Question about Ted Bundy's crimes

[Yun]

Had Bundy deliberately tortured and sexually abused his victims during the period when they were conscious? I just finished Ann Rule's book, and I got impression that his hideous sexual offense mostly were done during victims unconscious periods or, after they died. If my impression was true, Bundy's victims were "relatively" less suffered than those who were captured for the sole purpose of torturing.

I know this doesn't make Bundy less "evil", but it's just a small detail that's different from other serial killers.

But on the other hand I found it hard to believe that he didn't deliberately tortured or sexually abused his victims when they were still conscious. Over 100 victims!

[Michael]

If you look at his last murders, and the one that got away after a severe beating, you'd have to question whether he abused, tortured his victims prior to their death or not. We'll never know for sure. But you also have to think about the mental anguish that his victims suffered up to the time he killed them knowing they were probably going to die.

[Duane]

I don't think Ann Drool is a good source for this kind of information. Somebody who wrote one of the various other books on Bundy might have researched it.

In fact, it might require going through the coroners' reports in order to determine whether the victims were alive when Bundy inflicted whatever damage on their bodies to really find out. Coroners *can* make that determination; it's called "forensic medicine"; there are books on it, and you'd better have a strong stomach and not be prone to nightmares. Some of the stuff is sealed by the courts to avoid traumatizing the victims' families with the details of how they died...

With the critters who commit these crimes, it's all about what "gets them off", or produces sexual arousal, and with *some* of them the victim has to be *dead*. (Look up Henry Lee Lucas... .) Others will repeatedly strangle and revive the victim in order to gratify themselves. Bundy's only differentiating characteristic was that he was fairly well-educated and middle-class and knew enough law to be able to work the legal system, actually. Other than that he was just one twisted subhuman animal among many...

[Michael]

Duane wrote: "I don't think Ann Drool is a good source for this kind of information. Somebody who wrote one of the various other books on Bundy might have researched it.

In fact, it might require going through..."

You're correct, in some cases regarding a coroner being able to tell if the victim were alive when being abused and tortured. However in so many of the Bundy cases where there were often skeletons and fragments of skeletons the corner can't tell.

As for the late Ann Rule; there is little doubt that she wrote her books for profit but considering that she never lost a law suit regarding her works it would seem that there was at least a degree of accuracy.

[Duane]

Oh, she was *accurate* all right... she just wasn't incisive at all w/r/t criminal motivations or behavior. She just went for the sensationalism, to titillate people (which, as you point out, sells books). But that's unfortunate, because in the aftermath of *her* having written about something, there's less chance that somebody *competent* would bother to do a *real* analysis of the crimes, or the criminals... (Bundy is probably an exception because of the *extreme* publicity surrounding him) - which is really important, if we're ever to get to the point of being able to identify and avoid these creatures while they're at large among us...

And they're *always* among us - whether or not they commit crimes depends only on whether or not they're able to find vulnerable prey.

[Michael]

Duane wrote: "Oh, she was *accurate* all right... she just wasn't incisive at all w/r/t criminal motivations or behavior. She just went for the sensationalism, to titillate people (which, as you point out, sel..."

I have to admit that I'm rather confused by your saying that she was accurate but then suggest that she didn't tell the full story. For her to be accurate she has to tell it all; so was she accurate or was she not?

[Angela]

Duane wrote: "I don't think Ann Drool is a good source for this kind of information. Somebody who wrote one of the various other books on Bundy might have researched it.

In fact, it might require going through..."

Duane wrote: "I don't think Ann Drool is a good source for this kind of information. Somebody who wrote one of the various other books on Bundy might have researched it.

In fact, it might require going through..."


Ann Rule knew Ted personally working with him for a suicide hotline. They also wrote letters and she sent him money in jail. Ann knew more than you might think.

[Yun]

Actually based on Rule's book, the violence in Florida was done during girls were still sleeping, and the bite marks on the butt of one girl was done after she was dead, based on forensic examination. The fact that those violence being done after victims were dead was presented by one of Bundy's defense lawyer, because, she claimed, that victims did not suffer much (forgot original text).

Other crimes he committed seemed to be in this pattern: luring victims to his car, hitting them by a crowbar which caused victims unconscious, driving to some isolated place and just kill them.

It's quite surreal to me that a man could kill so many people during only several years. After finishing this long reading I really don't feel like reading any more true crime books. Energy and motion wise, both, were so exhausting. But I admit I found most part of Rule's book riveting. Not sure because her relationship with Bundy, or it's just first time I read true crime book.
And I doubted for a little while about Rule's motive to write such book, but I found I have no problem with her money motive. Overall her book stays quite truthful and neutral tone in terms of judgment, until years after when truth came out.

There's a postscript by Rule's daughter, in which she revealed that once during the period those school girls missing, she was taken by her mother to her office (suicide crisis center) for her safety, where she found this handsome coworker of her mother, who was uncomfortable to look at her, and all the time just avoid looking at her. She wore same type of hair style - part from middle - as Bundy's victims!
I think Rule did go through a lot!

[Brenda]

In the late 70's in Toronto Canada, there was a serial killer with an appetite for crack addicted street hookers. He killed ten women before he himself was murdered by a boyfriend of his potential next victim. I am editing the story now, called the Necktie Party. He is a gay man and doesn't care for women sexually at all. He kills them to ease the pain of his childhood, his own mother a crack head hooker. The Necktie Party, coming soon!! Brenda Rae Schoolcraft

[Angela]

Sounds good. Is it on goodreads yet?

[Yun]

Brenda wrote: "In the late 70's in Toronto Canada, there was a serial killer with an appetite for crack addicted street hookers. He killed ten women before he himself was murdered by a boyfriend of his potential ..."

sounds intriguing!

[Brenda]

Greetings. Thank you! I am in the process of editing the story now, as we speak. Will be available on Amazon in a couple months, before the new year. My girlfriend who was working the streets, narrowly escaped being strangled by this guy, running out of her apartment naked, when he came towards her with the necktie, taunt between his two hands. True story! Of course it will be a fictionalized version. Brenda Rae Schoolcraft

[Angela]

I am sorry you had such a chaotic childhood. But a lot of writers tell their stories in autobiography form or fictionalized, and I love reading those type of books. Have you read the Ann Rule book on Ted Bundy? Its the best one out there. She sadly passed away recently.

[Brenda]

Oh thank you so much! I definitely will mark it as one to read. I think Ann Rule is an awesome writer. I didn't know she had passed. Very nice talking with you. I would be so honored if you would read my story Alice Had a Palace. I promise a hard copy when I have them. Its available on Amazon. Of course a review would be the icing on the cake. Hope your evening is wonderful. Happy reading!

[Brenda]

Hi Angela. You peaked my interest in Ann Rule's story, The Stranger Beside Me. Ironically, she had a friend relationship with him, before she knew he was a killer. She actually liked the guy. Just goes to show, a serial killer can be like a sheep in wolf's clothing. Taking a deeper look into her life, sadly in her last days, in a wheelchair, her own son was abusing her. Yelling in her face, demanding more money than his twenty five thousand a month he was already receiving. Cold hearted people. Your mother is dying and you are abusing her? Sad and interesting at the same time. Thank you for bringing her to my attention. The world has lost a great crime writer. R.I.P. Ann Rule xoxo

[Angela]

Brenda wrote: "Hi Angela. You peaked my interest in Ann Rule's story, The Stranger Beside Me. Ironically, she had a friend relationship with him, before she knew he was a killer. She actually liked the guy. Just ..."

I actually didn't know all the details of her last days and her abusive son, that's so sad. Her daughter used to take pictures for her books and is a writer herself, I wonder how she treated her and what went on between the siblings. Its such a good book you have to read it.

I would love a copy of your book. I can't read it or get it from Amazon, I do not have a Kindle. I need REAL books. I would gladly review it as well. Are you on any groups on Goodreads? I am in a ton, check my profile and see the groups and then join some of them that would be fun. I am on goodreads so much as I'm so addicted, it's a wonder I have any time to read lol.

I made a nice book haul today from the library sale. I will send you a list of the ones I got, they were 50 cents a piece. I am stoked. I have so many books from the library I have to watch the due dates so its hard for me to actually read the books I own!

Angela

[Brenda]

Wow Angela. We have a lot in common. Our love of the written word. I love books more than anything! I read everything. Its like a thirst that can't be quenched. From one great book to another. I tell you what, as soon as I have a hard copy, you will have one, with a signed autograph. Just never know, I could be the next literary giant. You can actually download it onto your phone, I know a couple of my friends who read my book that way. if that is not an option for you, I will make sure you have one of the first copies. Have a wonderful day, and we will talk soon. Cheers from British Columbia Canada, Brenda.