Kaufman, Amie & Kristoff, Jay - Illuminae (The Illuminae Files #1) - Informal Buddy Read; Start November 21, 2015

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This topic is open for discussion about Illuminae by Amie Kaufman



Book synopsis:
This morning, Kady thought breaking up with Ezra was the hardest thing she’d have to do.

This afternoon, her planet was invaded.

The year is 2575, and two rival megacorporations are at war over a planet that’s little more than an ice-covered speck at the edge of the universe. Too bad nobody thought to warn the people living on it. With enemy fire raining down on them, Kady and Ezra—who are barely even talking to each other—are forced to fight their way onto an evacuating fleet, with an enemy warship in hot pursuit.

But their problems are just getting started. A deadly plague has broken out and is mutating, with terrifying results; the fleet's AI, which should be protecting them, may actually be their enemy; and nobody in charge will say what’s really going on. As Kady hacks into a tangled web of data to find the truth, it's clear only one person can help her bring it all to light: the ex-boyfriend she swore she'd never speak to again.

Told through a fascinating dossier of hacked documents—including emails, schematics, military files, IMs, medical reports, interviews, and more—Illuminae is the first book in a heart-stopping, high-octane trilogy about lives interrupted, the price of truth, and the courage of everyday heroes.

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[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I have this book on hold at the library, but I won't get it this month I think :(

[Emily]

Bummer! (I gave in and bought a copy of this one, which I don't do very often.) Well, feel free to come post once you get a chance to read it; I'll discuss it with you later on :)

[Vidabel (Solitude_Books_Magic)]

My copy doesn't arrive for another week and change :(.. Hope once I get it I'll be able to jump in and join in the discussion with everyone else

[Emily]

Sure, Vidabel!

[Brianna]

I would love to read this with you guys. The copy I requested from the library will be ready for me to pick up Friday, so I'll be able to start it on the 21st

[Emily]

Cool, Brianna! I'm really looking forward to it.

[Sully]

Right off the bat (I'm just on the first page), the tone of this book feels off. This is a 600 page report to the Executive Director of what I assume is one of the megacorporations. And the author of this email/cover letter acts like he/she is just making snarky comments to a friend. That strikes me as very odd and extremely unprofessional. But perhaps everyone is that informal eons into the future.

Anyway, off to continue! =)

[Emily]

I agree that the tone of the first page struck me as strange. I wonder if this Illuminae Group has so much leverage over their employer because of their level of skill and because of all this information they discovered that they are able to take liberties.


Up to Pg. 64

I'm having mixed feelings about the different format so far. I'm really glad I got a physical copy so I could fully appreciate it. On the one hand, it's very original and different, which is great, and it's nice to have additional information to which the main characters wouldn't have access. It also works well for moving quickly through time. I'm not sure this story would have worked if done traditionally from Kady and Ezra's perspectives, but this format is also pretty impersonal (so far). It provides lots of extra details about the ships and such, but less of what I want to know about the characters, their backgrounds, and their reactions and what life is like in 2575. I have some sense of Ezra, enough to like him, but I think I'd REALLY like him if I'd had more of a chance to hear from him directly and connect with him over his feelings about the breakup and the loss of his father and through his sense of humor. As for Kady, she's come across as a bit of a jerk to me, but that probably wouldn't be the case if I knew more what was going on with her. The plot is great, but I'm not really feeling the tension because of the distance from the characters the documents give. I'd rather have heard about the initial attack in real time, instead of after the fact and filtered through an interview. So overall, I'm not sure yet. I think maybe a mix of documents and traditional POVs might have been the way to go, but I can definitely still be convinced of this format.

This might mean nothing, but in the Unipedia article on pg. 26, it lists some statistics about Kerenza IV. I looked up Earth's Wikipedia page to get some sense of comparison, and the mean, equatorial, and polar radii are EXACTLY the same. (The composition percentages are slightly different, though.) Seems like a weird coincidence to me...

Can I just say that geeball strikes me as like the stupidest word I have ever heard. It seems both silly and mildly insulting/dirty at the same time. Sorry, totally random :-)

[Sully]

Up to Page 89

I am actually really digging the formatting of the novel so far. It feels like a bit of a puzzle, since you are putting together the information given and having to fill in the blanks in the story. It reminds me quite a bit of World War Z, which I throughly enjoyed (have you read it? It's zombies, but I don't remember it being too graphic as it is told through interviews and information collected after the fact of the events that happened).

The issue I have so far is with the writing itself encased in the formatting. I realize it is a young adult novel, but the bone I picked with the cover letter to start with hasn't gotten much better. Even classified letters from military people are written like a teenager talking, and it's been bugging me the whole time. I think the young adult level needs to be limited to the interactions between the young adults, and that Kaufman and Kristoff could have stepped up the quality of the writing quite a bit for all the government and inter-ship inclusions.

I do agree that the formatting leads it to be less engaging with the characters, but that honestly hasn't bothered me so far (I'm more interested in the sci-fi than the romance between Kady and Ezra). In fact, the romance between them seems kind of silly, especially early on (maybe it will grow on me as we get further into the story). If the world were literally ending around me, I think the last thing I would be focusing on would be bickering with my ex-boyfriend (who I only dated for a year). The whole first part with them fighting and whatnot as the planet is bombed to death really bugged me. I am definitely digging the plot so far though, and am (view spoiler)[quite terrified that the AI system went all HAL and blew up their own ship (hide spoiler)].

I think it would make sense that once we had the technology to make wormholes and travel through space, we would seek out planets similar to Earth (although why they were on an icy, frozen planet is a little weird. There are millions of planets out there, so it seems like they might pick one a little less frozen for mining, unless it was its location in conjunction with the megacorp's other mining locations).

A lot of the dialogue/dialect in this futuristic world is a little annoying; geeball is a great example. As someone who always makes sure I have proper grammar and punctuation when I send emails and texts, the comm dialogues and emails are super annoying to me (that might just be my grouchiness towards the way teenagers are these days though lol)

[Brianna]

I'm up to page 26, I had to go back to the beginning once I got to page 19 as I was super confused. After starting over, I actually like the formatting of this novel. We get to see things that the main characters don't know, however it can be confusing to me sometimes. I took a few classes that dealt with case law, so I'm used to reading reports and different files. I think that is what makes me like this book right now; it makes me feel like I'm back in that class reading some exciting case file about something that happened. Although I must say I'm glad there are no dead body photos so far and I hope there are none later.

[Brianna]

I just finished reading Mason's account of the Copernicus incident and then the Populace Information Release Hypatia.

How did this make all of you feel? I couldn't believe it. I mean I know this is a fictional story, but man it makes you kind of rethink things you've been told in the news in reality.

[Emily]

I agree that the writing is too juvenile in parts. I've thought some things have been well done (Ezra's report of (view spoiler)[the Copernicus incident (hide spoiler)] for example), but other parts could have been better written (the initial interviews)- with a bit better writing I might not have any problem with the format, I don't know. It is fun in a puzzle kind of way (I've never read a case file, but figure that is a similar kind of challenge). You had suggested World War Z to me, Elise, if I ever decided to try a zombie book, but I haven't read it yet.

I'm up to page 100 now, and the IMs between Ezra and his friend James are absolutely driving me nuts. I also try to have proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. no matter what I'm typing, so it's very annoying. I can get over punctuation and capitalization in IMs, but it would be really nice if the characters at least used proper grammar and didn't leave out words.

I also agree that the fact that Kady and Ezra fought in the midst of trying to escape seemed incredibly immature and a little crazy. Maybe it was just due to the stress and fear of the situation, but still. It's one of the things that made me not really a fan of Kady.


Brianna- It is frightening to think about the "spin" the government/those in positions of authority might be putting on events and about what they might not be telling us. I don't think the U.S. government and those like it would go so far as to lie outright to the degree the Captain of the Hypatia does in the Populace Information Release in this book, but maybe that's naive. It's why a system and society that keeps those in power accountable is important.

However, (view spoiler)[I can sort of see the side of the ships' captains in keeping AIDAN's issues a secret. They are on an enclosed ship with no available aid. They need the ships' populace working together, not panicked and turning on each other. On the other hand, the people have a right to know. I don't know what I would do in the captains' position, although I certainly wouldn't go as far as they do to keep what really happened a secret. (hide spoiler)] What would you guys do?

[Sully]

Brianna wrote: "I just finished reading Mason's account of the Copernicus incident and then the Populace Information Release Hypatia.

How did this make all of you feel? I couldn't believe it. I mean I know this is a fictional story, but man it makes you kind of rethink things you've been told in the news in reality. "

Perhaps I am a bit jaded/pessimistic, but I can almost totally believe something like that could happen. It's a different kind of scenario, but look at the whole thing with Area 51. The government almost loves for people to claim they saw UFOs, because they want to keep secret the type of technology and weapons they are developing out there. There are so many levels of secretary in this country that I wouldn't be surprised if something like this cover up happened here eventually/has already happened.

Have you seen Battlestar Galactica (the revamp)? This book reminds me of it a LOT, even down to some of the terminology (most notably, the stems the pilots take - that is a plot point taken directly from a few BSG episodes). There is a whole conspiracy in that show over a government election on board that is covered up and kept hushed hushed, which reminds me of this situation with the AI.


Emily wrote: "I'm up to page 100 now, and the IMs between Ezra and his friend James are absolutely driving me nuts. I also try to have proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. no matter what I'm typing, so it's very annoying. I can get over punctuation and capitalization in IMs, but it would be really nice if the characters at least used proper grammar and didn't leave out words."

Yeah, these IMs, plus the ones between Kady and Ezra and Kady and the other hacker are the hardest parts for me to stomach. For one, all the blacked out cursing is kind of annoying. I would like to think that in 560 years, profanities will have evolved some, just as they have in the past 560 years. Reading the blacked out bits, 95% of the time my mind can automatically fill in the blanks with words we use everything. Of course, this might just be the writers trying to make the language easier on the readers. After all, if "geeball" is any sign, it would be even harder to read if they tried to take into account the development of a language over the centuries. As for the James/Jimmy and Ezra IMs, if I have to hear one more stupid quip about Ezra doing James's sister or James's jerking off to Kady's photo... argh. It adds absolutely nothing to the plot and is just massively annoying now coupled with the terrible grammar.

I'm up to page 156 now (part of the Phobos reports) and while some of the reports between the ships' commanders and medical teams/etc. have gotten a little better in terms of matching the level of writing to the age group and professions being represented, there still seems to be one or two lines in each one that kind of ruins the whole passage for me. For example, on the Copernicus report I am reading now, the doctor, in an official medical report, writes "however, one of the assistants (Jane, lovely girl) dropped an entire batch of...". And I realize that it's probably the authors' attempt at adding a little humor to the writing, but it just screams unprofessionalism to me and shatters the illusion that these could be real.


Emily wrote: "However, (view spoiler) What would you guys do? "

I would tell anyone with an ounce of technological background, as they clearly (view spoiler)[need to find a way to limit the capacities built into the AI's programming. Although, to be honest, I'm not sure I'm one to believe the AI's will ever become "self-aware" and start to be able to override their programming and take over ships and orders, etc. But it could be possible, the way technology advances these days. I certainly wouldn't have killed the pilots that saved the survivors, just to cover my skin. That was messed up. (hide spoiler)]


Oh, and have you guys seen The Wire? James/Jimmy McNulty seems to have almost the exact same characteristics as his namesake in the show.

[Emily]

Up to Pg. 156

The authors definitely try to add in some element of personality or personal details to all the reports and such, which is sometimes successful in my opinion and sometimes just ridiculous and unrealistic. For example, would the guy who writes the transcripts of the surveillance videos really include so much commentary on what he sees happening? I highly doubt it, but at the same time, it is far more interesting to read than dry, professional accounts of what the videos show. I think in that case I prefer having the personality included, but the authors aren't successful in hitting the right note every time, IMO.

I wonder if that comment that Jane is a lovely girl is somehow a hint (view spoiler)[that the doctor writing the report is infected with Phobos himself. (hide spoiler)]
Check out the name of the patient on the side of the chart on page 156- Laini Taylor (my favorite author- author of the Daughter of Smoke and Bone trilogy). With that and Jimmy McNulty (I've never seen The Wire), the authors seem to have included some little popular culture shout outs. I also know that the name of at least one popular booktuber is included in the list of (view spoiler)[casualties from the Copernicus. (hide spoiler)]

I agree that the blacked out cursing is annoying, and I would have preferred it to be used more sparingly. For all we know, though, the words under the black could be different from the ones we use now, but there are only so many meanings for a curse word to have- thus our ability to replace them with common words we use now. (Just playing devil's advocate).
The dirty jokes between the boys are just unnecessary. I'm very tired of it. It's probably not an unrealistic portrayal of how teenage boys talk to each other, but that doesn't mean the authors needed to keep including gross references.

I don't think I necessarily believe that true artificial intelligence is possible, thus no (view spoiler)[evil, killer computers or robots who learn how to love, as are popular tropes. (hide spoiler)] But it's a fun plot element for sci-fi stories.

[Emily]

Up to Page 201

I'm enjoying this, but it's a rather passive enjoyment, if you know what I mean. It's a nice, "kick-back, enjoy the ride, and see where the story goes" book for me right now, NOT an "I love it and must know what happens next immediately, and the characters must survive and get together!" book.

Kady still feels a little underdeveloped to me, and Ezra has been getting on my nerves more than he has been charming me lately. Their (view spoiler)[rushed IM interactions (hide spoiler)] have definitely not sold me on their romance. I'm feeling almost no sparks.

The sci-fi tropes of (view spoiler)[an evil AI and an awful, mutating virus (hide spoiler)] are not maybe the most original, so haven't fully drawn me in.

[Emily]

Up to Page 292

They keep using the term "gen" to refer to information, and it's really bugging me that I can't figure out the origin of the term. Help me out?

I don't really understand what's going on in (view spoiler)[General Torrence's head, but whatever it is, I don't like it. Part of it is probably that I've never understood the military mindset. I get to some degree why it's necessary in theory, but I could never follow orders blindly when people's lives were involved or expect others to. But I think most of it is that he's just a bad and dangerous leader. (hide spoiler)]

Ezra's immaturity really drove me nuts when (view spoiler)[Dorian says his lover is in the "hole" and Ezra's first reaction is to congratulate him on having sex with her. (hide spoiler)] Like get your mind out of the gutter and on what's important, Ezra! I expect more from an 18-year-old MC whom I'm supposed to respect.

Kady has a lot of serious faults to my mind that the authors seem to want the reader to view as good things. She (view spoiler)[has a sense of paranoia, thinking that almost everyone else is evil and incompetent. She thinks she's the only one who can save everyone. (It turns out she's right in that she was necessary to them fighting off the Lincoln, but that's not really the point.) She has to know everything and be in control. I totally understand why Ezra got angry at her on page 215. It bugs me she got out of it so easily by telling him her mother had been on Copernicus. I think it's good to question authority, but if I were her, I would have been trying to work within the system more to help, not felt like I could only work outside of it. One thing I don't fully understand is why did she hide her intelligence and programming skills from the UTA at the beginning? I would have wanted to do my part and help the fleet survive, despite the fact that being conscripted would be awful. I guess she didn't want to be separated from her mother, though, which I get. (hide spoiler)]

What do you guys think of Byron's character and the quote: "The man dies in all who keep silent in the face of tyranny"?

I wish (view spoiler)[the "logic bomb" had been explained a bit more thoroughly for those readers like me who aren't computer savvy. Maybe I'm just being stupid or missed something, but specifically, I don't understand the way in which Ezra shot the "bomb" into the Lincoln's computer system. Was it something physical or just a wireless signal? (hide spoiler)]

I was hoping (view spoiler)[to find things more riveting once AIDAN was restarted, but so far I haven't found its thoughts that fascinating. A lot of this is probably again that I don't know much about computers, coding, or AI because I was never very interested. I'm still only halfway, though, so there's still time for the exploration of AIDAN to win me over. (hide spoiler)]

I have a prediction that (view spoiler)[Ezra's mom might be Executive Director Frobisher, the person for whom this whole report was compiled. In any case, I think she's going to be crucial, although maybe not till later books in the series. (hide spoiler)]

[Sully]

Up to page 263 (I really wanted to binge this week, but I'm stuck working until Thanksgiving, booooooo lol)

I agree that the authors are writing to write some personality into the characters/novel through "inorganic" means by adding stuff to the Illuminae files that people probably wouldn't have said/written otherwise. As a super science nerd, and in this particular case where I don't really connect with the characters - and where the two main characters kindda annoy me - I think I would actually prefer to have just the information/sci-fi part of the story instead of the love entanglement between the main two characters and the hints of romance between the side characters.

I think the only relationship I was actually interested in exploring was the interactions between Kady and her mom, and well... that was a let down lol.

I didn't notice Laini Taylor! That's cool =) I've found myself skimming a bit over parts that don't seem to contribute much to the plot, and I skipped all the pages of the list of names to be honest (whoops!)

You are probably spot on about the subject matter James and Ezra discuss, but I also completely agree that I don't feel the need for it here. I don't hang out with teenage boys, so I don't know what they talk about to fill the time, but I'm sure I also don't want to lol. I've worked with enough mechanics to know a lot of that stuff could be better off left unsaid IMHO.

I haven't been drawn in by the AI element of the plot, but I'm definitely interested to see how (view spoiler)[Kady's and Zhang's plan to basically overload the drive on the intercepting ship is going to go (hide spoiler)]. I wish the story would focus more on than that Kady and Ezra, because I agree that everything between them has been completely lackluster and unconvincing.

What would you have done if you had been in the Hypatia's situation? The letter from the command to the crew and civilians on the ship regarding their situation/decision was one of the only pieces of this novel that I thought was really well done. And it is such a great question on morality, but I think they made the right decision.

[Emily]

Sorry you're stuck working! I'll slow down a bit :)

I didn't read through all the names either, the booktuber had just said in the video review she did for this book that she was on there. (She really liked it.)

In the Hypatia's situation, TBH, I think I would have left the Alexander. (view spoiler)[Since the command didn't know about Kady, I'm not sure there was any more they thought they could do to help the Alexander survive. My understanding is that the Hypatia didn't really have the capabilities to help the Alexander fight off the Lincoln. And between AIDAN having destroyed the Copernicus, the Alexander slowing the Hypatia down, the potential for those sick with Phobos on-board the Alexander to break out, General Torrence's attitude, etc, I think the Alexander presents a great threat to the Hypatia. So in theory, staying wouldn't help those aboard the Lincoln, and leaving would be better for those aboard the Hypatia. However, it would have been a really difficult decision, and I also understand why the Hypatia command chose to stay with the Alexander- sticking together is usually a good strategy, and the Alexander did end up providing protection against the Lincoln. And obviously, it would probably be a less interesting book if they had split up. (hide spoiler)]

[Sully]

Up to pg 309

Work isn't too bad (especially since it pays for my ridiculous Black Friday addiction hahaha) =)

I'm finding it harder and harder to get through this book. Kind of like what we were talking about before, where the authors' put a little more detail/imagery into the emails/IMs/reports/briefs than you would expect to find in order to paint the scene, I really just saw this with (view spoiler)[AIDAN's internal thoughts when they bring him back online to fight off the upcoming ship and throw the confusion bomb at their drives. I almost laughed aloud at some of the stuff included as it just seems absurd that a computer - AI or not - would even come close to "thinking" about it. Stuff like "Eyes bright. Fingers curled." Why would an AI system feel the need to describe that?

The other thing that got me is that it feels like a complete rip off of 2001 Space Odessey, even down to the AI (AIDAN versus Hal) talking to the person named David/Dave. (hide spoiler)] I've found a lot of pop culture references/borrowed ideas it feels like, which is starting to take away from the originality of the story in my eyes.

I thought I was going to like this section better because they are pretty much going into battle, (view spoiler)[but even the AI computers seem obsessed with Ezra's and Kady's romance, and that really irked me (hide spoiler)]. I liked the page where the text was laid out for the radio chatter for each Cyclone pilot in the shape of a ship in what looked like where they would be positioned when they got sent out. That was really cool! I wasn't as fond though when they carried it on into more random seeming configurations, though (the sun rays one was particularly hard to read).

I still really like the premise behind this story and I have to give the authors mad props for such an unique style to it, but I'm still finding a lot of faults in the execution =(

It does seem like the plot is going to get action up for the time being though, so I have my fingers crossed for that! And I am just thankful I will never wind up in this kind of situation in my lifetime!

[Emily]

I agree that I think they made (view spoiler)[AIDAN too human. I know that's kind of the point, but I would have preferred a gradual transition maybe from more robot-like to more human-like. While AIDAN's descriptions and references to literature and stuff are pretty and nice for imagining things, they're not very realistic.
I haven't even seen 2001: A Space Odessey or much sci-fi in general, but even I can tell many of the ideas are recycled as you put it. They're whole take on zombies is a little different, but ultimately still zombies. (hide spoiler)]

The weird configurations of the words during (view spoiler)[the battle with the Lincoln (hide spoiler)] were very cool, but yes, a bit difficult to read sometimes. It's what makes this book original, so I liked it, but wouldn't want it in every book.


Up to Page 356

Ok, (view spoiler)[well things have certainly gotten action-packed, complicated, and messed up fast. Things are not looking good for our characters! On the one hand, I'm more sucked in and not paying as much attention to the faults we've discussed. On the other hand, it's been quite a bit of violence and death. Maybe it's that there isn't as much human element to offset that, maybe it's that it's basically zombies, but it's bothering me more than it usually would. (hide spoiler)]

[Sully]

Up to Page 353

Oh my dang, what just happened! So messed up. Not all that surprised that Syra did it, but shocking nonetheless. Even though I could kind of see it coming the page before, it still left me speechless!

With reference to the poem by Walt Whitman (who was a Terran president?) and considering that this book takes place over 500 years in the future, do you think any classics we like today would survive that far into the future? Do you think anyone/anything in today's era would be considered classical 500 years down the road?

[Emily]

I know! (view spoiler)[Poor Chatter! :( (hide spoiler)]

I went back and looked and what she actually says about Oh Captain! My Captain! is that it's ABOUT an old Terran president. Wikipedia says it's actually an extended metaphor about Abraham Lincoln's assasination. See, this is why I'm not fond of poetry. I looked the poem up and read it when it was mentioned (confession: I didn't know it was a poem, just knew the lines from the movie Dead Poets Society), and thought it was pretty and plenty meaningful. But I got nothing about Lincoln- why do poems always have to be so hard to understand? Sorry, complaint over. I did REALLY love all the parts from poems stuck together in the heart shape (pg. 256), though.

It's depressing to think that books in general and in any format might fade away over that long a period into the future, as technology and visual mediums continue to replace them. I think certain things, like Shakespeare, will have survived because they've become so engrained in our culture. I hope Jane Austen and Harry Potter continue as/ become classics. Some books hopefully will because of their important messages (1984, Brave New World, Tale of Two Cities). Other series that have been extremely popular in recent times (Twilight, Hunger Games) I don't think deserve to stand the test of time (despite the fact I enjoyed them).
But I wonder if what will persist to become classic is more movies and TV shows- far more people watch those than read already. I'm not enough of a buff of either of those to know what will last, but I hope the original Star Wars and Back to the Future and its sequels.
I doubt many people today or in the past will be remembered- there will be so much more history more recent and significant to people 500 years in the future that ours. Maybe a few scientific geniuses- Einstein, Turing, Hawking, etc.
How would you answer your question?

And I meant to say in my last post: except for wishing for more advanced health care, I would have no desire to live in the future either. I'm concerned things will get more difficult and complicated in some ways for future generations, even before throwing in space travel on a massive scale.

[Emily]

I mentioned this quote in post 19, but I keep thinking about Byron's motto: "The man dies in all who keep silent in the face of tyranny."

On the one hand, it's similar to the quote: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." And I fully agree with that sentiment. The problem with both quotes, however, is that they could be used to excuse actions just as bad as those of the "tyranny" or "evil." The problem with Byron's quote is that it seems to promote even ineffectual and fairly pointless acts of rebellion, which can be detrimental. For example, Byron (view spoiler)[is essentially responsible for Captain Chau's death because he resisted being taken to the Alexander, which didn't end up having any good repercussions. (hide spoiler)]

Do you have any thoughts? Do you agree with the quote?

[Sully]

Up to page 405

Just have to say that the "photo" on this page is pretty cool. On one hand, I'd almost rather not know what the characters look like, since I never seen to visualize what they look like correctly. But this is really cool.

Yeah, I must have been tired when I read/wrote that. I've actually heard part of that poem before/knew it was about Lincoln thanks to an episode of Full House (where Uncle Jesse had to learn it for his GED class). But I never would have interpreted it to mean the same thing. I like to write poetry because of its inherit ambiguity. You can write something that has a particular meaning to you, and 10 other people can read it and all draw different meanings from it. I think it's kind of eloquent. But I never liked studying it in school, and having people try to tell me what it means.

In all honesty, I completely skipped over the heart page O=)

I doubt Harry Potter while survive the eons; and Hunger Games and Twilight will definitely fade out as well. I have a feeling that most series won't stand the test of time, but there might be a few stand alone novels from this generation that might make it. I agree that there won't be many from this generation that are remembered. Probably Hawking, Sagan, and maybe Neil deGrase Tyson and whoever makes the next big discovery in multi-verses/string theory/etc.

It's kind of hard to imagine if any TV shows and movies will make it 500 years from now. After all, that technology (unlike the written word) has not even been along nearly that long yet. Perhaps a few of the earlier works when the technology was first development, and maybe one or two from when the big technology leaps were made (like the original Star Wars, and maybe Avatar - but probably not that one).

I like Byron's quote. It definitely applies to his character. In a way, it is kind of the inner logic behind AIDAN too, no? Ironically, of course, since (view spoiler)[AIDAN is basically the tyranny suppressing and killing them all (hide spoiler)]. Which I think goes to your point that it can be twisted to excuse actions just as bad. (view spoiler)[That's exactly what AIDAN is doing and using as his excuses (hide spoiler)]. I think the progress in our own, highly developed society would still be much quicker if we didn't just sit idly by and let injustices continue. On one hand, I'm a bit of a believer on "live and let live", but it kind of has the same duality that you mention with the quote above. You can live and let live, but at the same time, if you see an injustice being done, you shouldn't just sweep it under the rug because it doesn't affect you.

Hope that all makes sense. Only running on a few hours of sleep today lol.

The AIDAN inner core files are still irking me a bit, but the plot is still keeping a high pace of action, even if the (view spoiler)[romance is continuing on steadily as well (hide spoiler)]. Side note, I'm watching the latest Terminator movie right now (would not recommend lol), and it seems fitting since the whole plot behind the series is the evil Skynet becoming self aware and trying to kill off people.

[Emily]

Up to Page 405

One thing that I didn't thing was well explained was why (view spoiler)[AIDAN decided to allow those affected with Phobos to kill or infect EVERYONE on the Alexander. I understand that it chose to kill off the officers in command and the comtech staff because they could shut it down, but then all of a sudden everyone on the ship is dying. Did the Phobos get in the air supply and circulate? In that case, AIDAN would have known that was going to happen and could probably have found a different way to kill those it wanted dead. Or did AIDAN release the doors to allow those affected with Phobos to get to the rest of the passengers? Either way, why kill everyone? Is AIDAN just insane because of the damage done to it? If so, I would have found it more interesting if the authors had decided to have it think logically, just in a very messed up way, instead. Or is it just so preoccupied with staying "alive" that it was willing to kill everyone to make sure? In that case, I could have used a bit more insight into AIDAN's thought process. Or maybe Byron did enough damage to AIDAN that it couldn't keep the afflicted from escaping into the rest of the ship? (hide spoiler)] In any case, as I'm sure you can tell, I'm very confused.

The "photo" is really awesome. My brain doesn't tend to come up with super specific images of what characters look like to begin with- things like race and hair color, yes, but their faces are usually pretty blurred and changeable in my mind- and this book didn't really give us any descriptions for the most part that I can remember to go off of, so my image of Kady was extremely vague. It would actually be kind of cool to me if authors were to work with artists to create drawings or whatever of how they imagined the characters and put them at the beginning of books. But I guess it's like what you said about poetry and interpretation- it's great how everyone can imagine characters slightly differently.

That's so amazing that you write poetry as well! The fact that different people can take different things away from it is something wonderful about all art- including even novels, although to a lesser extent. Some poetry can just get so hard to interpret that it takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me personally. And of course, the whole idea that they promote in school that there is only one correct (and often obscure) interpretation kind of defeats the point IMHO.

Your insight into AIDAN's thought process and Byron's quote is excellent and is really making me think more.
I agree with what you said. I also believe in "live and let live" in many circumstances. The problem becomes when someone decides that it's his or her right to encroach on someone else's rights, as is essentially the basis of most injustice. Then it's necessary for a third party to step in to restore balance.

Is it horrible that I've never seen any of the Terminator movies? ;)

[Sully]

Finished (I binged the rest on our road trip for Thanksgiving) Happy Thanksgiving!


Yeah, that didn't make much sense to me either. I don't know if it was just for suspense/shock and awe, or if the authors tried to explain it and I just glazed over (I think later on it's touched on, but I still didn't like the explanation).

The Terminator movies aren't that great (I didn't like the new one at all). Too many paradoxes when dealing with the time travel fundamental to the plot IMO.

So I made notes on my phone while in the car, so I'm going to split them out by progress to minimize spoilers:

First of all, Ezra. (view spoiler)[I did not see that coming at all, but once I got over the shock it didn't really surprise me. In fact, it is kind of brilliant for the AI to do. To pry on the human emotions of the people it is trying to manipulate for its own purpose. (hide spoiler)]


Page 486

I would not want to be one of the people still alive at this point in the journey. (view spoiler)[I think I would rather do what James did I think. That has always been my stance if the zombie apocalypse happens (hide spoiler)]


Page 496

My crazy analytical brain started noticing the difference between the remaining on the ship and the percentage infected and I noticed the numbers don't seem the most logical. Assuming that pretty much everyone left on the ship is infected (view spoiler)[(based on the fact that 800 people evacuated when Kady got the escape pods off, and only a little over 1000 uninfected where left to begin with), I would say at most less than 300 people remained on the ship that weren't infected. Over 400 people have died since the exodus of the ship, and I would assume that most of the noninfected were either killed attempting to get off the ship or were attacked by the infected. (hide spoiler)] It would seem to me that as more people die, the percentage remaining on the ship that aren't infected would start to increase, because (view spoiler)[Kady is not infected. As more and more others die, her percentage as part of the whole remaining on the ship would become higher and higher (hide spoiler)]. I did notice that the authors seemed to take this into account a bit, as the percentage does start to go up, but in a very insubstantial amount it looked like. I realize this is probably nick picking, but that seemed to be a little off.


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I like again how they built any image of the "character" in just the name of the character.


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I can't imagine surviving all that (view spoiler)[just to be doused in radiation. I doubted her suit would be able to handle that amount of radiation. I thought perhaps the ship's hull might have shielding built into the ship (like water shields or something) to protect them from the natural radiation in space, but I wasn't surprised to find out that she got radiation poisoning. Personally, I would have rather died in the battle or before the Phobos infected got to me instead of dying from the terrible symptoms of radiation. (hide spoiler)]


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"Energy never stops, remember. It just changes form." It's been written in much more eloquent terms and more scientific forms before, but I love the sentiment behind it. This is one of my favorite fundamentals of physics.


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Whattttt???? (view spoiler)[Considering I never connected with these characters, I have to admit that I'm not too pleased about this happy ending. If Ezra is actually still alive, I like that it's at least vague/left up to the reader his fate (is she telling the truth or lying for her own benefit to get what she wants?) It kind of reminds me of the ending of Inception (which was brilliant) (hide spoiler)].


Page 595

Well, the (view spoiler)[ambiguity is ruined. Bah. I realize they are going to try to make a series out of this, but I would have liked it if they both had just died, and Kady had sent the files right before she went. Does that make me a bad person? A happy ending just seems so unrealistic for this story. And since the whole romance angle in this story just kind of sputtered along, I felt like the ending would have worked so much better and have a more visceral reaction from readers if they had both perished in the whole ordeal (hide spoiler)]. I don't know. What do you think?

[Emily]

Up to Page 482

Hope your had a great Thanksgiving! Hopefully I'll finish this today.

About Ezra: It had crossed my mind that (view spoiler)[the "photo" seemed too complicated for Ezra to pull off, especially holed up hiding from zombies (I'm just going to call those infected with and crazy from Phobos that from now on for efficiency), and that it would be easy for AIDAN to take over the conversation. I underestimated AIDAN though because I didn't really think it could sound enough like Ezra to convince Kady, so I dismissed the idea. However, I should have figured it out because it was so weird and out of character (as well as not making logical sense) that "Ezra" made Kady come to him instead of fighting to get to her. It was all quite a brilliant move on AIDAN's part. But I definitely didn't expect Ezra to have died. I'm kind of surprised AIDAN told Kady so bluntly that he was dead- I feel like that could have majorly backfired. I'm wondering if it was a calculated move or due to its lack of understanding about human complexities. It doesn't seem to have a problem lying anymore. (hide spoiler)]

Something I find strange is that this whole book is supposed to be a report about Ezra and Kady, but (view spoiler)[there's no account of Ezra's movements after he managed to disable the Lincoln or of his death. I understand why the authors didn't include it in real time because it would have made AIDAN's ruse obvious (and this is in actuality a book and not a report), but I think they should have included it at this point. Maybe they still will, I guess, but it's another unrealistic aspect. Not doing so keeps the question of is he really dead? open (I personally think that he is and that Kady will die as well), but I think it could have leant poignancy and emotion to the rest of the book to have included it. Or if I'm wrong and he's not dead, then I would want to know how he escaped and what his side of the story is like. (hide spoiler)]

Still finding this fairly brutal and depressing. Not more than I can handle, but not very enjoyable without much to balance it out either. Plus, (view spoiler)[the high numbers/percentage of people in the fleet dead or turned into zombies makes it worse. And that I've kind of lost hope in Kady, or possibly anyone, surviving. (hide spoiler)]

I find the underlying theme of (view spoiler)[fear of death- specifically AIDAN's and Kady's- and what they are or are not willing to do to avoid it interesting. (hide spoiler)]

I've always kind of found (view spoiler)[the crawling through air vents trope kind of ridiculous, as it's so unrealistic, and am surprised anyone really uses it anymore. (hide spoiler)]

[Emily]

Up to Page 525

I feel you about doing (view spoiler)[what James did. I think for me it would depend on whether my closest loved ones were still alive. If they were all gone, I'm not sure I'd be willing to fight very hard to survive in many situations, and I would much rather be dead than a zombie. (hide spoiler)]

I also noticed that the percentages have seemed a little off throughout.

Yeah, I liked the "pictures" of the ships too. I also liked the way it was written when (view spoiler)[Kady was space walking on the outside of the ship. (hide spoiler)]

[Emily]

Finished

It is a wonderful fact that energy is never destroyed, it just changes form. It relates closely to my untraditional thoughts on what happens when we die. However, the theory of the heat death of the universe comes to my mind as a somewhat related concept, which is obviously not so great. ;)

Well, (view spoiler)[the fact that the Illumimae group is Kady (and maybe others from the Hypatia) explains a lot about everything from the tone of the letter on the first page to the commentary included in the surveillance footage transcripts. Plus, why nothing about Ezra after the middle battle with the Lincoln was included was explained. (hide spoiler)] So that resolves a number of the faults I found with the book. Certainly not all of them, but some.

I pretty much agree with you about the ending. (view spoiler)[While I'm not opposed to happy endings certainly, in this case, I think it's way too convenient for both Kady and Ezra (and maybe even AIDAN) to have survived. On the one hand, I was certainly expecting an everyone dies kind of ending and would have been more than fine with it. It would have been more realistic and moving, as you said. On the other, the ending kind of did its job because it made me interested in the sequel- not because of the characters or romance, but because of wondering how Kady and Ezra will go about their revenge and how the looming war between them and Director Frobisher will turn out. (I totally called Director Frobisher being Ezra's mom. *victory dance*) (hide spoiler)]

[Sully]

About Ezra: (view spoiler)[I did notice that AIDAN's "personality" seemed a bit bipolar. A lot of times, it was like 'Am I alive?' 'Do I feel?' as if it is self aware and capable of human feelings. And then, as you point out,he simply flat out tells Kady that Ezra is dead, as if he doesn't understand the emotion behind such a declaration. That threw me off (hide spoiler)].

Something you find strange: (view spoiler)[I think it makes sense once we've read the ending, and we realize that Kady put it together. She has information that only she would have access to, as Ezra's mom points out. And that could explain why she doesn't really have much in the way of activity on Ezra's side, because perhaps that information would have been a lot harder to come by. But still, she is supposedly this ultra insanely talented hacker, so you're right that it seems a bit unbalanced. (hide spoiler)]

Underlying theme: (view spoiler)[I agree, and I think Kady's willingness to sacrifice herself for the well being of the non infected she is able to evacuate off the ship is the only time I ever connected with her character and ever really liked her. AIDAN's isn't nearly as interesting to me, since it is a machine and I'm still not buying that whole self awareness deal, but it makes sense from its aspect as everything it is doing is allegedly for self preservation (hide spoiler)]

Hadn't thought that about air vents, but that's a good point! I do like (view spoiler)[that it didn't really seem to help them at all, and that it actually kind of backfired on them when they were in there and the infected got to them and they were basically pinned down in the tight confines. Whoops! (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, I am glad that I will be well past this lifetime by the time even just our own sun burns out and Earth is destroyed hahaha.

I wasn't surprised to find out that (view spoiler)[Kady was the Illuminae. It also helps explain the tone of the very first page, though I still find it a little annoying. It makes sense though, since she is not at all fond of Ezra's mom, and she's still a teenager, so probably not too worried about professionalism (hide spoiler)].

I did not expect (view spoiler)[Director Frobisher to be Ezra's mom. It makes sense, since the whole reason they broke up was because Ezra was keeping his mom a secret, but I didn't really put much thought into Frobisher at all (hide spoiler)]

Though I did enjoy the tail part of this novel a lot more, since we really ramped down on the romance and amped up on the action and suspense, I still don't think I'm interested in continuing this series, as I have the haunting suspicion that the thing I had the most issues with in this novel - the poor formatting/punctuation in the IMs, the blacked out excessive cussing, and the adults and formal reports that feel like they are written by annoying teenagers - are pretty much integral to the style of the novels in this series. Still, I will say this is definitely a unique novel, and the premise felt really promising even if I think it failed to deliver overall.