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The Picture of Dorian Gray
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2015 October BOTM - The Picture of Dorian Gray
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I have no idea if this has anything to do with the book but I bought this game last week when it was on sale only because it had Dorian Gray in the title.Brink of Consciousness: Dorian Gray Syndrome Collector's Edition
http://store.steampowered.com/app/302...
Will be interesting to see how they justify that title, and even better than a film adaptation
Evan wrote: "I have no idea if this has anything to do with the book but I bought this game last week when it was on sale only because it had Dorian Gray in the title.Brink of Consciousness: Dorian Gray Syndr..."
From what little I saw, the game includes a madman named Oscar, and you are supposed to play a character named Sam Wilde in your search to save your girlfriend Anna. It apparently has lots of hidden objects, too.
I saw on the forums that the only similarities was that the villian didn't like aging
I have some additional thoughts about the power of mirrors, portraits, and windows in TPDG. Between the numerous flower references and these objects, the novel is filled with images that convey meanings of fear, truth, hatred, and learning. In no particular order, I mention the portrait itself, the windows in the conservatory through which Dorian sees Sibyl Vane's brother, the window through which Dorian sees Hetty for the last time (saying "I saw her white face at the window, like a spray of jasmine"), and the mirror carved in Cupid figures that Lord Henry gives to Dorian.
All of these objects are significant, because they either expose, contrast, or hide the ugliness of Dorian's actions. The mirror from Lord Henry is the dominant object, because Dorian uses it to view himself in person as he looks at the corrupted figure he sees in the portrait.
That contrast causes him to question his motives after every one of his actions. He sees the Dorian in paint turning into a villain and also aging, and of course this ignites his vanity into thinking he is still young and virtuous because of his good looks. The opposite is the case, of course, as he finally exclaims to Lord Henry (Chapter 19): "The soul is a terrible reality. It can be bought, and sold, and bartered away. It can be poisoned or made perfect. There is a soul in each one of us." He can say this because he has seen the image in the portrait, and realizes it has both educated him and goaded him into more grievous conduct.
The final image I should mention is the very first one that Wilde mentions in the preface: the mirror that Caliban looks into. He uses that image from The Tempest to describe the nineteenth century dislike of realism, which is the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass. I take this to be a rejection of the Victorian age of the machines, because it turns men into machines. The only way to conquer that rage is to celebrate the humanity we put into our art forms, and to appreciate the good and the beautiful when we find it. We need to rise above the Calibans in all of us, and to embrace ourselves, warts and all.
That is my take on the impressive symbolism I see in TPDG.
Jon wrote: "I have some additional thoughts about the power of mirrors, portraits, and windows in TPDG. Between the numerous flower references and these objects, the novel is filled with images that convey mea..."Jon, I really enjoy all your input on this book. I love reading, but writing is another matter. I can never organize my thoughts and express them in such an eloquent and profound manner. Your posts help me reflect and think deeper about the contents of the book. Thank you.
Michelle wrote: "Jon wrote: "I have some additional thoughts about the power of mirrors, portraits, and windows in TPDG. Between the numerous flower references and these objects, the novel is filled with images tha..."I'm glad I could be helpful. But I do not pretend to know much about Wilde's motives in the book. He is definitely in the "art for art's sake" school of thought, and he definitely rejects the Victorian premises of science, art, literature and philosophy. But beyond that I am clueless
For instance, I see that he holds music in some kind of special esteem that he does not have for any other artistic expression. Otherwise, this statement in the preface makes no sense: "From the point of view of form, the type of all the arts is the art of the musician." He clearly means (to me, anyway) that music allows beauty to display itself free of the vagaries of instrumentation like acting, sculpting, painting, writing, and so on. I think he considers music superior in artistic expression because it is completely non-verbal and cannot be manipulated to be deceptively coercive as the other arts can do.
Recall Lord Henry's rebuke of Dorian's sensitivity of the soul in Chapter 19: "What a blessing it is that there is one art left that is not imitative." He is referring to Dorian's playing of a Chopin nocturne at the piano, and to how pleased he is by its beauty.
This statement is no accident. Lord Henry realizes that in music there is little duplicity or deceit or other games that we play with words spoken, sung, whispered, or shouted. Just speaking for myself, I can hear a Brahms piano concerto, or a Miles Davis arrangement, or a Bartok string quartet, and start to cry at the awesome ineluctable beauty embedded within these pieces.
I do not know if any of you have that reaction. That is just mine.
Here is my run at the discussion questions:1. The book seemed quite engaging to me, because I recall seeing quite a few adaptations of it. The story is such a great vehicle for so many adaptations, and can be used as a basic plot line in everything from a Gothic horror story to a coming of age story.
2. I related at first to Lord Henry, because he was so quick and at ease in many social occasions. He was always ready with a quip that could either scandalize or instead assure the listener. No situation was so insecure as to fail to produce a bon mot. I even found myself agreeing with him on things like marriage, friendship, religion, and love.
But I gradually realized that Basil Hallward was the one to whom I related the most. He had an artistic commitment much like what I have seen in the artists I know. So his struggles in achieving his artistic goals were familiar to me. And I also think he serves an alter ego for Wilde himself. Wilde makes it clear that Hallward is the most courageous character in the book.
3. No, I do not think that the story is a caricature of Oscar Wilde himself. As I mentioned, the motivations he imbues in Hallward seem to run very close to Wilde's own sympathies. But beyond that, Wilde has a far broader goal, which is to overturn the Victorian rules for literature, science, morals and religion.
4. No, I have not seen any film adaptations of the story. But I have seen numerous attempts at other adaptations, from television (Dark Shadows had Quentin Collins, who had his own portrait; and Lost Girls had a narrator reading homosexual erotica); The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which featured Stuart Townshend as Dorian Gray in a different kind of role; photographic images by Karl Lagerfeld, featuring a Dorian Gray husband and wife team; and various musicals, dance adaptations, even an opera and a 3-act play.
All of them are just derivative, and do not tell the story as Wilde intended. So, in my limited experience, they do not capture the character or prose of the original.
1. Initially the story was engaging and easy to get into. The readers is introduced to three very interesting characters...obviously 'upper crust'. Dorian, a young fresh kid, Basill, an artist who is excited because he's just completing what he feels is the best piece he's ever done and Lord Henry, a a charming, witty, sophisticated married man of leisure.2. A possible reason this book might be more successful now could be that there is at least a movement toward tolerance for people being accepted as they are...straight, gay, transgender, tattooed, pierced, etc.
3. None of these characters made me care. They were all so wrapped up in their own dramas that they couldn't see how ridiculously ineffective they were as people. They couldn't help themselves or each other.
4. The book seems to be a PG rated version of his own life.
Ok, I finally finished the book. Here are my thoughts on the questions. :)1. The first few chapters were definitely engaging, but started to drag in the middle, then picked up again. Personally, I was appalled by Lord Henry's philosophies. :( It kind of turned me off the book. But, I kept on reading it, although at a slowed pace, until Basil died. Then, I couldn't put it down, wanting to know what happens. I think the book is more popular today because we are much more openly focused on ourselves then back when it was written. Back then, although many people were self-absorbed, it was totally frowned upon, so it was hidden. At least, that's how I see it. ;) :)
2. I didn't really care for the major characters. Lord Henry was awful and Dorian should've made his own decisions, not just copy Lord Henry. :P I guess I felt for Sybil and her brother the most. They were just innocent bystanders and were destroyed by Dorian, and indirectly, Lord Henry. And, a bit for Basil. His obsession for Dorian was ultimately his downfall. (view spoiler)
3. I know very little about the author. Only what I just read on Wikipedia. ;) I guess pieces of himself are in several of the characters. But, I think the book was more about aesthetism, i.e. the nature of beauty, than a caricature.
4. I've never seen any of the movies. But, 99% of the movies that I've seen that were based on a book, don't hold a candle to the book. :) Movies tend to leave out important scenes and actors can't (or don't) always act the way the author has created the characters. Course, that's just my opinion... :)
Kimberly wrote: "Ok, I finally finished the book. Here are my thoughts on the questions. :)1. The first few chapters were definitely engaging, but started to drag in the middle, then picked up again. Personally, ..."
Do you really think Lord Henry induced Dorian to do anything? I ask because Dorian seems to be a free agent throughout the book. For one thing, he is intensely aware of the influence from Lord Henry, but he makes his decisions on his own.
In the broadest context, I think all three of them are just exercises in Narcissistic self-absorption. All of them are wealthy, seem to be financially independent gentry, live their lives quite independently, and look down upon the middle class.
In short, they are all anti-heroes, at the best. Basil seems to have the closest connection to normal people, but even he has delusions of god-hood.
Jon wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Ok, I finally finished the book. Here are my thoughts on the questions. :)1. The first few chapters were definitely engaging, but started to drag in the middle, then picked up ag..."
I do agree with Kimberly that Lord Henry was a bad influence on Dorian. Yes, Dorian is a free agent and he could have made different choices. However, it was Lord Henry that planted new ideas in Dorian's head. So i guess what I mean to say is, Lord Henry did not induce Dorian, but he did show Dorian darker paths that Dorian ultimately chose to walk upon.
Michelle wrote: "Jon wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Ok, I finally finished the book. Here are my thoughts on the questions. :)1. The first few chapters were definitely engaging, but started to drag in the middle, then ..."
I felt that way, too. Wilde went into so much detail about what Dorian's pleasures were over the years and nothing about the the things he'd done to all the people who hated him or were shunning him.
Shirley made the comment that Wilde did not go into the details of what Dorian had done to his friends/acquaintances. Isn't that what makes the picture so much stronger?! It's the imagination that has to take over. I find that too much details sometimes turns a story flat.(I have not figured out how to copy and put the copied text into italics on my iPad)
Shirley wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Jon wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Ok, I finally finished the book. Here are my thoughts on the questions. :)1. The first few chapters were definitely engaging, but started to drag in ..."
Don't you think that picture he hid away was telling him exactly what he had done to all his victims? I think he knew it precisely, but he did not want to admit it to himself. That is what makes this such an incredible story of the psychology of a psychopath.
He tried to deny to himself what the picture was showing, but by the end he realized he could not escape those consequences.
Jon wrote: "Shirley wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Jon wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Ok, I finally finished the book. Here are my thoughts on the questions. :)1. The first few chapters were definitely engaging, but sta..."
Yes, yes that's very true.
Jon wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Ok, I finally finished the book. Here are my thoughts on the questions. :)1. The first few chapters were definitely engaging, but started to drag in the middle, then picked up ag..."
I wouldn't say Lord Henry induced Dorian to do anything, I just felt like Dorian didn't really "test" what Lord Henry said. He just agreed with him. But, maybe that's cuz he was young and impressionable. :)
Kimberly, I will agree that Lord Henry did not force anything on Dorian, but I think he did a lot of light/heavy persuasion. At least that was my impression. I especially found that in the meeting between the two after Sybil's suicide. Dorian was feeling down, guilty and terrible. Lord Henry talks until Dorian abandons his feeling of guilt and shame
Hi, first comments from a newbie. I had not previously read the book, but have seen the movie, which I enjoyed.Reading the book, after the first chapter or so, I no longer visualized images from the film - the words had me. I found the middle repetitive without adding much in substance (reference to his corruption of youth and social interaction outside his class repeated). The ease with which Sybil was dismissed speaks to, I think, the 'class' structure at the time, which I think is the reason the book was not well received then.
Having read the comments in forum, I find myself in some agreement, so won't repeat here, especially since I'm a day late posting (blushing).
I enjoyed the book more than the film, and am glad to have read it. The subtle yet vivid imagery in the words allowed me to 'see' with my own eyes the story unfold, the portrait change, and Dorian eventually realize the reality of who he was and had become (no spoilers).
I'm glad to have read the book ^_^
Final thoughts on DG. Why do we become who we we are? A popular theory posits that we might look to nature vs nurture for answers. D was a young extremely attractive rich impressionable male who met two older males. Basil was nice mildly amusing but Lord Henry was a FUN provocative do whatever you feel kind of guy. Basil's influence was practically non-existent. But Lord Henry seemed to open the world of baser instincts to D who was deeply enthralled by them. I'm reminded of the movie The Bad Seed about a young adopted girl driven by her passions to kill for what she wanted. Her natural mother had been a murderess as well. Although the girl was now was being cared by for a wonderfully kind loving generous person, the premise of the story was nature overcame nurture. D's early life includes parents of a bohemian passion driven bent as well as a certain unchecked childhood willfulness in D. With both nature and nurture registering negative balances , and given the strong negative influence of Lord Henry, D had nowhere to go but down.
For me, the question left by the book is whether we change over time or not. That question is what prompts Dorian to make that wish in Chapter 2, that any changes in his character should be shown upon the image of the picture instead of himself personally. His wish fulfillment reflects an unconscious fear that any change is bad, and that he wants to retain his good looks and character forever.Lord Henry may or may not fear change, but he is adamant to the end that people do not change. He may be right, at least to the extent that psychologists tell us children learn almost everything they will need to know in their first year of life.
Basil, on the other hand, counts upon change to guide him in the crafting of his artistic skills. He seems oblivious to the changes others may suffer, because he is after the supreme artistic output for himself. Nothing else seems to matter, as long as he can have Dorian at his beck and call. But he turns distinctly morose when he realizes Dorian has his own life to lead. Basil's art turns gradually hackneyed after that, much as Sybil Vane's performance on stage turns ordinary.
In short, we see countless images of change throughout the book, many of them for the worse. This may very well be Wilde's comment about his own life and the Victorian age he endured.
So I can understand Wilde's need to seek and maintain a conceptual purity, in thought and deed. But the net effect in this goal is what we see in all three characters: a self-aggrandizing Narcissism that focuses their attention only upon themselves.
Jon wrote: "For me, the question left by the book is whether we change over time or not. That question is what prompts Dorian to make that wish in Chapter 2, that any changes in his character should be shown u..."I read this book a long time ago and I rembered liking it. I obviously didn't remember much of it as I was shocked by his killing Basil and his dying after stabbing the painting. I identified with his forever young goal and his love of beautiful things I remembered that the portrait took on the aging but not the misdeeds. So in this reading I was missing just how bad he had become until the Basil murder...so impetuous and cathartic for D. His end snapped me back into the world of storytelling where such can happen. I was disappointed.
Just finished it as I'm trying to catch up with this lovely group. This is my Goodreads review as I posted on my profile just earlier. I loved this one and was enjoying myself while reading! "After reading so many ridiculous, funny and enlightening quotes of Oscar Wilde in recent years I could barely wait to pick up the infamous The Picture of Dorian Grey, which was published in 1890. It was originally censored by over 500 words in Lippincott's magazine and only later published in full book form in 1891. At first, it caused a considerable stir and wide critizism from the literary establishment and received very mixed reviews, some of them were surprisingly printed in the back of my edition. I couldn't resist. A short sneak peek:
(From the Daily Chronicle, shortly after publication, 1890):
"Dulness and dirt are the chief features of Lippincott's this month. (...) This is a sham moral, as indeed everything in the book is a sham. (...) Mr. Oscar Wilde has again been writing stuff that were better unwritten, (...) for its hero is a devil - it is false to morality" - That's heavy!
Considering the times in which this novel was originally published, the reactions are however somewhat understandable. Wilde reveals several hints at homosexuality, feminism, vanity, even mentiones drugs (opium), which were all surely a firm no-go back then. London (and England) were in the restrictive hands of the Church of England and anything falling out of the moral boundaries of 'civilization' must have been instantly disapproved of and punished by a conservative Victorian society - as indeed Oscar Wilde himself was arrested in 1895, tried for 'gross indecency with men', and senctenced to two years of hard labour.
Wilde was a master of biting wit and extensive, outrageous conversation; many pages in The Picture of Dorian Grey are filled with colourful discussions and philosophical rants about the meaning of life between the different characters. The main plotters are definitely Dorian Grey himself, a young man craving for his beauty and youth to last forever; then Basil Hallward, a self-doubting painter and artistic defender of morals; and finally Lord Henry Wotton, an aristocratic rebel of intolerable arrogance, yet also of absolute charme and an accepted character of the higher London society. The relationship between these three men is intense and one immediately understands why the court used this book as 'evidence' against Wilde during his trial.
Wilde unfolds this novel beautifuly, only to
tear the reader down to the dark chasms of the human soul, delving ever deeper into the inevitable tragedy of eventually having to face death. And even if you get a shot at being young forever, your soul will nevertheless grow old, corrupted and tired.
I personally like this novel very much, and even more since I know a few facts about its radical history. Not the last Oscar Wilde I've read!"
I had to do some quick research on this and I can see that we have a connection to this movement in the book. Thanks for pointing that out Jon."
I found a recent article (from 2011 in The Guardian) about the Aesthetic Movement, as follows. http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesi...
The article seems compelling as to what the "Cult of Beauty" from that movement did and did not do. It was first and foremost a rejection of the popular anecdotal, sentimental, morally sententious art of the Victorians. It rejected the idea that art, sculpture, interior design, and architecture must serve a moral, didactic, and socially appropriate purpose. Cheeriness was not all that art had for people. Such a narrow Victorian purpose restricted what the viewer could and should expect for his/her own benefit.
Of course, there were many ridiculous consequences from the aesthetic movement. For one instance, I wish I had a picture of Oscar Wilde's choice to wear a custom-designed suit following the contours and color of a cello at a Grosvenor opening party. Wilde must have been the first consequential style guru of the age. Now, of course, we are awash in these gurus, and they all have the same name...Kardashian, of course.
Nevertheless, we see even today many examples of the expressive qualities from the aesthetic movement. The Queen Anne style of housing, with lavish interior courtyards, is an example.
And the current purpose in urban planning to create "garden cities" is another obvious example. I used to work in the formation of residential housing projects, and they are now intended to be planned, self-contained communities surrounded by "greenbelts", containing proportionate areas of residential, commercial and retail uses, and many walking paths. These projects show us how the aesthetic movement has continued to blossom.