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New York - reading schedule and discussion
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Irene
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Oct 27, 2015 12:04PM
We skip lightly through so much that I have the potential to be troubled many times. I have to admit that, if the author insists on skimming so lightly across history, than I can no longer muster the interest to be bothered by very much. These characters just are not real for me. That bit with James, Abigail and Albion needed more explanation. Why is James so opposed to Albion and Abigail that he forces the break in the relationship? I realize that the two are on separate sides of the conflict, but so is James and Abigail, James and his father. But, he seems to have no problems wit the conflict of loyalties in his family, then why with a potential in-law? I was more bothered by Charles White saving the Master's property. I realize that James is a patriot. But, John Masters represents more than loyalist leanings, he is the sign of wealth gotten on the backs of the poor like him. Why not give the family a chance to escape, but destroy this massive wealth? These Masters people seem to have a tefflon coating; nothing really bad ever seems to happen to them.
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It's getting to dramatic for me. I prefer more historical books. I will keep on being that I bought the book and that it's not a bad book just a historical work or document.
I felt the same Meg about Abigail and Albion. I keep waiting for a women to stand out. I am glad to know it will come eventually. I think sometimes his statments are so general about a character. When he talked about President Lee, he says he was a genius but then he doesn't say how. I think not a bad book either just not historically rich in detail as I thought it would be. I do think it's been about New York the Civil War has brought some talk of the South. Are Frank and Hetty falling out of love is that why he plans deliberate quarrels?
Well I am wondering how prejudice Rutherford was in writing this book. I do believe he is British and I am wondering how he gathered his information and how slanted the research was. I am wondering if London, his parallel book, has the same flaws?
It feels as if he is more interested in giving the reader historical tibbets than a rivetting story. Washington was strikingly tall. New York should have been the nation's capital had the south ot been uncomfortable with it. Taminy Hall gave poor immigrants a voice in politics. Dutch women smoked cigars. etc, etc, etc. In the reading we are doing for this week, we get the introduction of the Irish immigrants and the apparent shake down of Frank by a representative of Taminey Hall. I don't see how this furthers the story. It only seems to give another little historical item.
Well he wrote a few books on Ireland perhaps that started his interest in New York
In regards to Albion, Abigail, and James I expected more to happen but instead it was swept under the rug.
I was so angry at Frank for what he did to Hetty. When she had to beg him to never leave her again made me want to cry for her.Mary and Theodore make me nervous. I am not sure where they will end up?
The rational behind why black solider were paid compared to white was so ridiculous.
Another turn in the story for me was Hudson's death. I wondered why he just up and left his safe place?
Rebecca, I think you are ahead of schedule. If I am following the schedule correctly, Hudson has not died yet.
We should be on 495. Is everyone ok with the schedule or do we need a catch up week?
I'm on 495 as well. I needed some catch up time a couple of weeks ago but I'm good now.
That is where I am also, but I don't recall Hudson dying.
It happened during the riots and was a blink and you'll miss it moment. Very disappointing (to put it mildly) as he was from one of the main families in the book. I thought his family's story would continue, like the Master's. I don't remember if there were any other descendants from that line. I don't think so though.
I am disappointed with how the author weaves the characters he is not being factual and not great at passing time. Follet did a much better job
Mod
I am really disappointed not to learn about the Native Americans
It feels as if the author made a time line of interesting bits, then wrote in characters and family events around these. We get random things thrown in such as Leaves of Grass being contraversial, but it has nothing to do with anything else in the story. I don't think I will read anything else by this author.
I noticed that too Irene it's almost like it were the facts and events interesting to him. Before this I had wanted to read Sarum. I think not now.
I I don't think I would read anything else by him either
Mod
I have almost read this weeks. I am afraid I am going to try to finish this one up.
When I first started, I was really enjoying the book and liked how the author brought history to life through his fictional characters. I thought I'd like to read some of his other works. Now I'm just tired of the whole thing and look forward to finishing so I can move on to something else. I'm in total agreement with the other comments in this thread. My main problem is that I prefer my main characters to be people, not a city, and had hoped for more continuity.
I'm not quite halfway through this (trying to get some library books finished), but I have been enjoying it. It's been pretty much what I expected, so I haven't been disappointed so far. A little discouraging to hear so many that are disappointed in it. His books are like James Michener's to me. I read a few years ago, ( Poland was one); & enjoyed them; though maybe not my favorite type of historical fiction.
That's an interesting view point, the main character is the location. I didn't see it that way. Wow, that's why im having a difficult time with all these new characters.
That is a terrific idea viewing New York as the protagonistI just finished Tge Haj by Michener he was much more successful in his books in my opinion
It would be nice if there were like buttons for comments I like
This section focuses more on the female characters but I can't say I care for how the author presents them. Granted, traditional history is the story of men, and women were generally defined by their relationship to men, but I still don't like it. The author seems to resort to stereotypes (or do I mean archetypes?): the steadfast and forgiving wife, the gold-digger, the spinster, the kindhearted mistress...I would've liked to have seen some originality in these portrayals. I did enjoy reading about some of the female characters introduced earlier in the book, like the Dutch and Aboriginal women.
Right on Taylor I agree the women lacked orgininality for me as well. I think Ken Folett and George Martin do though.
I am not sure I see any originality in any of the characters, male or female, black or white, rich or poor.
I can't understand why the author spends so much time on people that were insignificant to the history of New York. For example who gives a darn about Donna Clipp? Then Rutherford starts dealing with Wall Street and just touches upon JP Morgan.I think he couldn't decide whether or not he wanted to write about New York's history and development or just a novel that happens to take place in New York.
Or, is he trying to point out that New York is as much about the people we never hear about as of the famous folks? I'm not exactly sure because he is inconsistent. Putting the Masters as the focal family, we are given NY's story through the rich and powerful. Even seemingly insignificant folks such as Mary turn into people who are connected to power.
But then he left out so many important people, it is annoying me!
Mod
I'm thinking that there is no way to tell this much history of New York in one novel.
That being said, he could have just picked one decade and make it a great trilogy, He needs to take lessons from Ken Follet
In the section on the garment strike, this sentence jumped out at me: "For the powerful ladies of New York...politics was a social game, to demonstrate who had the most influence". Is this based on anything, do you think, or does the author just not take women very seriously?
Mod
I am almost done with Ellis Island another storyline sandwiched in with money once again and Wall Street. More of the Masters Mary and Hetty. I am hoping to get at it again today. I spent all day yesterday. As much as I didn't want to read this over Thanksgiving I don't think I will be done. But I won't be reading it on Thanksgiving for sure.
Oh Rebecca. Your comment made me laugh. Enjoy your New York-less Thanksgiving.
Meg I was actually thinking of starting Fall of Giants for Thanksgiving.Did you finish the series and like it a lot. I loved Pillars but WWOE not so much.
I love Follet. The pillars series was incredible nothing holds a candle to that
What is your suggestion for a good chunky to start?
I did I loved it. I just thought WWOE was more of the same but I don't know.
I'm sorry to hear that New York isn't as enthralling as other Rutherford books. I felt the same about Paris (haven't read New York). I did enjoy London and The Forest, a lot. Rebecca, are you looking for a historical fiction chunkie, such as Ken Follett's books?
Some chunkies that I enjoyed that perhaps you might but that aren't as "historical" as Ken Follett's books:
- Middlemarch - possibly a perfect story
- Robertson Davies trilogies: The Deptford Trilogy and The Salterton Trilogy
- Lonesome Dove
- if you like sci-fi, The Passage and its sequel, The Twelve.
I have heard great things about Middlemarch. I do have Adam Bede and Mill on the floss but haven't read them. I think those are great suggestions. Lonesome Dove is also one I have wanted to read. Middlemarch and your summary sounds perfect for me.
I read the first two volumes in the Fall of Giants trilogy. The first was not bad. Winter of the World was disappointing. And, I have not heard anyone say that the third was any good, everyone keeps teling me it is pure fluff.
Glad to help, Rebecca. I hope you enjoy whichever book you pick up. I love chunky reads. I can really immerse myself in the story.
Chicks On Lit
Books mentioned in this topic
Middlemarch (other topics)The Deptford Trilogy (other topics)
The Salterton Trilogy: Tempest-Tost / Leaven of Malice / A Mixture of Frailties (other topics)
Lonesome Dove (other topics)
The Passage (other topics)
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