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message 51:
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Charles
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Mar 29, 2014 02:28PM
I agree that getting book reviews is not easy, even if the person has read it -- or is reading it. The Writer's Freelance Report shows how to get reviewers that we pay to provide a review -- but paying doesn't guarantee a good review. We are not paying a bribe. As you know from newspaper reviews of films, many of them as questionable at best. They are not all critics but merely reviewers expressing a personal opinion. I try to write positive reviews for films sold on Amazon, but I can't do that for all. Some of those reviews, however, read as if they were provided by people who had something to do with the original film itself.
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I find no problem with anonymous reviews. Or reviews in general whether they are good or bad. My only concern about anonymous reviewers is it allows one person to have several accounts and leave multiple reviews for one persons product. And yes I have seen people shopping out the fact that they have 5 amazon accounts and will leave product reviews from each account.
Jessa wrote: " However I wouldn't go so far as to automatically equate an author's choice to use a pseudonym to a poster's choice to be anonymous in order solely to post purposefully derisive and unconstructive star-ratings and reviews..."I don't believe anybody is saying that. What most have said is there are many, many, many valid reasons book buyers choose to post anonymously. Just as there are many valid reasons for authors to use pseudonyms. BUT, if you support throwing ALL anonymous activity under the bus [as this petition does] based on the actions of a negative minority, then stands to reason author anonymity needs to be included. Only fair, innit?
Well, to escalate things a bit. The Horror Writer's Association has taken the petition that was going around, and worked it into an open letter. http://horror.org/?p=6219
It really doesn't bother me as either a reader or a writer if someone gives their real name on a review. I don't if I am honest, although mine is easy to work out.As has been said some people don't want to give their identity for various reasons, and that is fine. That is their choice. Reviews are generally aimed at other readers anyway and most readers can see the silly ones (negative and positive). Many readers only look at a few anyway.
Bad reviews happen, move on, keep writing and don't respond. If it truly is a snarky personal review and not simply someone not liking your book then report it. Give readers some credit, they can spot a troll as well.
People review for all sorts of reasons and I'd bet if you asked 100 people why you'd get 100 different answers. If someone wants to review as REVIEWER101 then let them.
Not sure the HWA letter will accomplish what it ask for with Amazon.Not even sure I agree with the language of the letter as presented...
I think if Amazon made people give their real names a lot less people would review.
I don't agree with all these letter and petitions, but I find them ludicrous. All these authors and organizations are trying to make demands of Amazon while they have nothing on the table to bargain with. What are they going to do? Hurt themselves by pulling their books from the largest online market currently on the web? I don't think so. It's a lot of fuss and furor that will only hurt authors more in the long run.
Miss M wrote: "Jessa wrote: " However I wouldn't go so far as to automatically equate an author's choice to use a pseudonym to a poster's choice to be anonymous in order solely to post purposefully derisive and u..."As afore-stated, I'm not backing nor have I signed the petition. (I stated my views on the free speech element in my previous posts.) My feelings on the matter are somewhat akin to the "Seinfeld" episode (The Fire), where Elaine's coworker Toby, I believe her name was, showed up at Jerry's show and began heckling him.
And I do think that perhaps if people were to forced provide let's say a first initial or last initial and/or a first or last name, those reviews and ratings that are the equivalent of a provocative 'heckle' might shrink in number. It's not about cutting down on negative reviews as an author though, at least not for me - and I don't think any author/writer who believes in the utility of a genuinely critical review, as I happen to, would seek to stymie them. It's about encouraging reviews that sincerely speak to the work. But I get it, when putting yourself out there, esp on the Net, you're not always going to receive constructive commentary. Does not mean we as writer/authors don't have the right to discuss our frustrations with this side of the coin, right?
Jessa wrote: "Miss M wrote: "Jessa wrote: " However I wouldn't go so far as to automatically equate an author's choice to use a pseudonym to a poster's choice to be anonymous in order solely to post purposefully..."Here's the thing, Jessa. The people you are talking about, the people who "heckle" or troll will find a way to do it. People who provide honest reviews, but don't want to provide their personal information, will simply stop reviewing. Many are pulling reviews from Amazon and GR over this mess. And, it isn't just negative reviews. They are pulling positive reviews as well.
There is a very real problem right now. Reviewers are getting attacked at an alarming rate. What some of these authors need to understand is that customers are providing a voluntary service. They don't owe them anything. If you begin telling them they must give up any type of privacy, just to voluntarily review your work, they will stop. They don't have a financial investment in the product, so what is the incentive?
Reyna's Mom"I agree, you're never going to get around those sorts of comments. And I was not aware of there being a serious issue with online reviewers being attacked.
Jessa wrote: "Reyna's Mom"I agree, you're never going to get around those sorts of comments. And I was not aware of there being a serious issue with online reviewers being attacked."
It's a big issue like the GOP consider's voter fraud a big issue. (ie, the reality of it is less than 2%)
Linda wrote: "Most authors don't go into meltdown over a mean, snarky, even vicious review, whether the reviewer is anonymous or not. The handful who do aren't bringing in enough sales to make a difference to Amazon. ..."In all honesty you are right Most authors don't go into meltdown. I could care less either ways because i have seen bad review boost sales just as much as good reviews do. But don't fool yourself into thinking you matter to amazon. Unless you are consistently selling 1000 books a month you are not even on their radar as important.
Shaun wrote: "I don't agree with all these letter and petitions, but I find them ludicrous. All these authors and organizations are trying to make demands of Amazon while they have nothing on the table to bargain with. What are they going to do? Hurt themselves by pulling their books from the largest online market currently on the web? I don't think so. It's a lot of fuss and furor that will only hurt authors more in the long run. ..."
You are exactly right. That is part of the reason the last petition I saw "About not letting buyers return an ebook after owning it for 7 days" Most likely ended up in Amazons round file. No matter how you look at it Amazon makes the rules and gets paid no matter what the writers are the golden goose. Why would they change policy just because some 10,000 Indie authors got butt hurt when there are thousands entering the market.
I see that argument about returns on the KDP forums all the time. Personally I am fine about it. Yes there are a small percentage who game the system but most returns are people buying in error, believing there is a problem, or possibly thinking they got something they didn't. Unless an author is getting massive returns every month then just live with it. Amazon monitor returns anyway. Sorry OT but as it was mentioned I thought I'd toss my penny in.
I am a reader of reviews. I read reviews before I buy books and just about anything else--sometimes even new grocery items I see advertised. I love learning how others have used things and their comments.That being said, if you have read a lot of reviews, it becomes quite obvious when someone is reviewing something they have not used and even more obvious that bad reviews are often just the person venting to let off steam when the real source of their anger, frustration, rage, irritation, or other poor feeling emotion is about their personal emotional state and not the product they are writing about.
I'll give you an example. I have trained myself to feel good so if I read something I don't like, #1 I am probably not going to focus on it long enough to write a review. If I should do so, my approach would be something like, "Being grateful reviewers write reviews so I can avoid more products like this."
Someone who was in an angry emotional state might express anger that their time was wasted reading something they did not enjoy (they might use more colorful language). OK, so the book was not to their taste. That's fine. But the anger is not about the book, it is about their chronic or current emotional state. If the comment was, in fact, about time wasted, you could know that the person feels time pressure in their life and is easy to anger (Don't date this person.) But those emotions are not about the book.
Let's up the ante. Let's say the book is almost the same as a book the person has been writing for years. They could be angry that someone else published it first or they could see it as a growing interest (by the public) in that topic. They could see it as a way to see how someone else did it and improve on it. They could appreciate the unique perspective they bring to the topic. Or they could feel all their work had been wasted because someone else beat them to it. There are millions of perspectives that can be accurately taken on any given set of circumstances--the perspective a person takes is far more about them than about the circumstances. (I won't say the perspective the person chooses because most don't even know they can consciously choose a better-feeling perspective, much less actually do it.)
When I read reviews, anonymous reviews receive far less weight in my mind. They only receive weight if the actual content seems to be without a hidden agenda--including being paid to write reviews.
I actually object more to the reviewers who only post one or two reviews and both are high ratings--it makes me think they might be paid reviewers. A few of these are no big deal but I have been looking for a beauty product and have been amazed at dozens of reviews like that for each product in that marketplace. I'd rather they were anonymous because I can just discount their value. With names like Ida, Susie, Beth, Mia, etc. I have to follow a link to see how many reviews they've written (and the ratings) to try to judge their veracity.
Many of my own reviews are high but that is a function of two things. 1) I read reviews before purchasing so the chances of a good experience increase, and 2)I simply don't tend to focus on the negative so I don't think about the stuff I did not like long enough to think about writing a review.
Jeanine wrote: "I am a reader of reviews. I read reviews before I buy books and just about anything else--sometimes even new grocery items I see advertised. I love learning how others have used things and their co..."Please stop. The idea that you can judge a persons 'emotional state' from a book review is not only ridiculous, it's arrogant and presumptuous.
Sorry to break the bad news to you, but in most cases when people write a negative review about a book it is just about the book. Not some outside force they're angry with.
Sure, there are the competing author reviews and the friends and family, but most readers are discerning enough to spot something that seems off and emotionally stable enough to ignore it.
Most negative reviews are written by people who get annoyed, frustrated or even occasionally angry about a turn of events in a beloved series or because they spent their weekly book allowance on an unreadable piece of garbage that had only glowing reviews, dare I say, reviews that didn't focus on the negative. Or they were offended by the content or hated the MC's, etc. etc.
That's perfectly reasonable and valuable and exactly what reviews are supposed to be. And a real name badge (that is quite possibly not even their real name) or a pseudonym (which is what reviews on Amazon are. NOT anonymous) doesn't change the content of the review.
Find reviews that are helpful to you (general you) and ignore the rest. If you feel a review is breaking the TOS? Report it to Amazon. They are aware of who is behind the account and if it breaks the rules, they'll remove it.
There is no legitimate reason for reviewers/customers (of any product) on Amazon, a website that also holds their credit card numbers, home addresses and phone numbers and often that of friends and family, to be forced into displaying their real names so a billion strangers can know who they are and do God knows what with that info. Especially for the reasons being proposed.
We should put ourselves and others at risk so that random strangers will give our unpaid costumer reviews more credit or so a sensitive author who feels 'abused' by our criticism can find out who we are, where we live, work, eat, go to school? Um, no.
I just love how people assume Anonymity provides protection. Anonymous or not there is always a way to track you down.
Nick wrote: "Well said Tina..."Thanks, Nick.
Linda wrote: "@Tina:
I ♥ you.
(And thank you for poking around in my head this afternoon, since I didn't have time to!)"
♥ you, too.
And I hope you don't mind, but I cleaned up a little while I was poking around. It was a kinda dusty.
*runs and hides*
A.W. wrote: "Why should people have to reveal their true identities? There are a number of authors who like to pursue, bully and harass people who leave reviews that upset their delicate feelings. For those aut..."
I agree entirely, I myself am getting harassed because I didn't find a book I read believable.
I agree entirely, I myself am getting harassed because I didn't find a book I read believable.
@Kit - Harassment will happen whether your name shows as real or phony - they usually harass right there on the review? If you are being accosted otherwise - report it to Amazon immediately. That's called stalking once they take it to a higher level by going off the site.
Ah...the zombie threads. With deleted posts from users no longer here.I rather liked that petition myself. Because within the day it was all over the blogosphere how it was timed to create pr during a book launch and was started by an editor. An editor posting 5-star reviews for anyone paying for the editing services on amazon.com without disclosing that they were paid or that they had a material connection to the success/failure of the book in violaton of federal law even amazon.com was subject to.
And the comments on the petition hilariously just showed how badly the supporters actually wrote (half of them could not spell "bullied" -- at first glance at the screenshots going around back then I was startled and trying to figure out why my friend were talking about bulls or what ranch terminology "bulled" meant). Quite public comments on the petition demanding email addresses, shipping addresses, phone numbers, employer info, gift addresses, offering "bounties" to anyone with information on certain reviewers ... helluva petition if you read through the comments--and clearly the last morons you'd want getting that info.
And endless whines about how "...only wanted to tell the reviewer ..." -- sheesh, if you only wanted to tell a reviewer something why not tell it publicly in the comments? Unlike goodreads, amazon doesn't let reviewers moderate the comments so your public comment would stay there for anyone reading the review to see (which cause them to not believe the reviewer, be suspicious of the review, or even downvote it for ya...)
Yup, what a fun petition that was. Try to force a retail site to give out identity theft information to random internet strangers uploading a file to amazon for sale as a published book or even random authors who really do upload books for sale/download. Nevermind any pesky privacy laws.
I always imagined if amazon did cave in to the petition just how many customers would start removing their iclick settings and credit cards -- rendering kindle devices not very useful for immediately buying next book since no iclick settings ... and how many other retail sites would have publicity campaigns touting how what lengths they go to to protect customer privacy.
I have been torn apart over my review, both here and on Amazon. On Amazon I changed my review, (my bank details are on there) do you recommend me backing down, and removing my experience with that particular book? I have left unfavourable reviews for other books that I didn't connect with but the Authors seem to grasp that not everyone will agree with their works, fiction or not. Surely if you put yourself out there via a consumable product, you must expect both positive and negative reactions? I am not a writer, so I don't really know what they expect. I have never experienced a bitter response on here before, so am a little miffed.
kit wrote: "I have been torn apart over my review, both here and on Amazon. On Amazon I changed my review, (my bank details are on there) do you recommend me backing down, and removing my experience with that ..."I am an author, so naturally I think that all negative reviews are the work of demonic forces, but if your review was given with honest intent and after actually reading the book, then you have nothing to feel sorry about and you should leave it up.
V.W. wrote: "kit wrote: "I have been torn apart over my review, both here and on Amazon. On Amazon I changed my review, (my bank details are on there) do you recommend me backing down, and removing my experienc..."
Thank you V.W. I have nothing against the Author or her writing style, I just didn't feel that the traumatic life events that the blurb describes were all that bad. I respect that they may be to her, but I'm just giving my opinion, the way I perceived it. I have given many 1-5 star reviews over the years. Some of them purely because I loved the story or writing style, some because I didn't connect or like the subject matter. I have never had my reviews reviewed before, so I was a bit confused. When I looked at the 2 people responsible and saw that they both joined this month, and have no other reviews I must admit that I believe even more now that the contents of the book are born of bitterness at what the writer deems an awful childhood. I suspect that these profiles are either created by the author, or by friends of theirs.
Thank you V.W. I have nothing against the Author or her writing style, I just didn't feel that the traumatic life events that the blurb describes were all that bad. I respect that they may be to her, but I'm just giving my opinion, the way I perceived it. I have given many 1-5 star reviews over the years. Some of them purely because I loved the story or writing style, some because I didn't connect or like the subject matter. I have never had my reviews reviewed before, so I was a bit confused. When I looked at the 2 people responsible and saw that they both joined this month, and have no other reviews I must admit that I believe even more now that the contents of the book are born of bitterness at what the writer deems an awful childhood. I suspect that these profiles are either created by the author, or by friends of theirs.
D.A.—just a reader wrote: "Ah...the zombie threads. With deleted posts from users no longer here.I rather liked that petition myself. Because within the day it was all over the blogosphere how it was timed to create pr d..."
The comments were something. I like the one from one author signing on claiming she'd been bullied on a Amazon review. I found it, and it was a tad too directed towards the author. Reported it, but last I looked it is still there.
Here's the funny part. That author who signed the real name petition to reviews on Amazon under an anonymous profile. Reviews in her own genre, often for authors she friendly with. Rarely is a verified purchase spotted. Yet none of this is disclosed in her always positive four and five star reviews.
kit wrote: "V.W. wrote: "kit wrote: "I have been torn apart over my review, both here and on Amazon. On Amazon I changed my review, (my bank details are on there) do you recommend me backing down, and removing..."I'm sorry you're getting flak over your review, kit. And also disappointed to hear you were pushed into removing and altering them. It's unfair and more importantly, it's against the rules of the site. At least here on GRs.
If the author is commenting on your review, or using fake accounts to do so, you should report it to GRs CS. You may only suspect the accts are socks but GRs will be able to tell for sure and they'll handle it.
You can either use the flag button on the comments or contact them directly here.
Good luck to you and keep reviewing honestly. Your fellow readers, the people reviews are meant for, appreciate it. :)
Misfit wrote: "D.A.—just a reader wrote: "Ah...the zombie threads. With deleted posts from users no longer here.I rather liked that petition myself. Because within the day it was all over the blogosphere how ..."
IIRC, weren't
I also think it was absolutely hysterical and par for the course, unfortunately, how many signatories admitted to not only using pseudonyms to sign the petition, but recommend others did as well. And I even think a few bragged about setting up more than one acct in order to sign it multiple times.
Signing a petition to ban anonymity and abuse of an online system while using an anonymous account and abusing the system by using more than one?
Nah, that's not at all hypocritical.
/sarcasm
Thank you, so much, Tina. I shall use the link provided, I honestly don't mean any personal attacks, it was just how I saw the contents. I'm glad to know this isn't just limited to me. :)
Hi kit, I see Tina has given you excellent advice, so I just wanted to post in support.It's very, very important readers and consumers don't allow ourselves to be intimidated regarding posting of honest consumer reviews. Readers and consumers should be able to have access to honest consumer reviews, and this should not be changed into only reviews that please the product seller simply because a few use intimidation and manipulation tactics against those who displease them.
Amazon has TOS in place regarding attempts to manipulate honest reviews. Here is verbiage someone else recommended to use in reporting a violation to Amazon, in case this helps:
"This author harasses reviewers in an attempt to silence negative reviews and opinions. This is in direct violation of your anti-manipulation policy."
kit wrote: "Thank you, so much, Tina. I shall use the link provided, I honestly don't mean any personal attacks, it was just how I saw the contents. I'm glad to know this isn't just limited to me. :)"You're very welcome, kit, and sad to say, you're definitely not alone. This kind of thing has become more and more common over the last few years and I know from personal experience how upsetting and frustrating it can be.
I'm sure the authors intent was to intimidate you into removing/changing your review and it's not cool. So many people end being bullied into it or made to feel guilty for being honest and it's wrong.
But, like I said, that kind of behavior is against the rules here and GRs is pretty good about dealing with it. You can also block the users who are giving you a hard time. Amazon is not as accommodating, unfortunately, but you can flag and report the comments there as well.
Thank you, Auntie, J <3 I thought that's what we all do on Goodreads. I'm in no position to see things from an authors viewpoint, I can only say what I feel as a reader. It must be hard to receive bad reviews, but surely one opinion isn't going to be damaging? I have read and loved books that have received bad reviews. I tend to go by the blurb.
kit wrote: "Thank you, so much, Tina. I shall use the link provided, I honestly don't mean any personal attacks, it was just how I saw the contents. I'm glad to know this isn't just limited to me. :)"No, it's not just you. Tina gave excellent advice, you want to report this when it happens.
Misfit wrote: "kit wrote: "Thank you, so much, Tina. I shall use the link provided, I honestly don't mean any personal attacks, it was just how I saw the contents. I'm glad to know this isn't just limited to me. ..."
You guys remind me of why I joined Goodreads! This can be a positive place for readers. x
You guys remind me of why I joined Goodreads! This can be a positive place for readers. x
kit wrote: "Thank you, Auntie, J <3 I thought that's what we all do on Goodreads. I'm in no position to see things from an authors viewpoint, I can only say what I feel as a reader. It must be hard to receive ..."Yes. And what some authors don't really understand is that sometimes a negative review helps sell the book.
What if one reader posted a review like, "This book has vampire bunnies in it! I hate vampire bunnies. I had no idea there were any in this book, yuck!" And someone who loves vampire bunnies sees it and thinks, "oooh! Vampire bunnies, cool!".
A negative review doesn't hurt as much as some authors might think, but even if they did readers and consumers aren't posting promotional material for the product seller.
A mix of reviews can also give more credence to the other more positive reviews. If we see a book from an unknown author that hasn't had many readers and all the reviews are rave reviews, well, it looks highly suspicious. Most books just aren't 5 star books, they just aren't (and that's ok!). So a book by an unknown indie author most haven't ever heard of with only a few reviews and all of them glowing - it smells of the friends and family plan.
TinaNicole ☠ Le Book Nikita ☠ wrote: "Misfit wrote: "D.A.—just a reader wrote: "Ah...the zombie threads. With deleted posts from users no longer here.
I rather liked that petition myself. Because within the day it was all over the b..."
I don't recall that petition, so I can't say whether I signed it. However, you can't hide behind your keyboard entirely as the authorities can track all of us. I have ranted about characters on many occasions and thought nothing of it, so I guess I didn't see the difference whilst reviewing this particular book. I think I'll avoid true stories on here from now on. I was just a bit mad because my sister purchased this as a gift for me, and it was super expensive.
I rather liked that petition myself. Because within the day it was all over the b..."
I don't recall that petition, so I can't say whether I signed it. However, you can't hide behind your keyboard entirely as the authorities can track all of us. I have ranted about characters on many occasions and thought nothing of it, so I guess I didn't see the difference whilst reviewing this particular book. I think I'll avoid true stories on here from now on. I was just a bit mad because my sister purchased this as a gift for me, and it was super expensive.
I also have to admit that if we were forced to give up our real identities, I would have to quit Goodreads. I work as a supported living assistant for the local authority and we're not permitted to have social network profiles in case someone posted something that could be deemed offensive on our page. They can't force you not to have them, they just discourage it. This is the only thing that I bother with, as to me, its a consumer advice service.
kit wrote: "I also have to admit that if we were forced to give up our real identities, I would have to quit Goodreads. I work as a supported living assistant for the local authority and we're not permitted to..."It was a petition to amazon to force reviewers to use their real names. Unlike GR, amazon already knows that, plus our adress, phone and credit card. If anyone got out of line and threatened people they'd know where to find them. Troublemakers can be banned from commenting, or even posting reviews.
That's good to know, I'm not sure where you are in the world, but even eBay started making news because of bad products and reviews.
Auntie J wrote: "Amazon has TOS in place regarding attempts to manipulate honest reviews. Here is verbiage someone else recommended to use in reporting a violation to Amazon, in case this helps:"This author harasses reviewers in an attempt to silence negative reviews and opinions. This is in direct violation of your anti-manipulation policy." ..."
I'd expect paraphrasing that when flagging to amazon-owned-goodreads--possibly replacing "anti-manipulation" with "no personal attacks and no commercial use policies"--would also be very effective with goodreads.
Both amazon and goodreads like most sites prohibit gaming the system -- which includes creating sockpuppet accounts or accounts for the sole purpose of getting a review or rating destroyed.
Although amazon specifically words it "anti-manipulation" -- that's also a part of actual criminal laws protecting consumer speech and preventing consumer fraud that all U.S. websites hosting or appearing to host consumer opinions, reviews and forums are subject to.
[Experience says amazon reacts rather quickly and seems really offended on reviewer's behalf if reviewer was called a moron or had their religious beliefs attacked if you unluck into one of those; less quickly if the attacks including things like insulting a reviewer's appearance or attacking their sexual orientation (move much quicker if starts getting a high quotient of social media attention or the ACLU gets called in) -- but, even then they'll eventually take action.]
D.A.—just a reader wrote: "Auntie J wrote: "Amazon has TOS in place regarding attempts to manipulate honest reviews. Here is verbiage someone else recommended to use in reporting a violation to Amazon, in case this helps:"..."
Thanks for the info D.A.!
