The Next Best Book Club discussion
Book Related Banter
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Do you worry about the future of books?
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Dan
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Jul 18, 2009 12:30PM

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Just a couple things about kindle that people complained about...it isn't at all like a computer screen. It's very comfortable to read off of. It looks just like paper. And you have the option to bookmark pages and add margin notes. It has a full keypad and allows you to make a little mark next to a line of text that opens a notepad function. Also there is a highlight option. It's very convenient, and you'll never lose your notes. I really like the thing, and I NEVER expected to be able to say that.
Crystal, please do not post your blog all over my site. One time is quite enough. There is even a spot for it, however, you need to be an active member.
Becky wrote: "Hmm... I just literally stumbled across something that brought this thread into sharp focus. I have wanted a Kindle for a while, just considering that convenience and space savings alone would be w..."
and that's why I bought a Sony eReader... the point is moot anyway, as I live out of the US a kindle wouldn't be worthwhile for me, even if they'd send me one.
My gripe is the cost of the eBooks, a little expensive considering that the publishing house doesn't have to print a copy or distribute it. I'd like to think and/or hope that the author is getting a larger share of the profits.
as for the screen giving you a headache, not an issue. the eReader (and the kindle I imagine) are not "back lit", so the screen looks almost like a sheet of paper... can't read in the dark as it doesn't produce light.
and that's why I bought a Sony eReader... the point is moot anyway, as I live out of the US a kindle wouldn't be worthwhile for me, even if they'd send me one.
My gripe is the cost of the eBooks, a little expensive considering that the publishing house doesn't have to print a copy or distribute it. I'd like to think and/or hope that the author is getting a larger share of the profits.
as for the screen giving you a headache, not an issue. the eReader (and the kindle I imagine) are not "back lit", so the screen looks almost like a sheet of paper... can't read in the dark as it doesn't produce light.


I like the feel of a book in my hand, I like checking forward to see how many pages there are in a chapter, how many chapters I have left to go. Flicking through to see what's coming up (a bad habit I know and one I'm trying to break). I love wandering around the bookstore, seeing which covers catch my eye, reading through the first page to see what grabs me. Seeing what's on offer. Even having a look around Amazon, to see what they recommend.
There's something very relaxing about turning those pages. I love it.
But I get that other people prefer to go the e-book route. It's each to their own I guess.
Charlotte wrote: "I considered buying a Sony Reader, but as I stood there in Waterstones looking at one, I realised I just couldn't do it..."
don't get me wrong... I will never give up "real" books - like you said, the sensual experience is too strong... but the eReader is great for lots of other things. I think they should go hand in hand.
Works great as an MP3 as well, so I have a place to keep my audio books, very easy interface...
don't get me wrong... I will never give up "real" books - like you said, the sensual experience is too strong... but the eReader is great for lots of other things. I think they should go hand in hand.
Works great as an MP3 as well, so I have a place to keep my audio books, very easy interface...


I think ebooks are just another form, and I don't think paper book will suffer. If we can save a few trees, why not.
I live in NYC and even in this 'great city', the library does not have everything. :)



I suppose it's like losing an mp3 player. If you lose your iPod, Apple isn't liable for the music on the harddrive. However -- and I don't buy from iTunes or know if Amazon has similar policies, so someone else might want to back this up or refute it -- if you downloaded the the book from a site where you purchased it, the license you purchased may allow you more than one download. I know that I've purchased .pdfs of books and you get multiple downloads, so it's really a matter of the inconvenience or redoing it all.
Also, just like an iPod, I'd imagine that you'd be able to sync the Kindle with your home computer so you'd have backups.

At Amazon, all of your purchases are saved as digital downloads so if you lose your Kindle, you would have to replace it but the books would be safely stored at Amazon.

Although I think that electronic books will become more popular, and more widespread I do not think they will ever completely get rid of physical books. If nothing else, I think there will always be picture books for kids. Parents love to read with their kids, and so many kids love to flip through books and look at the pictures. There isn't really a way to provide that for kids without having hard copy books.

Very good point Ashley, and as long as kids acquire a love of books and reading in that manner some will become adults who love physical books.

Many homes used to have sets of encyclopedias, which were very attractive in form and always available for browsing. Today that would be pointless, given the universe of constantly updated knowledge on the Internet. People used to browse record stores, collect vinyl records, and admire the art on their covers. But music today is often a signal downloaded from the Internet, untouched by human hands. I also like nothing better myself than cruising bookstores, browsing, and enjoying the cover art on books. But nothing remains the same forever.

I'm one of those annoying people that are riding the fence on this one. I love books but can appreciate the benefits of a Kindle. I'm going to get my Mom one for Christmas b/c she's retired and traveling a lot more. Hopefully this will make "dragging" all those books around a little easier. I don't think I'm ready for one myself though.


Shona, what was the brand/model? And what are the features about it you most appreciate vs. dislike?
I know that most of the marketing is the fight between the Kindle and the Sony, but I know that there are a bunch of other ones out there too....



Shona, what was the brand/model? And what are the f..."
Taejas,
I have a Sony E-reader. The only two dislikes I have is that it is, of course, not a real book, and the fact that when I read a really good book, I want to share it with my family and friends and with the ebook I can't do that. The positives are that I travel a lot and I can take as many books as I want with me without figuring out a way to pack them. The screen is e-ink - just like paper and it is not hard on the eyes at all. I bought a little book light so I can read it in the bed after my husband has gone to sleep. And as I said in my last post, just browsing the elibrary I've found so many authors and books that I wouldn't have picked up before - because sometimes it is hard to spent a lot of money when you are not sure of the book - it's a little easier when you try them in digital format.
As for the differences between the Kindle and the Sony, I'm not really sure as mine was a gift so I hadn't compared any e-readers before. I am glad I got the Sony, however, as we are moving to Germany in a couple of weeks and I'm not sure if the Kindle wireless things would work to download books.

Yes Fiona, he was kicking himself, and I would get lots of questions when he saw me reading a "real" book, but we've been together long enough that he knows about my obsession and shouldn't have thought he could change me!

Shona, that is exactly the model I hope to see in the future! That the change in format makes books more readily available, and opens the access to try more of the available spectrum.

I'd say electronic text books ARE a good idea if it means they don't cost as much. Goodness knows how many students struggle with finances each year.
Are ereaders about the size of a paperback? I don't know anyone who has one.
I doubt that ebooks will ever really chase away books; I have a mild stigmatism, and due to a head injury from my youth I get massive headaches when I stare too long at a "computer-like screen". For people such as myself; there will always be books.
Now I know that the fact that I read Mobipocket books to my BlackBerry and computer, and my anti-glare lenses are supposed to cut down on headaches, I still spend more time reading real books. You can't take your computer, laptop, Blackberry or Kindle into the bathtub with you.
I also firmly beleive that there will always be people who enjoy the scent of a well loved book, the weight of it in your hands, the smooth slick surface of the cover the varying textures of the pages between your fingers. I have a few books that I read now days just because of how their scent, weight and texture makes me feel, more than the content (which is memorised).
I have some ebooks, but in truth, my bookshelves are far more packed with books than my computer will ever be with ebooks.
Now I know that the fact that I read Mobipocket books to my BlackBerry and computer, and my anti-glare lenses are supposed to cut down on headaches, I still spend more time reading real books. You can't take your computer, laptop, Blackberry or Kindle into the bathtub with you.
I also firmly beleive that there will always be people who enjoy the scent of a well loved book, the weight of it in your hands, the smooth slick surface of the cover the varying textures of the pages between your fingers. I have a few books that I read now days just because of how their scent, weight and texture makes me feel, more than the content (which is memorised).
I have some ebooks, but in truth, my bookshelves are far more packed with books than my computer will ever be with ebooks.

Size depends. Most are about the size of a trade paperback. Kindle makes 2 sizes now, the second being magazine size. Current screens for kindle 2 are 6inches or 9 inches I believe. I have a kindle 1 which has a 5.5 inch screen and is about trade paperback size.

E-ink is a bunch of tiny, hmmm, capsules, I guess, each one being 1 pixel big. And each capsule is like a barrel full of ping-pong balls with white on one side and black on the other (rough analogy). When an electric charge runs through it, the amount of, eh, ping-pongs that show white vs. black changes; right now I think there are on average 8 shades of grey scale.
When a new page is called up, a charge is sent to each capsule, telling it what color to show, and that makes the new page. The computer chip in the reader tells which pixels to change, so that's why you can increase the font size and "turn pages" etc, just like on a computer or palm or even phone screen.
However, since it's a physical change and not a glow of light, you only need the electricity to tell the pixels how to change. Once the change is made, the reader just sits there, "off" in the sense of a computer being turned on and off (which is why the charge on an ereader lasts so long). It doesn't need to be on for you to see the colors of each pixel, though, it's not shining with light like a computer screen either, which is why you need light to read an ereader. Since there's no backlighting like a screen, you still need light to bounce off those physical pixels and go into your eye.
For all intents and purposes (well, as far as the science is concerned), e-ink is exactly like reading a book as opposed to a computer screen -- except that the words on the page change.
But of course all those other tangible intangibles (heft, that paper smell, being able to read in the tub, and all those other things I love) are still the province of books.
But then, as micronization gets more high tech, those ereaders will eventually be the thickness and flexibility of paper....


Readers Have Copyright Rights Too, by Jane Litte http://is.gd/4vNMD

Personally I like a book in my hand...and I love ..."
I work in a bookstore, and some publishers DO do that, because for certain authors they would sell more trades than hardcovers. Some romance authors, for example.

I think it is really supply and demand. First, consider the cost of paying for all that university-related information. Then, there are only so many people in the world willing to buy that edition of the textbook, therefore the costs go up. A small print run + expensive content = higher cost for consumer.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Weq_sHxghcg&...
I thought this was the most appropriate thread for what you see above. What did you think when it first started? Did you wait to see it reverse? VERY clever advertising!!!
I thought this was the most appropriate thread for what you see above. What did you think when it first started? Did you wait to see it reverse? VERY clever advertising!!!

I've only just come across this thread, what a fascinating discussion. I don't think the printed copy will go away, not in my lifetime anyway, but then I am nearly 62!!
However, the sooner the big mainstream publishers are consigned to history the better for all. Mainstream, wether publishers or the big book chains are responsible for the rather 'dry' selection available on the shelves at the moment, none of them are in the least concerned about the content of a new book. No consideration is given to how good the story is, the sole consideration is 'the bottom line'
It is all driven by greed, Waterstones will not stock a book unless it is 'sale or return', they then order 10 times the amount the think they can sell, to get a better price per copy. After a couple of weeks, when the initial 'fizz' has gone they sell it as part of a 3for2 offer, a little later it will be at half price, after another month most unsold copies are returned. Still later they eventually pay up for those they have sold, at the reduced price.
The unsold are returned at the publishers expense and eventually pulped, who loses out? the poor old author!!
In recent years this practice had meant we have lost Ottakars, swallowed up by Waterstones, and Borders, along with too many independents to count.
The harder the independent publishing world push to get their books into the public veiw, the more 'the establishment' close ranks to try to stop the flood of books published by new technology.
I actually meet, and have got to know several famous and successful mainstream authors as I attend several book festivals. They are all pretty fed up, not only by being 'ripped off' but by the lack of control. A frequently heard complaint is 'I tried to write something completely different and was told no way! more of the same'.
Most 'mainstream' books are edited to a pattern, usually removing a lot of the emotion, check out some of the other threads on Goodreads, and elsewhere, a frequent complaint is how 'samey' prolific authors work becomes, there is your reason.
In case you think I am making things sound worse than they are then check this out, in 2009 77MILLION books were returned unsold to U.K. publishers for pulping, that is roughly 6 times total sales!! and the sales included P.O.D titles.
The latest manifestation of this crisis can be seen in 'pound land' shops, hard backs, cover price often over £20 for a pound!! 'best selling' paper backs, 2 for a pound. This might seem good for readers but it is certain to dry up the supply of new good books, ones worth reading from the conventional sources.
If you like reading, at least good new stuff start looking to the indies, they might cost a little more, not much more, but there are some crackers out there, I challange you to find a better book than 'CLAN' by David Elliot in it's genre, available in print, E-book or audio. He is not with my publisher, and I have only met him briefly once, but 'CLAN' illustrates my point perfectly.
Sorry this is so long.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]
That was a really intresting post, Paul.

Here's some useless information I know from personal experience and from Penn n' Teller's Bullshit. eBoooks, will not save trees. if anything they are worse on the environment. Paperpulp comes from slash pine, a fast growing junk tree that paper companies plant and then clear cut specifically for that purpose; not from hardwood forests. (They pay a nickle a tree; i could do 3 to 5k a day, and now have a bad back to prove it!) So, if we cut back on the use of paper,demand is less, which means the paper companies won't replant after clear cutting. Therefore, you're not saving a forest, you're actually keeping one from being planted -- junk forest, but still...
Here's another bit of useless information. The word is spelled 'eBook' according to Chicago.
Maybe I should go on Jeopardy, huh?
j (lower case 'j' pls)

I've had my time on a chain saw too, and my back was already .uc.e. from a parachute jump which didn't go according to plan!
I have got a bit smarter as I have got older, honest!
I take your point on eBooks, there are all sorts of wierd side effects of the electronic revolution which are not obvious at the first glance, the only certain thing is we cannot go on as we are.
I was asked to go to a 'country fair' today, I heard about the daftest thing I have ever heard.
A woman [blue hair:] driving the biggest 4X4 BMW I have ever seen, stopped in the gate way to the car park, a level grass field, she refused to go any further incase she got the wheels dirty! I give up!!, I really do.
all the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]

It's good you got a bit smarter,Geez, cause at the rate you were goin' the smart money wasn't on you getting older.
you're right bout no mo biz as usual. the writers are picking up on it, fast. now, if only the publishers would get their heads out of their collective ass.
We're in the age of cyber communication and submission guidelines are still using pony express mentality.
query letters for example. what a joke. Send form query, get back form reject. Who actually reads that shit? Maybe agents with entirely too much time on their hands.
There is one publisher I found that has his head on straight. check out his submission guidelines; what a trip: "send full mss, I'll read and give written reply in a week or two. incl synopsis but don't spend more that ten minutes on it." LMAO Love 'em! Elderberry Press Inc (goggle it) even if you don't submit, read what he has to say about publishing writers agents you.
great example of no mo biz as usual. internet, eBook, cyber space, have made if possible for anyone to get published. Which is another problem.


They look alright, I had actually heard of them, nothing bad I hasten to add.
I use 'Authors on Line', this was the first company over here to commercially use P.O.D. and produce the first commercial ebook. I think they are the best bet, in most cases, at least they are an honest outfit, which is rare today. The one problem they haven't cracked yet is for their authors books to get the sales they deserve, but they are trying!
I just wish I knew what the answer is, no doubt the answer is hiding out there is the vastness of cyber space. I know it is all about getting 'your' book in front of as many potential readers as possible. How the h.... do we do that without becoming a 'spammer'?
All the best, Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]

"I like the feel of a real booooook..." is starting to sound like a broken record. LOL
I remember when people said the same thing about Guttenburg and his dumb press. "I like the feel of an 80lb illustrated manuscript, hand-scribed on unbound parchment by Byzantine mooooonks." Right, Geez? Seems like yesterday, eh?
j guevara

Lol
It seems ridiculous to me to value a book's smell/feel/colorful cover more than its content. When eBooks will become really popular you'll be able to access almost any book in the world in a matter of minutes, no more searching frenetically through bookstores, no more waiting for it to be shipped, no more shipping fees, isn't it absolutely amazing? You'll be able to read books published in France on the day they come out or subscribe to newspapers from South Africa. But noooo, you give up all those wonderful possibilities because paper smells nice. :/

Instant gratification isn't everything either, though. My life is busy and stressful enough. Having to slow down for a couple hours at the library or in a bookstore looking for books when I'm not at work is sometimes the best medicine. I spend all day on a computer; sometimes it's nice to be able to unplug.

Sometimes I spend two hours in a bookstore, decide on a book I'm really excited about...and come home and order it on the Kindle.
Books will never die, but I think it's possible - not inevitable - that physical books will become more of a niche market.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up ordering a physical copy of Civilization: A New History of the Western World, which I'm almost done with on Kindle, because I like it and want to be able to easily flip through it in the future. But that's more a reflection of a) e-readers being new and not entirely perfect yet and b) me being a big dork.

Ohh. Isn't reading the best medicine?

The shopping/searching builds anticipation which then makes the sitting-down-and-reading part so much more enjoyable. It's like that "good" sort of tension.


The last two trips I took, I ended up going through 3-4 books. Scenario: finished a book I was already reading while on the plane, started a new one...while at vacation site finished book started on plane, and then +1 or 2 other books. Started a new one, finished it halfway on trip back home in flight. And it was all carried "very lightly" in my purse.
Different strokes for different folks...I'd like to think all avid readers would support their fellow readers' choice of format.
Isn't it most important that we can discuss the quality of a book and not bicker about what format we read it in.

