When did sci-fi start living up to today's standards?

[C. John]

This reminds me of when Alexei and Cory Panshin complained about Sword and Sorcery that it couldn't be taken serieously until it had evolved into something else. This is sort of like saying Opera has to evolve into something else. I am not sure you can refresh something as that means changing it. You can modify it though.

[Niels]

Well just because fantasy is still called fantasy doesn't mean that it hasn't evolved into something new?

Literature genres are extremely difficult to change because of marketing and conservative publishers (while opera evolved into stuff like operettes and muscials with wider appeal).

[Aaron]

Niels wrote: "Well just because fantasy is still called fantasy doesn't mean that it hasn't evolved into something new?

Literature genres are extremely difficult to change because of marketing and conservative ..."

Well having a genre be consistent is a good thing, if you want something new have a new genre/subgenre.

[C. John]

Actually operetta is a genre of opera. It should probably be noted that the Panshin's SF criticism was heavily influenced by their socialist leanings.

[Abby]

>> I am not sure you can refresh something as that means changing it.

Things change automatically over time. The tropes and conventions of Fantasy literature in the 1940s are far different from the tropes and conventions of Fantasy literature in the 2010s.

I think a "refresh" occurs when the thing goes mainstream. Like, after Interview With a Vampire was a movie starring Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise in the 1990s, sexy vampires were embraced by a lot of mainstream people. Then we got the Sookie Stackhouse books, aka Vampire Diaries, and the Anita Blake series, and Twilight. The whole paranormal subgenre was "refreshed" ... and, in fact, it may now be growing stale again.

After Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films, it was suddenly okay to spend huge budgets on epic fantasy words, and HBO took a risk and made Game of Thrones. It's become mainstream and cool to like Epic Fantasy. That "refresh" is recent and still ongoing.

Star Wars and its sequels opened the Space Opera floodgates in the late 1970s - 1980s. But, IMHO, there weren't any smash hits to continue the wave, and so it hasn't quite made the leap to main-mainstream. It remains a sort of fluke, and I think a lot of people dismiss it as a one-time wonder, never to be repeated.

When we get a spate of mainstream Space Opera books/shows/films other than Star Wars, I will consider the genre "refreshed." And by mainstream, I mean well-loved and raved about by people of all ages and backgrounds, in a way that lasts longer than opening week at the box office.

[Steph]

Abby wrote: "...Star Wars and its sequels opened the Space Opera floodgates in the late 1970s - 1980s. But, IMHO, there weren't any smash hits to continue the wave, and so it hasn't quite made the leap to main-mainstream. It remains a sort of fluke, and I think a lot of people dismiss it as a one-time wonder, never to be repeated..."

I think Star Wars possibly killed space opera in the movies for a time. It followed pulp sci-fi classics like the original Flash Gordon; and stylistically builds on films like Dark Star (mucking around in hyperspace) and Silent Running (cute robots), but largely abandoned sci-fi pretensions by sticking to fantasy tropes. Star Trek and all its off-shoots arguably did more for space opera on the big screen.

[Niels]

Steph wrote: "I think Star Wars possibly killed space opera in the movies for a time."

Agreed, and it still ruins any attempts at coming up with new spaceship designs. I do occasionally build LEGO spaceships for fun, and the average prescooler response is "YAY STAR WARS!!!"
Pretty annoying when you have spend many hours and effort on actually creating an original design, which is usually better than the prequel/spin-off crap and sometimes on par with the original iconic spaceship designs.

[C. John]

Remember Star Wars is one of the few things the general public thinks of when the phrase 'science fiction' is used. Besides face it, most of the SF we watch and read is beyond a typical preschooler. We may not like to admit it but serious sci-fi fans are really a small segment of the overall general public.

[Abby]

>> We may not like to admit it but serious sci-fi fans are really a small segment of the overall general public.

Fantasy is very popular, and Star Wars is basically Sci-Fantasy. I don't see why we can't have more Sci-Fantasy that stands out.

I think too many publishers are afraid to take a risk on Sci-Fantasy, and too many Sci-Fantasy authors are trying to imitate Star Wars. Hmmph. There is *so* much potential for this sub-genre to take off and go mainstream. I mean, it already has, a little bit, in Manga and Anime.

[Niels]

What really makes it an uphill battle is that is the reaction "STAR WARS! Wait, it's not Star Wars? Pfft nevermind"