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Your opinion please. Is this ethical?
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Patti (baconater)
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Oct 20, 2015 03:31AM
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"instruct your friends and family how to write reviews - they'll have a template they can follow?" NO
The only point from the "free bonus download" that seems ok is the one suggesting the template "Please review my book" to include in a book.Perhaps you should add a comment at the bottom. ;)
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with asking someone you don't know to review your book. But giving templates to friends and family? No, no, no. That is one of the quickest way to get a bad reputation.
I've just waded through the whole presentation. Apart from the friends and family thing, the rest seems okay.
Nope. Templates are going to be spotted a mile off, I reckon. I also don't like to have people collar me out of the blue for a review. I'm not a reviewer so much as a reader who reviews which means I choose what I read as any other reader would.
I couldn't be bothered to watch the full 27 minutes (and at the moment I don't have time) but frankly the whole template idea is dodgy and the idea of issuing to family and friends does push the boundaries of morality.Mind you given I must clock up about the lowest number of reviews of anybody anywhere, I'm hardly the person to make pronouncements on how to get more
Jim wrote: " the whole template idea is dodgy and the idea of issuing to family and friends does push the boundaries of morality.Mind you given I must clock up about the lowest number of reviews of anybody anywhere, I'm hardly the person to make pronouncements on how to get more "
It is immoral and deceitful. That tells you much about the authors who employ such tactics and partly justifies Amazon's attempts to catch them out.
It also says something about readers - do they really buy a book based on the number of reviews it has? Are they all sheep-like, following the most 'popular' trail? Or do they, like me, ferret out stuff that I find interesting.
I have only ever done one 'review swap' and am pretty sure the other half didn't even read my book. It's not difficult to identify that review. (Sorry Jim - I've probably got less reviews than you!)
While I believe that reviews should be encouraged, I'm not keen on soliciting them from casual readers. It's their opinion and their choice if they want to share it.I place no caveats on my friends or family that they must review my work. If anything, I would rather my family didn't review it publicly, because too many "glowing" reviews appears dishonest.
When I give my book away for review, I fully expect an honest opinion of my work, in the same way that I would hope they don't damn it because it conflicts with their own/a friends piece.
Besides, I feel privileged when someone decides to offer their unsolicited opinion on my writing, good or bad because they've taken the time to offer it.
Is it immoral? That's a bit of an ethical grey area. Writing them yourself is definitely wrong, but asking for a review and making the process easy for the reviewer if they choose to act on your request, that's a different story. Even if it does look hella dodgy if they're all in the same format.
Personally, I wouldn't do it that way.
Bless your cotton socks, (I love that saying. It's just yummy. Makes me think of warm soup.)You authory types need validation. Positive reviews give you that validation.
No, you don't need validation. You need positive reviews to get your book in the realm of recognition.
I'm chuffed that I know so many authors that are worthy of recognition.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Bless your cotton socks, (I love that saying. It's just yummy. Makes me think of warm soup.)You authory types need validation. Positive reviews give you that validation.
No, you don't need validat..."
that about sums it up.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Bless your cotton socks, (I love that saying. It's just yummy. Makes me think of warm soup.)You authory types need validation. Positive reviews give you that validation.
No, you don't need validat..."
You probably know more than you realize as there are the quiet ones who read, agree, but don't reply and then there's the ones who look but say 'I mustn't get involved today as this is my ring-fenced writing time', and so on.
My reviews, few though they are, are treasured and genuine and I'm extremely grateful for those who have taken the time to leave a review. (Just don't mention the one and two star ones on the US Amazon site!)
And bless your cotton and woolly socks too.
And is this ethical?!I have received 3 friend requests like this:
Harinsota said: "Hello, I saw your latest ebook on Amazon. From the synopsis it looks like a high quality ebook. If you are interested, I can provide you with an honest, insightful and balanced review. The review will generally be of 100-400 words (depending on the ebook). Please visit http://exzorders.com/review-policy/ if this is something you are interested in. You can check my sample reviews and testimonials on that website too. I reach out to authors like you because I love to read new stories :) If you like what you see please fill in the form below to submit your ebook for review (it is totally free to submit an ebook review request): https://secure.mailjol.net/allforms/u... Please note: For some time authors have asked me to get their reviews done faster. Due to my busy schedule and ongoing freelance projects (which are what pay my bills), I am not always able to review books submitted to me within a reasonable timeframe (I have 100s of ebooks in my library I am yet to review). As such, I of"
It goes on to ask for money for a quicker review.
I flagged the last two (from Harinsota and Garinsota - yes really) but I have now received this latest.
Anyone else receiving these?
They are acquiring a few friends.
Scams or chancers?
And talking of ethical this is the third time I have received a friend request like this:Harinsota said: "Hello, I saw your latest ebook on Amazon. From the synopsis it looks like a high quality ebook. If you are interested, I can provide you with an honest, insightful and balanced review. The review will generally be of 100-400 words (depending on the ebook). Please visit http://exzorders.com/review-policy/ if this is something you are interested in. You can check my sample reviews and testimonials on that website too. I reach out to authors like you because I love to read new stories :) If you like what you see please fill in the form below to submit your ebook for review (it is totally free to submit an ebook review request): https://secure.mailjol.net/allforms/u... Please note: For some time authors have asked me to get their reviews done faster. Due to my busy schedule and ongoing freelance projects (which are what pay my bills), I am not always able to review books submitted to me within a reasonable timeframe (I have 100s of ebooks in my library I am yet to review). As such, I of"
It goes on to say that for a small price he can review my books more quickly.
Harinsota and Garinsota have sent me the friend requests - more than one.
Has anyone else received friend requests like this?
Patti (baconater) wrote: "I'm chuffed that I know so many authors that are worthy of recognition."Thank you Patti - that's the nicest thing you've said about me this year!
Bless your little pork chops.
Anna, anyone asking for money for a review is dodgy and personally I wouldn't touch em with a barge pole.Patti, at the moment, the only reason I like reviews (good or bad) is that it tells me that someone's reading my work. There are so many good indie authors out there now that every review means between ten and a thousand places in the listings. That's a lot more views and many more potential readers. It's a tough gig.
I think that's why people take unethical reviews so seriously. I don't think it's about validation as much as the recognition, as you rightly stated.
Thanks, Gaff, and oh no I wouldn't get involved at all, never! But although I flagged this I received a second friend request from the same one. They have been acquiring friends. I'm not sure whether this needs reporting or whether it's just a case of the usual way of dealing, i.e. ignoring it.
I got one of those emails as wellGarinsota would like to be your friend on Goodreads!
Hello, I saw your latest ebook on Amazon. From the synopsis it looks like a high quality ebook. If you are interested, I can provide you with an honest, insightful and balanced review. The review will generally be of 100-400 words (depending on the ebook). Please visit http://exzorders.com/review-policy/ if this is something you are interested in. You can check my sample reviews and testimonials on that website too. I reach out to authors like you because I love to read new stories :) If you like what you see please fill in the form below to submit your ebook for review (it is totally free to submit an ebook review request): https://secure.mailjol.net/allforms/u... Please note: For some time authors have asked me to get their reviews done faster. Due to my busy schedule and ongoing freelance projects (which are what pay my bills), I am not always able to review books submitted to me within a reasonable timeframe (I have 100s of ebooks in my library I am yet to review). As such, I offer an optional upgrade for those who want the review posted faster. The upgrade is only 6 USD and you can bypass it if you don't mind waiting. Like I said, totally OPTIONAL! Please don't think that by upgrading you would get a five stars review if your ebook does not deserve it. You are paying me for speed, not for the review :) If you have already submitted a review request on my website then please ignore this message. Please note that I also offer several other services to self-published authors, such as: a) I offer a 'review up-voting and down-voting' service. For existing reviews on Amazon, you can ask for a maximum of 20 up-votes or 20 down-votes, or a combination of up-votes and down-votes which doesn't exceed 20. This is quite helpful if there are some positive reviews you want to be up-voted, or some negative reviews you want to be down-voted. For this I charge a measly $5 :) b) I can also read your ebook (upto 100 pages) from cover to cover and send you a list of errors or mistakes I have found (I will also point out plotholes, if any). For this I charge only $39.
I would report it, even if there's nothing else to be done. At least it highlights a nuisance on the site.
I've had a few like that. They all get chucked in the same place.
Darlings, please don't just delete them. Report them.
There's a report button on the message page.
Sorry, it says 'flag', not report.
I 'flagged' one of the messages but then received another one. Nevertheless, I've flagged this latest one.One of these guys has acquired quite a few friends... hmm.
Thanks Patti, I've flagged one of these guys before but I think they just change their names slightly (Garinsota to Harinsota, so far).Perhaps if more people flag it up, the big mods will recognize the pattern.
Yep. They'll track the ISP eventually.
I'm miffed. Nobody thinks my books are high quality! ;)
Kath wrote: "I'm miffed. Nobody thinks my books are high quality! ;)"I suspect they're terrified of a 'Master' reviewer (Or is that a Mistress/Matron reviewer?)
It would be nice to be asked - so I could tell them in no uncertain terms what I thought of them!
I have set up a thing for my mailing list where they get free books for joining up (two). I then send them an e-mail telling them they can review them if they want, and that if they do, it would be a great help to me. Then I say that if they do review, to send me a link and I'll enter them in a sweepstake to win a signed paperback copy of one my books (whichever one they want). This is probably still dodgy but at least there's something in it for them. ;-)
Kath wrote: "It would be nice to be asked - so I could tell them in no uncertain terms what I thought of them!"They've never asked me, either. ;-)
Is it really ethical to give authors the impression that engineering lots of reviews will lead to lots of sales? Lots of non-engineered reviews are certainly a symptom of success, but there's no actual evidence that having lots of reviews on Amazon will drive sales. Books with lots of reviews and a good average rating can be found anywhere on the Amazon rankings. Many are selling only a trickle.
True, on the review front, it's mainly about having enough of them to get a mention on some of the big ad sites where you need a lot of reviews to get accepted.Cheers
MTM
M.T. wrote: "True, on the review front, it's mainly about having enough of them to get a mention on some of the big ad sites where you need a lot of reviews to get accepted.Cheers
MTM"
That is an important issue. I haven't got a single book with enough reviews to be even considered by one of the big sites
At the rate I accumulate reviews, I suspect they'll have increased the threshold long before I get there
Yes, they take a lot of work. I'm hoping to get some for my new book by offering people free copies of all my books, for evermore if they review and provide me with a link.Cheers
MTM
My first book has enough reviews (just), but none of the others do. Still never been accepted for a Bookbub.I had a review about a month ago, but the previous one was a good 3 or 4 months before that.
M.T. wrote: "True, on the review front, it's mainly about having enough of them to get a mention on some of the big ad sites where you need a lot of reviews to get accepted.Cheers
MTM"
Yes, that's a point I've seen made by a number of experienced Kindle authors. It's a pity, really, and helps lead to a mass scramble for reviews, and some dubious tactics being used to get them which can end up devaluing them.
I recently started a thread on KBoards asking people what their rate was for spontaneous customer reviews. Rates given ranged massively, from 0.05% (1 review for 2000 buyers/KU borrowers) to 3.5%. Most were low, with 0.1% a common figure given, and the average being well below 1%.
Maybe I'll start one here.
I've never thought to calculate that, Robert. The next time I have half an hour to spare, I'll be doing the maths. Thanks.
This has made me a happy bunny. If my maths are right, and I've checked them twice, I have a 3.12% and a 4.83% for my 2 books. This is ensuring there are no double-ups and I haven't got any family reviews to remove from the calculations nor close non-cyber friends.I can slog on with a hint of a smile now.
Well under 1% for the first book -- 1000+ free copies with no resulting reviews saw to that!Book 2 is higher, maybe 3 or 4%, but only because it's sold far fewer and as a sequel, the audience is largely self-selecting.
Ah... I didn't add in the free books. Well I'm not going to recalculate otherwise it will wipe the smile off my face.My assumption was that they don't count because only a low percentage of those who download freebies actually read them. I've only run two freebies anyway, one for each book.
Anna wrote: "This has made me a happy bunny. If my maths are right, and I've checked them twice, I have a 3.12% and a 4.83% for my 2 books. This is ensuring there are no double-ups and I haven't got any family ..."That's very high, Anna, if you've included only paying customers (including KU, because they pay). However, there seemed to be a pattern from the KBoard responses that indicated that the more reviews there are on a book, the lower the rate of spontaneous responses becomes. Books that had sold in their hundreds of thousands would have hundreds of reviews, not thousands, and the likely rate would be around 0.1% If your numbers of sales and reviews are enough to be statistically significant, then the lower rate 3.12% is actually likely to be your best seller and most reviewed so far! Am I right?
So,if you experience your percentages going down over time as the actual number of reviews goes up, don't let it wipe the hint of a smile off your face, as it's to be expected!
I suppose the problem is that there is no real incentive for people to leave reviews, and unless you enjoy writing them they are a pain in the [insert portion of anatomy here] to write and upload.If I could just give a book a star rating - without a review - that my Kindle would upload next time I connected I would do that far more often than I would write a review.
Maybe if Amazon really want people to review the products - not just books - they should have some sort of incentive system (it would have to be for Amazon verified purchases, obviously) like points - like a store loyalty card - that add up to an Amazon voucher, or Green Shield Stamps or something of that ilk for a review.
My feeling is that some people like reviewing - fair play to them. But there's no obligation for anyone who's bought your book even to read it, let alone review. They owe you nothing. I never ask for a review at the end of a book. The reader has done his/her duty by getting that far!
Kath wrote: "My feeling is that some people like reviewing - fair play to them. But there's no obligation for anyone who's bought your book even to read it, let alone review. They owe you nothing. I never ask f..."That is the problem with the system Amazon and the other on-line retailers have. Most people don't want to or can't be bothered to review, but the retailers base their entire systems around reviews, the more the merrier, and so do all the other places like Bookbub and so on.
Writers don't want to chase reviews and readers - mostly - don't want to give them, but that is the way the game is scored.
So writers end up having to try to get reviews in whatever way they can, some less ethical than others, some less tasteful than others, if they want to get anywhere beyond the doldrums at the bottom of the Amazon sales bucket.
Actually, there is a star rating thing on kindle that comes up when you finish a book. I use it all the time.
Patti (baconater) wrote: "Actually, there is a star rating thing on kindle that comes up when you finish a book. I use it all the time."Does this show on Amazon then? It could be useful, as I rarely review (except for that one a couple of weeks ago with all the five star reviews - it now has 30odd 5 star reviews and just one different one - my two star review)
But - I don't think I would be using it as I don't have my kindle connected to the internet except when I'm downloading any books.
Does Amazon allow you just to give a book stars without reviewing? Because I would be more tempted to do that.
