Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion
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Everything I Never Told You, by Celeste Ng (Anything Goes BOM) Start Date: December 12, 2015
18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?All three children were broken. I'm getting slowly pissed off of what I'm reading. This is a guide of how to destroy your child in 3 easy steps. I wouldn't be surprised if Hannah indeed felt guilty for even existing let alone withholding information from her parents.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
The police asked Nath if Lydia was physically abused. So they suspect them alright. Although they are pretty much useless as parents, I can't see any of them killing Lydia even by mistake. Nath is another matter, though. There is sibling jealousy going way back, and his obsession with Jack is unhealthy to say the least. I can't speculate on what actually happened. This looks more and more like a suicide to me.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I would guess she was smoking, I think Jack said so earlier in the book. As for the condoms, she might hope she would use them soon enough, as Jack was a known Romeo around town. Maybe the condoms are a straight pointer to the idea her mother cultivated in her. No men, no children before you become a doctor. The fear was there, so she was thinking ahead.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
The violence comes from stress. The incompatibility of the whole family is exposed under pressure and their bonds break. Lydia has been heavily and violently abused, mentally not physically as far as we know. So, yes I think this violence is inherent to her death.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I'm guilty of the male nurse part, but not the doctor. We dress them in different colours here, green for doctors, white for nurses to separate them. So I don't do that mistake often.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
I'm sure she does. The revelation that she didn't return on her own, but had an ex-Machina happen to her made me dislike her even more. This marriage should have ended then and there in my opinion. Two weak people destroying 3 helpless children. The starvation of love for Nathan, the paid love Lydia was craving, the silent Hannah, always guilty for existing... I can't really comment on the damage these two people did through inaction.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake, she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I think she was unhappy ever since Marilyn left the house. The promise she made just before her mother returned was just the icing on the cake.
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-6
18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
Definitely. She has reasons for not telling anyone but that will definitely cause some conflicted feelings, especially in a child.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I think this makes sense after finding out about Lydia and Marilyn's relationship in chapter 6. Marilyn seems to have prided herself on having a daughter as smart as she is. That is more important to her than her daughter having friends. I think the police believe she committed suicide.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
Yes, she was using them.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I think the parent's fighting is nothing new. They seem like they have had issues since Marilyn took off years ago. Any family will if one person isn't happy with the life they chose, that causes a lot of pressure. I think the violence absolutely plays a role in one way or another.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I think this is still the automatic association unfortunately. It is still the norm for males to become doctors and females to become nurses. I think medical dramas like Greys Anatomy might slowly change this stigma but it will take time.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
Yes, very likely. At least this is why Marilyn ignores her. I think the others have their own reasons.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
Yes. Her mother was already putting too much pressure on her. She doesn't want that future.
18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
Definitely. She has reasons for not telling anyone but that will definitely cause some conflicted feelings, especially in a child.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I think this makes sense after finding out about Lydia and Marilyn's relationship in chapter 6. Marilyn seems to have prided herself on having a daughter as smart as she is. That is more important to her than her daughter having friends. I think the police believe she committed suicide.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
Yes, she was using them.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I think the parent's fighting is nothing new. They seem like they have had issues since Marilyn took off years ago. Any family will if one person isn't happy with the life they chose, that causes a lot of pressure. I think the violence absolutely plays a role in one way or another.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I think this is still the automatic association unfortunately. It is still the norm for males to become doctors and females to become nurses. I think medical dramas like Greys Anatomy might slowly change this stigma but it will take time.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
Yes, very likely. At least this is why Marilyn ignores her. I think the others have their own reasons.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
Yes. Her mother was already putting too much pressure on her. She doesn't want that future.
12/13-- Day 2 Discussion Questions Chapters 3-49. Nathan has decided not to let anyone know about his suspicions about Jack. Has your opinion about Jack or his possible role in Lydia’s disappearance and death changed after Nathan confronted him and/or after he overheard the exchange between Jack and the police? No, I still think he may know why Lydia disappeared and is afraid to tell the whole truth.
10. James begins a new kind of relationship with his research assistant, Louisa Chen. What role, if any, do you think his daughter’s death/ funeral play in his moving toward this change? Do your opinions of James (as a dad, husband, character) change as a result of their relationship? Yes my opinion of James has changed as well as Louisa. I understand he’s hurting and I cannot imagine what he may be feeling losing a daughter but he should be with his family not a young student. I’m not a prude by any stretch of the imagination but Louisa is taking advantage of James in his vulnerable state and she should know better. No good is going to come from this.
11. In the flashback to 1965 in chapter 4, we see some of the various pressures that Marilyn feels on her life and her decisions. Are there any areas in your own life where you feel competing pressures or expectations that influence your decisions? I didn’t see it in the first two chapters but now I’m seeing the theme and cycle of parents’ expectations putting so much pressure on their children. I think parents forget projecting on your kids and pushing them towards what they think is their potential can cause much anxiety and people pleasing down the line. I am 33 and still struggling for control over my life and worrying if my decisions are going to upset the applecart that is my mother.
12. When Jack and Nathan are at the pool, Nathan is teased by his peers. Jack remembers his own experiences with teasing. What did you think of the way that Jack handled the situation at the pool? How did Jack’s expectations for Nathan and Nathan's behavior contribute to the situation and how it went? Why doesn’t he tell Marilyn what happened? I don’t think he handled the situation very well but I can understand why it would be hard to comfort him because James is right, saying “it gets better” can be a lie, how can you promise something like that? I think he should have told his wife though, the communication breakdown between them has been noticed by the children so it’s no wonder they grew up internalizing and keeping to themselves.
13. In the summer of 1965, Marilyn leaves her family for a period of time. What did you think of that decision and how she did it? Did it change your thoughts about her as a mother, a wife, a character? Yes it did change my opinion somewhat. I feel if you make the decision to have children you have a responsibility to be a mother regardless of how hard it gets. Children didn’t ask to be born it’s unfair of her to be so selfish to not even leave a note!! I can understand she felt cheated of finishing her degree and instead of communicating with James about it she runs away not thinking of how this could effect everyone in the household. He probably would have said no to her right away but she should have stuck to her guns, told him she wanted to still be a mother AND go to medical school and they could have worked together to make this happen or gotten separated but at least the children wouldn’t be wondering where their mother is.
14. Marilyn finds her mother’s old cookbook with advice about being a good housewife. What do you think they’d each say about being stay-at-home mothers? Do you think one is happier or more satisfied? I feel like Marilyn’s mother had a mini breakdown when her husband left her and continued to use the cookbook as a bible to being a good housewife as if it was going to bring him back one day. I think neither of them are completely satisfied with being a stay-at-home mom for different reasons, Marilyn for being thrown into that life way too early and her mom being deprived of the perfect family when the husband left.
15. Already, the novel says a lot about how people are influenced by their parents. How did your parents influence your childhood and teenage years? Do you think they understood their influence (and the limits of their influence) on you? My parents lost control of one of my brothers in late middle school so since we had similarities they feared I would turn into him which caused them to put a very short and strict leash on me. My father and I have had many talks and he understand what his decisions did to my psyche but my mother is in denial about what she did and continues to try and chip away at my defenses. Geez, this book really hits close to home, no wonder it puts me in a gloomy mood after reading it.
16. What do you think of the author’s use of flashbacks in this novel? Do you like this strategy? Does it work well here? At first I didn’t understand the need for backstory but now I see what the overall theme is. The only way to ever break this cycle is to not have children because no matter what you do, you’ll always mess up your kid in some form or another.
Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
I think children tend to internalize blame for things that happen around them to older people.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I didn't get the impression that the parents were suspects. When the police asked Nate about whether the parents had ever hit her, I assumed that they were looking for reasons why she would kill herself. I'm leaning more toward this being the cause of death. The parents concerned seemed in line with what we know of them so far. The father is only concerned about Lydia fitting in more than he had, and the mother is only concerned about Lydia being successful in school.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
The smoking for sure. There was previous mention of her room smelling like smoke. The condoms, I assume she was either having or planning on having sex. I would guess with Jack, although I don't think she would be one of his flings. Maybe they were secretly going out?
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I got the impression it was stress-related rather than constant abuse. I think the parents probably argue a lot and aren't happy together.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I think a lot of people still have these kinds of thoughts subconsciously, myself included sometimes, much as I don't want to admit it. Hopefully with time and future generations, these things will disappear.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
I definitely think Marilyn resents Hannah. She had finally gotten the courage to follow her dreams and had it all taken away from her. I'm sure she loves her daughter but she must be a constant reminder of how close she had come to finishing her schooling. This would probably cause Hannah to internalize these feeling and willfully fade into the background, making it easier for the rest of the family to pay less attention to her. Poor girl.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I'm not sure what to think about this.
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
- It’s possible there is underlying guilt, since when a tragedy strikes a family, everyone carries some guilt, justified or not. I think she is just trying to understand, but as she says, “We didn’t know. We would have come.”
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
- James is always promoting the “fitting in” angle where Lydia is concerned, and Marilyn has always been promoting her daughter to be the best she can be academically. Lydia was certainly aware of these pressures on her from her parents and acted out to rebel, it seems. When I read about the police questioning her parents, I thought maybe it was just routine investigative questioning and nothing to suggest them as suspects.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
- I think she was using them.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
- It is my impression that these scenarios are because of the stress in dealing with Lydia’s death.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
- Hello fellow nurse! Yes, old prejudices are still evident but not as bad as it was in the books era. It’s unfortunate to say the least. Back in the 70s, in Canada, only about 2% of all nurses were male.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
- It’s hard to say, but with Hannah being the youngest, she is easily brushed aside by the other family members, perhaps.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
- Yes, I think she was unhappy, but also curious about death as young people can be sometimes. I don't think suicide was on her mind though.
message 90: by ♦Ashley♦ 17 hours, 36 min agoDec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-6
18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
I don't think she does feel guilty. I think she just wants to know what happened just like everyone else.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I think they are looking into everyone. I feel that Hsmrs is more embarrassed that they didn't know that Lydua had know friends and that she actually lead a very lonely life.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I do think she was, I think Lydia had alot of secrets she was keeping from her mom. I don't think she needed attention but that's he just sedan outlet for trying to be theperfectdaughter.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I am not sure , I don't think James is necessarily violent I think he has a lot of issue to work out though. I think the Iintire family does.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
No I can't say as I am
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
I don't think she resents her I think she just is so crazy about making sure Lydia has the perfect life she forgets all about her other children.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I think from the time her mom left there was some kind of unhappiness and just over the top pleasing that caused her to also be depressed. Because always felt if she didn't do everything her mom wanted she would leave again. I think she was traumatized very badly when her mom left.
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message 91: by Corey 17 hours, 1 min ago
18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?Yes, I think she feels guilty but is also searching for a way to be close to her sister again.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
No, I don't think they are considering her parents. That doesn't go with their theory of her having no friends and possibly committing suicide. I think both parents are struggling to understand who their daughter truly was and they each have their own reaction, which is very true of grief.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I'm thinking that she actually used them. We know she smelled of cigarettes and that she hung out with Jack. There has to be something about her that is "normal."
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
Maybe I'm naive to think that the previous violence does not play into her death. I think both parents are struggling to have control of their relationship with each other and tend to lose control, but I don't think they have it in them to murder their own daughter. But I could be wrong.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I think we all do at sometime or another. I'm a teacher, usually people assume we are all women and the principals are all men. There are assumed roles in our culture, and this is just an example of one.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
She doesn't seem resentful, she almost seems relieved. I'm thinking that Hannah is a reminder of what happened when their mother left and since she wasn't alive during the time she was out of the loop of the true dynamics of her family.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I'm not sure. The author has a way of drawing out a scene that takes only the matter of seconds in real life. I'm not sure if she was unhappy or just knew that it would be a fight she couldn't win since she didn't know how to swim. Still need to think on that one.
Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
I think she feels guilty.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit? I think James and Marilyn are lacksidaisy parents and have no idea who their children or what they are doing. Sad!!
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I'm not sure, I 'm leaning towards she was using them
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I'm still not sure whether Lydia's death was suicide, murder, or accidental which makes it difficult to decide if the violence plays a part in Lydia's death
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
No
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
Good point, maybe so
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I think she was unhappy at this point in her life
Day 318. I imagine it's some sort of survivor's guilt.
19. I think they are embarrassed that they knew so little about Lydia. It's becoming a theme that they are forcing an opinion on their children.
20. At the time I thought it was something Lydia was using and hiding.
21. The violence seems to be worse during stressful times.
22. Not really. But, then again, I am rarely in the ER.
23. I think neglecting Hannah was a side effect of paying such close attention to Lydia. Nathan got the same treatment.
24. I didn't think she accepted what happened. I think things happened too fast for her to really react. She did hold her hand out to Nathan.
As a point of discussion Lisa, I find it interesting that you noted that your parents didn't influence you, then you state that whatever they did you did the opposite. Wouldn't you consider that some sort of influence? I agree I think that's how Marilyn wishes to live her life.Though as I noted in my post on this section, I think our family's parents, community and friends have huge influences on our lives whether we choose to follow our parents' lead and desires for us, or do the complete opposite to show that we're our own person, because of their choices and desires, they've influenced us in who we decide to be.
9. Nathan has decided not to let anyone know about his suspicions about Jack. Has your opinion about Jack or his possible role in Lydia’s disappearance and death changed after Nathan confronted him and/or after he overheard the exchange between Jack and the police? It did make me suspicious.10. James begins a new kind of relationship with his research assistant, Louisa Chen. What role, if any, do you think his daughter’s death/ funeral play in his moving toward this change? Do your opinions of James (as a dad, husband, character) change as a result of their relationship? Oh yes. I was very disappointed.
11. In the flashback to 1965 in chapter 4, we see some of the various pressures that Marilyn feels on her life and her decisions. Are there any areas in your own life where you feel competing pressures or expectations that influence your decisions? Yes. I feel pressure at work all the time.
12. When Jack and Nathan are at the pool, Nathan is teased by his peers. Jack remembers his own experiences with teasing. What did you think of the way that Jack handled the situation at the pool? How did Jack’s expectations for Nathan and Nathan's behavior contribute to the situation and how it went? Why doesn’t he tell Marilyn what happened? I felt sorry for Nath after that. I think he was embarrassed and his own past played into it.
13. In the summer of 1965, Marilyn leaves her family for a period of time. What did you think of that decision and how she did it? Did it change your thoughts about her as a mother, a wife, a character? I was shocked that she would not discuss it with her husband. It seemed totally crazy to me. They should be a team and she didn't even give him a chance to support her. And how could she not consider the impact of her leaving on her kids!
14. Marilyn finds her mother’s old cookbook with advice about being a good housewife. What do you think they’d each say about being stay-at-home mothers? Do you think one is happier or more satisfied? I think Marilyn's mother would have been more satisified staying home. Marilyn was obviously not so happy about it.
15. Already, the novel says a lot about how people are influenced by their parents. How did your parents influence your childhood and teenage years? Do you think they understood their influence (and the limits of their influence) on you? I don't think we ever fully grasp the influence that we have on our kids. Part of it comes from their perception of us as well. My parents did influence me. It is because of them that I am a Christian and that my marriage has very traditional roles. I am happy for their positive influence in my life.
16. What do you think of the author’s use of flashbacks in this novel? Do you like this strategy? Does it work well here? I thought it worked really well. I enjoyed this book.
Allison Ann wrote: "Chapters 3-4I truly don't understand why so many novels have everyone miserable. Is happiness so hard to have? To write about? I suppose most people find it more interesting to read about pain an..."
I have heard that authors do it so that we are sympathetic to the characters. I don't know if it is really true.
18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared? Yes. I think she feels responsible.19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit? Since I finished the book, I will not comment
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention? Hmmmm the tension mounts.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death? I think it was only during stressful times. I think Hannah is forgotten a lot, and I think dad had remorse about slapping Nath
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way? Not any more. It is so common now. My Dr. is a woman and she is excellent.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
No. I think the family seems to be in crisis. I'm not sure how much Marilyn really cares. It is like she is passing time until she can be done parenting.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life? Hard to say. The scene was strange.
IMO our parents influence who we are, whether we want them to or not, it is pretty much unavoidable.James and Marilyn did not want to influence their children's lives, they wanted to live them for them, they did this without any regard to what their children's wants, passions, or desires work. I don't even think they saw them as people, and really I think Hannah suffered the most. It was like she wasn't even there.
Somebody else mentioned this was basically a how-to not parent book, and I completely agree with this. I also think your view on this book can be very different depending on whether or not you are a parent, and how old your kids are, as a mother I found this book very disturbing, I really liked the book, but I could not understand Maryland not even a little bit.
I think I for gave James a little more, simply because I have a higher expectation from my mother, this is because I am a mother, and I feel as though that is my most important job in the world.
And as a quick answer to the doctor question, I don't ever have a problem seen a female as a doctor, but sometimes I do admit to finding it a bit odd when there is a male nurse.
Also if I was Lydia I would take up smoking too LOL! Can you even imagine??? I'm so grateful I can't!
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
She probably blames herself to some degree. She probably also just wants to do something to help her family get better. Maybe she thinks finding answers will help fix them.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
It seems like the cops think it was suicide, and they are trying to show that she was lonely and unhappy. I think the parents are trying to avoid facing the fact that they really didn't know their daughter very well.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I don't think it was about attention at all, because it really seems like she was hiding them really well. If she hadn't died, I don't think her family would have ever found them.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I think there's probably only violence during the stressful times. I'm not saying it was a happy household, but mostly it seems more psychological abuse than anything else. The way James mocks Nath, or the pressure put on Lydia or the fact that Hannah is completely ignored- that all seems like emotional or psychological abuse to me.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I grew up watching shows like ER and Scrubs where the doctors are both genders, so I didn't really grow up with the stereotype that all doctors are men and all nurses are women.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
Yes I think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this. I really, really hate the way Hannah is treated. It bothers me so much. I've had friends who were treated like this by their families, and it's infuriating. How can a parent think that's ok?
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I think she was starting to feel the pressure her mother was putting on her- the weight of expectations.
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
A little maybe
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
It is fitting. I think the police think it is suicide and blame the parents.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I think she was using them because it was hidden pretty well so how could she be using it to get attention.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I think the violence is only during stressful times. I am not sure about Lydia's death yet.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
Yes :(
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
Yes and yes
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
Lydia is overwhelmed and feels she is to blame for her mom leaving. It is a lot of pressure for a child to feel like they are responsible for their mom's happiness.
Mod
18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
Well I wish she would speak up, but it seems that no-one is asking her. She is the invisible child (including to the police). frustrating
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I didn't think that they suspected the parents, I took it more about the insecurities of the parents that their daughter was perfect and had everything they didn't have in school
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I think they are Lydia's. It all goes to the theme of not really knowing your children/family ; the secrets we keep...
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I hadn't thought of it, because Hannah said it was the first time she had ever heard them fight and I think James said it was the only time that had ever happened too. I think it goes to the underlying anger the father has for how he is treated by others and the mother for losing her 'dream life'
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
Yes, I think this is changing for new generations, but for us oldies it is kind of ingrained in our minds. Like that riddle about how a father and daughter are in a car accident and when taken to the hospital how is it possible that the Doctor says "that's my daughter" (the Doctor is the mother).
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
I haven't seen any resentment, but this poor girl is ignored. Although I think Nathan was ignored too. I'm not sure why Lydia was the golden child for James ; we've only really been given the explanation for Marilyn so far
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
This was a little confusing to me as this is Nathan's POV and how would he know that? I found it a bit unbelievable that a teen would be able to make that kind of assumption.
I think parental expectations were crushing on Lydia.
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared? I don’t think she feels guilty about that or else she would tell them now. I think Hannah never felt close to her sister since no one really paid any attention to her so I think this is a way for Hannah to get to know who Lydia really was by solving this mystery of her death.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit? I think the police are seeing that the parents have no idea what their child was really going through and that they hardly knew their teenager. The police are probably leaning more toward suicide than homicide.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention? I think she may have been smoking-it’s a very teenager thing to try- and she had the condoms with the hope that Jack may decide to deflower her and she would have protection.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death? The author did say he never slapped Nath again but also that he never apologized for it either. I think hiding under the table just feels like a safe space for children, it can be a hiding spot when in need and a fort during playtime. I really don’t feel any violence in this piece, just neglect and emotional abuse.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way? I never made this mistake probably because I had a female pediatrician growing up so I have always preferred female doctors to examine me, definitely more comfortable with that. I also work at a surgery center so I am accustomed to seeing male nurses and female doctors.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family? I think that is a big reason why Marilyn resents Hannah but what gets me is her blatantly ignoring her son in favor of Lydia, like why? Nath is just as smart and also eager about astronauts so why discourage your child learning? I became very angry reading that and wanted to reach in and shake that selfish woman and demand she never stifle a child’s wonder and creativity.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life? Very important scene in this story and it shows a lot about the sibling relationship the two share. Of course she was already unhappy, her mother was projecting onto her and she was so afraid of Marilyn leaving again she would do anything her mother asked. And Nath realizing a life without Lydia wouldn’t make a difference, he would still be neglected and now he wouldn’t have someone to lean on when family stuff got too hard to bare alone. That’s why he looked out for her about sneaking off to have a social life with Jack because as much as he didn’t like Jack, he loved his sister and wanted her to be happy.
12/12-- Day 1 Discussion Questions Chapters 1-21. Do you like the book so far? Why did you decide to read it? Is this a genre you normally read?
I'm usually so-so on these types of books. But I try to read all the BOM's to expand my reading choices.
2. Lydia dies May 3rd, 1977 (first lines of the book so this isn't a spoiler) and Lydia's parents met in September 1957. What differences and similarities do you see in regards to race and gender relations between these two time frames in the book (or in history, if you looked it up)? What part does it play in the Lee family dynamics?
It's interesting since they both rebelled so much against their parents in their own way and then they try to control Lydia's life to make her into what they wanted to be but they don't see that it's really the same thing that their parent's did to them.
3. What do you think of Lydia's mother, Marilyn's description of her first born daughter's first steps and the line "...Lydia, still small enough to cradle, had secrets" ? How is Lydia different than her siblings?
She seems to have the weight of both parent's on her.
4. How does your high school experience compare with Lydia's? Why do you think Lydia doesn't have any "real" friends? What other things do you think Lydia is letting her parents believe are true to meet her parents' expectations?
I think it's probably easier for her to pretend than have to constantly be on guard against her parent's. I had friends but no one real close in highschool. I enjoyed college a lot more.
5. Why do you think Lydia's siblings, Nath and Hannah, do not tell their parents about Lydia's friendship with Jack? Do you think Jack is involved in Lydia's disappearance and/or death?
I think partially they're afraid that they might have done the wrong thing. I suspect he plays a part but not the one to actually cause her death. Since the description of the book states someone thought it was him but Hannah thinks she knows.
6. Who do you think Hannah saw/heard on Wednesday at 2AM?
I thought it was just her escaping through the window.
7. What do you think of Lydia's body being found at a lake when Lydia could not swim?
Could be a suicide, or maybe she's trying to conquer her fear?
8. What do you think of the first lines of Chapter 2, "How did it begin? Like everything: with mothers and fathers... Because more than anything, her mother had wanted to stand out; because more than anything, her father wanted to blend in. Because those things had been impossible" ? Where are you on the personality spectrum of wanting to stand out versus wanting to blend in?
Probably mostly in the middle. I think I'd be happy doing something where the work was recognized but I personally wasn't.
9. What do you think of Marilyn and James' courtship and marriage? What do you think happened in 1966 that made Marilyn disappear for a few days and do you think it is related to Lydia's disappearance and death?
I wonder if it had anything to do with him teaching and their being an aide. Since they seemed to allude to that and he's obviously done it with Marilyn.
12/13-- Day 2 Discussion Questions Chapters 3-49. Nathan has decided not to let anyone know about his suspicions about Jack. Has your opinion about Jack or his possible role in Lydia’s disappearance and death changed after Nathan confronted him and/or after he overheard the exchange between Jack and the police?
I now think Jack is totally innocent. More and more, I'm starting to agree with the theories that Lydia killed herself. Listening to the book, I'm finding myself tensing up and becoming uncomfortably stressed, so I can only imagine what poor Lydia felt LIVING it.
10. James begins a new kind of relationship with his research assistant, Louisa Chen. What role, if any, do you think his daughter’s death/ funeral play in his moving toward this change? Do your opinions of James (as a dad, husband, character) change as a result of their relationship?
James is grieving...many people seek physical, sometimes sexual, comfort when grieving. Does my opinion of him change? Yes. But honestly, I think this infidelity was a long time coming. Marilyn hurt him DEEPLY when she disappeared...that's not something you simply brush off and move on from. He and Marilyn have had a broken relationship for a very long time.
11. In the flashback to 1965 in chapter 4, we see some of the various pressures that Marilyn feels on her life and her decisions. Are there any areas in your own life where you feel competing pressures or expectations that influence your decisions?
I am very lucky in that my family (parents or siblings) have never placed any sort of pressure on me to be any particular way. I am my own harshest critic, so any pressure or perfectionism I feel stems from my own self.
12. When Jack and Nathan are at the pool, Nathan is teased by his peers. Jack remembers his own experiences with teasing. What did you think of the way that Jack handled the situation at the pool? How did Jack’s expectations for Nathan and Nathan's behavior contribute to the situation and how it went? Why doesn’t he tell Marilyn what happened?
James is so full of self-loathing, and he sees himself more and more in Nathan, that he could do nothing in that situation but, once again, desperately try to blend in. I think he didn't tell Marilyn because he was ashamed of the entire situation. He was ashamed of his reaction, he was ashamed of Nathan's reaction, he was ashamed of the fact that neither of them can do anything about their race and these situations will most likely continue to occur.
13. In the summer of 1965, Marilyn leaves her family for a period of time. What did you think of that decision and how she did it? Did it change your thoughts about her as a mother, a wife, a character?
I think Marilyn is horribly selfish. This enraged me. I know she felt trapped. I know she felt inadequate. Screw that. Get over it. Take care of your children. The minute you have a child, your life is NO LONGER ABOUT YOU. She did not get pregnant on accident. Every time you have sex, you know you run the risk of getting pregnant. That's just the way it is. Birth control pills have been around since 1960, latex condoms since 1920, diaphragms since the late 1800's! If you are that worried about having a kid, if your life will be ruined if you do, DON'T HAVE SEX! Zero sympathy for Marilyn, sorry 'bout it.
14. Marilyn finds her mother’s old cookbook with advice about being a good housewife. What do you think they’d each say about being stay-at-home mothers? Do you think one is happier or more satisfied?
This is a debate (that really shouldn't even be one) that is still going on today. Every woman wants different things. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a working mother; there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a housewife. Both of these titles require hard work of different sorts. Both of these titles should be worn with pride.
15. Already, the novel says a lot about how people are influenced by their parents. How did your parents influence your childhood and teenage years? Do you think they understood their influence (and the limits of their influence) on you?
My parents have and continue to influence me every day. I am constantly learning from them and using their successes/mistakes/advice etc. to shape my own behaviors and choices. I am still my own person and have qualities that are uniquely my own, but I know my parents have had some small hand in that.
16. What do you think of the author’s use of flashbacks in this novel? Do you like this strategy? Does it work well here?
I love the flashbacks, they are truly tying things together and causing me to say things like, "Oooooh! THAT'S why she does that! That makes total sense!"
@Brie- I COMPLETELY agree with you on number 13. Plus I liked the way you wrote it and backed up your point with facts.
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
Definitely.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I don't think they suspect Lydia's parents of doing anything except maybe being delusional. The police have spoken to everyone, including Jack...so I doubt that Jack was the only person that told them Lydia seemed overwhelmed/depressed/pressured etc. I think her parents' response fits in with the theme. That's all either of them could focus on when she was alive and that's still all they can focus on when she is dead.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I think Lydia knew her mother would find them, but I don't know if they were actually used...I don't think she and Jack were lovers...maybe she tried a couple cigarettes?
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I think it's in stressful times. I think the majority of the abuse is mental, rather than physical. We don't hear of any other physical altercations between parent and child other than the James/Nathan slap, but we hear (and see the effects) of a looooot of mental scarring taking place.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I wonder if this assumption is a little more generational... I grew up in hospitals. My mother was an oncology nurse and my older sister is a doctor. I've never made the assumption but I don't know if it's because I always look at the scrubs first? I have no idea...
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
Probably...I feel so bad for Hannah...even I forget about Hannah! I'm actually a little surprised Hannah is as kind and well-behaved as she is...you would think that kind of neglect would trigger negative behaviors.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
It seems like since her mother's return, Lydia has equated intelligence and success with love. If you answer the question correctly, I will reward you with my affection. That cannot be an easy burden to bear! Lydia probably welcomed the feeling of weightless nothingness over the weight of her mother's happiness on her shoulders.
Delusional, perfect word for these parents!And I'm sure we could all come up with a lot of unfavorable adjectives to describe Marilyn, selfish is the first to come to mind.
Berit wrote: "Delusional, perfect word for these parents!And I'm sure we could all come up with a lot of unfavorable adjectives to describe Marilyn, selfish is the first to come to mind."
Oh Berit...I've missed you! :) Wheel-a-thon reuniooooon!
Back at you! Maybe next go-round will be on the same team again! I love your insight on this book, and totally agree with it all!
12/12-- Day 1 Discussion Questions Chapters 1-21. Do you like the book so far? Why did you decide to read it? Is this a genre you normally read?
I am liking this book so far! I decided to read it because it's a BOM...and the cover looked interesting to me. I have read a few other books that are similar to this.
2. Lydia dies May 3rd, 1977 (first lines of the book so this isn't a spoiler) and Lydia's parents met in September 1957. What differences and similarities do you see in regards to race and gender relations between these two time frames in the book (or in history, if you looked it up)? What part does it play in the Lee family dynamics?
There was gender and racial discriminations going on during both times. I think gender stood out more as a focus in 1957 and race stood out more in 1977. That's not to say that either one was ever better or worse then or now, I'm only speaking to where the national focus was.
3. What do you think of Lydia's mother, Marilyn's description of her first born daughter's first steps and the line "...Lydia, still small enough to cradle, had secrets" ? How is Lydia different than her siblings?
I think Marilyn expects more from Lydia than from her siblings. The statement feels a little dark to me as well. Just seems off a bit.
4. How does your high school experience compare with Lydia's? Why do you think Lydia doesn't have any "real" friends? What other things do you think Lydia is letting her parents believe are true to meet her parents' expectations?
I graduated high school in 1988 in the rural Georgia and there wasn't the same level of discrimination as the book describes for Lydia. All types of people were friends with all types of people. I think Lydia might not have many "real" friends since she's so smart and because of her 'looks' and mixed background.
5. Why do you think Lydia's siblings, Nath and Hannah, do not tell their parents about Lydia's friendship with Jack? Do you think Jack is involved in Lydia's disappearance and/or death?
There could be several reasons: trying to give her some privacy, staying out of her personal business, not wanting to be a 'tattle-tale,' etc. Right now I'm going to go with no on Jack being involved in her death.
6. Who do you think Hannah saw/heard on Wednesday at 2AM?
No clue? If the entire family is on pins and needles with worry, why didn't anyone else see or hear anything??
7. What do you think of Lydia's body being found at a lake when Lydia could not swim?
My first thought was suicide.
8. What do you think of the first lines of Chapter 2, "How did it begin? Like everything: with mothers and fathers... Because more than anything, her mother had wanted to stand out; because more than anything, her father wanted to blend in. Because those things had been impossible" ? Where are you on the personality spectrum of wanting to stand out versus wanting to blend in?
The writing here is beautiful! I think I'm around the middle of the spectrum, but definitely leaning more towards standing out. I don't ever want to be obnoxious, but I'm not a wall flower either. :)
9. What do you think of Marilyn and James' courtship and marriage? What do you think happened in 1966 that made Marilyn disappear for a few days and do you think it is related to Lydia's disappearance and death?
I am eagerly awaiting for that to come out!
12/13-- Day 2 Discussion Questions Chapters 3-49. Nathan has decided not to let anyone know about his suspicions about Jack. Has your opinion about Jack or his possible role in Lydia’s disappearance and death changed after Nathan confronted him and/or after he overheard the exchange between Jack and the police?
He doesn't seem bad to me just rather wild.
10. James begins a new kind of relationship with his research assistant, Louisa Chen. What role, if any, do you think his daughter’s death/ funeral play in his moving toward this change? Do your opinions of James (as a dad, husband, character) change as a result of their relationship?
I assume he's grieving but it sounds like their family is a bit dysfunctional anyway.
11. In the flashback to 1965 in chapter 4, we see some of the various pressures that Marilyn feels on her life and her decisions. Are there any areas in your own life where you feel competing pressures or expectations that influence your decisions?
I think all mom's feel a pressure of some sort. If you're a working mom then you feel bad because you're not always there for your kids and if you're a stay at home mom you feel bad because you're not working and earning income. There's really no winning.
12. When Jack and Nathan are at the pool, Nathan is teased by his peers. Jack remembers his own experiences with teasing. What did you think of the way that Jack handled the situation at the pool? How did Jack’s expectations for Nathan and Nathan's behavior contribute to the situation and how it went? Why doesn’t he tell Marilyn what happened?
I'm not sure that being the one to take pity on someone makes the situation better. It's better to become friends with the person so they have someone to rely on. I think he's embarrassed about what happened.
13. In the summer of 1965, Marilyn leaves her family for a period of time. What did you think of that decision and how she did it? Did it change your thoughts about her as a mother, a wife, a character?
That seemed like a crappy thing to do. If you want to make a change then it's your responsibility to do it as a family.
14. Marilyn finds her mother’s old cookbook with advice about being a good housewife. What do you think they’d each say about being stay-at-home mothers? Do you think one is happier or more satisfied?
I think it just depends on the type of person you are. I'd go nuts as a stay at home mom (and probably spend my whole day on goodreads). But I know others who love it.
15. Already, the novel says a lot about how people are influenced by their parents. How did your parents influence your childhood and teenage years? Do you think they understood their influence (and the limits of their influence) on you?
I think my parent's tried to let us be whatever we wanted to be but tried to influence us for doing our own thing.
16. What do you think of the author’s use of flashbacks in this novel? Do you like this strategy? Does it work well here?
I get a bit confused since it jumps back and forth so much. I wish there was at least little headings that indicated when the swaps were concurring.
12/13-- Day 2 Discussion Questions Chapters 3-410. Nathan has decided not to let anyone know about his suspicions about Jack. Has your opinion about Jack or his possible role in Lydia’s disappearance and death changed after Nathan confronted him and/or after he overheard the exchange between Jack and the police?
Maybe. The jury is still out for me on this one.
11. James begins a new kind of relationship with his research assistant, Louisa Chen. What role, if any, do you think his daughter’s death/ funeral play in his moving toward this change? Do your opinions of James (as a dad, husband, character) change as a result of their relationship?
I think Lydia's death may have made him more vulnerable and less likely to think clearly. I think the sexual tension was already there though. I always have a different opinion of someone who cheats.
12. In the flashback to 1965 in chapter 4, we see some of the various pressures that Marilyn feels on her life and her decisions. Are there any areas in your own life where you feel competing pressures or expectations that influence your decisions?
Since my Mama died 5 years ago, I have realized I let her have too much influence over many of my decisions, even though I'm now 45. I worried to much about pleasing her and doing what she would consider 'right.'
13. When Jack and Nathan are at the pool, Nathan is teased by his peers. Jack remembers his own experiences with teasing. What did you think of the way that Jack handled the situation at the pool? How did Jack’s expectations for Nathan and Nathan's behavior contribute to the situation and how it went? Why doesn’t he tell Marilyn what happened?
Do you mean James instead of Jack? I thought Jack handled this poorly. I'm not sure what the best way to handle this situation would have been, but this wasn't it. I think Marilyn wasn't told because James, as a father, would have been embarrassed for his son and himself.
14. In the summer of 1965, Marilyn leaves her family for a period of time. What did you think of that decision and how she did it? Did it change your thoughts about her as a mother, a wife, a character?
It disappointed me that she left without letting her family know where she would be and why? How could you do that to your husband and children?
15. Marilyn finds her mother’s old cookbook with advice about being a good housewife. What do you think they’d each say about being stay-at-home mothers? Do you think one is happier or more satisfied?
Marilyn's mother would be the more satisfied in my opinion. I think Marilyn still has many unresolved feelings about not becoming a doctor.
16. Already, the novel says a lot about how people are influenced by their parents. How did your parents influence your childhood and teenage years? Do you think they understood their influence (and the limits of their influence) on you?
My parents definitely had a huge influence on me - I think all parents do! They did their best and I think I'm pretty well adjusted as an adult, but there are a few things that I now have different opinions on.
17. What do you think of the author’s use of flashbacks in this novel? Do you like this strategy? Does it work well here?
I enjoy the flashbacks as long as they don't become too distracting. So far, they are working for me in this book.
Karrie wrote: "Allison Ann wrote: "Chapters 3-4I truly don't understand why so many novels have everyone miserable. Is happiness so hard to have? To write about? I suppose most people find it more interesting t..."
I have heard that authors do it so that we are sympathetic to the characters. I don't know if it is really true.
It certainly doesn't work with me. I find them weak, unsympathetic and thoroughly unlikable. I've been reading so much misery lately that I just read a fluffy and poorly written romance just because the MC was happy, self-confident and not stupid. :D The story was blah and I'm fairly sure the author had only a rudimentary grasp of English, but I enjoyed it anyway.
After reading through everyone's discussion questions, I'm really curious to see how everyone ends up liking this book.Day one I was liking it, but now it just makes me sadder as I continue reading...
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
I'm sure there could be some guilt or survivor's remorse. I also think she really just wants to know what happened to her big sister.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I haven't thought of the parents as suspects. I just think they were both totally out o tough with their daughter's reality. They thought they knew her and what she was doing when they really had no clue.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
Based on how hidden they were, I would say they were actually being used.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
There are some strange family dynamics going on here, but I'm not getting the feeling that there was any real abuse going on.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I don't automatically think of male when I head doctor because I have a few female doctors. However, I still think female when I hear nurse.
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
I'm not sure that would cause the rest of the family to ignore Hannah, but definitely for Marilyn. Lydia will always be her favorite - even in death.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
Sadly, Lydia probably relished in the feeling of no pressure and of being weightless with no hounding from her mother, even at a young age.
Dec 14 - Day 3 Discussion Questions Chapters 5-618. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
Maybe she did something else? Though Hannah actually seems like a decent person.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I think they are lining it up to be a suicide so they can close the case.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I think she was using them, or intending too. They were a bit too well hidden just to get attention.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
I think the parent's only care about Lydia and ignore or don't like the other kids.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I don't often. Perhaps because I'm a female Software Engineer so I'm used to being the odd one out. However, I do tend to make some judgments about things like that though I try to be careful. I think everyone makes assumptions. Though I have to say I probably know more female doctors than male ones at this point. (In the 70s it was probably a much more skewed ratio).
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
I think Marilyn is just so focused on Lydia that Hannah doesn't even register with her.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I don't think Lydia's life is her own. She seems to need to live it to make both of her parent's happy which seems tiresome.
Snowtulip wrote: "After reading through everyone's discussion questions, I'm really curious to see how everyone ends up liking this book.Day one I was liking it, but now it just makes me sadder as I continue readi..."
I find it a rather depressing book as well.
I like the book, I even liked it better the second time, but I absolutely hated the characters, well let me clarify, I hated the parents!So, I guess some part of me hopes somebody reads his book sees themselves in these parents, and does things differently.
Mod
I'm just getting annoyed. Even when Ng ATTEMPTS to throw in a twist at the end of chapter 8/beginning of chapter 9 I'm just like...predictable. I had my suspicions. Now it feels like the "story" (or insufferable droning) is dragging on...I'm with Karen on this one, simply trying to power through because I only have two and a half hours left in the audiobook.
Karen wrote: "Yeah, I have to say this book is not for me. I'm finding it pretty boring actually. I think the concept just isn't enough to flesh out a story that is interesting. I'm only reading on because it is..."Heh. Yeah, I suppose at the point I'm at now I figured out how it was from the first day of reading.
Discussion QuestionsDec 15 Chapters 7-8 Pages 158-216
25. Nath and Lydia seem to be very close up until a bit before her death. How much of the fact that Nath was going off to college do you think impacted what happened to Lydia?
26. I've often joked when our eldest does something ridiculous that "Oh well, this one's ruined, we'll try again with the next." However, the Lee's seem to have actually taken that to heart. Why do you think it was Lydia that they focused on?
27. Do you think Lydia mentioned she was failing at physics just to put attention back on herself? Does she hate and crave the attention?
28. The affair has been found out! Or at least very strongly confirmed. What do you think the fallout will be?
29. Thoughts on Jack? Thoughts on what really happened?
Chapters 7-8 Pages 158-21625. Nath and Lydia seem to be very close up until a bit before her death. How much of the fact that Nath was going off to college do you think impacted what happened to Lydia?
I dont think that impacted at all. I think what made the biggest impact is the pressure from both her parents, their high expectations that she is unable to meet.
26. I've often joked when our eldest does something ridiculous that "Oh well, this one's ruined, we'll try again with the next." However, the Lee's seem to have actually taken that to heart. Why do you think it was Lydia that they focused on?
I think the mum focused on Lydia as the first girl and she wanted Lydia to live the life she never had. I think dad saw potential in Lydia, because she had blue eyes and therefore might be the least Chinese looking, something he has resented for most of his life.
27. Do you think Lydia mentioned she was failing at physics just to put attention back on herself? Does she hate and crave the attention?
No I think she had to, because she needed her mum to sign the test form confirming she knew of the failed mark. I think she was bursting to tell after she'd kept holding it off for so long
28. The affair has been found out! Or at least very strongly confirmed. What do you think the fallout will be?
Yeah, the whole family knows. I think that's another reason why Marilyn has been pulling away from him and has become more offensive about James being Chinese in her expressions. I think there will be a big blow up coming. I hope Nath will still go to Harvard though, it sounds like he really needs to get out of there! I feel for Hannah who is so invisible in this family, even the story doesn't cover much about her :(
29. Thoughts on Jack? Thoughts on what really happened?
Jack is your ultimate fringe guy in high school, not really belonging anywhere, like Lydia. I still don't think he had anything to do with Lydia's death. Maybe he tried to teach her to swim? I still lean towards thinking Lydia committed suicide though
Chava wrote: "27. Do you think Lydia mentioned she was failing at physics just to put attention back on herself? Does she hate and crave the attention?No I think she had to, because she needed her mum to sign the test form confirming she knew of the failed mark. I think she was bursting to tell after she'd kept holding it off for so long"
She also did that thing a bit later where Nath was getting the attention for visiting Harvard and she broke in with the comment about Jack.
Mod
Now it feels like the "story" ..."
I find it interesting that for a book that has a theme of stereotypes, the author has used a few of them to try and tell the story! :o
Mod
I've found Hannah the most interesting character, and the synopsis on the back of my book suggests she is pivotal to the story, and yet we learn very little about her.
Karen wrote: "I agree with all your comments Chava.I've found Hannah the most interesting character, and the synopsis on the back of my book suggests she is pivotal to the story, and yet we learn very little ab..."
She'll probably just solve the whole thing and everyone will be surprised :P
Discussion QuestionsDAY 4 Chapters 7-8 Pages 158-216
25. Nath and Lydia seem to be very close up until a bit before her death. How much of the fact that Nath was going off to college do you think impacted what happened to Lydia?
Eeeeeh I don't know if I would say "impacted what happened to Lydia" as that implies fault, however slight. I think Nathan HAD to get out of that house. He was miserable at home, he had high hopes for himself (the hopes his mother SHOULD have had in him, but had in Lydia instead), and he had to break free from that toxic environment. As far as how that affected Lydia...a person cannot place their sole source of happiness on another person. It is not fair to either party, as one of them is inevitably bound to be disappointed. If ever there was a moral in this soul-sucking novel, it is COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY TO HEALTH AND HAPPINESS.
26. I've often joked when our eldest does something ridiculous that "Oh well, this one's ruined, we'll try again with the next." However, the Lee's seem to have actually taken that to heart. Why do you think it was Lydia that they focused on?
First of all, that is hilarious, and my parents said the same thing with me (the baby) and all of my older siblings. Honestly, I have been asking that question since the beginning and I still don't really get it!!! It HAS to be largely in part to her being a female, at least for the mother (who's name I've already forgotten because I've blocked her out of my memory). As for James, I've said before that he places all of his self-loathing and blame and embarrassment and societal pressures on Nathan. And as always, Hannah is forgotten by, well, everyone including the reader.
27. Do you think Lydia mentioned she was failing at physics just to put attention back on herself? Does she hate and crave the attention?
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES. Wow. I am so glad you pointed that out. At that moment I was just like, "Oh my God. You're ALL selfish! None of you can go five minutes without stealing attention!" Poor Nathan, man...
28. The affair has been found out! Or at least very strongly confirmed. What do you think the fallout will be?
In a perfect world, she (the wife who's name I forget) will have some gumption and be like DEUCES! and they will get divorced because some people just shouldn't be married. But, like I said, that's in my perfect world...
29. Thoughts on Jack? Thoughts on what really happened?
(view spoiler) I think the poor kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time and should have never gotten mixed up with this dysfunctional disaster of a family.
Not on any team but I had to stop reading this. I'll come back to it another time, it was much too heartbreaking for this month. The narration was great, very s l ooooow and the timeline change in the beginning took a moment to sink in. I've enjoyed reading member's thoughts.
Discussion QuestionsDec 15 Chapters 7-8 Pages 158-216
25. Nath and Lydia seem to be very close up until a bit before her death. How much of the fact that Nath was going off to college do you think impacted what happened to Lydia?
A lot of it. She could not take the pressure by herself.
26. I've often joked when our eldest does something ridiculous that "Oh well, this one's ruined, we'll try again with the next." However, the Lee's seem to have actually taken that to heart. Why do you think it was Lydia that they focused on?
Because for her father, she looked white and would complete his dream of fitting in and for her mother, she was the image of herself that she wanted to live and complete her dreams through.
27. Do you think Lydia mentioned she was failing at physics just to put attention back on herself? Does she hate and crave the attention?
28. The affair has been found out! Or at least very strongly confirmed. What do you think the fallout will be?
29. Thoughts on Jack? Thoughts on what really happened?
Day 1 Questions I'm sorry for starting late - but my library hold just barely came in.
12/12-- Day 1 Discussion Questions Chapters 1-2
1. Do you like the book so far? Why did you decide to read it? Is this a genre you normally read?
I decided to read it because it was the only group book of the month I hadn't already read. Plus, a couple of people on my Tower Team really liked the book.
2. Lydia dies May 3rd, 1977 (first lines of the book so this isn't a spoiler) and Lydia's parents met in September 1957. What differences and similarities do you see in regards to race and gender relations between these two time frames in the book (or in history, if you looked it up)? What part does it play in the Lee family dynamics? I generally have the impression that both race and gender issues were a lot more repressive, especially in the 50s. I don't have a ton of knowledge about either time period though. I'm sure it plays some roles in the family dynamics, but I also think that families like the Lees helped improve the situation.
3. What do you think of Lydia's mother, Marilyn's description of her first born daughter's first steps and the line "...Lydia, still small enough to cradle, had secrets" ? How is Lydia different than her siblings? Lydia seems a lot more private than her siblings.
4. How does your high school experience compare with Lydia's? Why do you think Lydia doesn't have any "real" friends? What other things do you think Lydia is letting her parents believe are true to meet her parents' expectations? It may be just that Lydia is naturally secretive, and it sure sounds like her "friends" are using her for academic help. She may have been bullied.
5. Why do you think Lydia's siblings, Nath and Hannah, do not tell their parents about Lydia's friendship with Jack? Do you think Jack is involved in Lydia's disappearance and/or death? I think its pretty typical for siblings to keep each other's secrets. Right now I don't think Jack is involved, but I may change my mind.
6. Who do you think Hannah saw/heard on Wednesday at 2AM? I think it was Lydia sneaking out.
7. What do you think of Lydia's body being found at a lake when Lydia could not swim? It actually makes me wonder about suicide :(
8. What do you think of the first lines of Chapter 2, "How did it begin? Like everything: with mothers and fathers... Because more than anything, her mother had wanted to stand out; because more than anything, her father wanted to blend in. Because those things had been impossible" ? Where are you on the personality spectrum of wanting to stand out versus wanting to blend in? Boy good question - I'm probably mid-spectrum - I really appreciate being recognized for some things, and that is important to me. But I don't like being the center of attention.
9. What do you think of Marilyn and James' courtship and marriage? What do you think happened in 1966 that made Marilyn disappear for a few days and do you think it is related to Lydia's disappearance and death? I think Marilyn took some time to decide if she wanted to continue on the mother path or go back to the education/career path. Its sad that in that time she really didn't have the option to do both.
Brie wrote: "28. The affair has been found out! Or at least very strongly confirmed. What do you think the fallout will be?In a perfect world, she (the wife who's name I forget) will have some gumption and be like DEUCES! and they will get divorced because some people just shouldn't be married. But, like I said, that's in my perfect world..."
Heh. I guess I always assumed that in a logical world the mom would just go back to school after the kids moved out. Heck, even after Lydia goes off to school, there's only Hannah left so you can do school and have kids. Dunno.. I guess this was the 70s...
Snowtulip wrote: "After reading through everyone's discussion questions, I'm really curious to see how everyone ends up liking this book.Day one I was liking it, but now it just makes me sadder as I continue readi..."
Exactly how I feel, ST. I ended up very depressed.
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18. Hannah has made a promise that she will find out what happened to Lydia. Do you think she feels guilty for not speaking up about what she saw the night Lydia disappeared?
Yes, she probably feels that if she had said something or done something differently it wouldn't have happened.
19. In Chapter 5 when the police stop to update the Lees, James seems embarrassed when Officer Fiske mentions Lydia's lack of friends, and Marilyn just talks about Lydia's school work and intelligence. Do you think this foreshadows something, or is this just fitting in with the theme of the book? Do you think the police are looking into Lydia's parents as suspects? Does their suspicion have merit?
I think the parents are always suspects in this situation.
20. Marilyn finds Lydia's hidden contraband. Do you think Lydia was really using these items, or were they placed there to gain attention?
I think she was smoking for sure because that was mentioned already in the book. I don't know about the condoms, but I would say she probably was or was anticipating needing them at least.
21. There seems to be some familial violence like Hannah being under the table when her parents are fighting and James slapping Nath when he asks about astronauts. Do you think this has always been this way, or only during stressful times like Lydia's death and Marilyn leaving? Do you think the violence plays a part in Lydia's death?
No, I don't think physical violence was a pattern, just an indication of frustrations at the time.
22. Even Marilyn, who was studying to be a doctor thinks of a "man" when she hears the word doctor? I work in the ER as a nurse. The male nurses are still mistaken for doctors and our female doctors are mistaken for nurses. Is anyone else guilty of thinking this way?
I don't think of it myself, but it is one stereotype that seems to hang on. When I taught elementary music and played a game called Dr. Katchel, every year a student would say something about a girl not being able to be a dr. It amazed me! This was still happening in the 90s!
23. Marilyn finds out she's pregnant with Hannah so she gives up on her schooling again. Do you think Marilyn resents Hannah because of this? Do you think this is why Hannah seems to be ignored by the rest of the family?
I do think it's an underlying reason for the way Hannah is treated.
24. During the scene where Nath pushes Lydia into the lake she seems to accept death and let herself drown. What do you think of this scene? Was she unhappy back at this point in her life?
I'm not sure what I think about that scene yet. I do think Lydia was feeling the burden of meeting her mother's expectations so as not to be abandoned again.