The Bully Pulpit ~ October 2015

[Alias Reader]

After I closed the book I watched a program that I had saved on my DVR. It is DKG talking about the book at the 92nd St. Y.

Here is the video of the program.

Doris Kearns Goodwin on Teddy Roosevelt, Taft and The Bully Pulpit | 92Y Talks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVkTB...

[Alias Reader]

Chapter 22

Edith was sure a lady of her times. This quote I thought captured her perfectly. She sure was an "intensely private and traditional wife and mother."
P 576
"Believing that a women's name should appear in print but twice - when she is married and when she is buried."

[Alias Reader]

Chapter 22
p 578

I'll admit to a bit of hometown prejudice here. ;)

RE: Nellie's opinion that Washington would supplant NY as the "real social center" of the country.

I loved the NY response to the First lady.
"absurd as it is impracticable. Insisting that NY has been, and always will be the mecca of culture and wealth in our land."

[Alias Reader]

Chapter 25
p 652

I thought this quote was quite true.

"The American people are strange in their attitudes toward their idols. They lead them on and then cut their legs from under them simply to make their fall all the greater."

[Alias Reader]

Amy wrote: "Re: Taft's weight issues...Alias, I wondered as I read the item you posted whether Taft's obesity was at least partially a function of the enormous stresses in his life and the manner in which he d..."

DKG notes the following on page 749 that when Taft finally gets his life long dream job of the supreme court -

"Fulfilled at work and happy at home, he embarked upon a successful regime of diet and exercise, bringing his weight down to less than 250 pounds, a reasonable weight for a man of his stature and proportions. Years of obesity, however, had already damaged his health."

[Alias Reader]

Amy wrote: Extra checkmarks in my "Nellie Taft Fan Club" column. When Taft came home with the news that he had been chosen by President McKinley to take on the role of Governor-General of the Phillipines, Nellie agreed immediately."

I certainly liked the vivacious Nellie. However, I really felt for Taft. It was clear his heart was not in the presidency. He loved the law and wanted the Supreme Court. I thought Nellie pushed him to run for political office. It was her dream, not his.

[Alias Reader]

madrano wrote: Amy, i'm glad to read your comments on the book & TR. Curiously, i wondered the same thing about Kearns Goodwin--did she like or dislike him? ."

If you watch the 92nd ST Y interview, I think she clearly likes TR and she notes she is a progressive herself.

[Alias Reader]

Amy wrote: Page 403: I didn't know that Edith Roosevelt was the driving force behind the renovation of the White House that resulted in the construction of the West Wing building. That was an an interesting section to read as well. ."

Yes. Also interesting on page 653 under the Taft administration; "Congress had approved a budget of $40,000 to double the office space from six to twelve rooms. Positioned directly in the center of the new addition was a handsome new oval-shaped office for the president, replacing what had been a severe rectangular room."

Good Jeopardy question !

[madrano]

Congratulations on completing the book. I know the struggle you had and agree, the book could have used more editing. She did such a good job with Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln that i was sure this book would be as interesting, particularly with the journalists, whose stories i liked.

I agree with you that it was Nellie who really wanted the White House for herself and her husband. That she got her stroke early on was sad and also meant a loss of his best adviser. Pity, that. One can only be glad that he finally made it to the Supreme Court.

Yes, the renovation of the White House and that Edith was the driving force was new to me. Long ago i read a book by Dorothy Draper titled Decorating Is Fun!: How to Be Your Own Decorator. Edith wrote the foreward or intro or something for the book. Only later did i know DD was a distant cousin to the Roosevelts. I just figured Edith was asked to write for the publication because she was once First Lady, now i can see it was more than that.

I'm wondering what you thought of the way Theodore reintroduced himself to politics, leading up to running again for the Presidency. It was this which most disillusioned me toward the man. It was unfortunate but he wasn't the first former president to want to get back in office, even if it meant helping to create a third party.

I'll bet you are relieved to have this Big Book off your "to do" list!

[Amy]

Yes, Nellie was definitely the driving force behind Taft's campaign and presidency. But I still loved her grit, determination and feminism in a time when being a strong female with ambitions and opinions was frowned upon. Honestly, I think that Nellie would have made a great president herself if that option had been available to her! And Taft was a grown man. If he really, really didn't want to run, he didn't have to. Yes, it may have been her dream -- but he agreed to run. It was his decision in the end.

[Alias Reader]

madrano wrote: I'm wondering what you thought of the way Theodore reintroduced himself to politics, leading up to running again for the Presidency. It was this which most disillusioned me toward the man. It was unfortunate but he wasn't the first former president to want to get back in office, even if it meant helping to create a third party...."

Thanks, deb ! It was a slog for me. You mentioned Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln . I had no problem reading that. Maybe part of the problem was that she didn't have a single focus for Bully Pulpit. She clearly did her research as the million pages of notes can attest. Perhaps this was part of the problem. She seemed to included every single quote she found. The book lost its human aspect and became almost a cold book filled with too much arcane minutia.

As for TR last run with a 3rd party, I can understand it. Unlike Taft, TR loved being president. Politics can be an ugly game, so the things that were said didn't surprise me. I am glad that at the end they became friends again.

[Alias Reader]

Amy wrote: "Yes, Nellie was definitely the driving force behind Taft's campaign and presidency. But I still loved her grit, determination and feminism in a time when being a strong female with ambitions and op..."

True. It was his decision in the end. However, I still felt that his happiness and not social striving or the spotlight should have guided the decision. I really don't know why she wanted it so. It wasn't like he wanted to go off to an island and write poetry.

[madrano]

I agree, too, Amy. He made the choice ultimately. And this wasn't the first time he went against what people thought he should do or wanted to do. I don't recall if DKG told us what she thought of his passing up the opportunity to be on the Supreme Court when in the Philippines. Does anyone remember? Regardless, i just felt sad that when he finally achieved the highest office, his best adviser couldn't help him the way she had throughout his career. I suppose we can only guess at her frustration, as well.

I attributed the renewed friendship with TR to Taft's consistent desire to please others and be friends with all. He almost had a pathological need to please, didn't he? When i think of all the positive comments from friends and foes about his overwhelmingly pleasant personality, i can't help but wonder where that came from. I didn't get a sense of what (if anything) might have created it from what DKG told us of his youth.

[Alias Reader]

madrano wrote: I don't recall if DKG told us what she thought of his passing up the opportunity to be on the Supreme Court when in the Philippines. Does anyone remember? ..."

If I recall correctly, she said he felt an obligation to the people of the Philippines to finish what he had started. He placed Duty above his own desires.

[Alias Reader]

madrano wrote:He almost had a pathological need to please, didn't he? When i think of all the positive comments from friends and foes about his overwhelmingly pleasant personality, i can't help but wonder where that came from. I didn't get a sense of what (if anything) might have created it from what DKG told us of his youth. ..."

DKG notes that his parents drove him hard and never seemed pleased with what he did. Perhaps this desire to please his parents carried over.

I don't have the book at hand so I will quote wiki.

Wiki:
William Taft was not seen as brilliant as a child, but was a hard worker; the demanding parents pushed the five boys toward success, tolerating nothing less. He attended Woodward High School in Cincinnati, a public school and highly competitive, where he excelled. His success was not enough to fully satisfy his parents, who felt he had a tendency towards laziness.

[Alias Reader]

New-York Historical Society

February 14, 1884, was a fateful day in the life of future president Theodore Roosevelt. In a tragic turn of events, both his mother and his first wife died ‪‬. Cause of death: his mother perished from typhoid fever. His wife died of Bright's disease (which causes kidney failure) just two days after giving birth to their daughter, Alice.

[madrano]

Thanks for that reminder of such a sad day, Alias. This was a sad story, one flesh out in our book. Until reading it here, i knew it as a statement of fact but not how it impacted his private life.

Also, thanks for recalling the reason Taft wanted to stay in the Philippines. I agree with him but more than that i admired that he did so despite having his lifelong dream dangled before him. Say what we will about him, he allowed duty to rule his public life.

I remember that part of the book about Taft's youth, i suppose i just didn't associate it with his people-pleasing attitude. However, you may be quite right. It would alter one's outlook. I also wonder, and hope to learn when i read a bio strictly about him in the future, in what way his parents felt he failed to satisfy. Was it just grades or more? Maybe they thought his people skills were an indication of laziness?