Circling The Sun - Reading Schedule and Discussion

[Amy]

Reading Schedule:

Nov 4: Chapter 1 - 16
Nov 11: Chapters 17 - 33
Nov 18:Chapters 34 - 50
Nov 25 Chapter 51 - end

Note: Discussion for each section will begin on the date listed. This book was one of my favorites for the year - I hope you can join us!

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Sounds good, Amy. Thank you for posting. :-) I have my copy!

[Rebecca]

I am still waiting for my copy. Will be reading this one.

[Amy]

Great - hope you can join us, Rebecca!

For those who have started reading: what is your first impression of Beryl from this book?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I am enjoying seeing more of Beryl as a person in this book. I hope it is an honest portrayal. We seem to be seeing more of what made her the independent, strong woman that she was (having her mother leave, etc)

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I am finding it interesting that now Beryl has a husband too, but he was never mentioned in her own book that I recall. Just like Karen never mentioned her husband in her book!

[Amy]

Sheila wrote: "I am finding it interesting that now Beryl has a husband too, but he was never mentioned in her own book that I recall. Just like Karen never mentioned her husband in her book!"

I know - that's why I thought it would be fund to read these together. The things that are left out of a story are often more revealing than what's told.

Now we have comparisons.

[Amy]

Beryl mentions how she felt that she belonged at her father's farm. Do you think that she felt this way about anything else (Africa, her relationships with specific people, etc.)?

[QueenAmidala28]

I'm joining but haven't received my copy yet - next in line at the library.

[Blueberry]

Amy wrote: "Sheila wrote: "I am finding it interesting that now Beryl has a husband too, but he was never mentioned in her own book that I recall. Just like Karen never mentioned her husband in her book!"

I k..."

I'm read The Lives of Beryl Markham now and finding out even more not mentioned in either book. An interesting point I hadn't realized was that Beryl mentioned only 2 women in the entire West with the Night book.

[Blueberry]

Amy wrote: "Beryl mentions how she felt that she belonged at her father's farm. Do you think that she felt this way about anything else (Africa, her relationships with specific people, etc.)?"

I think she felt she belonged with her friend's African tribe. (Can't remember his childhood name).

[Amy]

Blueberry wrote: "Amy wrote: "Sheila wrote: "I am finding it interesting that now Beryl has a husband too, but he was never mentioned in her own book that I recall. Just like Karen never mentioned her husband in her..."

I got the sense that she identified more with men than women. Did anyone else get that impression?

[Irene]

I finally started this one last night and read part 1. I am having a hard time connecting this voice with the voice in West With The Night. I think Beryl is a much better writer. This book sounds like a totally different person. If it were not for the events which overlap the two books, I would think we were reading about a completely new character. I am hoping this will get easier for me as Beryl grows up. I was horrified to read that Beryl's mother took the older brother and left this little girl with her father in a place that frightened the mother. What does that say about that mother? Who leaves their tiny child in an unsafe location while fleeing to safety herself?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Irene, I agree that the "voice" of Beryl in this book, is COMPLETELY different from the voice of Beryl in her own book.

I wonder what Beryl would think of this book? Would she have wanted her life story told in this way (especially being told in a first person narrative as opposed to just a biography) or would she be embarrassed by this voice she has been given?

[Irene]

I have read the remaining chapters for this week. Hearing about her self-doubts, her unreciprcated sexual initiatives with her husband, her feelings over her mother's abandonment, I also wondered what Beryl would have thought of this. I wonder how much the author found documented elsewhere and how much she projected onto Beryl based on her own reactions. I think I have a problem with books like this and The Paris Wife that put words into the mouth and feelings into the heads of recent people. I am concerned that readers will mistake the fictional construct for the real thing and the historical figure will be misremembered.

[Amy]

Irene wrote: "I have read the remaining chapters for this week. Hearing about her self-doubts, her unreciprcated sexual initiatives with her husband, her feelings over her mother's abandonment, I also wondered w..."

Thanks for your comment, Irene! This is one of the reasons I wanted to read these three books in succession - because it gives a different perspective. While the third book is fiction, it was based on research into Beryl's life. We also know that Beryl was selective about what she included in her memoir (but we don't know the reasons why she left some things out).


A side note: I do know that Hadley's family loved The Paris Wife and thought that the story represented Hadley and her personality very well. They were also grateful that she was finally remembered as something other than one of Hemingway's ex-wives.

[Irene]

I am glad to read that about Paris Wife.

I have a strange question. What color is the cover of this book? I am trying to complete a challenge in another group that needs a book with a cover in autumn colors, yellow, orange, brown, etc.

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

This would fit for your fall colors challenge, Irene. The cover is mostly yellow, with shades of orange and cream.

[Irene]

Thanks

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I cannot believe how many details we are getting about Beryl's life that she never mentioned at all in her own book. Random tidbits are making me realize this is the same person, but it is so strange that this Beryl is such a different person than Beryl's own Beryl.

I can almost compare this to having people present a Facebook version of themselves, the best things they put out there for the world to see and know about them, and then having a stranger come read their personal diary and talk to all their friends and neighbors, and make a second Facebook page pretending to be the person (since this book is written in Beryl's voice as if she is telling this story) and only post the dirt and the drama.

[Amy]

Sheila - I love the Facebook comparison!

I noticed that in Karen's book she didn't mention her husband at all (even though he was the reason she moved to Kenya), but he showed up in Beryl's book. Then in Beryl's book we didn't learn about her relationship with Denys or anything at all about her mother or other family relationships.

For me this has been somewhat of a lesson in selective story telling. The writing was great in all of these books, and while Karen and Beryl told the truth, they only told the parts they wanted revealed. For me, that makes the missing pieces a bit more meaningful.

[Amy]

Speaking of families, Beryl's mother left when she was very young. Do you feel that her father was a good parent? What about Beryl's perspective - do you think that Beryl thought he was a good parent?

[Irene]

I am feeling like a voyier reading this book. We do not know why Beryl left out the things she did. Maybe she wanted to carefully controll her public image as an independant, self-sufficient woman, maybe she thought her romantic relationships were as insignificant to her identity as the clothes she wore or the food she ate, maybe the social climate was too judgemental of multiple sexual partners or abandonment by a parent, maybe.... None of us would want the public to know the private details of our life. Most of us won't ever have to worry about that because we are too inconspicuous to catch the imagination of a novelist. Nonetheless, if I would not want it done to me, I feel uncomfortable doing it to another, especially in the first person. It is one thing to write a biography of a person who lived in the public arena; it is another thing to make it appear that you are accurately portraying the inner thoughts and feelings of a person who kept that private.

[Amy]

What are you learning about Beryl's relationships in this book? Do you think her own relationship with her parents impacted her own parenting style?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Beryl almost seems afraid to make real attachments to people. I wonder if it was due to having been abandoned by her mother, that she just didn't trust opening herself up to people. Maybe that is why she was so attached to Denys, because she knew he was a free spirit who would never settle down, so he was "safe".

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

I was also surprised to learn she had a son! That was not even hinted at in her book, though neither of her marriages was either. Interesting that the one who was apparently most loyal to her for her whole life was her childhood friend, who followed her everywhere in whatever she wanted to do, even after he had his own family.

[Amy]

Sheila wrote: "I was also surprised to learn she had a son! That was not even hinted at in her book, though neither of her marriages was either. Interesting that the one who was apparently most loyal to her for h..."

I got the impression that she bonded with him and often thought of herself as a member of his tribe (she would even go hunting with them).

Do you think her independence comes from having parents who didn't give her a lot of time?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

If I had to guess, I would say that yes, her independence did come from having been basically abandoned by her mother, and having a father that loved her but that didn't really know how to raise a child so he just left her to her own devices.

[Irene]

It probably did not help that she was married so young and that the marriage was so difficult. It seemed as if intimate relationships with men meant subserviance and the loss of her independence. Her friendship with that childhood friend did not seem like an equal one. She was the employer, the superior. She does not seem to have any really completely mutual relationship. I wonder if that is why she never writes about these in her memoir because no one is a true equal.

[Amy]

Irene wrote: "It probably did not help that she was married so young and that the marriage was so difficult. It seemed as if intimate relationships with men meant subserviance and the loss of her independence. H..."

How did you see her relationship with Denys? Did you feel like they were equals?

[Irene]

No, she came across as a love sick girl running after him while he set the tone of the relationship and held all the cards. The romantic Beryl in this novel did not match the independent woman I found in her own memoir. I liked the person I met in West With the Night much better than the one I met in this novel.

[Amy]

That's a great point, Irene. Beryl's memoir tells one version of her history while this book tells another. I'd be curious to get everyone's impression on the comparison of the two.

What differences were you able to see in the two portraits of Beryl? Did you like one more than another?

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Beryl's book tells her own version of her life, what she wanted to share.
This book tells a novelists take on what she "imagines" Beryl was thinking through all these events.

So while yes, it is historical fact that Beryl did have relationships with all these men, (and many others apparently), and she did have a child who was raised by her ex-husband's family in the UK, I'm not sure the voice of Beryl, and the thoughts of Beryl portrayed in this book are accurate.

Maybe this novelized Beryl is how the fictional author would have reacted in similar circumstances. But that does not mean that is how the real Beryl would have reacted.

I like the real Beryl better. But I enjoyed learning some of the history behind the real Beryl. I might have preferred this book to have been written from a different point of view though, other than Beryl's. I'm not sure this book does her justice (even though it is an interesting and enjoyable novel). What would the real Beryl think of how she is portrayed in this book?

[Amy]

Thanks to everyone who participated in this group read - I enjoyed your comments and hearing different perspectives!

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Thank you for suggesting all three of these books that we read back to back, Amy! I really enjoyed being able to compare the actual women to the fictional story!

[Irene]

Thanks for moderating the discussion.

[Patricia]

I just finished this a couple of nights ago & enjoyed it. I agree with Sheila that it was great reading the three books back to back to back. The books were written by 3 different people, giving different perspectives and added another dimension to the overall story. Interesting that we seem to read and learn more from the final book, though it was written by a later author, and not first-hand like the first two.

[Amy]

Patricia wrote: "I just finished this a couple of nights ago & enjoyed it. I agree with Sheila that it was great reading the three books back to back to back. The books were written by 3 different people, giving di..."

I'm glad that you enjoyed these books! Thanks for being a part of these reads and sharing your thoughts.