Wuthering Heights
discussion
Twilight is better than Wuthering Heights?
Well, thinking about it, I wouldn't call Heathcliff and Cathy's passions for each other "love", but whatever it is, I think it's more interesting than Edward and Bella's love.
While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words 'Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'crabs' 'a knife in the eye' or 'the death of your first born child'. Wuthering Heights is a classic that will be around for generations to come, Twilight is mediocre young reader nonsense that will be forgotten in the next five to ten years.
Comparing Twilight to Wuthering Heights seemed inevitable. But it's like comparing White Castle hamburgers to filet mignon. People do love White Castles, myself included (though I have no such feelings for Twilight). So people do eat them and enjoy them. But White Castles, yummy as they are, don't have any meat. No actual real meat, if ya know what I mean.BTW, my name is Grace too, so I'll sign this....
Grace Two
It will be a sad day when Twilight is at the same level as Wuthering Heights. I personally didn't love Wuthering Heights, but it is impossible to ignore Bronte's superior writing when compared to Twilight. For real though…those twilight books were pretty entertaining in middle school.
Upon it's publication, Wuthering Heights was criticized for being "sentimental and gothic" (if I may use Fijke's words) The criticism was due to the convincing portrayal of such wild emotions as hatred and obsession. Keep in mind, Jane Austen's death was only a few decades prior; a book like Wuthering Heights was a bold literary move.Twilight was also criticized, but mostly because people felt it was poorly written and sexist. Though it is sexist, Stephanie Meyer did not write it that way out of literary boldness.
The books are not comparable.
I say this in response to that girl, not you Grace. And don't worry, you're not wrong.
Twilight...better than WH?
WTF
NO
What is this world coming to?
WTF
NO
What is this world coming to?
Don't mean to be radical, but someone who says such ludicrous things doesn't deserve to read anything in the first place, and should stick to the Twilight movies...It's not even a matter of discussion. One is a classical piece of literature, which of course anyone could enjoy or not, and the other is a commercial operation built on the naivete of teenagers...
Well, anyone should feel totally free to say, I like Twilight more than I like Wuthering Heights.I might rise an eyebrow, but I can live with this, as the Romans used to say "De gustibus non disputandum est". But when you tell me that it's better, well, that's where I draw the line. Wuthering Heights came out in an historical context where women where forced to use pseudonyms in order to publish their work.Wuthering Heights features some of the first strong female characters in history of literature. Yes, no one knows whether fifty years from now, Twilight is gonna be taught in english literature classes, I don't know. But right now this comparison has no reason to be. When there's so much difference (age, genre, historical context) it's hard to make a comparison. And it's something you can also apply to music, movies, even sports teams.
Fijke wrote: "Well, apparently people are making the comparison, so they see a reason for it. As for whether Twilight will ever be taught in English Literature, I hope not, but that's actually another reason why..."I wasn't thinking about a scholarly context, but a much more informal one. There can't be a winner between The Hunger Games (a YA saga much more respected than the Twilight one) and I don't know, Portnoy's complaint by Philip Roth. There's too much difference. I think we're saying basically the same thing without understanding each other. Everyone could and should discuss the two books, they're more than welcome, but I just think that the two books couldn't be put in a competition on the basis of which one's better.
One wrote: "While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words 'Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'c..."I think you're my new literary idol.
I've never read Twilight so I suppose I can not criticize… but i REALLY really want too!
Jakub wrote: "Jamie Lynn wrote: "Wuthering Heights will always be one of my all time favorites but I think the twilight books appeal to the younger set. I'm just glad they're reading and not texting :) It's the ..."That's exactly my point
One wrote: "While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words 'Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'c..."^ that reply made my day.
As an author who fell in love with the classics at an early age, who relished the written word as soon as I discovered its beauty, I find the whole discussion invigorating. Whether you love or hate either book (I happen to have loved Wuthering Heights even with all of its dark intent), there is something sublime in the fact that books are the topic of any disagreement. I read an article not that long ago which stated that in 10 years (give or take) the world would have no need for books. The digital age would make them obsolete. Of course as one who consumes the written word as readily as ice cream in summer, it alarmed me to no end. This discussion in general lets me know that article is very likely full of crap. Only time will tell where Twilight stands on the literary stage in the far future. One thing must be said about it; like Harry Potter, it inspired a generation to pick up a book and read. It generated a hunger for the written word and a curiosity for other books as well. Perhaps those who have read Twilight will also discover the joy of Wuthering Heights. We can only hope. I personally thank you Grace for being the advocate of such a worthy book (and one of my personal favorites). I like your style and your spirit.
One wrote: "While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words 'Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'c..."Snort! Snicker! Thanks for the giggles!
I think for high school girls Twilight is more relatable. I read Wuthering Heights in high school and I couldn't stand Cathy or Heathcliff. At age 14 I would have totally preferred Twilight over Wuthering Heights but I would have known WH to be the better story. The things that bothered me now about Twi- would have bothered me then. Consequently, right after WH I read Jane Eyre which I adored. Rochester v Edward? NO contest!
I would never say that Twilight, as a whole, is better than Wuthering Heights. But there are similarities regarding the concept of a soul mate and obsessive love. WH presents obsessive love as destructive, whereas Twilight suggests it is true love. Both illustrate the lengths one might go to for this type of love. It is possible that Twilight is better developed, as your friend claimed, because it is a series not just a stand-alone novel. However I personally feel that Bronte's characters are better developed and more realistic.
Twilight is a book that was made a better movie than the book itself is (which is very rare). Twilight might be OK for not so smart adolescents, but it has not art in it. Wuthering Heights is art. It is beautiful. It is a book that can make you hate all the characters, but still love every word in it. There is just no comparison.
I love the classics...Wuthering Heights is one of my favorite books. Honestly I ,do not see the comparison toTwilight. They are two totally different books. Stephanie Meyer's, brainchild might become a classic one day(not sure how),but to me nothing says angst likeBronte's WH. Now that is a book!
Puleeeze. If Twilight is ever assigned in every single literature class in the world (I read Wuthering Heights 4 times in different classes) then we can discuss a comparison. How are these 2 books even mentioned in the same post?
Joy wrote: "Puleeeze. If Twilight is ever assigned in every single literature class in the world (I read it 4 times in different classes) then we can discuss a comparison. How are these 2 books even mentioned ..."I believe there is a mention of Wuthering Heights in Twilight. I think it absurd for the two to be compared, but that is what has been going on in my high school...
One wrote: "While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words 'Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'c..." Hahaha! Your comment cracked me up!
Jamie Lynn wrote: "Fijke wrote: "Actually, Wuthering Heights was heavily critised when it was first published for being sentimental and gothic. I'm not saying that I think Twilight will be a literary classic some day..."Very true! When competing with the extremely simulating movies, games, etc. It's hard to get younger people interested in reading, which to them may seem boring compared to the flashing screens. I guess when a book draws teenagers to read, it should be accepted! The storyline of the saga isn't very intrigue, but I'm sure there is something to be learned from it.
Speaking of which, I do hope that British drama "Sherlock" will persuade the younger generation to read the books. The stories are very intrigue, and my vocabulary improves every time I read it.
Grace wrote: "Comparing Twilight to Wuthering Heights seemed inevitable. But it's like comparing White Castle hamburgers to filet mignon. People do love White Castles, myself included (though I have no such feel..."Hello Grace two! :)
Very strangely, I recently overheard a discussion two friends were having. One was saying that "Ruth Chris Steakhouse" was the superior, and the other that "McDonalds" was. As you can imagine, it was very entertaining to listen to that argument.
I completely see where you are coming from (with a perfect visual memory), and I agree! :D
Grace One ;)
It's a shame people can't see the benefits of using books like Twilight, which do capture kids' imaginations (rightly or wrongly) as a tool for introducing more serious and better written literature into the classroom. In fact, assigning questions such as, 'Compare character development in Twilight to that of Wuthering Heights' would be an interesting way to get kids to start to think for themselves and (hopefully!) come to the conclusion that Bronte is infinitely superior, and more importantly why. And for those kids who don't reach that conclusion -as inevitably there will always be kids who won't - at least they will probably have paid more attention to the assignment than any other they have been taught in English.For me, reading is a journey. I didn't grow up in a household with books at all so I was pretty much left to my own devices. I spent my teen years devouring Anne Rice, Stephen King and Harry Potter and I didn't have anybody telling me to read anything better. I found Shakespeare, Austen and Eliot when I was ready to. If we start to look at all books, even terribly written ones like Twilight, as gateways to other reading rather than trying to bash people over the head and tell them how AWFUL their taste is and that they shouldn't be allowed to read EVER then maybe there would be a lot less animosity within the reading community and more young kids picking up books they would ordinarily not have considered. Just a thought :o)
I think the comparison is made because Bella is reading WH in Twilight, and they use some lines. Twilight was enjoyable for me. I did not care for WH. Healthcliff was a monster, but he never really recognized the fact. He married Isabella with the intention to torture her. Edward believed he was a monster and tried to fight every urge of the monster inside of him. Neither Bella or Cathy were the sharpest tools in the shed, but Bella at least stayed true to the man she loved unlike Cathy that married for money.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea of preferring a book because the protagonists behave better or are inherently nicer people. Most literature of value relies on more complicated analyses of the human character; Wuthering Heights is engaging precisely because of the destructive forces of both Catherine and Heathcliffe's personalities. It's far more interesting to try to understand why one character is a monster. Heathcliffe, for me, is one of my least favourite characters in all of literature and it is so interesting to see how an author manages to create such a strong reaction in her readers.
Melanie wrote: "I think the comparison is made because Bella is reading WH in Twilight, and they use some lines. Twilight was enjoyable for me. I did not care for WH. Healthcliff was a monster, but he never rea..."Of course Cathy Married for money! She lived during the Victorian Era not during the women's liberation movement or even at a time when money prospects were good for women! (Hell, back then the author had to pretend to be a guy just to publish the book!)
Back then, if you wished to show your face in society as a respectable woman, or just make a good life for yourself and future children you didn't marry for love! You married money, it was actually often arranged marriage and young girls as young as 14/15 were frequently married at the time.
Most visual adaptations show Cathy marrying Edgar as a young adult but she might have only been 14 or 15 in actuality. And she would have married Heathcliff had he not run off to sulk.
Instead she opted to safeguard her future and the lifestyle she was accustomed to. I don't see that so much as disloyalty as much as I see it as strategy, cunning and looking to the future..
Don't forget also, she would have been under a lot of societal and familial pressure to "marry a good man" a good man meaning Edgar and most certainly not Heathcliff. Just because Nessy doesn't outright say it, doesn't mean it wasn't happening!
I'm not saying she's more loyal or smarter than Bells, but you have to remember, Cathy is from a completely different time to Bella. She doesn't have the freedom Bella is given, she isn't given the same choices in life Bella is given, she has to live up to completely different expectations than Bella does (from education, to social graces and what role she plays in society at the time.) She wasn't taught what Bella would have been taught. Rebellion on the part of Cathy would have brought far more dire consequences, not just for her, but for her whole family. Whereas Bella could just be seen as a typical teen for being rebellious. Cathy risked societal shunning, potential poverty and even family shame!
Plus, she's at least more headstrong than Bella, with a clearly defined personality. I still am not 100% sure just what personality Bella has. =/
Edward is your typical vampire teen heartthrob. I'm not saying that that's bad, just saying he's a character that has quite literally been done to death. But how often in literature do you see an actual real awful bastard as your main lead/romantic hero? Also Edward is a vampire, to think of yourself as the monster is just part of the gig. It's almost like an unwritten law or something!
Heathcliff was no vampire or creature of the night. He was an embittered man who may or may not be a sociopath.
I find Heathcliff, well not likable, but I prefer him to Edward. Mainly because, as awful as he was, at least he had some balls! Edward reminds me more of a kitten than a supposed immortal creature of the night. I mean geez. Even Angel (or Angelus) was more terrifying!
Heathcliff sets out to prove his naysayers wrong, win back the girl of his dreams and exact revenge.
Edward just sort of mopes and broods and continuously repeats high school for some unknown reason. Seriously, why do the Cullens repeat High School all the time? Seems really lame for an immortal vampire.
And just so you know, I'm mainly focusing on the first book as that was the only book of the "saga" I read and don't want to read the rest. So I do apologize if Eddy mans up later or does something that seems threatening (don't know if he does or doesn't.)
If we're going to define the value of a book on goodness, ethics and morals of their characters, very few little books are going to make the cut. Two characters who pass almost every minute of their lives staring and brooding after each other, I don't think has any kind of depth
Grace wrote: "Today I was talking to a girl I know in my high school about Wuthering Heights, and she told me that the love of Bella and Edward is greater than that of Cathy and Heathcliff (this is strictly depe..." I totally agree with your points.I do like Twilight and I love Wuthering Heights although they are not comparable they are two different books, you can say shall I buy a ford or a vauxhall, but you can't say shall I buy a ford or a apple! Probably not making sense but things have to be mildly similar to compare. In terms of thought provoking and highly accomplished literary prose WH has to win hands down!
I agree with you, except for one thing. To me it's right to books in the right perspective, in different box, avoiding to compare books that shouldn't be compared. Not on the basis of the good and bad categories, it's not that simple, but because of the overwhelming difference between this two novels. They share only their association with the romance genre, but historical context, themes, characters, almost everything else says totally different things about the two books. It's like someone said a few post earlier, there's no point comparing a car and a refrigerator, they're two different things
Wuthering Heights,definitely!
Fijke wrote: "Saying that these books share an association to the romance genre is risky. I would classify Twilight as a YA romance, but Wuthering Heights is extremely different from what people later started to call romance novels."Excellent point. People forget that the main reason WH is called a "romance" novel is because it was written in the Romantic Period of literature.
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A few people have said that they are unsure whether or not Twilight will be taught in classrooms, or how it will be received a generation from now. This idea seems to imply that classics are accidental. All classics are intentional; the writer has a very specific intent and purpose in mind, and through a laborious process of trial/error/revision/commitment, come out with a "finished" work that successfully conveys their intent and purpose. The actual story (sometimes) has less to do with it than people realize. Take the plot of Romeo and Juliet: stupid story + brilliant execution = classic.
Twilight is escapist literature. Cemre said it was like porn, which is not a bad comparison, however extreme. The only purpose porn serves is escapism; if it floats your boat, that's fine, but don't act like there something valuable in it.
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Jude (message 36) Great idea, but it's not something every teacher would be able to do fruitfully.
One wrote: "While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words 'Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'c..."LOL!
I loved Twilight. I think I rated it 5 stars here on GR. Wuthering Heights, without question, is a 'better' book, but I gave it 2 stars because I didn't enjoy it. Does that make sense? WH must be held to a higher standard. Reading it is climbing a mountain, as opposed to walking in a park. The reward from the top of the mountain is amazing, but it's a gruelling climb.I do love classics. I love Jane Eyre and everything Charlotte Bronte ever wrote. I love George Eliot etc etc. Wuthering Heights is a wonderful story, but I liked reading Twilight better and we should not pretend to be shocked that most kids would also prefer Twilight. Wuthering Heights is tough for kids (and most adults) to get through, partly because the language is old and partly because it was the style in the 1800s to tell stories through a narrator, in this case, Ellen the maid. Consequently we never really get inside Cathy's or Heathcliff's head, and that is extremely frustrating for a modern day reader.
Grace, your friend is a little silly to claim Twilight is a 'better' book, but she can certainly claim to like it more, just as you've said.
I'm not surprised that a general, especially young, reader would prefer the extremely consumable Twilight series over Wuthering Heights. Wuthering Heights is not a book that one falls deeply in love with immediately. I spent my academic career (grad and undergrad) working with WH. I feel anyone who claims they loved the book at first read is full of it and trying to seem smart. That being said, I do love WH. But I had to learn to love it and it was an arduous journey. I love it in so much that I hate it, and in hating it, love it, if that makes any sense. I read it before I had to and wanted to throw it against the wall at times. Then I had to read it and learned to study it. It is a complex novel full of layer upon layer of story and character development. Just recall how many layers of narrators there are? It is often forgotten, but the novel starts with Lockwood (a strange character to say the least) writing a letter to an unknown associate (whom the reader essentially becomes). It morphs into Nelly's narration, but she tells stories once removed herself. The narrator bias alone is enough to write a thesis on. It has the kind of complexity that Ms. Meyers couldn't even dream of thinking of, let alone writing. Twilight is extremely accessible to those who want to be told what to think, feel, and believe. For those ready to find their own minds, form their own opinions and look deeper into the world, literary and physical, then my dear Emily Bronte will make a fine companion for traveling down that path. She won't take you there, she won't even necessarily guide you in a way that seems helpful at the time, but she'll get you where you need to be in the end.
Brooke wrote: "Twilight...better than WH?WTF
NO
What is this world coming to?"
Thank God for your reply.... I was getting worried listening or reading bout everyone's thoughts. Your comment should sum it up about this discussion.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that she's wrong.
I think we also need to take the actual writing into account (I apologize if anyone already said this; I completely skipped over all of the comments). I not only enjoyed Emily Bronte's writing style and elevated diction, but I found the perspective of the story being told to be very interesting.
I read Wuthering Heights two years ago, so I do not remember the details, but I do remember that I enjoyed reading this book more than I did with Twilight, much because of the advanced level of reading for me at the time.
I read Wuthering Heights two years ago, so I do not remember the details, but I do remember that I enjoyed reading this book more than I did with Twilight, much because of the advanced level of reading for me at the time.
I try to would to be reasonable:"Wuthering Heights" is an adult tale and "Twilight" is a tale's children..Nothing compares one book to another..That's ridiculous compares the two each..
One wrote: "While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words 'Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'c..."I have to agree, though must confess I haven't read Twilight or seen any of the movies. But to compare them is rather like comparing Beethoven's ninth symphony with Lorde's song "Royals".
I didn't like "Wuthering Heights" at all, and I did like "Twilight", to some extent, so I gave them 1 and 3 stars, respectively. But I still recognise that, objectively speaking, "Wuthering Heights" is by far a better book, better written, thorough character development etc. I just didn't enjoy it at all and found it hard to trudge through. But to say that "Twilight" is a better book, well that's just stupid. "Twilight", as much as I enjoyed it while I read it, is the literary equivalent of fast food, it wont nourish you in the long run.
Christina wrote: "I didn't like "Wuthering Heights" at all, and I did like "Twilight", to some extent, so I gave them 1 and 3 stars, respectively. But I still recognise that, objectively speaking, "Wuthering Heights..."this should wrap up the whole discussion!
I'm not a fan of Wuthering Heights. I find it to have lots of problems regarding story-telling and characters in general. That having been said, WH has influenced literature imensely, not to mention the author knew she wanted to divulge a concept, which she did very well. The book to me is more like a failed study of personality than a love story. Twillight, on the other hand, is just badly written chick-flick, in which the girl with the mediocre personally finds "her prince". It barely makes it to the "book" category and, unlike works like Harry Potter and The Hunger Games (to which it's often compared to), teaches us nothing but "it's nice to be a damsel in distress".
Bia: I think "failed study" may be a little harsh, but then, I'm not completely clear on what you mean. I would love some clarification, because its an interesting stance.
And "It barely makes it in to the 'book' category" is also harsh, but accurate. The most literary thing about Twilight is that Bella Swan's name is beautiful swan ... I guess one could discuss comparisons to the ugly duckling story.
Felix J. wrote: "Bia: I think "failed study" may be a little harsh, but then, I'm not completely clear on what you mean. I would love some clarification, because its an interesting stance.
And "It barely makes ..."
I've always had problems with Wuthering Heights because I don't like the fact that we never get a good view of the characters and Heathcliff becomes some sort of blind spot, which is done in purpose and in a way to accentuate the doubt we have on his true motivations. I was actually just discussing whether this is somehow caused by the choice of narrator for the book: I was never quite able to get Heathcliff through Nelly's words, and that's probably the effect Emily wanted to cause in order to heighten the concept of the book.
Even if the story didn't please me, though, WH is arguably a classic- while, like you said, one can't engage in a serious literary discussion about Twillight.
Grace wrote: "Today I was talking to a girl I know in my high school about Wuthering Heights, and she told me that the love of Bella and Edward is greater than that of Cathy and Heathcliff (this is strictly depe..."Are you kidding me? LOL. Just as an example, perhaps you could tell your friend that WH was a novel written out of the genius of an author who died shortly after delivering it, not packed up in a satin lace to be sold to obsessed minds to generate golden coins to its writer. Also, WH offes a very profound characterisation of both nature & mankind, not to mention an outstanding dramatic plot in nearly 300 pages. How many books does the Twilight series has, anyway? I hope my considerations have been helpful!
Carrie wrote: "Grace wrote: "Today I was talking to a girl I know in my high school about Wuthering Heights, and she told me that the love of Bella and Edward is greater than that of Cathy and Heathcliff (this is..."
I'm totally on your side...You said everything in simple words..No one would describe it better..
I'm totally on your side...You said everything in simple words..No one would describe it better..
One wrote: "While I'm not much of a Wuthering Heights fan I still hope this is an amusing jest. Any sentence that begins with the words ''Twilight is better than...' should only with terms like 'the plague' 'crabs' 'a knife in the eye' or 'the death of your first born child'. ..."A poke in the eye with a sharp stick?
I tried, just to see what the deal was. I couldn't . . . the writing was too ludicrous.
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I personally am not a fan of Twilight, but I'd like to say that I think Wuthering Heights is better in terms of quality. I am partial towards the classics, but I do objectively (to the best of my ability) find Wuthering Heights technically a better story. Yes, Wuthering Heights has some very unlikable characters, but I found it much more interesting than twilight. I feel like twilight was just written to satisfy a woman's fantasies of having a handsome man obsess over her. I did not learn anything from Twilight! Wuthering Heights shows how revenge can lead to destruction. That is just my opinion, and yes, I have read both stories (only the first novel in twilight, since I didn't feel compelled to continue the story).
Personally, I feel that twilight is more comparable to Romeo and Juliet than it is to WH. (I saw the second movie, and the author pretty much used the same plot from R&J, the movie even indirectly told us.)
But I could see how people do decide to compare it a lot (at least in my experience). Bella and Edward were obsessed with each other, as was Heathcliff and Cathy. Based on the texts, I feel that Heathcliff's obsession outranks Edward. (let's just be honest, he's kind of a sociopath.) And Edward is much kinder than Heathcliff.
Anyway, what do you think? If you actually read this, thanks for listening to my mini rant. I'd love to hear what others think about this. :)
Sincerely,
- Grace
(p.s. I am not trying to offend anyone who disagrees with my opinion. Heck, I'll admit, its possible that I'm wrong ((I don't think I am, but I'm willing to be enlightened)), so please don't take this in the wrong way.)