and gain.), of Adelita who must continue alone. Possibly too grandiose a simile, but sort of like a requiem at Easter time?

Probably the second major aspect that led to agreement with "grief-fest" was all that positioned this novel relative to 9/11. I don't know if I would have done that with the story if I had read it independently of all the marketing hype and Colum's own comments in interviews and reader's guide. But, if you lived anywhere within seventy-five miles of the City (about the commuter radius), you probably experienced the losses -- colleagues, friends, friends of friends, family - hardest of all, memorial services, newspaper bios, months and years later -- the memorial dedications. One came to recognize death is embedded in life all around us, all the time. (Our modern tendency seems to be to dampen the vibrations as quickly as possible.) So, recognizing grief when it was mentioned came easily and quickly. But, the man in the sky did offer the lightness, the hope of fest(ival). So, "grief-fest" fit like a glove when Allison suggested it, including the various ways of dealing with it, from traditional rites to support groups to moving on. The mourning wasn't morbid, but it needed to be done, to be lifted to the skies and the tough-fragile, whenever in history it occurred. And, yes, Colum has it "right" when he suggests the real fest is caring for two little orphaned girls.

[Lily]

Have readers here read Sonia Sotomayor's My Beloved World? From the Projects in the Bronx to the DA offices in City Hall to Sonia's tenure with an uptown law firm, I found myself drawing parallels between the two books.

[Terry]

Odd. I can't myself separate the term grief-fest from a negative connotation. It seems to carry with it an implication that it's being indulged in for improper motives, that the grief is manipulative and not genuine, the idea of playing on people's grief or using grief in an unsubtle way, a way that cheapens it or demeans it.

Just riffing on how the phrase resonates for me. Two countries separated by a common language, all that. If what you're saying is that the story explores grief deeply, both in the context of the characters' smaller stories and in terms of 9/11, but not in a negative way, then we agree.

I also agree hugely about the hope. For me, Gloria stepping up to claim the babies was hope. Claire and Gloria forging a friendship that lasted long enough for Claire to mean so much to an adult Jaslyn was hope. Lara's redemption in Ciaran was hope. As the man says, let the great world spin.

[Lily]

Terry wrote: "...Two countries separated by a common language, all that...."

I hope Allison will weigh in on this discussion. It is quite possible I took "grief-fest" in a different way than she had in mind when she chose it. Despite the Atlantic, I'm not sure the usages of grief-fest are as different between us as I may have concocted. It was the particular usage and etymology of the parts that caught my attention in this context. At one level, I asked myself, did Colum even realize in assembling his stories how much the fighting back (or accepting) death and putting it in its proper perspective was essential to a resurrection story after 9/11. Or did it just happen because that is what we all had to do -- to some extent, still do.

I will suggest that "grief-fest" may include indulging in grief seemingly too long or too much as well as for improper or manipulative motives, as in "they made a grief-fest of their therapy sessions." Colum chose to include a lot of grief stories in LtGWS.

If what you're saying is that the story explores grief deeply, both in the context of the characters' smaller stories and in terms of 9/11, but not in a negative way, then we agree.

It is fascinating to me how essential relative to 9/11 the grief stories are, yet not one that Colum chose to include was a direct result. (At least that I can recall right now.)

Thx for your concluding paragraph. You brought together a lot more succinctly than I had.

[Allison]

Lily's initial summation was just as I intended. But to clarify, I stole the term "grief-fest" from McCann himself. In the quote I cited previously, he said, "I would say it's about achieving grace in the face of trauma and not making a grief-fest out of 9-11".

Taking any connotation of manipulation out of the term, 9/11 was indeed, to me, a grief-fest. Living locally, I can remember everyone waiting for someone to come home, frantic phone calls and dead cell service, a constant stream of horrific and shocking news, etc. Not to go on and on, but basically, on that day everyone was focused on the exact same thing. I don't think you'd find anyone who said, yes, I heard it on the news, but then had a great lunch with my friends. It was a day full of grief and sorrow, and the only hope you could pull from it was how many people were pulled together in the spirit of recovery.

On the day of Petit's walk, though magical, not every life stopped to fixate on it. I would assume everyone in NYC was having a pretty typical day, which would mean a great variety of things. Yet, LtGWS seemed to focus only on a handful of characters who had the most depressing day possible. It took something that was magical and fun, and used that to thread together characters terribly afflicted with grief. In that sense, it made it a grief-fest.

I want to reiterate, I think the book is great. I wouldn't call it manipulative. What I wanted to note was that if drew together very sad stories, loosely tied to something that was not sad at all. And that's fine. But reading McCann's quote about his intention of it making a more hopeful ending out of 9/11, just seemed contradictory to me. Frankly, other than the two buildings involved, this book seemed to have no tie to 9/11 in my mind. I would not have thought twice about linking the two days together if it wasn't suggested elsewhere.

[Lily]

I know that it is still early in the month, but I certainly hope those on this poll who haven't had a chance to read the book or post yet will join the discussion:

https://www.goodreads.com/poll/answer...

(I'm glad you all chose it. Not a book I would have been likely to have selected myself, but I have enjoyed it very much and have been talking to my friends about it.)

[Lily]

Allison wrote: "...I would not have thought twice about linking the two days together if it wasn't suggested elsewhere. ..."

As you know from what I wrote @12, I much agree with you. (....all that positioned this novel relative to 9/11. I don't know if I would have done that with the story if I had read it independently of all the marketing hype and Colum's own comments...) One of the thoughts just now as I was thinking about whether to recommend this to my f2f club was that LTGWS may be just far enough removed from the pain of 9/11 that it could be a good vehicle for discussion -- perhaps another reason it can be considered a 9/11 related book? Although I don't know that I would discuss it even now with at least some of the more traumatized people who ran from the Plaza that day.

[Terry]

I loved some of the language in the book:

p24 (paperback): 'Cars and trucks were pulling into the shadows. The women struck poses. They wore hotpants and bikini tops and swimsuits, a bizarre city beach. An angled arm, in the shadowlight, reached the top of the expressway. A stiletto climbed to the top of a barbed-wire fence. A leg stretched half the length of a city block.'

How did you feel about the language used in the book? Did it support the story and the author's aims? Did you have any favourite passages?

[Daniel]

Terry wrote: "How did you feel about the language used in the book? Did it support the story and the author's aims? Did you have any favourite passages?"

Ohhh, now I wish I had marked down passages before returning my copy to the library! There was a passage where a soldier is relaying news of their son's death to Sol and Claire, and it is described as pulling grief like so many colorful handkerchiefs in a magic trick. The language may have escaped me, but the imagery remains vivid in my mind. Devastatingly beautiful.

[Lily]

Terry wrote: "...p24 (paperback): 'Cars ans trucks were pulling into the shadows. The women struck poses. They wore hotpants and bikini tops and swimsuits, a bizarre city beach. An angled arm, in the shadowlight, reached the top of the expressway. A stiletto climbed to the top of a barbed-wire fence. A leg stretched half the length of a city block.'..."

The last two phrases reminded me of the girl in Murakami's 1Q84 in the early scenes as she climbed down from the freeway. But the whole scene certainly matches the Flickr pictures of Hunt's Point linked elsewhere (@9). (I wonder if the words were even more evocative after seeing the photos. The preceding words about the lights of the cars overhead and the underpass brought to mind a black & white (& blue light) image of a number of places around NY.) A tough, seedy section of the City is understating the case.

I liked the language and McCann's writing skills, but interestingly, it was not a book in which I marked very many passages. P.S. On checking, that's not quite true. Many are short phrases, however. Will pull a few another time.

[Lily]

Daniel wrote: "Ohhh, now I wish I had marked down passage..."

"She knows that she has not told certain things about it, that the intercom had buzzed, that the doorman had stuttered, that the wait was a stunned one, that the sound of his knocking was like that against a coffin lid, that he took off his hat and said ma’am and then sir, and that they had said, Come in, come in,...

"...he turned away from his own reflection and she might have even liked him then, the way he coughed into the hollow of his rounded hand, the gentleness of it. He held his hand at his mouth and he was like a magician about to pull out a sad scarf. He looked around, as if about to leave, as if there might be all sorts of exits, but she sat him down again. She went to the kitchen and brought a slice of fruitcake for him to eat . To ease the tension. He ate it with a little flick of guilt in his eyes. The little crumbs on the floor. She could hardly bring herself to vacuum them up afterward."

Mccann, Colum (2009-06-16). Let the Great World Spin: A Novel (p. 111). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Thanks for calling this out, Daniel. That whole section is so poignant, even more so on the re-reading. I like this, too: (to shorten visible post)(view spoiler)[

When he had gone, when the night was silent, they had stood there in the room, Solomon and Claire, looking at each other, and he had said they would not crack, which they hadn’t, which she wouldn’t, no, they wouldn’t blame each other, they wouldn’t grow bitter, they’d get through it, survive, they would not allow it to become a rift between them."

Ibid. (p. 112).

The knowledge, the wisdom, the education reflected in what they could immediately say to each other. Claire's guilt that she kept smiling. The reassurance of the other women, probably Gloria: "That's what you do, you keep back the tears, gospel."

The strength here is not so much the language as the subtle telling of the women's sharing. (hide spoiler)]

[Daniel]

Yes, that's it exactly. Thank you for taking the time to pull the quote, Lily.

[Lily]

Daniel wrote: "Yes, that's it exactly. Thank you for taking the time to pull the quote, Lily."

I remembered the scene, but not the part you had. Since I have the Kindle version still on library loan, decided to see if I could find it. It was powerful to reread several pages. I had shuddered initially at "the sound of his knocking was like that against a coffin lid" and did again. Now recognizing the protective mezuzah on the door could not shut out the soldier's telegram added another level of reverie to the scene. Yet the mezuzah stays and will be there when Jaslyn comes to visit Aunt Claire (view spoiler)[on her deathbed. No, I can't verify that now in the text. But I shall imagine it is. (hide spoiler)]

Colum may have an affinity for magic trick allusions. He used the it again, not as effectively, to my way of reacting, when Solomon was dispensing quickly with Tillie and Jazzlyn so he could claim the funambulist case. (p. 267, Kindle)

[Julie]

Are the different characters related to the chapters in any way or is it all mixed up going back and forth between them? I am listening to the audiobook so can't skim anything or see chapters. Seems like I need to finish the whole thing before reading threads to avoid spoilers...is that right?

[Lily]

Julie wrote: "Are the different characters related to the chapters in any way or is it all mixed up going back and forth between them? I am listening to the audiobook so can't skim anything or see chapters. Seem..."

That's probably true. Actually, Julie, give some thought to the meaning and significance of spoilers to your reading with a mashed up text like this. I'd enjoy hearing your comments when you reach the point where you are comfortable with that.

[Julie]

I already saw one big spoiler. Good thing I am not totally unaccepting of them!

[Lily]

Julie wrote: "I already saw one big spoiler. Good thing I am not totally unaccepting of them!"

Terry did open this thread with a warning in the first post.

Not sure I can prove this textually, but my own sense of the book is that it is written with embedded spoilers -- i.e., statements about the future that one only understands after one reads the perspective of another character.

[Terry]

With this book, it didn't seem to me like there were very many real spoilers. It felt like a character-based split for the discussion threads would be best, but I couldn't see a way to make this fit with the idea of spoiler free threads for discussion as people progress, without creating too many threads. I'd suggest just diving in unless you're very spoiler averse. Otherwise, yes, maybe read first then discuss. Happy to accept feedback on the approach.

[LindaJ^]

Terry wrote: "I loved some of the language in the book:

p24 (paperback): 'Cars and trucks were pulling into the shadows. The women struck poses. They wore hotpants and bikini tops and swimsuits, a bizarre city ..."

Now that I and my copy of the book are in the same place, I have been able to locate the part of the book that most entranced me with its language. It is the chapter titled "Let the Great World Spin Forever Down" that starts on page 157 of the original hardcover edition. It is only 8 pages in length but I was entranced. The part I remembered (from two years ago) concerned the wire walker and the snow found on page 159-160.

He went out in the cold to the path he had dug in the snow, wearing only boots, jeans, a lumber shirt, a scarf. He climbed the pegs in the pole, walked the wire without a balancing pole, and traveled out to meet the tracks. The whiteness thrilled him. It seemed to him that it was like stepping along the spine of a horse twoard a cool lake. The snow reinstructed the light, bent it, colored it, bounced it. He was exuberant, almost stoned. I should jump inside and swim. Dive into it. He put one foot out and then hopped, arms stretched, palms flat. But in midflight he realized what he'd done. ... The snow was crisp and dense, and he had jumped feet-first off the wire, like a man into a pool. ... He was chest-deep in it and could not get out. ... He was encased, a cell of snow. ... The snow leaked along his ankle, down into his boots. His shirt had ridden up on his body. It was like landing in a cold wet skin. He could feel the crystals on his navel, his chest. It was his buisness to live, to fight for it--it would be, he thought, his whole life's work just to get himself out of there.

Then, at the end of the chapter (page 163-64), he describes how the walk between the towers begins:

One foot on the wire--his better foot, the balancing foot. First he slid his toes, then his sole, then his heel. The cable nested between his big and second tows for grip. His slippers were thin, the soles made of buffalo hide. He paused ther a moment, pulled the line tighter by the strength of his eyes. He played out the aluminum pole along his hands. The coolness rolled across his palm. The pole was fifty-five pounds, half the weight of a woman. She moved on his skin like water. He had wrapped rubber tubing around its center to keep it from slipping. With a curve of his left fingers he was able to tighten his right-hand calf muscle. The little finger played out the shape of his shoulder. It was the thumb that held the bar in place. He tilted upward right and the body came slightly left. The roll in the hand was so tiny no naked eye could see it. His mind shifted space to receive his old practiced self. No tiredness in his body anymore. He held the bar in muscular memory and in one flow went forward.

This was tension building writing. I was holding my breathe in both instances -- in the first, wondering how he would get out of the snow and in the second, hoping he would not fall. Of course, I know what would happen in each case, but that did not prevent my reaction. It was audacious. The snow scene was watched by no one but the wildlife. The tower walk by millions.

Does this support what the author was trying to do? It did for me. Few knew what preparation the wire walker undertook, but many witnessed the event. That seems to fit the New York image the author was creating by telling us the stories of individuals and their daily lives.

[Lily]

Thx, Linda. I like your choices of quotations and thoughts on the book.

[Terry]

Yes, Linda. I very much appreciated the sense of tension the language built, in each of the wire chapters. Also the insight we were given into his state of mind, his zen.

[LindaJ^]

Last might I heard Colum McCann speak. During the talk, he read from Let the Great World Spin and talked about why he wrote it. He talked about a lot of other things that I'll summarize on the thread about Irish writers, but below is my summary of things about Let the Great World Spin.

Before reading the excerpts, he told us that it was a 9/11 book. He pointed to the photo in the book that shows Petit walking between the two towers and the plane in the corner that looks like it was on a course to hit a tower. He described the photo (a real, untouched, photo) as "anticipating what would come later." He said both events had people looking up -- one in horror, one in wonder.

He told us his 9/11 story. He was living in a building at 71st and 1st. He was writing and got up to get some coffee and noticed the phone messages blinking. His wife had not answered the phone because she also had been busy. After getting the coffee, he hit the message play button and there were calls from a number of people asking if he and the family were all right, including a call from his sister in London and his dad in Dublin. He then turned on the news. Later that day, his father-in-law, who worked on the 59th floor of the first tower to be hit, made it back, alive, to the apartment. His daughter ran to her Poppy and hugged him, but she quickly released her grandfather and ran and hid in the closet. When she was coaxed out, he said she was scared because her grandfather smelled like he was burning. It was explained that that was just the smoke and debris from the fire at the tower. She said that wasn't it but that "Poppy was burning from the inside out." McCann said that even though she did not appreciate what she was saying, it was exactly what was happening and he had to write about it.

After the readings - one about the walk, Claire's remebering what she had told her son as he left, and finally, Tillie's comments about the john who was "young but bald on top."

He also talked about the call he received a year ago in early February from a senior English teacher in Newtown CN, asking if they could use Let the Great World Spin as a way to talk about the tragedy that had struck the school. McCann provided books and later spend a day at the school talking with the kids. He said they taught him much, relaying what one student told him the book was about -- "by looking at the darkness you can see the meaning of life." McCann said that captured his "mantra" for writing -- to be capable of myth in the face of reality.

[Lily]

Linda wrote: "...one student told him the book was about -- "by looking at the darkness you can see the meaning of life." ..."

Linda -- thank you for relaying McCann's comments.

Wish I could have heard McCann last night. (I did consider coming.) Today, the missionary who delivered our Palm Sunday sermon talked of his many years serving in Ireland. I mentioned Colum's book as I walked out. He did not know it. You have convinced me I shall send him a note with a bit more about it.

[Lily]

Has our discussion of Let the Great World Spin come to its natural closure for this month or are there others out there who either have more to say or just haven't gotten a chance to read it and may still be reading? Would love to hear from you, especially if you voted for it to be discussed and haven't had a chance to comment yet. (Choose polls and select votes to remind yourself if need be?) Even your reason for not reading or not posting so far, if that's what happened, could be interesting to the rest of us.

[Lily]

As far as I can tell, we have heard from three of the twenty-eight people who voted for this selection?

[Terry]

Linda, that's great stuff, thank you. What a great opportunity to come up while we're reading this.

Lily, it is a shame we haven't heard from more people who voted. We do still have eleven days left in the month -- let's hope we hear from some more on the many questions and views already here as well as their own.

If not, while we (the mods) understand that life can sometimes get in the way and mean that an intention (as solidified in a vote) doesn't come to fruition (in terms of actually reading), but it's very much not something we are happy to have on an ongoing basis, and we will be reminding people of that.

[Lily]

Terry -- I know you all as moderators would like very much to change the participation ratio and I hope only to reflect that and my own selfish desires to have more people participate. Even one comment from each of so many could add such richness to the conversation. I do recognize the format chosen for this selection this month may have encouraged some readers to wait until they have finished the book to post, but I also think this is a format that makes sense for LTGWS. So, like you, I am hoping we will see a flurry of discussion and viewpoints over the next several days. Perhaps the holidays will give people time to finish the book. I, too, understand so very much how life gets in the way of intentions, but for so many all at the same time?

I didn't vote for this book, but am very glad it was chosen and then to have read it; I have since been telling others about it. Because it was an "older" book, it was easy to borrow an ebook copy from my library system. My local library had extra paper copies, too, because it had been a local discussion book.

[Terry]

I'm glad you have that enthusiasm, Lily, and very happy to hear you express it.

[Deborah]

Interestingly, it occurs to me, that the Wild Card selection, The Golem and the Jinni takes place in the neighborhood later torn down to build the world trade center.

[LindaJ^]

Deborah, that's interesting. It has me thinking about the view the Golem and the Jinni had from the rooftops they were traveling over that one night - rooftops that weren't very high in comparison to the World Trade Centers - but I bet the view for them were as amazing as the view from Windows on the World was for me.

[LindaJ^]

I happened to come across a very recent review of LTGWS today on a blog site and thought it one you all might appreciate -- http://storypassage.com/2014/03/10/re....

[Lily]

Linda wrote: "I happened to come across a very recent review of LTGWS today on a blog site and thought it one you all might appreciate -- http://storypassage.com/2014/03/10/re......"

Thank you for that, Linda!

"...the book as a whole is anything but depressing. It fully earns its vision of reconciliation and recovery. Perhaps stories of descent, purgation and redemption are part of McCann’s Catholic spiritual and literary DNA...."

[Lily]

Just spent some time looking over the reviews of LTGWS. Most were positive, but two negative ones caught my attention, along with the associated comments, one by Mike Gross and another by Christopher Ryan (Finland?).

Don't know if other readers can reach them via this link, it is the one I had:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...

I won't try to comment, beyond I perceived Gross as questioning whether McCann truly succeeded in portraying the souls of his African-American characters. I just found his, and Christopher's, comments sort of slap-in-the-face food for thought -- especially since about a novel to which I responded more and more favorably the more I had explored it.

[Laurel]

Lily wrote: "Just spent some time looking over the reviews of LTGWS. Most were positive, but two negative ones caught my attention, along with the associated comments, one by Mike Gross and another by Christop..."

I read those reviews as well whilst trying to organise my own thoughts about the book Lily - the comments are food for thought especially as I really enjoyed the novel and didn't think about any of this whilst reading it - I was enjoying the writing and storytelling and how the different narrative strands and characters lives ended up interconnecting which was the main thing I took away from the story. But it's definitely an interesting point.

[Angie]

I just finished the book today (joined the group last week!), and wanted to jump into the conversation. The overall arc of the story was great -- centering it on a moment when New York was looking up at the towers, tying it to a separate but co-incidental (literally) tragedy. Finding a way to bind the characters together after the crash. It was a fantastic read.

One of the things I really enjoyed was what I think someone above called "embedded spoilers". They're there and comforting in a way. At Jazzlyn's funeral, when Tillie is asking about the kids, it's somehow clear (how? I don't remember) that the woman on Ciaran bumped to in the elevator must have stepped in -- when she visits Tillie in prison she's recognizable. But still in the background.

The most puzzling one to me was the hackers at PARC. Clearly Marcia though the walker was her boy somehow calling to say hello, and the boys at PARC (where Claire's son worked before he shipped out) were literally calling a payphone to find out what was going on. I'm not entirely sure what that said -- it was an out of place chapter, I thought. But somehow it felt right. Made it more of a national event, and linked the tight rope to the line between life and death.

[Lily]

Angie wrote: "...the boys at PARC (where Claire's son worked before he shipped out) were literally calling a payphone to find out what was going on. I'm not entirely sure what that said -- it was an out of place chapter, I thought. ..."

Others have said the same. It did rather jar and matched with Corum's statements that he fit together a number of short stories as he composed this, some of which he had to abandon. Maybe this should have been one of those. The Joshua link was the one I perceived later -- just as Marcia saw her son in the air, Claire's son might have been one of those payphone phreaks if he had lived. Also, as Deborah reminded us, there was no CNN/24 hour news yet, so it provided another example of the shift in communications that had started but accelerated so much by 9/11. So, as you said, the story kinda jarred and it kinda fit. Had sorta the same reactions to the subway graffiti story.

[Terry]

In a strange kind of way, I see jarring as fitting, if we're talking about a story that somewhat personifies New York. I've never been there, but I get the sense that neatness, 'pat'ness, is not one of its qualities... the sprawl that chapters like these give to the story in some sense mirrors my perception of the city itself.

[Lily]

Terry wrote: "In a strange kind of way, I see jarring as fitting, if we're talking about a story that somewhat personifies New York. I've never been there, but I get the sense that neatness, 'pat'ness, is not on..."

Hmmm! Trying to consider if "jarring" is more or less applicable to NYC than to any great city -- London, Paris, Montreal, Chicago, Mexico City, Los Angles, .... Certainly I could understand that reaction by some and certainly elements are "jarring," but it still not a word I would choose to describe the City. Diverse, a city of contrasts, including abject depravity and soaring odes to commerce, to wealth, to vitality. The layout of Manhattan on a grid, surrounding Central Park. Sprawling away to its Burroughs. Yes, jarring, if that's what one chooses to see or feel, especially perhaps on first encounters. But more just the Big Apple, with all the overtones of both good and evil that symbol can imply, as well as 21st century kitsch and modernity. Like Amsterdam, its ancestor, a secular, commercial city. Even so, its many houses of worship are probably more vibrant than Amsterdam, despite congregations lost to skepticism or suburbs. Its skyscrapers may soar, its public spaces invigorate, its museums inspire, its poorer regions...well, yes, jar.

[Terry]

All I really mean is the contrasts you talk about, and how many of them meet and can be seen side by side. In any city when such happens it can seem jarring. My impression is that it happens in New York more than in many places, but as I say I've never been there.