2015 - October - Theme Read - Aspects of the Third Reich

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

This month's theme read is any book or books that cover any aspect of the Third Reich that you find of interest.

[Jennifer]

Anyone have a suggestion?

[Feliks]

I was very much confused for a while about where to nominate titles. There was an 'announcement of the theme read thread' but it was immediately locked.

Is this the thread to suggest books?

[Jennifer]

No, I believe you can choose any book concerning Third Reich but I'm just asking for suggestions of a good book.

[Feliks]

You mean for your personal reading enjoyment?

Well I could confidently cite the following: Leni: The Life and Work of Leni Riefenstahl

[Jennifer]

Yes. I'm very interested in learning abt the Civil War and WWII.

[Jennifer]

Yes. I'm very interested in learning abt the Civil War and WWII.

[Feliks]

That so? Well for the American Civil War I would recommend The Killer Angels (short read, Pulitzer prize winner) or Andersonville (long read, also Pulitzer winner).

For WWII my favorite novel is probably...Bomber

[Feliks]

For the group theme read, I have been scratching-my-head and the only feasible topic I can come up with is the management of occupied countries under Nazi forces. How was it organized? What was life like? Pretty trite, I know. Other than this...maybe just...the Cicero escapade?

[Jennifer]

Thank you!! Maybe I can find them on sale!!!

[Feliks]

You're welcome. They are my top picks. (I believe 'Killer Angels' is the top pick for probably any Civil War fan).

All I can say is that they all astounded me; and I'd like to think that is tough to do. 'Andersonville' is so good you want to do cartwheels around the room; 'Bomber' is haunting, vivid, shocking, frightening. Nightmarish.

Good luck.

[Howard]

While Killer Angels was a well researched and very good book, it was still "historical fiction" and anyone who wants to learn about the Civil War should be advised of that. By the way, Civil War is a misnomer for that conflict. A Civil War is a battle for control of the government. That is why the conflict in the United States from 1861 to 1865 is more properly referred to as "The War of the Rebellion."

[Jennifer]

Thank you both for your information!!! I love to learn about all of this wonderful info.

[Feliks]

I've been trying to get a hold of the The Last Card (Richard Sorge story) but can't find a good copy.

That reminds me, perhaps one of the novels by Hans Hellmut Kirst might do well for a group read? Its inside dope from one of Hitler's own. Turned out to be a good guy and an excellent novelist. One of his works is a novel about life in German officer training camp.

p.s. Howard, I actually think 'War of the Rebellion' is much less clear than 'Civil War'. 'Civil War' --with capital letters-- means only one thing to any American. 'War of the Rebellion'--well, which rebellion? History has hundreds of rebellions. Even 'War between the States' is clearer than 'War of the Rebellion', wouldn't you say? Either of these though, are a *mouthful*.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Finally got to my hotel in Istanbul and have wifi so I can respond a bit. This theme read can be on any book or books that take your fancy as long as they cover aspects of the Third Reich, military or civilian.

[Feliks]

Okay, I nominate either of two Hans Kirst novels:

'The Wolves'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

or

'Officer Factory'
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

I think either of these would be fascinating. Insider account!

[Feliks]

p.s. the most fun thing in Istanbul (for me) was visiting the shadowy pillars of the Hagia Sofia mosque where Red Grant killed a minor operative thwarting his scheme to trap James Bond...and the fabulous underground Roman reservoir where Kareem Bey rows Sean Connery over to below the Russkie Embassy!

Remember Rick--check behind paintings and lampshades for bugs in your room! And brush your teeth with Scotch. Breakfast: yogurt..coffee..figs!

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

All sounds good to me Feliks :)

[Howard]

I agree that most people here "get it" when they read The Civil War in caps. War Between the States is even more specific and clear. I refer only to strict definitions of words, and remind us of the importance of meanings. If you read my recounting of Admiral Crowe's remarks on words in another thread, that also proved illustrative.

[Dj]

To be totally fair, the US has had two Civil Wars. The ACW, and the one we call the Revolution. Both messy affairs.

[Howard]

The Revolutionary War meaning our break with England is technically correct and that being said may contribute to the naming of our second (but internal) "revolutionary" war as something using a word other than revolution to clarify the distinction. Civil War works, even if technically not correct. For the same reason our break from England was NOT a civil war as we were not fighting to take over the government in London, and besides, the English had their own Civil War of course.

[Dj]

Howard wrote: "The Revolutionary War meaning our break with England is technically correct and that being said may contribute to the naming of our second (but internal) "revolutionary" war as something using a wo..."


I am fairly certain that the English have had more than one.

For Civil War, I usually work with the definition of all sides are from the same political grouping, but also somewhat racially homogeneous. So the Revolutionary War would count, but the revolt in Mexico against the French would not. Also most of the uprisings in Africa wouldn't count. At least when they are against Colonial Powers.

[Feliks]

Howard wrote: "I refer only to strict definitions of words, and remind us of the importance of meanings. ..."

Yes, but people aren't computers. Common, vernacular, everyday parlance should be free to hold sway in informal situations, unless a misnomer is actually causing a problem.. that's how I feel about it..

[Lilo]

How about "Hitler: The Memoir of the Nazi Insider Who Turned Against the Fuhrer"? Highly recommended. Here is the link to my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Sweetwilliam]

I need to recommend Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer. I read this about 30 years ago. It was a great book. I should read it again.

[Colin]

I knew Leni Riefenstahl pretty well, and her comments regarding her "lost weekend" with Hans-Joachim Marseille were interesting. Her story about Goebbels chasing her around the large meeting table in amorous pursuit, with his clubbed foot was also a funny event. So many stories.

Leni said to me in 1985, "If I were a few years younger I would make you smile in the morning." Well, that sort of told me everything. I last saw her in 2001 I believe.

[Feliks]

Oh aye? Colin, what you think about Steven Bach's book? Did you like it or no? Bach was a former studio exec at UA

[Jennifer]

Does anyone swap books?

[Colin]

I have not read Bach's book unfortunately, having written a dozen books and lecturing over the last decade. I should get it. See my website at www.lewisheatonbooks.com where I posted a lot of photos at the Hans-Joachim Marseille and Star of Africa pages. Marseille's sexual conquests are on there!

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Jennifer wrote: "Does anyone swap books?"

I'm not sure if people do in the group Jennifer, but no worries in asking people (say on the Break-out area thread), especially as many members live in the US like you :)

[Feliks]

Hans-Joachim Marseille probably did a lot of swapping..Colin, whaddya say there buddy?

[Feliks]

One wonders how a German air ace came by that unusual surname in the first place..'Marseille'? Anyone else curious?

[Howard]

Eisenhower?

[Feliks]

aha! You're a card..

[Howard]

Huntzinger was a French Army General with a German name.
Eisenhower was an American General with a German name. etc

[Dimitri]

Leaving aside the Holocaust and in the certainty that Ian Kershaw's biography of Hitler and Richard J. Evans' trilogy on the Reich have been discussed to death in this group, I can contribute:
The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy byAdam Tooze
or
The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-45

[Chin Joo]

I am reading The Order of the Death's Head: The Story of Hitler's SS. I'm only into the third chapter but it's a good book.

At last I'm clearer about the difference between the SA, SD, and SS.

[Colin]

Do not forget the that it was broken down even farther with Himmler on top:

Waffen SS (Sepp Dietrich/Paul Hausser)
Allgemeine SS (Karl Wolff/Siegfried Westphal)
SA (Ernst Roehm-replaced by several over time, Gerhard Klopfer)
SD (Reinhard Heydrich)
Gestapo (Heinrich Muller)

I interviewed Klopfer (last living member of the Wannsee Conference), Wolff, and Westphal among others.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Howard wrote: "Huntzinger was a French Army General with a German name.
Eisenhower was an American General with a German name. etc"

Great name dropping - there's a new thread here gents, and to chip in: Richard Meinertzhagen was British soldier and served with British intelligence during WWI.

[Howard]

My mother swore she heard of a British citizen named Messerschmitt who changed his name to Spitfire.

[Feliks]

Aye, I'm a fan of that Meinertzhagen sod. Ruthless devil. One of Ian Fleming's varied 'assortment of cutthroats' who influenced the creation of the Bond character.

[Colin]

My book, Four War Boer has Pieter Krueler meeting Meinhertzhagen when he captured him at the Battle of Tanga in East Africa. Later they became friends after WW II.

[Lilo]

Has anyone heard of the classic satire "It Can't Happen Here", by Sinclair Lewis? This book was written in 1936.

I am presently reading this book. Here is the link to my preliminary review, which I keep updating as I read on:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I am not quite sure whether or not this book fits into the October Theme Read, but it is definitely a MUST-READ.

[Feliks]

Excellent pick. Yes, I know of it. Been wanting to make a spot for it in my reading program for a while now. Said to still be cogent and fresh.

[Manray9]

Lilo wrote: "Has anyone heard of the classic satire "It Can't Happen Here", by Sinclair Lewis? This book was written in 1936.

I am presently reading this book. Here is the link to my preliminary review, which..."

Lilo: I read It Can't Happen Here about 45 years ago. Your post reminded of it.

[Lilo]

Feliks wrote: "Excellent pick. Yes, I know of it. Been wanting to make a spot for it in my reading program for a while now. Said to still be cogent and fresh."

It surely still is cogent and fresh.

[Lilo]

Manray9 wrote: "Lilo wrote: "Has anyone heard of the classic satire "It Can't Happen Here", by Sinclair Lewis? This book was written in 1936.

I am presently reading this book. Here is the link to my preliminary ..."

You might want to reread it, Manray9. It reminds me so much of ... --well, you decide.

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

Reading about German Airborne units in Heaven & Hell: The War Diary of a German Paratrooper

Ground level (only one combat jump so far - Crete) view of the war in multiple theaters. If not for the names, ranks and weapons, this could be the tale of any elite military airborne unit--plenty of gung-ho, hard fighting, hard drinking, hi-jinx. Some maps (yay) but not enough, especially on Eastern Front episodes. Lots of great pictures of his mates and areas of operation.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

An excellent choice Mike and I will be keen to hear further thoughts on the book as I am sad to say, yet again, that I have an un-read copy sitting in my library.

I have just come back from my afternoon coffee and checked my PO box on the way back and picked up this new release which may end up as my theme book:

The German War: A Nation Under Arms by Nicholas Stargardt

[Dimitri]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "An excellent choice Mike and I will be keen to hear further thoughts on the book as I am sad to say, yet again, that I have an un-read copy sitting in my library.

I have just come back from my aft..."

Okay, I'll take The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy then.