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The Unlikely Lavender Queen: Discussion Questions (Updated w/remaining Q's 7/23) ***SPOILERS POSSIBLE***
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1) have heard the color purple quote before. I think she chose the first one because she had to fight through some hard choices and come out on the other side seeing flowers.3-5) I think she compromised too much for her husband. I don't feel like he took her feelings into account very much. He would get some idea, start the project, and then go away, leaving Jeannie to deal with the fallout. As soon as I had seen the FIRST scorpion, I would been out of there. She did manage to deal with things very well, and she started something incredible in Blanco that she can be proud of. I think the most telling sign was Robb saying something like " I just wanted to see if I could grow lavender." I don't have the same biological clock ticking inclination, so I don't know if that was her overall motivation. Mexico does seem like the place that she wanted to be, not just another idea from Robb. That made me happy for her, as well as dealing with her PPD and lingering depression issues.
6) This is not what I expected at all. I didn't expect that this strong woman would just cave in to everything her husband wanted. She came out OK in the end, but I believe in an equal partnership and making decisions together. Even though she had a written contract, Robb still didn't go through with it. They didn't build the house and he didn't have go through the construction process.
Maybe I am being too critical of them, but they were very irritating in how they related. I did like the story of the lavender and how the industry took off in Blanco and how it changed the town.
Welcome to the discussion Brenda! Feel free to join us in the "Initial Thoughts" thread too.My answers to the Q's above are coming later today, been busy busy busy!
Brenda, I have only read 50 pages but I agree 100% with everything you type. Well said!
~I had heard both of the above quotes before, though I can't recall in what context. I happen to love both of them and smiled when I read them (at the beginning of the book). With respect to Jeannie's story, Matisse's quote is about seeing all that you have and being appreciative of what you have instead of just crying over what you don't. In most cases, you are more Blessed than you give credit for. Walker's quote, again I feel is about appreciating, appreciating what's around you. Anyone of us can sometimes have trouble being appreciative of our Blessings (those good days & bad) and Jeannie is no exception (nor am I, lol!). I think she chose them for both their literal and figurative meanings, both of which apply well to her book.~I think it depends on where you are (figuratively not literally) as to whether or not contrasts in your life make acceptance easier or more difficult. If you're unhappy in your life and surroundings, what you feel to be great times in your past only help you to feel more bitter and less content with your present. (Been there!) I also think once you come to accept that life in general changes, the contrasts don't seem so significant through the highs & lows.
~I'm honestly unsure if Jeannie has answered her own question ("When do you know whether the choices you've made are the right ones?") because I feel so many decisions have been essentially made for her, not by her throughout this story (which to a large extent is of her own accord) and I feel she will continue to have this question by novel's end as a result. I personally don't think there's ever a way to be exactly 100% positive that our decisions are good, bad or otherwise, but I do think our gut gives us a pretty fair indication. (Whether or not we chose to listen to our gut is another thing altogether, lol!)
~Well, I'm not sure I even have an identity as of yet (and I doubt I've ever actually had one either), but we live on the coast (of NJ) in just about the most beautiful area of this State and when I'm down at the Marina's or on the Hook or even just taking a walk through our neighborhood, I cannot imagine ever living any where else for the rest of my life and the thought of moving (which isn't a matter of if, it's when), literally breaks my heart and I cry. I've also had an on again/off again love affair with Manhattan, so to these extents, I could relate to Jeannie's statement and know how life changing and difficult it is.
~I was honestly put off my Jeannie's marriage therapist's statement and felt it came from a defeated point of view (on the therapist's part). Every marriage takes work on both person's parts, there's give & take, there are compromises (my Hubby does things he's not fond of because I like them & vice versa) and quite often, fair or not, one person compromises more than the other (whether it's realized or not). That doesn't always mean it's a bad thing, unless it leads to a one sided relationship where that person compromises to the point of sacrificing all areas of them self for the sake of the other person and is left unhappy and unfulfilled. The me of now, in Jeannie's shoes, could not have made all the concessions she did for/to be with Robb because the me of my past has been there & done that and I cannot/will not do it again. I am unsure what concessions Robb made to be with Jeannie, so in his shoes, I cannot say.
~I first came across this novel on the internet while doing research on Texas before we flew down there for a Nephew's wedding earlier this year and added it to my 'to-read' list. I saw it at the Houston (TX) Airport the day we were flying home along with other Hill Country Lavender products but didn't know there was any connection at the time. I loved the cover at the book! Instead of buying it, I opted (for whatever reason) to buy a Texas Hill Country Lavender organic cotton tee (I don't know if there's a connection there) and it's my fave tee now! (SO soft). I couldn't find the book at any of the libraries here, so I decided to treat myself for my bday in May. I honestly don't know what I expected - I think the gardener in me fell in love with the Lavender aspect - but I didn't expect for her relationship with Robb to strike such a chord in me (which I've mentioned here and in the "Initial Thoughts" thread), so I was very frustrated from after the Prologue until just about half way through the book, nor did I expect her struggle with PPD to affect me so much - I've battled depression for many, many years and am finally getting the upper hand - and I grew very agitated & stayed agitated through that part of the book until it passed, even when I wasn't reading it and doing other things!
I've got less than 100 pages to go now.
It is not fair for one person to do all the compromising in a relationship.
You're right Wendy, it's not, but it happens, a lot.
The section about PPD was one of the only times in the book that her husband was supportive of her. I had hope for him but then he went back to his own ways.
I think we should all be thankful to Jeannie that she took Robb off the market so that none of us, our sisters, or our girlfriends got stuck with that horrible, domineering bully. I disliked that man more and more and more with each chapter until I didn't think my opinion of him could go any lower... And then he tore Jeannie and the boys away from the lavender farm just because he'd gotten bored with the project (that he never spent much time on anyway). He even mocked her for running a successful gift shop! "Is this how you want to spend your life?" Well, it certainly wasn't what she'd planned. Neither did she plan to live out in the sticks in Texas, or run a lavender farm, but like everything he told her to do, she did it with all her energy and did it well.
I have no idea how I am going to rate this book. It's well written and interesting, and yet Robb is completely unlikable and Jeannie is so brainwashed and subservient that I have very little respect for her.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this book really pushed my buttons!
The book pushed my buttons as well, but please remember that we allow others to treat us the way they do and if Jeannie really, absolutely and truly did not want to go along with Robb and all of his plans, eventually she would have said no. Her exact words on page 214 were, "Robb was an amazing man and a good father; yes, he was difficult and exacting, but he was worth it." Like it or not, that is her choice. Is anyone going to answer the questions above, as a whole or in part as Brenda and I have? (I have created 2 other threads for thoughts and reactions to this read). I would like to know because if not, I don't see a point to posting the remaining questions.
Mod
I think when we do that sometimes we are looking to justify our actions and our feelings of being upset and looking for support so we paint the other guy into a corner. Do you think maybe there was a bit of that in this case?
I mean when you love someone you see their good and bad sides and love them inspite and because of them. It's not often we see that though in our books. You usually have the man either being the hero or the jerk I think it is great when we get to see men in a light that shows all their dimensions.
Wow Tera. I loved what you just said and its what I've been thinking while reading this discussion. i have not read the book but I do know what you speak of in real life. I'm guilty of that quite often...only talking about the negative things but never highlighting the positive things.I started doing this now to help myself get out of that habit. When i complain about something my boyfriend is doing or has said I'm quick to point out that I'm capable of the same and I do or say that to him too. I'm certainly no angel....
:)
I'm no angel either! I try to talk nice about my husband because otherwise my family is down on him too.
While I agree that we should take care about what we say and who we say it to when discussing people in our lives, remember that the author wrote this book and put it out there into the world, and that leaves her open to criticism. What she told us about her marriage was an integral part of her story, and there is no way she didn't realize that many people would not agree with her choices, particularly since she told us so often that she really didn't want to do what Robb eventually convinced her to do.I wonder if she and Robb were fictional characters, would anyone be defending them against negative comments?
Wendy, I don't have to be careful to talk nice about my husband to my parents and sisters, because I already know they like him better than me! They think I'm lucky that he puts up with me!
I realize that she is putting herself and her marriage "out there" for public scrutiny but we are only seeing her side of it all. Maybe he would have a different take on it....
It is possible that his take would be somewhat different. In a disagreement, there are usually at least three sides. In this case, his, hers, and the truth which usually lies somewhere in the middle.
Of course he'd see it differently. I am sure he'd say that everything he told her to do was for her own good. It would probably be quite interesting to read duelling accounts of their lives together. But unfortunately we can't discuss a book that hasn't been written, so the only side we can see is hers.
Mod
I guess my thought is... if he was 'an amazing man and a good father' why not show both sides of his character? or was it like when you talk to your friends/family and you're looking for support or justification for your side... is that why she wrote him that way?
What a good idea to have dueling memoirs. Someone and their husband should do just that. I'd buy those books.
Well said Tera and that's what I was trying to say... you summed it up perfectly as usual.
Jeannie has asked me to post a message from her in lieu of doing a chat with us, so I'm going to do so in a separate thread so we can keep this discussion going here.
I think maybe there was a case of Jeannie not showing enough of the good things about Robb (as she told me) vs just showing the difficult aspects of their marriage, which results in his looking like "the bad guy." I believe her memoir is very open and honest, but there has to be more to him (as well as to her) than just what lies in these 250+ pages, as is the case with most nonfiction books (and relationships) in general. It's like Holli said above, "I'm guilty of that quite often...only talking about the negative things but never highlighting the positive things."
Sometimes we can't choose who we love with all our hearts, it just happens! To stay in a marriage through the not so good times and the bad times is a great message to convey. So many people are willing to give it all up at the drop of a hat! That is just sad.
That's a great way to look at it too Cindy! And no marriage is absolutely perfect all the time either. I'm married to a stubborn, strong willed, demanding Marine who also happens to be the most amazing, respectful, loving and supportive man I've ever known. Sometimes he is utterly maddening! And I know he feels the same way about me many times over, lol!!! But that doesn't mean we love one another any less or we'll leave our marriage. In the past, when it was the right thing to do, I walked away.
I also know what a struggle it is to try and firgure out ones identity, ones place in a marriage and the world. To find your purpose. I admire Jeannie's perserverance. She hasn't given up which can be the easier thing to do (for a time at least).
Mod
If you don't like a book or character or editing or whatever thats okay and you shouldn't have to feel you cant participate in a discussion because of it. Books are meant to be read and this is the place to discuss our feelings and thoughts about them regardless. Of course it goes without saying that we respect one anothers thoughts on the subject but it doesn't me we should have to edit our own.
If you have strong feelings good or bad on a book I think that should be expressed. I think if you find a character great or horrible it's okay to say that. I know this book is a memoir and the people in it aren't fictional but I don't think that matters. It's all fair game to be discussed and disected. I personally believe that's the cost and reward of having a book published and up for discussion.
I absolutely agree with you Tera. I think that everyone should be able to express their like or dislike for any part of a book and with a memoir the author is one of the characters. She chose to tell this story and if some of the readers can't understand her or her choices that should be ok too.
Thanks Tera for that. I had no idea that she was a GR author, but I don't regret the postings I wrote. I had a gut reaction to the book as it was written and I'm OK with that.
As I wrote earlier I did not finish this book, so I should probably stop commenting. This will be my last comment on this book, I promise. The author and the writing were brutally honest, perhaps too much so for my comfort level. It almost felt like I was a fly on the wall of a very long therapy session.
From the other thread I'm assuming I might have hurt the authors feelings with my honest opinion. Interesting.
Honesty is certainly appreciated and I think necessary when discussing books! I don't change my reactions to what I've read based on the author being a GoodReads author. I do think personal attacks (on specific authors or one another) cross a line that shouldn't be crossed. Ruth, there's no need to stop posting comments!
I was initially upset with how the LQ discussion was going because no one seemed to be able to get past their seething dislike for Robb and Jeannie for being with him and therefore no other aspect of the novel could be discussed no matter how I tried! Everyone is entitled to her own opinion and I'm glad opinions were stated (that's part of the discussion) but I didn't feel there was a need to become so fixated on one aspect of this book since there are many and I felt the discussion was completely stunted and only moved forward when Tera, Holli and Cindy jumped in even without having read the book. I've never encountered this before in any discussion I participated in and I was completely caught off guard and frustrated that I couldn't keep it moving forward!
Mod
Allow me to become long winded for a moment or seven...Just bear with me I have a point I promise.
A couple of month ago we read Lolita. I hated it. I hated every single page it was written on. I thought it was a waste of ink and a perfectly good tree to publish that book. I still do. I also have close to zero praise for the author.
part 2
My sis in law and I discuss books often. I will tell her a favorite book to read. Once we were discussing Jane Austen, whom I LOVE. She cant stand her. Cant stand the language, doesn't like any of the books wont even crack one open. Same with East of Eden which you all know I think is one of the best books ever.
(now here is where I tie it all together)
When my sis in law said and shared her dislike for these books and characters that I loved I took offense to it. We didnt fight about it but I remember at the time being slightly offput by it. How could anyone NOT love those books? It was like she didn't like part of me. Isn't it great how books stir our emotions and become so much a part of us? It took me some time to realize those are her thoughts and her opinions and shes entitled to them. (I can still think shes crazy for them :P ) It's okay and it's how it should be.
That really hit home for me when I took part in the Lolita discussion. Some really loved the book and thought it was a work of art. Again I was like 'how can that be?' but after I realized it wasnt all about me and my perspective I knew I was being silly. My feelings about Lolita are mine. I own them. I stand by them. I'm obviously not afraid to say them. Just as anyone else should be able to say they love the book, thought the author's use of language was masterful and it's in their top 5 of all time.
The point is we all come to books from our own angle and find our own joy or dislikes in them. Either way is OKAY. More importantly it is OKAY to say and express that here. As long as we aren't attacking one another's posts then you can say and feel how you want about a book, regardless of if the author is a GR member or not.
As far as discussions going off on their own tangent I think those make for the best discussions. When the discussion is driven by peoples reactions and thoughts it is amazing what can be found out about each other.
Please don't be discouraged if discussions go another way than planned. It's all good (as my 13yr old would say).
read, discuss, learn
T~
**** clapping loudly ***** well said Tera!!!
Tera, as much as I try to be & feel I am diplomatic, you are so much better at it than I!
Here are the last of the discussion questions:~Jeannie described her parent's house as, "...a time warp that you step into at your own risk." Why do you think she had such a difficult time returning home? Do you react the same way when returning to your parent's house? Do all of the feelings from your growing up return, making you feel like that younger self again?
~Did you suspect that PPD/depression was the cause of Jeannie's insomnia? (If not, what did you think the cause was?) Have you ever experienced PPD or known someone who has?
~A customer at the farm tells Jeannie, "You are living my dream!" to which Jeannie wanted to reply with, "'If you only knew.' But I simply smiled. Though it was true, I'd never had such a dream, I was only beginning to see why others might." Have you thought someone else was living a dream of yours? Has Jeannie helped you to see that things aren't always what they seem to be, when essentially looking from the outside in? Can you understand why she was unable to appreciate aspects of her life that others found enviable?
~Do you agree that living in a small town could test a person's open-mindedness more so than living in a big city?
As far as the PPD causing her insomnia, I think it is likely. I know I had some depression following the birth of my daughter and I worried about everything which could certainly cause insomnia.I think you have to be very accepting of people no matter where you live. In a small town, I have found that many people are set in their ways (as Jeannie found). In order to live in a big city, you also have to be accepting because you will certainly run across people who are very different from you.
~Jeannie's returning home brought her back to her place in the family as a child and made her self conscious of her 'rogue' ways compared to the more predictable & safe ways of her siblings, all of which was emphasized by what I feel was her feeling as though she shouldn't stand out and be so different when with her family and not living up to her parent's expectations (real or perceived).I am an only child, my father passed when I was 3 though my parent's had been divorced since I was 6 months old, so while it was only the 2 of us all those years under the same roof, I have no idea what expectations my mother has ever had for me (she's never voiced any to me, I'm sure she's had them in her own mind). I was never comfortable returning to that home, but I was sad when she moved from there 6 years ago. I disliked going to where she lived after that as well. She was very much into looking down on me, my life and my decisions through then and it didn't create a welcoming atmosphere. Thankfully there isn't any of that involved with where she lives now, but she has mentioned that she doesn't feel comfortable being in our home now and all my husband and I ever do is try to make her feel welcome. (I'll never win when it comes to my mom, lol!)
~I knew Jeannie was depressed, but for some reason PPD never crossed my mind. Throughout out my own battle with depression, I've had many bouts of insomnia over the years. I honestly don't know if I had PPD after losing my daughter for 2 reasons, #1 I've battled depression since childhood and #2 I was so deep in shock and grief over losing her, I can't tell if there was a difference.
~In the past I've often thought that someone else was living my dream(s) but from my own past efforts to not let people know what was really going on in my life and through memoirs like this (EPL & others too) I know things aren't always what they seem and my dreams may be anything but ideal for someone else.
I can also understand not being able to appreciate what you have in your life that others may envy because when you are truly unhappy & unsettled, you are seemingly unable to see or appreciate your blessings. All you can see is what's wrong, what you don't have that you want and what makes you unhappy.
~I believe living in a small community certainly can challenge your open-mindedness. You may have preconceived notions about that small town and the community may have them about you as well! It's very easy to blend in in a big city or large community or associate with only certain types of people in these environments as well. I think in a small town you are forced out of your comfort zone much more often.
returning home: being with at my parent's home doesn't bother me; as I get older I have come to appreciate that my parents are flawed just like the rest of humanity and I love them anyway. What did bother me was them moving out of state 5 years ago. I am an only child as well and having them more than 2 hours away was very disturbing. But I have adjusted and I think I appreciate seeing them more now than before. As far as being stuck in a time warp: I have tried to show my extended family that I am a much different person than I was as a child. I don't see them all very often, but I find that I am always trying to break out of the mold of "quiet and meek." That's not me anymore and I think I shock my relatives sometimes. But, they are getting used to it! PPD: My best friend had slight PPD after one of her children's births. She didn't say anything at the time. Jeannie's was certainly plausible, but I also think stress/overactive worrying induced as well. I know for myself I have turned to meditative techniques to try to get to sleep because the mind won't shut off! I've never gone for days without any sleep and I can't even imagine how she functioned at all.
Dream: Jeannie's reaction I thought was very natural. "The grass is always greener on the other side" applies here. I'm not sure I've ever been living someone else's dream... "middle school math teacher" usually elicits gasps insteads of oohs and ahs. Although, sometimes I think my nonteacher friends wish they had summers off (although I often do work in the summer off and on). Back to Jeannie: she had really enjoyed living in NYC and then later Austin once she made some friends. She loved Provence. She didn't consider the countryside in Texas as any of those places so couldn't imagine it being anyone's dream. Provence, yes. Blanco, no.
Small town: I grew up in a small town (750 people total). It had its advantages but my family was looked down upon for some silly reasons. Open-mindedness: I think one is tested every day. I certainly am. I struggle with "accepting" instead of just "tolerating" differences (I am very liberal but have some conservatives friends). In a small town, there can be concentrations of viewpoints that make others shy away from expressing their minority view (remember when she realized there were democrats in Blanco that she didn't know about?). In a city, I imagine (since I have never lived in a city bigger than 100,000) it would be easier to just blend in.
Jo wrote: "Honesty is certainly appreciated and I think necessary when discussing books! I don't change my reactions to what I've read based on the author being a GoodReads author. I do think personal attac..."Jo. I said I was not going to comment again. I guess I lied. Anyway, just wanted to say I appreciate your efforts and comments. I did not respond to your discussion questions because I ididn't read more than 50 pages of the book. But I have thoroughly enjoyed following the questions, the discussions. Thank you for all your hard work.
Thank you Ruth! Much appreciated! And like I said, you don't have to stop commenting regardless so no worries there, lol! Or with the questions for that matter - wouldn't make sense for you to try & answer Qs for parts of the book you haven't read/finished reading. I'm glad you joined in!
Thanks to everyone who participated! I look forward to others coming back here when they've finally been able to read the book to continue the discussion.
~The book opens with 2 quotes, "There are always flowers for those who want to see them" (Henry Matisse) and "If you pass by the color purple in a field and don't notice it, God gets real pissed off" (Alice Walker, from The Color Purple).
Had you heard either of these before? What do you think each one means in the context of Jeannie's story? Why do you think she chose these particular quotes?
~In the Prologue, Jeannie describes her first morning as a lavender farmer and compares it with a memory from her life in New York when she was last up at that hour of the day and it is a drastically different scenario! ("I recalled one of the last times I was out at this hour, years earlier. It was on the other side of sleep, right after a New Year's Eve party, as I stumbled through SoHo with my then fiance."
Do you think such contrasts in ones life make it easier or more difficult to accept where you are and where you've come from?
~Jeannie poses the following at the end of the Prologue, "When do you know whether the choices you've made are the right ones?"
Do you feel she has answered this for herself as the book continues or do you find more questions as it goes on? How would you answer this question if posed to you?
~How did you feel when Jeannie wrote, "I couldn't fathom giving up New York, and with it, I assumed, my identity, which had taken so long to forge."?
~Jeannie's marriage therapist told her, "Marriage is a series of compromises and negotiations."
Do you agree? Is it fair or the norm if one person in the marriage compromises more? If you were in either Jeannie or Robb's shoes, would you have made the same concessions?
~Based on the book's description, is it what you expected?