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The Widow's House (The Dagger and the Coin, #4)
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The Dagger and Coin > TWH: Section 2: 3rd Marcus - 6th Clara

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message 1: by Lindsay (last edited Nov 12, 2015 05:41PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lindsay | 546 comments Please keep all discussion to the events and speculation from this section. Please do not discuss events from later chapters. Referring back to events from a previous section/book is fine.

No spoiler tags required. Though it would be highly appreciated if you uncheck "Add to my Update Feed" to avoid accidentally spoiling this for your goodreads friends.

This section covers the 3rd Marcus chapter through to the 6th Clara chapter. The first sentences of the section are:

The birds announced the dawn before the light came, trilling and calling to one another as if unaware that one of the fallen masters of the world had returned from legend to sleep in the ruined inn’s yard. Or if not unaware, unimpressed. Marcus had stayed up the full night, waiting.


Suzanne | 1582 comments This ended up being a great section division because with the return of Inys, the world changed.

I would imagine travel by dragon would be absolutely miserable - so cold! And scary.

So Gedar in the book so far. I know hes an awful, evil man. Yet he is often so sympathetic. Its hard to reconcile.


message 3: by Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 6375 comments Mod
Gedar is a really well written character..


Suzanne | 1582 comments Yeah he has really spoiled me for 2-dimensional bad guys.


Lindsay | 546 comments This is a very sad day to reflect that people who see belief and truth to be the same thing are tools meant to destroy the world.


Scott M Sizer | 12 comments Lindsay wrote: "This is a very sad day to reflect that people who see belief and truth to be the same thing are tools meant to destroy the world."

Well said,


Suzanne | 1582 comments So true. Very very sad.


Lindsay | 546 comments In this section Marcus gets to deal with a hungover dragon, and the fact that there is a dragon becomes pretty widely known. Marcus gets an explanation of what the spiders are: the last weapon of Morade in the War of the Dragons. There's this:
“A corruption to drive our slaves to slaughter one another. To disrupt all the patterns that we had come to rely upon. It made their minds brittle and caught them in a dream that fractured them. We didn’t see. I didn’t see. The corruption spread unnoticed, and then it shattered. They killed each other over nothing. Over the colors of their shirts or their eyes, whether they drank before they ate or ate before they drank. Whether they ate beef or fowl. Anything became a pretext for murder.”

Then Marcus and the acting troupe go for a trip via dragon.

Geder's people take the news of a dragon flying over well, and Geder launches into actually useful action by recalling anti-dragon weaponry in one of his books and using the books as design templates for a host of weapons for his army. Sabiha is having a rough time with the birth of her baby daughter and Geder steps in. Miraculously, this is a good thing. and both mother and baby survive. Geder is still nuts though, and when he holds the baby later Sabiha looks scared of him (she's a sensible one). It's at this point that Basrahip reveals that he has to leave to deal with an apostate in the city of Kaltfel. This is timely considering Inys's warning about the faith shattering.

Meanwhile in Porte Olivia the blockade is broken by an attack from a group of pirates, and their actions force Lord Skestinin to surrender. Apparently the pirates had been becoming organized under the auspices of a new leader who seems to be anti-Antean. This turns out to be Barriath Kalliam, Clara's eldest son who was banished. Marcus and his crew arrive soon after with Inys making a grand and terrifying entrance.

Clara is still following the Antean army that Jorey is leading and witnesses the first battle with the forces of Birancour, the country that Porte Olivia is in. The Anteans, exhausted, but battle-hardened veterans, make short work of the Birancour forces and the army marches on towards Porte Olivia.


Suzanne | 1582 comments At this point in the book, I had a hard time seeing how Clara's following the army helped her cause. It didn't seem as if communication would be easy, or that she could really observe something of value.

When Geder was helping with the birth, it was a perfect illustration - he seemed so nice and compassionate many times, then bam "they both live or I'll kill you all!" Also, coming up with the anti-dragon weapons was such a perfect Geder thing to do - the scholar at work.


Lindsay | 546 comments One thing I didn't pick up until I was skimming the book again for my summaries was that Clara didn't want to stay in Antea because she felt sure that she'd be caught. So a good portion of why she's following the army is as cover.


message 11: by Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 6375 comments Mod
Suzanne wrote: "When Geder was helping with the birth, it was a perfect illustration - he seemed so nice and compassionate many times, then bam "they both live or I'll kill you all!""

Good ol' Geder..


Suzanne | 1582 comments Oh good call - being caught is definitely a valid reason to leave the city - and makes sense since she just discovered that she (and anyone who is helping her) cannot directly lie to the priests.


message 13: by Bill (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bill | 1596 comments Gedar around Sabiha and the baby makes me so nervous. In my mind I was just running through all the terrible things that can come out of it.

I completely forgot about Barriath but totally made sense in hindsight.


Teanka | 134 comments Suzanne wrote: "At this point in the book, I had a hard time seeing how Clara's following the army helped her cause. It didn't seem as if communication would be easy, or that she could really observe something of value"

That's exactly how I felt, too. I know she feared that she'd be caught in Camnipol, however it's a bit disappointing that her reports are not sent to Cithrin but to Paerin Clark instead so serve barely any purpose so far. I know her being with the army is bound to have some importance in the story, but in the meantime, it's a bit frustrating. Especially the part about Kit and Marcus having searched for her and not being able to make a contact. There was also a chapter which ended with Clara seeing Ines. What a pity she never met him.

When I read about Geder, I see a psychopath and I'm stunned by his egotism. If possible, for me he is less sympathetic because he finds a self explanation for every one of his actions. I'm pretty sure every tyrant finds a plenty of excuses for his actions, but I prefer them to be cynical than falsely naive. I agree that his character is nicely portrayed, it's just I dislike him a lot and don't accept that his qualities (as a scholar, for instance) are redeeming in any way. To me, they actually make it worse because he should be able to use his brains and he never makes the effort, allowing his inferiority complex to rule him.

I'm very happy to see at least one of Dawson and Clara's sons on the right side of the war.


message 15: by Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 6375 comments Mod
I don't think anything about Gedar is meant to redeem him, or that youre supposed to like him at this point in the story. I liked him at the start, but as he became corrupted by his increasing power and pettiness, I lost all sympathy.

As a villian though, I think he's excellent. He probably shares characteristics with the reader. In particular, his love of books and (for me at least) the self esteem issues.

I think that makes him that much more infuriating. I saw a bit of myself in him and I'd like to think I wouldn't be that awful.


Teanka | 134 comments Oh yes, I definitely agree with what you've written, Rob. Seen from his perspective, Geder is an ordinary person. And we all have to believe that we'd do better in his place. It's especially sad knowing what other people (like Cithrin, or Jorey, or Sabiha )think about him and then to see how he mistakes their actions for something else. He genuinely believes that he is a great friend to Sabiha and her husband, and imagine the fright that seeing him must have produced in her! She was repulsed, and it showed on her face, and Geder thought it was just a nightmare she was having. At this point, only Aster genuinely cares about Geder.


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