First Thoughts

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

LOL! That's about the most accurate description I've ever heard of Fanny. EVER. :D

[Samanta]

:D :D

[Aerykah]

Just a thought... Perhaps Fanny is mostly like her father -- she doesn't seem at all like her mother & brother, after all (who are quite alike, I think) -- and Mrs. Thornton just had no idea how to get through to her. Could easily cause her to put more effort into her other child. Not saying that's the case, it's just an idea that popped into my head.

Also, I just have to ask -- Does anyone actuallly like Mr. Bell?

[Sophie, ~I've seen hell, and it's white...~]

I am with Samantha re Fanny Thornton.

And I seem to remember her age being said once .... 19...??

[QNPoohBear]

If I remember correctly, Fanny was at school when her father died and John struggled to keep her there and in ignorance of what had happened. He worked himself to the bone to keep her and their mother in the style they were accustomed to. I think Fanny represents Mrs. Gaskell's viewpoint of female education of the day. Margaret is the heroine so I think was can safely conclude that Mrs. Gaskell believed that women could and should be intelligent and aware of business and current events (i.e. educated like boys).

I like Mr. Bell! His intentions are always well meant, at least in his mind. He likes to cause mischief but it's mostly harmless. He does make Margaret an heiress at the end so we should like him! He could have left her penniless and at the mercy of her aunt and Edith where she'd end up governess to Edith's children. (That might not be such a bad idea such Edith is so frivolous).

[Sophie, ~I've seen hell, and it's white...~]

(Can't find an age by looking online so I amuse we aren't told. But I think she is 19/20 ish)

[Aerykah]

RE: Mr.Bell
Well, didn't he promise Mr. Hale that he would take care of her?
It's not like he was a bad man... he wasn't. And I did like him better at the end. But he annoyed & aggravated me most of the time.

[Sophie, ~I've seen hell, and it's white...~]

He was nice to Margaret at the end and he was generally well intentioned. When Margaret was getting annoyed at his insinuations and interferences, she asks him to stop being nosey basically and he does. So I don't kind Mr Bell to be honest. (In episode 3)

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

I like Mr Bell! I think he is always very kind, and generally well meaning, his intelligence and humour are often very diverting, and his easy manners appealing. However, there are times when he takes his love of witty remarks and causing mischief too far, which is when he really, really pisses me off. Because some of the things he says are actually quite cruelly pointed, or at the very least cause people hurt or embarrassment.

[Louise Sparrow]

My idea of fanny is not that she was neglected but that she was deliberately sheltered from the realities of life. The Thorntons are not an upper class family, they’ve made their money in trade by hard work. But now they have money, Mrs Thornton will never be a born lady but she was determined that Fanny should be… she was proud of what John accomplished and looked down her nose at those who didn’t work and yet she had her daughter learn refinements like music rather than business, but didn’t have the refinement herself to guide Fanny. The effort of course is wasted since Fanny grows up into a spoilt brat who doesn’t appreciate the value of anything.

For the most part I did like Mr Bell, but I think the adaptation makes him seem a little creepy at first in his interest in Margaret, I’m not sure I felt that way when I read the book.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

That's a very good way of expressing Fanny's situation, Louise! I agree with you completely. :)

I don't think creepy quite describes Mr Bell... a little unsettling, perhaps?

[Kate]

I like Mr. Bell but I confess to liking those who dedicate their lives to a University, and I always prefer my professors to be a little self-centered because I find it goes along with huge subject knowledge.

I always think that at least in the series version, Mr. Bell has gotten to the end of his life and actually envies Mr. Hale for having left university life and married and engaged with the world even while Mr. Hale envies Mr. Bell's freedom to focus on intellectual work. His feeling like he's "come home" has a dual meaning, then.

But as portrayed in the series I do agree Mr. Bell has a bit of pervycreep going on.

Oh! Probably shouldn't be posting in this thread now we've got others!

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

I hadn't really thought about the jealousy aspect, Kate, but on reflection I think you're right. Mr Bell doesn't let on an awful lot, but he does during that one scene with Margaret allow a glimpse of his regrets. I feel a bit sorry for the guy, really. Though not as sorry as I felt for Mr Hale, every time he says he feels like he's come home, I just about burst into tears, because... well, we know what happens right after that.

:D It's so funny seeing you all describe Mr Bell as creepy! I never thought he was quite that bad.

Hehe, I'm sure we can post on this thread and the others. :)

[Aerykah]

Becca wrote: ":D It's so funny seeing you all describe Mr Bell as creepy! I never thought he was quite that bad."

You should have heard my niece's reaction to him... She definitely thought he was creepy! ;P

[Robin]

I've come to this really late. Sorry!

I watched the mini-series via Netflix so am I correct in believing that there are some differences to what is on the DVD (that I HAVE to get my hands on)?

I've been trying to get a copy of the book since I first watched the series Thursday (and have watched 4 times since lol!) but none of the bookstores have it in stock and my local (itty bitty small town) library doesn't have it.

[Louise Sparrow]

You can download the book free from Amazon Robin, if that's any help :)

[Robin]

Louise wrote: "You can download the book free from Amazon Robin, if that's any help :)"

Not really as I don't do ereaders. :) The aggravating thing is the closest library to me is actually in the next county (where I used to live) and they canceled my library card when I went in to change my name (I innocently said I needed to change my address not realizing what that would mean...if I'd kept my mouth shut they'd never have known lol!) and they have TWO copies on the shelf right now. :)

[Sophie, ~I've seen hell, and it's white...~]

The book (especially a second hand one) wouldn't be too expensive to buy on amazon and things I wouldn't have thought, because it is a classic. (Which is also where you can get your hands on the DVD)

[Kate]

Hey Robin, I'm not sure where you live, but your library should be able to borrow a copy for you on interlibrary loan (probably one of those two nearby!) or possibly they offer reciprocal borrowing so you can go with your new library card to your old library and borrow theirs.
(Your friendly neighborhood librarian, sorry they made your life difficult, wishing libraries weren't paid for by local taxes so you wouldn't have had such trouble!)

[Robin]

Thanks. :) I went ahead and bought it off Amazon along with the DVD since there seem to be some things on there that are not in the Netflix version. :)

[Marquise]

As promised to Becca, I want to share my initial thoughts after watching the BBC adaptation for TV of “North and South.” These are my own thoughts, I haven’t read anyone else’s yet, for I wanted to form mine first without any influencing, which is also why I didn’t watch the show or saw pictures before finishing the book. Hope there’s a scrap of sense in all this rambling :).

My very first thought after finishing was that the adaptation had followed the book fairly closely; which for someone inclined to book purism is always a pleasant detail. Of course, there are differences, dictated by the distinctive resources of visual media for the most part, but others seemed to be directorial or producers’ decisions, in the beginning and at the end most obviously.

I watched Episode 1 first, then marathon-watched the rest. I was struck by four changes from the book, one of which has stayed with me and become my biggest niggling issue with the serials: the manner in which Margaret and Thornton meet for the first time. In the book, Margaret is heavily prejudiced against Thornton even before she meets him, and the source is her classism; she looks down on traders and at one point even says that it’s a pity that Thornton’s agreeable nature is “tainted” by his being a trader, which is quite harsh and gives a poor impression of her. I can understand that the scriptwriters would decide to modify that to make it more palatable for the audience that’s likely to sympathise with trading in today’s world, and also because it’s a big no-no in the book of film writing to make the chief protagonist be so politically incorrect as to grate on modern sensibilities, unless it’s a show with a plot premise requiring absolutely that the character be anti-heroic, too flawed, or even villainous due to necessities the storyline. In Margaret’s case, however, that change was a poor decision because for her the prejudice on trade is intrinsic to her character development, it’s the overcoming of that prejudice and embracing her love for a tradesman what culminates a great character growth. From disliking traders to falling in love with and helping a trader financially, as I said in my book review, is a great use of literary symmetry.

True, they’ve kept Margaret’s prejudiced view, but the source isn’t there: it comes from seeing Thornton beating an employee at the mill he owns, and obviously she’s going to jump to the wrong conclusion and condemn him for a brutal master abusing the poor worker for apparently no valid reason that she can see, and so the next time they meet, formally this time, she berates him for that and is herself exposed as an ignorant chit. Yet the viewer can forgive her that on account of her just not knowing, since that’s no biggie, instead of holding her accountable for a character flaw as when reading the book version. In short, they’ve made her misjudge him for physical violence instead of social snobbery, thus it’s like they’re trying to attach a “good” motivation to Margaret’s misguided first impression of him. It’s not that she’s a snob, it’s that he beats the proletarian. And then, there’s the fact that she was inside the mill in the first place, for in the book Margaret doesn’t go to see the factories and know for herself the working conditions of the people, and in one occasion is called out on that. To me, this was the ugly blotch of mud on the elsewise spotless adaptation, and I grew more bothered when I saw the ending.

Next thing I noticed was that Mr Hale is a stronger character here; he isn’t such a weakling and there’s no withholding the news of the move to Milton, which may have also propelled him upwards in the sympathy ladder given how criticised he is for that. Mrs Hale is a whining nonentity in the book, but in the serials the actress was able to infuse some life of her own into her. Overall, all the actors did well in their roles, and that accounts for the quality of the adaptation.

Another major change, this an omission, that I didn’t like was that they walked past the confession of Thornton over an unconscious Margaret after she’s wounded trying to shield him from the rioters. It doesn’t impact the plot, though, so this is mostly a complaint on purely sentimental grounds, as I’d have loved to see and hear Armitage doing that little speech. Speaking of said actor, the wee detail that Armitage’s so handsome made the scene in which his character tells his mother that he can’t believe such a woman would have him unintentionally hilarious. I was itching to gift the man with a mirror and tell him, “Thornton, when was the last time you had a good long look at that pretty face of yours?”

The show also plays less subtly with pitting Henry against Thornton as romantic rivals for Margaret’s hand, and both are more aware of that than in the book. I am fine with it, as it’s not so exaggerated from the text source as to be heavy-handed, but the original character of Miss Latimer inserted as a potential rival for Margaret smelt too much of typical Hollywood romance formula exported overseas; and I do object to that. There’s as well a notable distinction in the relationship between Higgins and Thornton, portrayed as chummier, they share meals, and Margaret doesn’t get caught talking to Higgins disparagingly about Thornton when he is refused work at his mill. Now that I think about it, all the Hales got a good deal of their more bothersome traits, sayings and deeds ironed out in the TV portrayal, in varying degrees. The courtesy wasn’t extended to Mrs Thornton and Fanny, though, both of which are just as slap-worthy as in the book.

And finally the ending . . . Oh, the ending! I loved the ending in the book, and I’ve quickly thrown the whole passage in my Favourite Literary Quotes folder. It has everything: tension, tenderness, happiness, love, hopefulness. Everything but something: Gaskell didn’t show a single, much-awaited, paltry, blasted kiss!

*seethes*

Ahem . . . there have been great romance plots and sub-plots that end up without the couple doing the deed, or even sharing some unchaste kiss at one point or another, so this is mostly a jest and it’s not the absence of kissing that I’m lamenting. It’s rather the abruptness of the book’s ending. We don’t get to see the reactions of anyone, not even enough of Margaret and Thornton’s own, and although I can appreciate the argument that that last conversation contains all the clues we need to guess how their relationship will evolve, I still believe it does feel like there could’ve been at least a few more paragraphs before wrapping the story up to achieve a smoother cut of the line. The serials achieved that, I liked the added bits to the ending, with Margaret and John going home on the train, “home” implied to be Milton. It’s more heartfelt, more impactful that way. For that, I’m going to turn heretical for once and say that I give an edge to the serial over the book in my preference.

Oh, and Daniela Denby-Ashe is in no way like my “headcanon” Margaret, not at all, quite the contrary. My Margaret is darker and with a different face-shape, even her voice sounds different in my head. But with regard to the male character, Richard Armitage is John Thornton and John Thornton is Richard Armitage, and I’ll refuse to think otherwise :D.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Thanks for such a detailed response, Marquise! :)

I know quite a few people have the same problems you do with Thornton's introduction to the story, and the way that slightly changes the emphasis on Margaret's prejudice towards him. I can completely understand how it would annoy people, but personally it never annoyed me because the prejudice against violence seemed to slowly fade into the background, disappearing, say, near the beginning of Episode Two? To be more strongly replaced by Margaret's social prejudices as depicted in the book, as Margaret grew closer to her worker friends and witnessed the effects of the strike.

I think all the actors did a fantastic job in their roles too. :) As to the riot scene - it is a shame that they left out Thornton's precise words from the book, as he stood over Margaret's unconscious body, but I feel that what they replaced it with was equally emotionally powerful. And honestly, I think Armitage did an unbelievably brilliant job during that scene. I think he and Sinead also did a great job of the "I can't believe such a woman would care for me..." scene as well - I can see why Thornton's looks might make such a comment amusing to some, but me, I'm always sitting there sniffling in sympathy. I thought that scene was perfect.

So what did you think about the slightly changed dynamic in the relationship between Higgins and Thornton? Personally, I loved it, I thought it was great - and especially adorable seeing Thornton helping the Boucher child with his reading.

I am so glad that you loved the ending! Isn't it lovely? :) *sigh* It is such a beautiful scene, and it wraps everything up so well - I agree with everything you said about it.

Concerning Daniela, I agree that she doesn't quite fit the description of Margaret in the book, but to me she always felt so much like Margaret that I didn't really mind. Her looks may have been a little out of place, but everything else about her was spot on. And yes, John Thornton was spot on too. :D

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts!

[Hana]

Oh Marquise!!! This comment has so many wonderful layers to it that I'm going to take some time thinking about and commenting on each of your points.

I finished my first read as the group got started and then began rereading. I'm midway through my second read of the book. I finished a marathon view of the mini-series and I'm now reviewing the episodes roughly in line with my book reread.

I am a major fan of the BBCs version of Pride and Prejudice and Bleak House. I appreciate both the possibilities and limitations of the film medium, but I have to agree with Marquise that this adaptation does not quite measure up to the novel, even though it would get a four star rating from me--down only one point from the book's five stars.

I'm picking up many of the same clues that Marquise notes that suggest that the producers are not wholly comfortable with Gaskell's perceived political/social views. The irony is that that Victorians were not comfortable with her either!

There are so many subtle and interesting ways the film and book differ that it would be fun to discuss in more detail. Perhaps we could set up some separate book-film comparison threads. I'm happy to help if needed.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Hana wrote: "There are so many subtle and interesting ways the film and book differ that it would be fun to discuss in more detail. Perhaps we could set up some separate book-film comparison threads. I'm happy to help if needed."

We do actually have a thread for that! :) It's in the "Discussions: Book and Series" folder, and the specific thread is called "Book or Series?" I think it would be lovely to return to debating that topic, though I'm starting to feel like I might be outnumbered in preferring the series...

[Hana]

No, no! I love them both, but in different ways :)

And Richard Armitage really is Thornton. And I'm in love!!!

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Hana wrote: "No, no! I love them both, but in different ways :)

And Richard Armitage really is Thornton. And I'm in love!!!"

*phew* :D

He really was so perfect in that role, wasn't he? <3 (How could they have almost overlooked him? *angry mumbling*)

[Louise Sparrow]

Do you think Higgins and Thornton too friendly in the later series? I got the impression that it was the way things were going in the book, he was invited to join the men now and then, they talked openly and Thornton was beginning to consider Higgins a friend. I thought the series did a good job of portraying things that we only hear about second hand in the book.

And perhaps this is a discussion to take to the book thread but if they didn't kiss, how do you think she 'paid' him for the flower?

[Hana]

She paid him with a kiss--even Victorians would have been okay with that :)

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

I completely agree with you, Louise - I think the series expressed perfectly a relationship that actually was in the book... but there's so much else going on that we only ever hear of it second hand. It's only hinted at and not fully examined, which is a shame, really.

As to the question about the kiss: (view spoiler)[I believe near the end of the novel there's a phrase referring to 'delicious silence', which I take to mean that they did, in fact, kiss in the novel. I think what certain book or time-period purists tend to object to is that the series had Margaret and John kissing at a public train station, rather than in a private room. And John wasn't wearing his cravat! *shock horror* :D (hide spoiler)]

[Louise Sparrow]

Definitely, it didn't need to be described in detail.

[Hana]

Ahhh....the kiss....I think Becca's on target on the producers' decision here. Love the detail about the cravat!

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Thanks Hana. :) I tend to be quite accepting of the views that people would have had of society back in the 1800's, but much as I've tried I can still never get past my amusement that they would have considered "cravat-less" essentially equal to "undressed". :D

[Ceri]

Becca, that is just the problem I have with the end of the series, is that (view spoiler)[storywise it could just as well have happened in private and then been more believable and more classy behaviour. Plus I hate how rude it is to Henry, and how he'd have had to have gone back to London and somehow find the words to explain it, would have been excruciatingly embarrassing for him which isn't fair, even though I'm not a Henry fan. I think the book ending is far kinder to Henry. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Ceri wrote: "Becca, that is just the problem I have with the end of the series, is that [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I can honestly understand why that might trouble you, but I can say with equal honesty that such considerations have never troubled me in the least. I think that having John without his cravat (among the many clues given by Armitage) shows perfectly his state of mind. Furthermore, I actually love the kiss at the train station. It shows the strength of their love that they have ceased to care about such small considerations as what others might think of them.

And... I don't really care about Henry either. He's a lawyer, he'd find a way to explain it. I do have some sympathy for him, but he'd get over it soon enough. Overall I simply find that final scene in the series to be utterly beautiful that I will never utter a complaint against it. (hide spoiler)]

[Ceri]

We've agreed to disagree on this point before Becca :) (view spoiler)[I really dislike filmmakers insistence for public displays of affection and I dislike them even more in period pieces. It isn't classy behaviour, especially back then. He was the area's magistrate and had a certain level to uphold in society. It's a beautiful kiss and I would have loved it if they'd done it in a more appropriate setting, but as it is I was disappointed at the opportunity they missed to create something both romantic and in keeping with the period.

Owww, unkind towards poor Henry. If it wasn't for the book ending and the actions he takes there I wouldn't be as bothered about his feelings though Margaret actually likes him and I think it would be out of character for her to be so lacking in compassion towards somebody who was one of her closest friends in London. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Ceri wrote: "We've agreed to disagree on this point before Becca :) I really dislike filmmakers insistence for public displays of affection and I dislike them even more in period pieces. It isn't classy behavio..."

Yes, indeed we have. :)
(view spoiler)[Fair enough, I suppose. :) I can't say I'll ever agree with you - though you express yourself very eloquently - mainly because I don't think there's anything anyone could do to make me say a harsh word about that scene. But I do understand your point of view, and I know there are others more concerned with authenticity who would agree with you. :)

Haha, okay, maybe it was a little unkind to Henry, but I think accusing Margaret of a lack of compassion is also a little harsh. I mean, honestly, if you've just realised that the man you love is actually still in love with you, despite everything he's said, would you really be thinking about the somewhat insipid man standing behind you? The one who had somewhat arrogantly proposed to you a couple of years ago, before actually understanding your character? I know I wouldn't. And when Margaret is released from the emotional intensity of the moment, she does realise that Henry might be hurt, and speaks to him very gently and apologetically. (hide spoiler)]

[Ceri]

Well, (view spoiler)[we might see him that way but she doesn't see him as insipid, only by comparison to lovely John. At the beginning of the book it says something along the lines of him being her closest friend in London so although she should put her relationship before his feelings I feel that if it had played out like that she's just not being very compassionate towards him knowing that he has feelings for her, he'll have to face the family back in London who are probably expecting Margaret & Henry to become engaged and instead he will come back without her because she's picked up another man in a train station. And she gets Henry to drop the bombshell for her (like Mr Hale's not telling his wife the news re moving away from Helsone!)

Have you read the end of the book yet? I thought the Henry bit there was touching, it makes me like him much better than adaptation Henry and because I read the book first and so knew that he was nicer underneath it all than they gave him credit for on screen it seemed a little unkind. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

Ceri wrote: "Well, we might see him that way but she doesn't see him as insipid, only by comparison to lovely John. At the beginning of the book it says something along the lines of him being her closest friend..."

(view spoiler)[ Perhaps not, no; but definitely in comparison to John. You make some very good points - I just feel that in this case, the word "compassion" doesn't really enter into the equation. I mean, honestly, what do you expect her to say? "Sorry John, I do love you and I truly do want to come home with you, especially when you're smiling at me like that, but I just have to nip off home and tell everyone we're engaged, to spare Henry a little bit of embarrassment." Somehow I have a feeling that wouldn't go down all too well. :D And I think calling it picking up another man at a train station is a bit harsh - after all, it only happened at a train station because Margaret didn't see Mr. Thornton in Milton, where she had originally intended to put her financial proposal to him.

I have, but not this time around - the last time I read the novel was seven or eight months ago. I do remember him saying something nice, and I repeat that I do have some sympathy for him. But in the grand scheme of things - it's probably horrible of me - I just don't care all that much about Henry. Sorry! (hide spoiler)]

[Ceri]

(view spoiler)[I just think it was silly to do it at a train station, LOL. I was just being facetious re. picking up, it is sucking the romance out of it and putting it in very prosaic terms to say she picked up a man at a train station, and technically he picked her up anyway :)

In the book, now that I know that you know how it all came about it's no spoiler to say. Henry didn't just say something sweet, he did something selfless that showed he genuinely cared for Margaret. Henry arranged their meeting so that they would be alone, I wonder how long it would have been before they could come to an understanding without that bit of help on Henry's part. He had quite high hopes at that point that Margaret was coming round to the idea of marrying him, and once he realises how she feels for Thornton he straightaway does what he can to bring them together which I always thought is a nice touch as he could have tried to keep them apart, it's not like they were likely to meet very often. He probably sped things up by a fair bit for the woman he wanted to marry to marry somebody else. (hide spoiler)]

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

(view spoiler)[ Eh, well, perhaps - but as usual we can just agree to disagree. :) And it was rather prosaic, yes, but facetious can be fun sometimes. :D

I just skipped forward to re-read the part you are referring to, and you'll probably be very irritated at me, but I don't place quite so much value on Henry's action as you do. Yes, I agree that not turning up to the meeting and making it easier for the pair could have been - and perhaps was - a very selfless thing to do, but the way I've previously read that part is that Henry simply realised he had no hope of being accepted by Margaret, and as such he didn't want to prolong the agonies, so to speak.

From what I just read, am I right in thinking it was Margaret who arranged the meeting, and the only thing Henry did was not turn up? (Well, and ensure that no-one would interrupt Thornton and Margaret). I still think things would have happened more or less the same way whether Henry attended the meeting or not - Thornton would have realised Margaret cared for him as soon as her offer of financial support for the mill was brought to light. Please understand that I do have a fair amount of sympathy for Henry, but I do not see him as incredibly instrumental in bringing the two lovers together, nor have I previously believed that he avoided the meeting out of any other feeling than bitterness. I could be wrong, or needlessly harsh, but that's the way it has always seemed to me. (hide spoiler)]

[Ceri]

That's interesting, I interpret it the opposite way to you. I think the hints are that he did it for the right reasons, otherwise why would he make sure in advance they wouldn't be disturbed?

And on a practical level if there had been other people there when the business proposal was made T couldn't have said anything, and I'm guessing business would have taken him back up North ASAP, it is easily plausible that it may have taken longer, and it smoothed the way for them anyway so though I'm not a Henry fan I give him full credit for his actions here.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

I don't actually read his reasons as being the wrong reasons... I just don't give him as much credit for nobility of character as you do. :) I concede the point that it was nice of him to make sure they weren't disturbed, though again I'm not sure of the difference it would have made.

You make another good point, but honestly I think with such encouragement, either Thornton or Margaret would have written to each other or gone to see the other again in the very near future. So while I don't give Henry credit for being the reason Margaret and John are together, I can agree that he made the way smoother, whatever his reasons might have been. I don't know, maybe I'm just being unkind to him because he annoys me, but if so then so be it. :)

[Hana]

Ceri wrote: "That's interesting, I interpret it the opposite way to you. I think the hints are that he did it for the right reasons, otherwise why would he make sure in advance they wouldn't be disturbed?..."

I just re-read that section and watched the 4th Episode and I'm with Ceri on her Henry interpretation. He finally figured out which way the wind was blowing (took him long enough!) but then deliberately choose not to come to the meeting and made sure they would be alone.

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

See, I totally agree with that! I just think there might have been a teensy tiny bit of bitterness and hopelessness mixed in there.

[Hana]

Aerykah wrote: "Also, I just have to ask -- Does anyone actuallly like Mr. Bell? "

I like the book Mr. Bell very much indeed, but the mini-series made him seem a little creepy.

Fanny seemed to me to have been overplayed in the film--she was bad enough in the book, but gosh! That irritating little tune she was humming...*grits teeth*!

[Hana]

Becca wrote: "See, I totally agree with that! I just think there might have been a teensy tiny bit of bitterness and hopelessness mixed in there."

True, but don't feel too badly. Think of all the 'billable hours' he can charge Margaret and Thornton for legal services ;) That should take some of the sting away!

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

re. Mr Bell: I actually like him in both the book and the series, though there was that little bit of a creepy feeling in the series... plus he opened his mouth to cause trouble one too many times, I think.

re. Fanny: I was happy with her portrayal in the film; irritating, yes, but rather accurate! Haha, the tune... not to mention her awful piano playing! Though I didn't mind that in the least, seeing as it opened up the opportunity to give that fantastic long-suffering look at the ceiling. :D

re. Henry: Hey, I think we've established I never feel all that sorry for Henry. :D I would laugh so much if he actually stung them with legal bills! That would be beyond petty, but literally hilarious.

[Hana]

Re Henry: Of course he's going to hit them with legal bills! Don't forget this is the era of Bleak House and Jardyce and Jardyce and the lawyers always got paid!

[Hana]

re Fanny: lol I loved the long suffering look at the ceiling :D

[Rebecca, ~Look back. Look back at me...~]

re. Henry: Oh goodness, now I'm going to be up all night trying to imagine the looks on Margaret's and John's faces when they get a bill from Henry for his help in getting the two of them back together... *rolling on the floor laughing*

re. Fanny: I actually didn't notice it until relatively recently - probably a couple of months ago - but now I get a huge smile on my face every time I see it. :D Richard gets my vote for "Best Long-Suffering Look at a Ceiling" any day. Though it'd be interesting trying to find other contestants...