First Thoughts

[Hana]

Haha!! Loving that imaginary scene with the bill :D

I was so busy rolling my own eyes up to the ceiling that I almost missed seeing the Long-Suffering Look myself! It was priceless.

[Trudy]

Just my few cents' worth: Thornton was already calling Higgins a friend (in the book) before Margaret even left Milton. So I don't have any trouble with the way the mini-series portrayed this developing relationship.
And by all means, Gaskell provides us with a kiss. It's so subtly done, a modern reader might miss it - but it's most definitely there! The context surrounding the 'delicious silence' described leaves no doubt that we are given a satisfactory ending to two years' worth of angst!!

[Marquise]

Thank you, Becca, and you too, Hana! :)

I know quite a few people have the same problems you do with Thornton's introduction to the story, and the way that slightly changes the emphasis on Margaret's prejudice towards him. I can completely understand how it would annoy people, but personally it never annoyed me because the prejudice against violence seemed to slowly fade into the background, disappearing, say, near the beginning of Episode Two? To be more strongly replaced by Margaret's social prejudices as depicted in the book, as Margaret grew closer to her worker friends and witnessed the effects of the strike.

Yes, I can see that the social prejudices weren't obliterated. But they came later in the show, not in the beginning, so that about kills the literary symmetry that I so like about this novel's plot, the going full circle with Margaret's arc growth. If the origins of the prejudice come along the way in a later episode, then it doesn't work the same way, and again they miss the point of Margaret's prejudice comes from herself and not the exterior, so it's important plot-wise that she overcomes it due to becoming a more mature woman, instead of just because she came to know Thornton isn't so bad as she thought before. The Higginses just reinforce her already prejudiced view, which comes from her previous experience at the mill, so that doesn't really work the same way either. This just smells too strongly of director/producers' decision, and wasn't taken due to the restrictions of TV or another reason we could sympathise with, which is also another reason I don't like it.

On the Thornton/Higgins dynamics, part of my comment of them being chummier in the serials came from the visualisation of their interaction too, not just from the added details like the little boy learning to read, the meals in the common room, etc. It's also that we "see" their body language and facial expressions. I didn't include this observation in my previous comments, but I was impressed by the use of body language and hands to get the emotion across to the viewer. When Margaret and Thornton shake hands for the first time, the camera zooms-in on their joined hands, and a second time again. And that visual language speaks louder than words. Something similar happens with Higgins and Thornton, if you look closely, the camera roams forward to a close-up of the men.

On the other hand, though, I had some vague thoughts that the better relationship between worker and master may also be a product of the same political correctness that had a say in the class prejudice issue, because it does convey some left-leaning mores that still appeal to the current trade/factory environment in which unions are powerful.

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽]

Hana wrote: "Re Henry: Of course he's going to hit them with legal bills! Don't forget this is the era of Bleak House and Jardyce and Jardyce and the lawyers always got paid!"

I don't know about always, but if you want to keep the lawyers working for you, then yes. Und ve haff vays uff making you pay! :D

[Hana]

Tadiana wrote: "...if you want to keep the lawyers working for you, then yes. Und ve haff vays uff making you pay! :D ..."

*rolling on ground laughing* As I typed that comment the thought went through my mind: "Uh oh! I bet I'll hear from Tadiana!" LOL I never did agree with Shakespeare on lawyers--we all know we really need you guys!

[QNPoohBear]

The ending of the mini-series is so beautifully romantic that it's one of the only times I can separate my historian self from my romantic happily-ever-after loving self. No it's not realistic, but it's just so beautiful that I have to accept it for what it is. Plus it's a film and to do it inside would have been more difficult and not as visually beautiful.

I do have a problem with all the kissing in Jane Austen except you know... when it's Colin Firth ...

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽]

:) Okay, so I just have to say that the ironic thing about that Shakespeare quote ("First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers") is that it's actually meant as a compliment to lawyers. That line is spoken by a bad guy who wants a political takeover of the country, and he's afraid that the lawyers will stand in the way of such illegal maneuvering and anarchy. So we are the good guys!

[Hana]

Qnpoohbear--my thinking exactly on the ending. And all the kissing except...when it's Colin Firth :D

And I'll now have to add on all that kissing: "except, you know...when its Richard Armitage!"

[Hana]

Wonderful Tadiana! I never knew the context for that quote :))

[QNPoohBear]

Hana wrote: "Qnpoohbear--my thinking exactly on the ending. And all the kissing except...when it's Colin Firth :D

And I'll now have to add on all that kissing: "except, you know...when its Richard Armitage!""

Exactly! Ciran Hinds as Capt. Wentworth can go around kissing Anne Elliot in public places all he wants too.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Qnpoohbear wrote: "The ending of the mini-series is so beautifully romantic that it's one of the only times I can separate my historian self from my romantic happily-ever-after loving self. No it's not realistic, but..."

Good for you, Qnpoohbear! :) My historian self is far more easily pushed into the background than most people's, but what you just said perfectly sums up my feelings.

... Though I agree with Hana, we need to add Richard Armitage to list of people that we're okay with having kissing scenes in period pieces. :D

[Louise Sparrow]

I don't mind them kissing at the end if it's tastefully done. (I'm grinding my teeth over those Jane Austen adaptations though.) Richard, of course, can do anything he likes ;)

Going back to Henry, my interpretation was that he'd realised Margaret's feelings for Thornton and was not happy but arranged for privacy only so that he would not be disturbed in a business meeting by Edith. I think only later did he decide that he didn't need to be there and would, for his own sake rather not be there.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Louise Sparrow wrote: "Richard, of course, can do anything he likes. ;)"

Of course! :D

Going back to Henry..."

Thank you! You've managed to say what I've been trying to say for the last couple of days, and with far more success. :) I agree with you completely.

[Ceri]

I suppose that could be the way it was but I don't see it. He's an intelligent bloke, he would have twigged straight away the reasoning behind Margaret's request. Then he comes out and is insistent they don't get disturbed. I think it's a deliberate attempt to help things along and I give Henry credit for that.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Could I suggest a compromise and admit to the possibility that the truth could be somewhere in between these two views? Perhaps he originally was feeling somewhat bitter and his request to Edith was only from a business perspective, but sometime later he realised the easiest way to help Margaret and let her go - at the same time saving himself pain - was to allow her to meet Thornton alone?

[Ceri]

Nah, let's not compromise, let's rather just let Mrs Gaskell settle it: "nobody knows" why he didn't keep his appointment - she left it up to the reader to determine :)

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

:D Fair enough then. Though that is a type of compromise in itself; you are right, it is best to let the author decide. Or rather, to let the reader take what they will from her writing. :) In that case, I shall continue to be self-satisfied in disliking Henry, while acknowledging that I can be a little harsh on him sometimes.