Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction discussion
This topic is about
Raiders from the North
Monthly Group Reads
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APRIL 2014 (Group Read 2): Raiders from the North by Alex Rutherford
Hmm. I might leave this one on my tbr then. Even though I can't get it from my library, maybe I will stumble on a used copy somewhere one day.
1 chapter in, and I am liking it tentatively.
I am 8 chapter in I think. It's an audiobook and they don't always say when the chapter changes. I am not liking it that much. It's not dreadful but I feel that I'm being talked to instead of being immersed into a fascinating culture.
I am tired of the.....hold on I need to find the right term......exposition. There seems to be a whole lot of Babur explaining things to himself instead of actual storyline. Too much info dump and not enough incorporation into the story for me.
It also does not help that I have no connection with Babur. I don't feel anything for him but apathy.
I want to be transported and it's not happening.
Happened to have this sitting in my TBR pile after picking up a copy at an op shop, soooo, count me in.
It's not too bad. A little light and fluffy so far.
After some of the comments, I'm wondering if I should give it back to Audible and get something else more worthy of my $.
How far are you Margaret??
Did you try past chapter 1 Nancy? I thought you were enjoying it?
When Margaret finishes....she is posting me her copy! :DSo I will be able to join in the discussion this month after all.
I know. Quite an unexpected treat.
It's good you get to read it. I wanna knwo what you think of it and see if this is another we agree on or not. :)You will be happy to know that he's only a pre-teen for a quarter of the book!
I liked the detail, although I would have stopped the story about ¾ of the way through (if I were making it up—this is the downside of writing about historical figures: they don't neatly follow a script). My review is here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show....I can't comment on how plausible it is for Babur to attack men twice his age. That may indeed be modern artistic license. But I would note that in his time, a boy became a man at 15, and 30 was already relatively old for a warrior. Babur himself died at 47, or thereabouts, and he had probably begun his military training at 5. So it may be less implausible than it appears from our perspective. People could live into their 80s, then as now, but it was far less common.
Dawn wrote: "How far are you Margaret??"I'm about a third of the way through. Babur has just managed to loose both his thrones.
C.P. wrote: "I liked the detail, although I would have stopped the story about ¾ of the way through (if I were making it up—this is the downside of writing about historical figures: they don't neatly follow a s..."Shall check out your review once I have read the book.
Sounds feasible to me. I mean, there were 15 year old kids(lying about age) in WW1 and all the wars before that. I guess I will have to wait until I read it to see how the author dealt with a child killing mature warriors in a plausible way.
Dawn wrote: "It's good you get to read it. I wanna knwo what you think of it and see if this is another we agree on or not. :)You will be happy to know that he's only a pre-teen for a quarter of the book!"
err.i forgot that there would probably be child characters in this one. I am glad to hear that his child life is not dragged out to take up large portions of the book.
He is a child at first, but he doesn't really act like a child—except to take advice from men (and women) older and wiser than himself. No teenage angst that I remember, so you are safe. ;-)
Terri wrote: "Dawn wrote: "It's good you get to read it. I wanna knwo what you think of it and see if this is another we agree on or not. :)You will be happy to know that he's only a pre-teen for a quarter of ..."
You don't really notice the fact he's a child, or rather, an adolescent, at the beginning.
C.P. wrote: "I can't comment on how plausible it is for Babur to attack men twice his age. That may indeed be modern artistic license. But I would note that in his time, a boy became a man at 15, and 30 was already relatively old for a warrior. Babur himself died at 47, or thereabouts, and he had probably begun his military training at 5. So it may be less implausible than it appears from our perspective. People could live into their 80s, then as now, but it was far less common. "Wasn't Joan of Arc around that age too?
Terri: I can send You my copy right away on a mail. Is there a way to do It on a mail?
I am now on the 68% mark. And You are right: too much information, too much intimate thoughts but this is not a bad book I am undecided between 3 and 4 stars. The rest of the book will tell me that.
I really noticed that he's just a kid. He may be doing adult things but he's definitely only a teenager.
C.P. wrote: "He is a child at first, but he doesn't really act like a child—except to take advice from men (and women) older and wiser than himself. No teenage angst that I remember, so you are safe. ;-)"Brilliant. that makes me happy. :)
Carlos wrote: "Terri: I can send You my copy right away on a mail. Is there a way to do It on a mail?"Do you mean ebook? Thanks for the offer, my dear friend, but I am a paper only reader. :)
Sceadugenga wrote: "...our little "Babur-Rambo" here not only keeps it together while scaling, running, dodging, swinging, hacking but also manages to take charge of the operation spouting orders and demonstrating a control that only a veteran NCO with years of experience would have on the battlefield."Agreed, I can believe his personal combat skills may be exemplary even at this age, but the command elements seem a little far fetched. That said, I am still enjoying the story.
I do have to mention that even though I liked the book more than some, I did find a few errors—of culture, mostly. The silliest of these is Babur swimming the Ganges. I don't know where people get the idea of Mongols frolicking in the water (Iggulden does this, too)—seems so macho, maybe? But I'm 95% sure it's a modern fantasy. All through Siberia, Central Asia, and even in Tibet today, there were major taboos against stepping naked into flowing water (and since Speedos had not yet been invented, I have to think that was the only way Babur would swim). The water spirits would retaliate for the insult done them by sending you a vile and fatal illness that only a shaman could cure—and then, only if you were lucky. True or not (and I wouldn't stake my fate on the Ganges then or now), people believed it. Fording a river or stream was acceptable, but swimming? I don't think so.I wouldn't sink the book for that alone, of course. On the whole the authors do a pretty good job. But since people here like accuracy, I thought I'd mention it.
The other thing is that even though it's tempting to paint Babur as an uneducated hill-dwelling chieftain, the evidence of his diary is that he wasn't quite that unsophisticated. He talks about Persian poetry (and even includes some verses of his own). Timur, too, was a lover of literature and history as well as a guy who would cleave a dozen skulls before breakfast without turning a hair. That combination is precisely why I find them fascinating. Sure, Babur was no Shakespeare (the poetry reads as pretty primitive today), but he wasn't singing to the sheep, either. In fact, he rather looked down on his raucous and uncultured nomadic relatives. He'd have been appalled to discover that their name (Mughal) became attached to his dynasty....
Sceadugenga, your point about Babur's sangfroid on his first excursion is well taken. I quite agree.
I'm about half way through and finding it a little difficult to engage with the characters. Not sure if it's the book, or the fact the last book I read was "The Gospel of Loki" where the main character is extremely real and powerful. Barbur is looking a little wet and dull in comparison.
Sceadugenga wrote: ". I also realize i'm being tedious and pedantic so I promise I'll shut up and skulk away back under my rock to continue reading in silence ;) ;) .."Heavens no. Don't go away and do that! All viewpoints are valid around here if they are respectful to others.... and you were respectful. :-)
I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
C.P. wrote: "I do have to mention that even though I liked the book more than some, I did find a few errors—of culture, mostly. The silliest of these is Babur swimming the Ganges. I don't know where people get ..."I appreciate learning this, C.P. Good info! This is why I enjoy the group reads. To learn from other readers.
Terri wrote: "Carlos wrote: "Terri: I can send You my copy right away on a mail. Is there a way to do It on a mail?"Do you mean ebook? Thanks for the offer, my dear friend, but I am a paper only reader. :)"
Use to be that way until my iPad happened in my life. Since my honeymoon I haven't have such a great time in my life. The offer still stands for the future.
I have tried, but I can't connect with Babur. He's not realistic enough for me. The whole culture is too exotic for my taste, but I'll keep reading. The novel seems like it has been nothing but battles back and forth so far. Now Babur has begun what sounds like it will be his Baburnama.
Babur's personality was flat. The book read like a play: 'stage right--Babur enters
BABUR: We will take them by surprise. Oh no, they saw us. We have lost the elemenent of surprise.'
He was lucky in love and in his first born son. When he lost a kingdom, another would be given to him (that is an understatement). He showed his hand at the wrong times. However, near the book's end, he learned from his mistakes, and I thought, 'Finally!' He made good use of the cannon and gun powder. I want to read his diary on the chance that
his personality lurks within his own words.
Carlos wrote: " The offer still stands for the future...."
Thanks, mate. :)
Sorry guys. Maybe this is not the best book of the lot but I am almost at the end of It and I am not one least dissapointed. I'll give It 3-3.5 stars and move to the next one (second part). I'll give It to You that Babur is somehow 2 dimensional or maybe He was following the Alexander route and He was in love with Baburi (Don't know) but I have read worst in the past. Almost done with this book.
For what it's worth, Babur does seem pretty smitten with Baburi in his diary, although his daughter's memoirs suggest he loved at least one of his wives as well. A direction these authors didn't want to go?I really didn't find Babur that two-dimensional—perhaps because I was more familiar with him and his culture going in. But I am finding others' reactions to him interesting.
I finally finished chapter 6, had to fight to stay awake. Not worth it.
I didn't really like it. If fact only 2 star for me. Though it has got me intrigued about the era and culture so I will probably head for a non-fiction or two instead of the HF.
Tried to swim against the current on this one and like it (given my dislike of last month's), but in the end I failed. The MC just came across as preposterous (for all the reasons Sceadugenga, C.P. and others discussed). Beyond that, as Linda points out, the book reads like the script of a play. I applaud the effort, but in the end it just doesn't work for me. I guess I agree with Nancy: just not worth it.
Uh oh. This doesn't sound like my kind of book...oh well. I'll try it anyway.When Andrew says 'it reads like a play' I know the kind of writing he/you are talking about.
Time will tell.
Finally starting on this one. So far it is a bit hard to get into the setting.
It was a three-star read for me. Not really bad, but not fantastic either.
Margaret wrote: "It was a three-star read for me. Not really bad, but not fantastic either."My thoughts exactly Margaret, Are You going to read part II? I need some encouragement to do that.
Carlos wrote: "Margaret wrote: "It was a three-star read for me. Not really bad, but not fantastic either."My thoughts exactly Margaret, Are You going to read part II? I need some encouragement to do that."
Ah no, probably not. It wasn't a good enough read to encourage down that path.
Well, then I will not go there on my own. I am in the mood for a good Nordic Mystery. See You next month in the challenge.
It is tempting to read the next one. I like the setting. But I won't unless someone reads it and says it's seriously better than this one.
Oh bugger it. I'll bite the bullet and give #2 a go. But it's as far as I can go, as my library doesn't have #3 & #4.
Carlos wrote: "Margaret wrote: "It was a three-star read for me. Not really bad, but not fantastic either."My thoughts exactly Margaret, Are You going to read part II? I need some encouragement to do that."
If part 2 is about Babur's son, my husband has told me about Humayun's reign and I'm not impressed, so I'm probably going to skip the rest of the trilogy. If part 3 is about Akbar, that might be interesting.
Book 2 is about Humayun's reign Book 3 is Akbar
Book 4 is Jahangir
Book 5 is Shah Jahan who built the Taj Mahal
My copy has arrived. Thanks Margaret!!!!! It arrived in one piece. :DShall start tonight.
Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction
Books mentioned in this topic
Brothers At War (other topics)Genghis: Birth of an Empire (other topics)
The Baburnama: Memoirs of Babur, Prince and Emperor (other topics)
One for Sorrow (other topics)
Babur the Tiger (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Madhulika Liddle (other topics)Alex Rutherford (other topics)
Alex Rutherford (other topics)
Yes, lots. It follows The Baburnama: Memoirs of Babur, Prince and Emperor very closely in terms of characters and plot, but it does fill in the sensory detail—and does a good job. I'm about ¾ through and enjoying it very much, although I have to slow down now to tackle something else (which is why I started early).