Kull: Exile of Atlantis

[Vincent]

Yeah, I liked the un-Kull stories as well. Dale Rippke postulated in a great essay that the evil priest in The Altar and the Scorpion was an ancestor (in a racial sense, not a direct lineage sense) of Xaltotun and Akivasha.

Looking forward to your thoughts on By This Axe I Rule!

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

I finished By This Axe I Rule! (For some reason the title reminds me of the guy in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure who finishes his speech by saying "San Dimas High School Football RULES!")

Since this was not published as a Kull story, REH re-worked it and it became the first published Conan story The Phoenix on the Sword. I mention this because I read the Conan story first, but I actually prefer the Kull story.

It feels like the Kull stories in this collection, including the fragments, have told a story of Kull's reign and they fit somewhat into a larger picture. This story once again revisits the "there's a pre-existing law in place and Kull can't do anything about it" theme, and I was happy to see this resolved.

What felt out of place was the people's sudden dislike and distrust of Kull, when in all prior stories he seemed to have won the hearts of the people. I know this was supposed to have been due to the work of the mad minstrel, but it just seemed so sudden.

But overall I really enjoyed it although not as much as a couple of the other stories.

[Vincent]

I agree that the stories feel like they belong to a larger picture. And, yeah, I get that about the people's sudden dislike and distrust of Kull. Maybe a certain portion always felt that way, and something (maybe the mad minstrel, or maybe some other event) emboldened them to come out of the woodwork?

Even today, we can see society mostly swinging in one direction, then something or someone happens, and suddenly we realize a lot of people are unhappy with the way society is moving. But REH could have conveyed that better, for sure.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

You're right of course Vincent. I think I was expecting to find that there was some sorcery behind it all and then I was kind of let down to find that there wasn't. That probably comes from Thoth-Amon appearing in the Conan story, and of course Thulsa Doom's sudden appearance at the end of the cat story earlier in the collection.

Which raises this point: most of Kull's adventures so far have been sword vs. sword adventures, with the exception of the Mirrors of Tuzun Thune and The Cat and the Skull which are sword vs. magic stories. I think S&S is at its finest in the sword vs. magic stories, which can be reinterpreted as man vs. the unknown which is the root of horror stories, cosmic or otherwise. Also, these stories seem to be descended from man vs. the gods (or fate) which are the basis of many Greek myths. Conan seems to have tapped into this vein more than Kull, at least so far, which might be a reason the Conan character has enjoyed more enduring popularity and success than the Kull character. Just a thought.

[Vincent]

Yes. I think "true" sword & sorcery started with Conan. With Kull, he was trying new things, finding what worked (sold) and what didn't. I think the "Shadow Kingdom" accidentally hit it, but REH didn't realize what he had done, perhaps. I think he hit on the formula solidly between "By This Axe I Rule!" and "Phoenix on the Sword."

That's one of the things I like about the Kull stories. They are sort of proto-Sword & Sorcery - practice runs, in a way. It was REH experimenting with something new, not quite getting there, but getting close - and I think when "By This Axe I Rule!" was returned with feedback, he nailed it.

You're right, he really was blending and riffing on story tropes found in the Greek Myths, throwing in history, various adventure stories (Haggard & Burroughs, etc), and his own voice.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Vincent wrote: "...That's one of the things I like about the Kull stories. They are sort of proto-Sword & Sorcery - practice runs, in a way...."

I agree! I think I actually like the Kull stories better overall than the Conan stories, many of which started cannibalizing earlier stories' plots. Kull seems more fresh, and the feeling comes across that REH was making it up as he went along, in a good way.

[Vincent]

There is something startlingly fresh about the Kull stories.

For me, it really feels like I am delving into something long ago and probably would have been forgotten, except for this ragged (and in some cases incomplete) scrolls...

There's a darkness to the Kull stories that draws me in and envelopes me.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Swords of the Purple Kingdom - once again, conspirators are plotting to overthrow Kull! For the first time in the Kull stories, things start to feel a little repetitive. The second half of the plot takes place in a deserted gardens/ruins that has a sordid history of evil doings, but unfortunately nothing is ever made of this. Delcardes appears again, this time without the cat, but once again like an NBA groupie she is looking to get married, apparently an early forerunner of the Kardashian clan. I was wondering about the title, which is so vague that I can only surmise that Howard was hoping to evoke thoughts of Zane Grey's Riders of the Purple Sage which was originally published in 1912. Without having read all the other Kull stories I would have probably liked this one just fine, but in comparison it just isn't one of the best in the collection.

[Vincent]

LOL! The Kardashian clan comment actually made me laugh. It was perfect.

Nice surmise on the Zane Grey title connection possibility.

Yeah, it was a bit on the repetitive side. I found all the marriage issues that Kull had to deal with to be repetitive, but plot-wise, I can see your point. Of course, it wasn't published during REH's lifetime.

This one lacks the existential philosophy that I feel really characterize the Kull stories. He does show a lot of depth and caring toward his subjects, though.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

I read the poem The King and the Oak. There are two versions in the collection - the rough draft is in the Miscellanea section after "Kings of the Night" (which is the next story I'll be reading).

The poem tells a brief story of Kull riding at night to the sea when the trees come to life. Kull begins to grapple with an Oak who tells Kull that the trees ruled the land before men arrived. Kull wakes up later and it is unclear if the episode was a dream or actually happened.

I don't read a lot of poetry, but this was brief and fun. The draft version isn't much different from the published version, but different enough to be included. The published version was certainly the more polished of the two versions.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

And I finished "Kings of the Night" in which Kull is summoned by magic 100,000 years or so into the future to help Brule's descendant Bran Mak Morn fight off an incursion by the Roman Empire. I enjoyed this one although it was slow to get started. Kull appears for the 2nd and 3rd parts of the 3-part story, and the first part is mostly about BMM and his cronies fretting about how they are going to get the Northmen to fight, since they are demanding a King to lead them in battle.

I enjoyed this but was a little disappointed that this story had no illustrations - the only story in the collection that had none (aside from the poem and the miscellanea). I got attached to the illustrations - they really added to my enjoyment of the collection. The story itself is not as good as The Shadow Kingdom or The Cat and the Skull, but it was worth reading.

Having finished the main section of the collection, I am confused that Thulsa Doom didn't appear more. I had always thought he was Kull's main antagonist and if I recall correctly we only saw him in the one story.

Anyway, onto the Miscellanea section, then the Afterword which is called Atlantean Genesis I think - I assume it will be similar to the Hyborean Genesis sections of the Conan collection, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

[Vincent]

The illustrations do add a lot to the atmosphere, don't they?

I always liked this one because it was an unexpected crossover. I've often wondered what the first crossovers were (it isn't this story - Tarzan at the Earth's Core predates it, for example), so early examples of literary crossovers just fascinate me.

I think the idea that Thulsa Doom was this "main antagonist" was something that happened with the comics, or with De Camp & Carter - along the lines of their making Thoth-amon a bigger antagonist in the Conan stories than REH did.

However, I have long had this idea that the villain in "Skull-Face" was in fact Thulsa Doom - He's an Atlantean sorcerer who goes by the name "Kathulos," which is similar to the name he adopted in the Kull story. Head-canon on my part, for sure, but I like to imagine it. Thulsa Doom also appears in the Cormac Mac Art pastiches by Andrew J. Offut.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

I read the first part of the Miscellanea section, starting with the Am-Ra of the Ta-An fragments. Since it is mentioned that these predate the Kull stories by several years I will assume that they were written in the earliest years of Howard's writing career, or maybe even prior to that. They were not up to the quality of the Kull or Conan stories. There was also some mild racism, which to be fair could be interpreted different ways. It is mentioned that the Atlantean Genesis section (historical afterword) will show how these fragments tie into Kull, so I will reserve further judgment until then, but I assume at this point that they were included for completion sake as well as an example of REH's primordial soup that would eventually take greater forms.

I also read the Shadow Kingdom draft. I didn't notice much difference between it and the original, although I did not compare them side by side.

Almost done! In the next few days I will read the Delcardes' Cat draft and the Atlantean Genesis afterword and share my thoughts on those.

[Vincent]

You might remember that Am-Ra of the Ta-an was a character in the first story (Untitled, previously published as Exile of Atlantis). He did write of Am-Ra before he wrote of Kull. Exile of Atlantis kind of transitioned REH from Am-Ra to Kull.

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Vincent wrote: "You might remember that Am-Ra of the Ta-an was a character in the first story (Untitled, previously published as Exile of Atlantis)...."

Actually, I had completely forgotten that! The "Atlantean Genesis" afterword discussed that, and also gave some information on how Am-Ra came about.

First, I read the draft version of Delcardes' Cat. I'm sure there were differences between the two versions but I didn't examine them line by line so the only one that jumped out at me was "Thulses" Doom instead of Thulsa Doom.

As far as Atlantean Genesis, it was extremely insightful and placed the Kull stories in their proper perspective. Although it was interesting to see how Kull supplanted Am-Ra the same way Conan would later supplant Kull in Howard's mind and daily work, what was more interesting to me was the similarities between how Howard viewed the Biblical figure Saul and his own character Kull.

Anyway, it was an excellent selection and I'm glad I completed the collection. Next up for me, I'm going to read a little bit on some other series I'm following (starting with Discworld) then my next Howard collection will be Bran Mak Morn, since we were just introduced to him in the final story of this collection.

[Vincent]

Excellent! And good choice. Bran Mak Morn is awesome. Very dark and doomed in atmosphere.

Thank you for for sharing your thoughts here! Please do the same with Bran Mak Morn when you get to it!

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

Vincent wrote: "Excellent! And good choice. Bran Mak Morn is awesome. Very dark and doomed in atmosphere.

Thank you for for sharing your thoughts here! Please do the same with Bran Mak Morn when you get to it!"

Will do. This was fun. I hope others will read the collection and add their thoughts here too someday.

[Jason]

So in maintaining the steaming build-up for NEITHER BEG NOR YIELD, I decided to reread "The Shadow Kingdom," started with the opener "Exiles," then went backward and reread the introduction foreword from Tompkins. I like his foreword and yes, I can understand it feeling a little wordy, but moreso I think he tried a little too hard to be funny/flippant, but the information and analysis there is awesome.

I've always liked "Exiles," both as a quick story and as an introduction to the character of Kull. Simple, straightforward, full of setting and set-up.

As for the meat of my reread, while I acknowledge and appreciate the concepts and plots and creation of Kull and Brule, the wonder evoked of what's looming (behind and ahead)...I've always found this story (as several Kull tales) difficult to remain engrossed/engaged. I love "Kings of the Night" and I truly like Kull and wished more of his saga had been written. But frankly, if we don't have Brule pushing and prodding and protecting, Kull's story and life would have been real short, ending right after the fourth or fifth "Huh?"

[Vincent]

I can see that. Kull wasn't the consumate loner that Conan would later become. Kull needed his team to get there (kind of like a CW superhero show). In some ways I like this. It helps lend a sense of versimilitude between the stories by having recurring characters, but it does make Kull a little less of a self-sufficient island than Conan would later be. I think Kull, being so introspective, may have been an undiagnosed clinically depressed person. Or maybe if he'd been born in later generations, he would have become a philosopher or psychiatrist.

But the Kull stories are far more abstract than much of REH's later work, and I think that abstractness inhibits the engagement for some readers. I found myself swept away by it all on my last re-read, but found it less interesting when I read the Lancer Kull as a teenager, and really struggled with it when I read it in my 20s... but it is also true that I'd rather re-read Conan or El Borak than Kull. I couldn't even count how often I've re-read Conan or El Borak. I can count how often I've re-read Kull. Three times (once with Lancer, once with Baen, and once with Ballentine/Del Rey). I can completely see how it would be difficult to remain engrossed or engaged with Kull. So many of the stories are deep in his head.

[Jason]

The 'Untitled Draft' (p.67) featuring Kull's ride of vengeance is spectacular. I'd never read it before; it's quite the delightful tale. Some really well-written lines and terrific descriptions of characters and scenes and Kull. I quite enjoyed this, wish it had been submitted and published, would have been nice to see a final, titled and edited, version.

[Vincent]

I really liked that one too. I feel it was Kull at his most Conan-like. I also wish it had been polished up and published. It's a great story.