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The Mists of Avalon
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Zimmer, Marion ; The Mists of Avalon - Start Date April 2nd 2014 (April Scifi/Fantasy)
Questions and comments:Book 1 Mistress of Magic/Book 2 The High Queen Chapters 20 - 5 24)The encounter with the Lady on the strange land was creepy. But she also offered an alternative and happier future. Why didn't take it? If Morgaine didn't wanted the child, why not giving him to a place he would do no harm?
25)The way Lot talked about how frail were the newborns was ruthless, even from him. Even if Morgause was pondering how the child would be next in line to the throne. But in the end, the knowledge of who the baby's father was turned to be Morgause's greatest weapons.
26)From what you saw of Gwenhwyfar in this section and the previous time she appears, has your opinion changed about her?
27)Why didn't Arthur listened to Merlin? Why? We all know how the story ends. Do not trust your bride to Lancelet. Even your mother noticed.
28)Were you surprised that Morgaine appeared at her brother's wedding?
As you have noticed, we are a day behind on the questions. Since tomorrow we have a break day due to Lisarenee's surgery, I'm hoping we be able to catch up.Also, since the book is longer than usual, if you think another break will be needed let us know.
Mod
Questions and Comments for Chapters 5 - 96) What did you think of Gorlois? Anyone else get the impression he liked young girls? *shudder* He and Ingraine were so much like opposites. Do you think we got an accurate picture of him? I keep thinking of Morgaine's comment about two sides to every story.
I think Gorlois was the man of his time, and he was treating Igraine fairly up until his jealousy got the best of him. As for his affection for Morgause, I think it has more to do with her resemblance to young Igraine, back when she was obedient, respectful and didn’t know any better, as well as an attempt for himself to restore his own confidence.
7) What do you think of Uther and the way he treats Ingraine as opposed to Gorlois? Did you like how Ingraine was able to communicate with Uther?
How about his sneaking into her house? He kind of put her in a bad spot, don't you think? Peer pressure at its finest.
They seem to have a genuine connection, although it was disappointing to see them give in to passion before settling their affairs. Not very fitting for the High King and the Lady married to another man.
8) I was kind of sad to all of a sudden get Morgaine's comments again. We get a brief history of how Lot came to marry Morgause. I wonder if Morgause will play a larger role later?
Morgause seems like a pragmatic person, who would act based on reason and calculation, not emotion. Also there’s Viviane’s foreshadowing about Morgause and the fourth face of the Goddess, so I can see her play a part in the future, but not sure which side she would take.
9) What's your impression of Viviane? How about her having another child? I wonder how old she is?
I like Viviane so far. As for her having a child at her age, my guess is she is aware of the important role her son would play in the future and is taking the risk for the best of her land and her people.
10) So we get an interesting first look as to how Morgaine sees her brother, Arthur. She's very jealous of him but sees it as her duty to take care of him. I can't wait to hear her story. She has the sight just like her aunt and probably her mother. I wonder why Uther would be opposed to someone having the sight? I just didn't get the impression it would bother him. What did you think?
Morgaine seems wise and mature beyond her years. She is being disregarded in favor of her brother and stepfather, so her resentment is understandable and yet she assumes the responsibility.
I don’t think Uther’s personal opinion of the Sight and Mysteries matters much since he as the King has to please too many people often with opposite views. So keeping low profile is probably the most reasonable thing to do to keep everyone happy.
11) Is Morgaine hanging around Viviane a good idea? I'm not sure what I think about this.
Good question. Viviane could be a good influence on Morgaine and teach her a lot about the old ways, but she could also take advantage of the child with superpowers who feels lonely and abandoned.
12)Would you want to take Viviane's place as Lady of the Lake and have the sight like she has? I wonder if she can change the future?
I don’t know whether I would like to take her place, to be honest and I’m glad I don’t really have the choice :). Having the gift of Sight would compel me to do the right thing but I’m not sure I’m a strong enough person.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 14 - 1918)As Lisarenee predicted, the ritual was something violent. But the morning after was really sweet. At least till they recognize each other. With so many maidens available, why did Viviane have to choose her?
I'm guessing maybe it was a prophecy that she knew about since she had mentioned before that Morgaine might come to hate her.
19)Thoughts about Kevin and the meeting with the current and future Merlin and Lady of Avalon?
They seem to have a lot of random visitors in Avalon. I'm not sure I fully caught what all was going on.
20)And the boy who takes the sword from the stone shall be king. Not Excalibur, as in the Disney version, but the Pendragon one. What do you think about all the symbolism in the book?
I think kings and royalty in general draw a lot on symbolism. It's just like religion in a way. You have to create a bunch of traditions around something in order to keep people doing the same type of thing. Also helps eliminate fighting somewhat.
21)Arthur seems just like a regular boy. And he's supposed to fight Saxons and unite Britain?
Hrm. Well he's like 17-19ish I think now. That's old enough for people to start in the military. I'm guessing he's been trained since early childhood in military decisions. I could see how he could do it. Plus he has tons of advisors. (Though it seems like most of his companion advisors are kids themselves).
22)What do you think about Morgause, Morgaine and Ingraine's reaction to each other?
Morgause just confuses me. She seems so mean most of the time then somewhat nice about the pregnant thing. Ingraine seems mostly just like a terrible mother and kind of blind to everything else. I don't think she would make a very good queen if she's only caught up in herself and Uther.
23)"But if Avalon was no longer home to her, what then?"
Signs of hard times to come?
I'm guessing that she's getting a bit disillusioned with the whole incest thing. I wonder if she's regretting her choice again.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 14 - 1918)As Lisarenee predicted, the ritual was something violent. But the morning after was really sweet. At least till they recognize each other. With so many maidens available, why did Viviane have to choose her?
I think it's a bit incestuous, though I think that is more of a Christian concern than a Pagan one. Through out history (and the Targareans in A Game of Thrones) Royal families have married relatives to keep bloodlines pure etc. wikipedia link And now I think Morgaine is pregnant to Arthur.
19)Thoughts about Kevin and the meeting with the current and future Merlin and Lady of Avalon?
Interesting. I think we will see Kevin and Morgaine working together later on, so introduced now.
20)And the boy who takes the sword from the stone shall be king. Not Excalibur, as in the Disney version, but the Pendragon one. What do you think about all the symbolism in the book?
I hadn't thought about there being two swords, but I suppose there are Christian and Pagan people/customs/prophesy. I did like the bit about Excalibur being forged from a meteorite.
21)Arthur seems just like a regular boy. And he's supposed to fight Saxons and unite Britain?
All Kings start as regular boys.
22)What do you think about Morgause, Morgaine and Ingraine's reaction to each other?
About what I expected.
23)"But if Avalon was no longer home to her, what then?"
Signs of hard times to come?
I think there will be many hard times ahead. But Avalon is her home still.
Questions and Comments for Chapters 10 - 1313) We get our first look at Avalon. What did you think? Did you like the place hidden in the mists?
I really liked Avalon and how it was revealed. Made me think of the first glimpse of Rivendell by the Fellowship in “The Lord of the Rings”.
14) What did you think of Morgaine's training? We really didn't get a big insight into her training which has lasted 8 years. Did you wish the author had gone into it more or did you like the air of mystery surrounding it?
There was enough information for me, and frankly the book is already so long to wish it even longer! :)
15) Can you imagine sending your son and daughter off like Ingraine did? What do you think of Morgause and Lot possibly being behind the assassination attempts?
I don’t have kids but I can imagine it would be extremely difficult to send them off away from my care. Fortunately rules of medieval diplomacy don’t apply to us common folk!
It is easy to believe that Morgause and Lot could be behind assassination attempts, they both seem ambitious and power hungry and the ends may very well justify the means for them.
16) Interesting, don't you think, that Viviane doesn't know for certain if Raven or Morgaine will be the next Lady of Avalon? Viviane wields a lot of power, but doesn't truly know if it's the Goddesses will. That's a lot to bear. I'm guessing it's the sight that guides her decisions?
I Imagine having a definite answer relying on Sight alone would be impossible, since a vision can be interpreted in more than one way. And I did like what Merlin told Viviane about not confusing the will of the Goddess with her own, I think we might see exactly that happening at some point.
17) This Horned God and virginity ritual must be pretty bad if Viviane thinks Morgaine will hate her after. I'm not sure what's in store. Is anyone else curious?
I’d say it's curiosity mixed with apprehension.
18) It sounds like Arthur and the sword in the stone will be coming into play. At least I'm guessing that's the sword they're referring to. Is anyone else looking forward to our first glimpse in 8 years at Arthur? I wonder how old he is? I'm thinking he's around 12 or 13, but I can't remember how old he was when he fell off his horse.
I think so too and I’m curious to see how much of the well-known sword-in-the-stone legend will be preserved.
Questions and Comments for Book 2 The High Queen: Chapters 6 - 829)Gathering all different faiths in one place is asking for trouble. Will Arthur be able to keep the promise made of keeping all faiths represented on his battles? Or the fact that either his wedding and his bride have such Christian devotion will interfere sooner or later?
30)Arthur asked Morgaine to be one of Gwenhwyfar's ladies? Really? A priestess from Avalon. Not to mention their ritual.
31)The more I read. The more the clash of faiths seems inevitable. A simple request for a song turns into a debate of evil, good, and what is proper for a lady. Surprised?
32)Once again Lancelet and Morgaine's moment passed. It was not written. I'm wondering, as Morgaine did, if all suffering and hate and longing could be avoided if she broke her vow that day in Avalon? Doesn't it make you wonder if Viviane truly knows what she's doing?
33)So, Gwenhwyfar ponders a marriage between Lancelet and Evana. But she was against the idea of him marrying before. Maybe because she fears that only Morgaine could take him away?
34)What did you think about Arthur's proposition? Maybe he is not so blind about the shared feelings? Or is the contrary? Because if he payed a bit attention he would know that his wife and his best friend would become lovers. It wouldn't be only the conceiving of a child. Does the desire for an heir take over anything else?
Lisarenee wrote: "I have surgery on Tuesday..."Crossing fingers for a successful surgery and speedy recovery, Lisarenee!
Questions and comments:Book 1 Mistress of Magic/Book 2 The High Queen Chapters 20 - 5 24)The encounter with the Lady on the strange land was creepy. But she also offered an alternative and happier future. Why didn't take it? If Morgaine didn't wanted the child, why not giving him to a place he would do no harm?
I think she should have.
25)The way Lot talked about how frail were the newborns was ruthless, even from him. Even if Morgause was pondering how the child would be next in line to the throne. But in the end, the knowledge of who the baby's father was turned to be Morgause's greatest weapons.
This bit made me think that Morgause wasn't behind any attepts on Arthur, but Lot may have been. Brutal. I don't think Morgause could willfully murder a baby, her mothering instincts seem too strong.
26)From what you saw of Gwenhwyfar in this section and the previous time she appears, has your opinion changed about her?
I think she's agoraphobic (view spoiler). My initial impression was that she was a sweet girl. I still think she is sweet, but not really High Queen material. She is in love with Lancelet and too shy/phobic to be really involved in running the land. She is more a pretty trophy wife to sit at home and beget heirs (view spoiler)
27)Why didn't Arthur listened to Merlin? Why? We all know how the story ends. Do not trust your bride to Lancelet. Even your mother noticed.
I don't know. You just can't tell some people. I'm a bit like that too though, I always look for the best in people and often only see what I want to see.
28)Were you surprised that Morgaine appeared at her brother's wedding?
No, I thought she would be there.
Spectre wrote: "Lisarenee wrote: "I have surgery on Tuesday..."Crossing fingers for a successful surgery and speedy recovery, Lisarenee!"
Thanks Spectre. Everything seemed to go alright in surgery. I have a massive sore throat and various other pains, but painkillers are keeping it under control, but I'm also tired. Hopefully that will mean I sleep well tonight. Didn't get much reading done, but started listening to the audio book so I made some progress and should catch up tomorrow. In the mean time I tracked down some pictures of old paintings I fell in love with years ago and will post. I hope you enjoy them.
Lancelot and Guinevere by Herbert James Draper found on Wikipedia commons no longer under full copyright protection. I need to get a copy of the doohickey that states that for me.
This one isn't from King Arthur, but it kind of looked how I imagined he would later in life. To me it depicts his struggle to keep the peace where religion is concerned:
Sir Frank Dicksee - The Two Crowns found again on Wikepedia commons no longer under full copyright protection.
Morgan Le Fay by JR Spencer Stanhope found again on Wikepedia commons no longer under full copyright protection.
Questions and comments:Book 1 Mistress of Magic/Book 2 The High Queen Chapters 20 - 5 24)The encounter with the Lady on the strange land was creepy. But she also offered an alternative and happier future. Why didn't take it? If Morgaine didn't wanted the child, why not giving him to a place he would do no harm?
Hrm. I suppose knowing you'd have no other child would probably go a long way towards changing your mind about the current one you have.
25)The way Lot talked about how frail were the newborns was ruthless, even from him. Even if Morgause was pondering how the child would be next in line to the throne. But in the end, the knowledge of who the baby's father was turned to be Morgause's greatest weapons.
I could definitely see pondering where the child lies in the succession line but how could you look at a newborn and say that "well, the mother doesn't care enough about it yet so we can kill it now." I suppose people were a bit harder about that type of stuff in the medieval ages where people tended to lose more children but it still seems really extreme. I think taking the baby away at the beginning did more to cause the baby to think someone else was his mother rather than have Morgaine forget about the baby.
26)From what you saw of Gwenhwyfar in this section and the previous time she appears, has your opinion changed about her?
I think it's rather tragic. She seems like a nice person overall in a not real great predicament.
27)Why didn't Arthur listened to Merlin? Why? We all know how the story ends. Do not trust your bride to Lancelet. Even your mother noticed.
I think Arthur's too trusting for his own good. I don't think a high king can afford to be that trusting.
28)Were you surprised that Morgaine appeared at her brother's wedding?
No. If Morgause was going then it makes sense that Morgaine would travel with her. I suppose it means she's still living there.
MERLIN AND VIVIEN - Illustration from Legends & Romances of Brittany by Lewis Spence, illustrated by W. Otway Cannell:
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Questions and comments for April 9th; Chapters 9 - 12 (pages 337 - 397)35) I can't believe Gwenhwyfar is making Arthur give up the Pendragon banner and not even letting Lancelot carry it. What a stupid move. Arthur never should have married her. What do you think? With such a great battle coming Britain and all her allies are needed to win. I can't believe she stayed behind and put both herself and her baby in danger. I don't think the baby would have survived due to her previous history of miscarriages. I think she probably needs some medical intervention of some sort, perhaps something Morgaine could have provided.
35) I felt so bad for Kevin. I suppose at that time people did think those with defects could curse their babies, but really? Just another reason I don't like Gwenhwyfar. I don't think her illness had anything to do with her feelings. What about you?
35) I used to like Lancelot, but after the way he treated Morgaine that opinion has changed. I don't like him. Anyone else?
36) Where is Morgaine? Who is the Grey King the little girl spoke of with her sight?
37) What of Morgaine and Arthur's son? I can't believe she never told Arthur or anyone else about him, and I still can't believe she left him with Morgause knowing her hubby, Lot, had his sights set on the crown and her son could be in harms way.
38) Looks like all of Viviane's plans went to hell in a hand basket when she put Arthur and Morgaine together. I think it may have been her undoing. I guess we'll find out if I'm right. I think Viviane doesn't have the forethought of how her decisions will play out in the long run. What do you think? I think she should have made sure he married someone who supported Avalon or at least was open to the idea.
Questions and comments:Book 1 Mistress of Magic/Book 2 The High Queen Chapters 20 - 5 (view spoiler)
Questions and Comments for Book 2 The High Queen: Chapters 6 - 829)Gathering all different faiths in one place is asking for trouble. Will Arthur be able to keep the promise made of keeping all faiths represented on his battles? Or the fact that either his wedding and his bride have such Christian devotion will interfere sooner or later?
It feels a lot like America does a lot of the time. It's supposed to be a country where all religion is accepted but a lot of people still try to make only one religion the valid choice.
30)Arthur asked Morgaine to be one of Gwenhwyfar's ladies? Really? A priestess from Avalon. Not to mention their ritual.
I think Arthur is a bit idealistic which I suppose is his main draw and what makes people loyal to him.
31)The more I read. The more the clash of faiths seems inevitable. A simple request for a song turns into a debate of evil, good, and what is proper for a lady. Surprised?
I would have thought that singing would have been an appropriate passtime for a lady, especially if it's an appropriate song.
32)Once again Lancelet and Morgaine's moment passed. It was not written. I'm wondering, as Morgaine did, if all suffering and hate and longing could be avoided if she broke her vow that day in Avalon? Doesn't it make you wonder if Viviane truly knows what she's doing?
It's strange since Lancelot doesn't really want Morgaine and Morgaine doesn't really even want Lancelot. I wonder if they're just replaying this since they're both lonely and have a memory that they wanted to be with each other a long time ago.
33)So, Gwenhwyfar ponders a marriage between Lancelet and Evana. But she was against the idea of him marrying before. Maybe because she fears that only Morgaine could take him away?
I think she may be losing her will to resist having an affair. Especially since she's been given permission to have one now.
34)What did you think about Arthur's proposition? Maybe he is not so blind about the shared feelings? Or is the contrary? Because if he payed a bit attention he would know that his wife and his best friend would become lovers. It wouldn't be only the conceiving of a child. Does the desire for an heir take over anything else?
I thought it was actually a very forward way of thinking about it. I get the impression that most men (especially in the days before we knew how this all worked for the most part) blamed the women solely when they couldn't produce a child. I do tend to think that Arthur tends to be fairly self sacrificing so that is probably part of it too.
Questions and Comments for Book 2 The High Queen: Chapters 6 - 829)Gathering all different faiths in one place is asking for trouble. Will Arthur be able to keep the promise made of keeping all faiths represented on his battles? Or the fact that either his wedding and his bride have such Christian devotion will interfere sooner or later?
It is always difficult to keep everyone happy, even when religion isn't involved.
30)Arthur asked Morgaine to be one of Gwenhwyfar's ladies? Really? A priestess from Avalon. Not to mention their ritual.
I think he still felt some close bond to Morgaine and wanted to keep her close.
31)The more I read. The more the clash of faiths seems inevitable. A simple request for a song turns into a debate of evil, good, and what is proper for a lady. Surprised?
It is interesting to see how much the Christian faith has changed over the years, music is such a big part nowdays. Druid and Christian are opposite in so many beliefs, clashes are inevitable.
32)Once again Lancelet and Morgaine's moment passed. It was not written. I'm wondering, as Morgaine did, if all suffering and hate and longing could be avoided if she broke her vow that day in Avalon? Doesn't it make you wonder if Viviane truly knows what she's doing?
Viviene had to make her own decisions inspired by the Goddess, she is not infallible. I think Morgaine should have followed her instincts and broken her vow with Lancelet and a different story would have unfolded. But it seemed like fate sent Gwenhwyfar to interupt them, so maybe all is as should be.
33)So, Gwenhwyfar ponders a marriage between Lancelet and Evana. But she was against the idea of him marrying before. Maybe because she fears that only Morgaine could take him away?
Maybe.
34)What did you think about Arthur's proposition? Maybe he is not so blind about the shared feelings? Or is the contrary? Because if he payed a bit attention he would know that his wife and his best friend would become lovers. It wouldn't be only the conceiving of a child. Does the desire for an heir take over anything else?
If he knew about the son he had with Morgaine I don't think he would have made this suggestion. I don't think he realises that Gwenhwyfar has been in love with Lancelet for years.
Questions and Comments for April 10th; Chapters 13 - 17/Pages 397 - 44939) You know, for a moment there I thought I was reading one of the books in the Game of Thrones series. A threesome? Dear goodness, I did not expect that. Anyone else? I can't see how that will end well.
40) I can't believe Morgaine hasn't checked or inquired about her son. I want to know how the little tyke is doing.
41) The 5 years Morgaine was gone is kind of creepy. She can only account for a few days. She could have had kids in that amount of time and never know it. I am totally shocked she couldn't reenter Avalon. Will she end up taking Viviane's place?
42) It sounds like Arthur will be punished for this denouncing Avalon and breaking his vow. I wonder what Viviane will do or will it be Morgaine? What if his and Morgaine's son is the cost? Would they kill him?
43) I wonder what it was that Morgaine saw in her brief sight of Kevin burning? Do you think it was his death?
P.S. We're half way through the reading. Yah!
Questions and comments for April 9th; Chapters 9 - 12 (pages 337 - 397)35) I can't believe Gwenhwyfar is making Arthur give up the Pendragon banner and not even letting Lancelot carry it. What a stupid move. Arthur never should have married her. What do you think? With such a great battle coming Britain and all her allies are needed to win. I can't believe she stayed behind and put both herself and her baby in danger. I don't think the baby would have survived due to her previous history of miscarriages. I think she probably needs some medical intervention of some sort, perhaps something Morgaine could have provided.
She is not a strong confident queen. I don't think she will ever give Arthur an heir. Going to Camelot via litter would have been the most sensible idea. Arthur might still win the war because he married her and got all those horeses as the dowry. He should ride under both banners though.
35) I felt so bad for Kevin. I suppose at that time people did think those with defects could curse their babies, but really? Just another reason I don't like Gwenhwyfar. I don't think her illness had anything to do with her feelings. What about you?
I thought it was because Kevin was a druid that she was worried he had cursed the baby. Gwen is a very devout Christian who wants nothing to do with the druids and their pagan religion. I think her illness caused the misscarriage and halucinations about the snakes.
35) I used to like Lancelot, but after the way he treated Morgaine that opinion has changed. I don't like him. Anyone else?
All the characters in this book have their faults. I've never really taken to any of them. My opinion of Lancelet hasn't changed.
36) Where is Morgaine? Who is the Grey King the little girl spoke of with her sight? I think she went to the fairies. Not sure about the grey king.
I think she is with the faries. Maybe the Grey King is king of the faries?
37) What of Morgaine and Arthur's son? I can't believe she never told Arthur or anyone else about him, and I still can't believe she left him with Morgause knowing her hubby, Lot, had his sights set on the crown and her son could be in harms way.
Lot might put her son on the throne as his puppet. He has raised the boy, so he would run the kingdom as Lot would want.
38) Looks like all of Viviane's plans went to hell in a hand basket when she put Arthur and Morgaine together. I think it may have been her undoing. I guess we'll find out if I'm right. I think Viviane doesn't have the forethought of how her decisions will play out in the long run. What do you think? I think she should have made sure he married someone who supported Avalon or at least was open to the idea.
Viviane is not perfect either. Things didn't turn out quite as she had planned. I don't think she had any input into the choosing of Arthurs wife, and once she met her it was too late.
I hate to be the bothersome one but do you think we could have another catch up day?
Zonnah wrote: "I hate to be the bothersome one but do you think we could have another catch up day?"That would work for me too.
The mods were talking about this, so I bet Sonia and Lisarenee say yes.
Thank you for adding the break; I am less stressed now. :)
Mod
Thank you, I can use a catch up day too. I was hoping to be all caught up by now, but apparently real life didn't get the memo :(.Questions and Comments for Chapters 14 - 19
18)As Lisarenee predicted, the ritual was something violent. But the morning after was really sweet. At least till they recognize each other. With so many maidens available, why did Viviane have to choose her?
Viviane was trying to preserve the royal bloodline and it seems like they had to rush it because Uther was dying. I guess she was counting on them to not recognize each other.
19)Thoughts about Kevin and the meeting with the current and future Merlin and Lady of Avalon?
Kevin seems like an interesting character, I’d like to see more of him.
20)And the boy who takes the sword from the stone shall be king. Not Excalibur, as in the Disney version, but the Pendragon one. What do you think about all the symbolism in the book?
I was happy to see both the stone and Excalibur make an appearance, even if not in the same sentence. Here’s what Morgaine says in the prologue: “the tale should be told as it was before the priests of White Christ came to cover it all with their saints and legends”, I guess in Marion Zimmer Bradley’s version the legend of the sword is one of them.
21)Arthur seems just like a regular boy. And he's supposed to fight Saxons and unite Britain?
He seems quite prepared and eager to learn when it comes to fighting and uniting despite his young age: he has been trained extensively in combat, his close companion is cavalry enthusiast Lancelet and Lot was praising his strategic skills. But I do think he might fall short on his promise to Lady Viviane.
22)What do you think about Morgause, Morgaine and Ingraine's reaction to each other?
Theirs was one awkward family reunion for sure :). Morgause surprised me by being a caring aunt while still managing to stay true to herself.
23)"But if Avalon was no longer home to her, what then?"
Signs of hard times to come?
I’m certain there are hard times ahead but I also think that Morgaine would be bound to Avalon one way or another for the rest of her life (and possibly afterlife).
Questions and comments:Book 1 Mistress of Magic/Book 2 The High Queen Chapters 20 - 524)The encounter with the Lady on the strange land was creepy. But she also offered an alternative and happier future. Why didn't take it? If Morgaine didn't wanted the child, why not giving him to a place he would do no harm?
I think Morgaine didn’t even give herself enough time to consider the offer because she was terrified of the strange place and the woman and all she could think of was to get out of there as soon as possible.
25)The way Lot talked about how frail were the newborns was ruthless, even from him. Even if Morgause was pondering how the child would be next in line to the throne. But in the end, the knowledge of who the baby's father was turned to be Morgause's greatest weapons.
Lot’s ruthlessness didn’t surprise me, but I was glad to see that Morgause had to draw the line somewhere. I wonder how her knowing who the father is will affect her relationship with Morgaine.
26)From what you saw of Gwenhwyfar in this section and the previous time she appears, has your opinion changed about her?
Gwenhwyfar seems sweet, shy, scared and obedient girl, spoiled by her father and not used to thinking for herself. Her silent resentment and displeasure at being treated as property and given to marry in exchange for dowry and not for her own merit, as well as realization of her feelings for Lancelet promise for some interesting future character development.
27)Why didn't Arthur listened to Merlin? Why? We all know how the story ends. Do not trust your bride to Lancelet. Even your mother noticed.
Couldn’t be helped, I guess. They haven’t done anything wrong yet and they were bound to run into one another after the wedding anyway.
28)Were you surprised that Morgaine appeared at her brother's wedding?
No, she didn't have a reason not to be there in my opinion.
Questions and comments for April 9th; Chapters 9 - 12 (pages 337 - 397)35) I can't believe Gwenhwyfar is making Arthur give up the Pendragon banner and not even letting Lancelot carry it. What a stupid move. Arthur never should have married her. What do you think? With such a great battle coming Britain and all her allies are needed to win. I can't believe she stayed behind and put both herself and her baby in danger. I don't think the baby would have survived due to her previous history of miscarriages. I think she probably needs some medical intervention of some sort, perhaps something Morgaine could have provided.
I can't believe he listened to her. It's an incredibly stupid military decision to alienate a whole bunch of your army when you're already outnumbered. She's giving women a bad name in military strategy. He really should have forced her to leave.
35) I felt so bad for Kevin. I suppose at that time people did think those with defects could curse their babies, but really? Just another reason I don't like Gwenhwyfar. I don't think her illness had anything to do with her feelings. What about you?
I think she was more concerned with the pagan thing than the defect thing. She's pretty anti anyone different though.
35) I used to like Lancelot, but after the way he treated Morgaine that opinion has changed. I don't like him. Anyone else?
I think he's just having a rough time since he can't really have anything he wants. Though I'm not sure he really wants Gwen much after this episode.
36) Where is Morgaine? Who is the Grey King the little girl spoke of with her sight?
I wonder if she traveled into the Saxon lands for some reason. I seem to remember there being some sort of enchanted area in one of the stories, maybe that place she visited before where they warned her that she'd only have the one child?
37) What of Morgaine and Arthur's son? I can't believe she never told Arthur or anyone else about him, and I still can't believe she left him with Morgause knowing her hubby, Lot, had his sights set on the crown and her son could be in harms way.
I guess if you never wanted your child anyway and didn't care much for them after they were born... still though. You'd think she'd at least drop him off somewhere better.
38) Looks like all of Viviane's plans went to hell in a hand basket when she put Arthur and Morgaine together. I think it may have been her undoing. I guess we'll find out if I'm right. I think Viviane doesn't have the forethought of how her decisions will play out in the long run. What do you think? I think she should have made sure he married someone who supported Avalon or at least was open to the idea.
Maybe it's her punishment for being cocky about things? They seem to like to do that in religious type scenarios.
Questions and Comments for April 10th; Chapters 13 - 17/Pages 397 - 44939) You know, for a moment there I thought I was reading one of the books in the Game of Thrones series. A threesome? Dear goodness, I did not expect that. Anyone else? I can't see how that will end well.
LOL. I am reading GOT book 5 aswell as this one at the moment, I'm reading GOT as audio book, otherwise I might have been a bit confused too. Didn't see this coming. i thought Gwen might sleeep with Lance with Arthurs blessing, but didn't think he would be involved. Lesson of the day, don't mix fertility charms with too much wine...(or do, depending on the outcome you're looking for!)
40) I can't believe Morgaine hasn't checked or inquired about her son. I want to know how the little tyke is doing.
She is too ashamed to admit who the child's father is, so is just avoiding him altogether. She is curious, but her shame outways her curiosity.
41) The 5 years Morgaine was gone is kind of creepy. She can only account for a few days. She could have had kids in that amount of time and never know it. I am totally shocked she couldn't reenter Avalon. Will she end up taking Viviane's place?
Time runs differently in fairy land, she was only there for less than a couple of weeks, but five years went past in the human world. Old wives tales said don't drink or eat food in fairy land - that's what made Morgaine almost drunk and not in control of her mind while she was there.
She didn't really try to reenter Avalon. I think she will go back and become the Lady of the lake, but maybe not until she has some grey in her hair, as seen in the vision.
42) It sounds like Arthur will be punished for this denouncing Avalon and breaking his vow. I wonder what Viviane will do or will it be Morgaine? What if his and Morgaine's son is the cost? Would they kill him?
Viviane will come and take away the sword. I don't think they will kill his son, more that they will make Arthur acknowledge him and name him heir and foster him to Avalon.
43) I wonder what it was that Morgaine saw in her brief sight of Kevin burning? Do you think it was his death?
That's what it seemed like.
Questions and Comments for Book 2 The High Queen: Chapters 6 - 829)Gathering all different faiths in one place is asking for trouble. Will Arthur be able to keep the promise made of keeping all faiths represented on his battles? Or the fact that either his wedding and his bride have such Christian devotion will interfere sooner or later?
I think he sincerely wants to keep his promise and will try at least as long as Merlin is near to guide him. But Merlin is getting old and there’s so much pressure from the priest and his wife, the temptation to please them and take an easy way might take over.
30)Arthur asked Morgaine to be one of Gwenhwyfar's ladies? Really? A priestess from Avalon. Not to mention their ritual.
Perhaps he thought it an honor for his sister to be the first lady-in-waiting and suitable for her rank of Duchess of Cornwall. And I think he trusts her and wants her near, because their bond, however unconventional, brought them close.
31)The more I read. The more the clash of faiths seems inevitable. A simple request for a song turns into a debate of evil, good, and what is proper for a lady. Surprised?
Not surprised at all.
32)Once again Lancelet and Morgaine's moment passed. It was not written. I'm wondering, as Morgaine did, if all suffering and hate and longing could be avoided if she broke her vow that day in Avalon? Doesn't it make you wonder if Viviane truly knows what she's doing?
Viviane must choose the Greater Good over personal happiness of even those she cares about the most, so she must do what she thinks is best for her people and her land. And Morgaine could have been spared the suffering if she had broken the vow, but there’s no way to tell if this would have been the best outcome for all.
33)So, Gwenhwyfar ponders a marriage between Lancelet and Evana. But she was against the idea of him marrying before. Maybe because she fears that only Morgaine could take him away?
I think it was nothing more than the passing thought, in the same sentence it says: “she knew she would not; she told herself it would be time enough for that on the day Lancelet told them that he was seeking to be wedded”. But if it were up to Gwenhwyfar, I think she would rather see Elaine as his wife rather than Morgaine, for she might be subconsciously aware of their rivalry.
34)What did you think about Arthur's proposition? Maybe he is not so blind about the shared feelings? Or is the contrary? Because if he payed a bit attention he would know that his wife and his best friend would become lovers. It wouldn't be only the conceiving of a child. Does the desire for an heir take over anything else?
I think Arthur might be aware of attraction between his wife and Lancelet, otherwise his proposition would have been hugely offensive to Gwenhwyfar. And while trying to do what he thinks is best he might not realize that he is killing her with kindness so to speak.
Questions and Comments for April 10th; Chapters 13 - 17/Pages 397 - 449Question 39
I just remembered that I got the impression that Arthur wished someone else was in on that threesome....I think he is in love with Morgaine.
Questions and comments for April 9th; Chapters 9 - 12 (pages 337 - 397)35) I can't believe Gwenhwyfar is making Arthur give up the Pendragon banner and not even letting Lancelot carry it. What a stupid move. Arthur never should have married her. What do you think? With such a great battle coming Britain and all her allies are needed to win. I can't believe she stayed behind and put both herself and her baby in danger. I don't think the baby would have survived due to her previous history of miscarriages. I think she probably needs some medical intervention of some sort, perhaps something Morgaine could have provided.
Urgh!!! I wished for Gwenhwyfar to be more independent and outspoken but this cry for attention at the worst possible time was beyond selfish! I think the replacement of the banner was the beginning of the end of Arthur’s promise and things would go down from there, unless Morgaine returns and challenges them. As for the baby, perhaps Gwenhwyfar is destined to have it by another man after all.
35) I felt so bad for Kevin. I suppose at that time people did think those with defects could curse their babies, but really? Just another reason I don't like Gwenhwyfar. I don't think her illness had anything to do with her feelings. What about you?
I felt bad for him too, all he tried to do was to please her and he certainly didn’t deserve to be treated so harshly. I think she became ill from too much strain from her fears of the pagan symbols combined with poor conditions. Some of the dreams she had made me wonder if she has a gift of the Sight to some extent.
35) I used to like Lancelot, but after the way he treated Morgaine that opinion has changed. I don't like him. Anyone else?
I still like Lanselet and his mistreatment of Morgaine seemed more of a misunderstanding to me, he was trying protect her honor while she took offence at his detachment.
36) Where is Morgaine? Who is the Grey King the little girl spoke of with her sight?
I think, judging by Viviane’s vision, Morgaine found her way back into the fairy land and Grey King might be the ruler of the enchanted place.
37) What of Morgaine and Arthur's son? I can't believe she never told Arthur or anyone else about him, and I still can't believe she left him with Morgause knowing her hubby, Lot, had his sights set on the crown and her son could be in harms way.
Morgaine felt she had enough reason not to let Arthur know for his own sake and Morgause did everything in her power to make sure Morgaine cared for her son as little as possible. Also she (Morgause) swore not to tell anyone that Arthur was the child’s father.
38) Looks like all of Viviane's plans went to hell in a hand basket when she put Arthur and Morgaine together. I think it may have been her undoing. I guess we'll find out if I'm right. I think Viviane doesn't have the forethought of how her decisions will play out in the long run. What do you think? I think she should have made sure he married someone who supported Avalon or at least was open to the idea.
Helping Arthur rise to the throne should have been insurance enough, I suppose Viviane didn’t realize just how fast the times were changing.
Questions and Comments for April 10th; Chapters 13 - 17/Pages 397 - 44939) You know, for a moment there I thought I was reading one of the books in the Game of Thrones series. A threesome? Dear goodness, I did not expect that. Anyone else? I can't see how that will end well.
Well, I suppose it fits right in with all the incest and orgies. I'm guessing that Arthur's first born son will be revealed and it will be a choice between his bastard son and the son that his wife bears that isn't really his.
40) I can't believe Morgaine hasn't checked or inquired about her son. I want to know how the little tyke is doing.
She seems guilty about it at this point. Like she wants to but can't since it's been so long.
41) The 5 years Morgaine was gone is kind of creepy. She can only account for a few days. She could have had kids in that amount of time and never know it. I am totally shocked she couldn't reenter Avalon. Will she end up taking Viviane's place?
I'm guessing entering Avalon is more of a state of mind thing so when she rebalances herself she can go back.
42) It sounds like Arthur will be punished for this denouncing Avalon and breaking his vow. I wonder what Viviane will do or will it be Morgaine? What if his and Morgaine's son is the cost? Would they kill him?
I think they might just take him since she wanted to raise him in Avalon anyway. I would think losing his "anti-bleeding" scabbard would be a punishment in itself. I'm guessing he'll lose some members of his court since Lancelot is more on Viviane's side.
43) I wonder what it was that Morgaine saw in her brief sight of Kevin burning? Do you think it was his death?
I wonder if the Saxons come back or if there's a new battle. I'm guessing that the druids and the Christians turn against each other.
Sonia's and Lisarenee's Questions and comments for Book 3 The King Stag: Ch 01-0744)What did you think of Gwydion's little manipulation? The way he has everybody wrapped under his finger scared me. Not to mention the way his mind works.
45)I was surprised with Lancelet's admissions. Who would imagine that he would confess to Morgaine?
46)Gwenhwyfar discovers about Morgaine's son. I am disliking this maneuvers so much that I would prefer that Gareth had spoken in front of the king himself. I would like to see Arthur's reaction.
47)It looks Gwydion was a backup plan all along just in case Arthur didn't keep his vows. Can Viviane be so detached?
48)Viviane's death was shocking. I confess I had to read the same paragraph twice to believe what was happening. Thoughts?
49)Where you surprise with Kevin allowing Viviane to be buried on Christian soil? Maybe that burning by traitor's death Morgaine foresaw wasn't quite so out of the question. Was the wrong man chosen to succeed the previous Merlin?
50)How over confident or foolish Gwenhwyfar is. After Meleagrant's actions on the king's hall, how can she still think it wise to go to him without an armed escort?
51)Thoughts about Elaine and Morgaine's pact?
Questions and comments for April 13th; Chapters 8 - 10/Pages 555 - 60052) So at the very beginning of this section Morgaine thinks to herself, "no man could escape fate (...) No woman either." Yet isn't that what the Ladies of Avalon seem to be doing--trying to change people's fates? The story about Oedipus doesn't seem that far off from some of the things we've seen. When Morgaine sees things with her sight, do you think they're set in stone or can she change them? Do you think they can be altered in any way? So far Morgaine's predicted three deaths and a birth--
Gareth's (Morgause's youngest son) death -- “There will be peace,” Morgaine said absently, “but it will not matter, for he will die at the hands of his dearest friend—"
Kevin's death (perhaps by her own hand) -- "Death! Death by burning! What did it mean? Not even the worst of traitors died that death . . . or had she seen only what had befallen him when he was lamed as a boy? Brief as the moment of Sight had been, it left her shaken, as if she herself had spoken the word that would deliver him to his death."
Viviane's (I think) death -- “Blood on the hearth—” Morgaine stammered. “See, there, there, just before the King’s high seat, slain there like a slaughtered sheep before the King ."
Lancelet's son's birth by Elaine -- "You will bear Lancelet children, for I have seen his son . . .” and she stopped, feeling her skin prickle all the way up her spine, as when the Sight came upon her. Elaine’s blue eyes were wide with wonder. She could almost hear Elaine’s thought, So it is true then, and I will have Lancelet for husband and give him children. . . . Yes, it is true, though I did not know it until I spoke ."
Do you think she can or could alter any of this?
53) This section actually made me intensely dislike Gwenhwyfar for setting up Morgaine to marry Uriens when it was his son, Accolan, Morgaine wanted to be with. Is there no way Morgaine could have gracefully or ungracefully bowed out of the arrangement? Couldn't she have immediately said she couldn't marry him because she'd already pledged herself to his son?
54) I was actually surprised that Morgaine was open to marriage. Was anyone else?
55) So what do you think of Morgaine's light bulb moment? Do you think it was the karmic lesson she needs to learn? If not, do you see something that is? "If you would have the message of the Gods to direct your life, look for that which repeats, again and again; for this is the message given you by the Gods, the karmic lesson you must learn for this incarnation. It comes again and again until you have made it part of your soul and your enduring spirit." I think the karmic message would be not to let others manipulate your life, but that's just me. lol
56) Some interesting remarks being made...
“He wears the serpents,” Niniane said.
“That may mean much or little,” Kevin said. “You should know that—” And although the words were innocent, Niniane felt their sting; a priestess who bore the crescent on her brow might be a Viviane—or no more than she herself.
and
“I wonder, sometimes, if that can ever be done—if we have all spent our lives within a dream without reality.”
That last statement made me recall that ominous statement from the fairy at the beginning of the book. Do you remember? “Cast out your child, then, or strangle him at birth, Morgaine of the Fairies, for your people have their own fate" Does that suggest Avalon's fate is not what Morgaine wants or thinks? That coupled with the statement that seemed at one point to be drilled into us about all gods are one and all goddesses were one as well makes me wonder--Do/did Morgaine and Viviane make too much of Arthur taking up the Christian banner and setting aside the Pendragon? Why hasn't someone held Arthur accountable for breaking his oath?
Questions and Comments for April 10th; Chapters 13 - 17/Pages 397 - 44939) You know, for a moment there I thought I was reading one of the books in the Game of Thrones series. A threesome? Dear goodness, I did not expect that. Anyone else? I can't see how that will end well.
That’s not how I thought it would go either. And I don’t see it ending well as well, Gwenhwyfar weighted by shame and guilt might double down on her effort to destroy all things non-Christian.
40) I can't believe Morgaine hasn't checked or inquired about her son. I want to know how the little tyke is doing.
I suppose Morgaine believed her son was well cared for while she had a pressing matter of Arthur’s betrayal to investigate. I think we’ll hear from him soon enough.
41) The 5 years Morgaine was gone is kind of creepy. She can only account for a few days. She could have had kids in that amount of time and never know it. I am totally shocked she couldn't reenter Avalon. Will she end up taking Viviane's place?
Time flows differently in the land of fairies, perhaps to her it didn’t just feel like just a few days, but was days. I don’t understand though how her dress got so worn down while she remained the same.
She couldn’t find the hidden path to Avalon, but chose not to call for the barge. I think she might return when she finds her peace of mind although it could take a long time.
42) It sounds like Arthur will be punished for this denouncing Avalon and breaking his vow. I wonder what Viviane will do or will it be Morgaine? What if his and Morgaine's son is the cost? Would they kill him?
I think Arthur will lose the support of Avalon and his breaking of the oath will drive two realms apart. I don’t think they will kill his son, but I’m sure he has a part to play, the fairy woman warned Morgaine about his destiny.
43) I wonder what it was that Morgaine saw in her brief sight of Kevin burning? Do you think it was his death?
Possibly, but hopefully not.
Sonia's and Lisarenee's Questions and comments for Book 3 The King Stag: Ch 01-07(view spoiler)
Questions and comments for April 13th; Chapters 8 - 10/Pages 555 - 600
(view spoiler)
Questions and comments for April 14th; Book 3 The King Stag / Book 4 The Prisoner in the Oak; Chapters 11 - 01/Pages 600 - 66357)I was never a fan of Gwenhwyfar. She imposed her faith upon Arthur. Tricked Morgaine into marriage and now wants Lancelet's son for heir instead of Arthur's. And defends that a woman should obey her king, criticizing Morgause and Morgaine, while all the time she manipulates her husband to her whims. Am I the only one that wants to see her pay for what she has done?
58)Were you surprised that Elaine kept her vow? How can a mother choose to keep her husband instead of her child?
59)Gwydion resembles Lancelet? That will not sit well with Arthur and his Queen.
60)Gwydion is so cold. The way he talked about Arthur and Morgaine... This book is getting darker and darker. Don't you agree?
61)Morgaine was given some hard tasks. Retrieve Excalibur, put Accolon in the throne. Do you think she'll be able to complete them?
Questions and Comments for April 15th; Chapters 2 - 6/pages 663 - 72162) Morgaine said she'd never kill for the Goddess yet she kills her stepson. Avalloch was not a great guy by any means, but still... What are your thoughts on this? Did she do what needed to be done?
63) Interesting how we now have had two Kingmakings. One for Gwydion and one for Accolon, but neither is King. How can that work?
64) Morgaine was my favorite character until this section. What happened to her? Why did she tell of Elaine's role in the plan to have Lancelet marry her?
65) What did you think of the song Lancelet sang and Gwenhwyfar's reaction?
66) What did you make of Gwydion's challenge of Lancelet? He's a sneaky one isn't he? So Gwydion has Lancelet's good looks, Morgaine's brain, and Morgauses' ambition, and Arthur's charm. That should be a winning combination, right? Do you think if Viviane or Morgaine had raised him he'd have been a force to reckon with?
Phew this was a long one and timed perfectly with the start of the other book.Sonia's and Lisarenee's Questions and comments for Book 3 The King Stag: Ch 01-07
44)What did you think of Gwydion's little manipulation? The way he has everybody wrapped under his finger scared me. Not to mention the way his mind works.
I suppose he has some of the most brilliant minds as his gene pool. He seems like he'd be a pain to raise.
45)I was surprised with Lancelet's admissions. Who would imagine that he would confess to Morgaine?
Lancelet seems to be a bad drunk. He does all sorts of bad things when he's drunk.
46)Gwenhwyfar discovers about Morgaine's son. I am disliking this maneuvers so much that I would prefer that Gareth had spoken in front of the king himself. I would like to see Arthur's reaction.
It seems strange to me that no one mentioned it before in front of Arthur. You'd think it would have come up sometime in the past 10 or so years.
47)It looks Gwydion was a backup plan all along just in case Arthur didn't keep his vows. Can Viviane be so detached?
I think she has to be when playing with so many lives. It's almost like a military commander can't concern himself with each individual unit since he knows some must die he just tries to minimize casualties overall. (Or perhaps an ER doc who doesn't see the patients as people so much as a coping mechanism.)
48)Viviane's death was shocking. I confess I had to read the same paragraph twice to believe what was happening. Thoughts?
It seemed really sudden. She had just come back into the story line and poof. It must take a lot of guts to murder the kings relative in front of him. I'm surprised that Arthur didn't order his death. It seems like a death row type of offense.
49)Where you surprise with Kevin allowing Viviane to be buried on Christian soil? Maybe that burning by traitor's death Morgaine foresaw wasn't quite so out of the question. Was the wrong man chosen to succeed the previous Merlin?
It seems weird that he's turning his back on Avalon now. I wonder if he got scorned and is taking it out on the world now. It seems strange that he's so cruel to Morgaine now even though she was a friend to him.
50)How over confident or foolish Gwenhwyfar is. After Meleagrant's actions on the king's hall, how can she still think it wise to go to him without an armed escort?
Gwen doesn't seem very smart. She seems pretty manipulative as of this point. I hate how she keeps whining until she gets her way.
51)Thoughts about Elaine and Morgaine's pact?
Everyone kept trying to get them married off so I guess... it seems like it's a good way to breed resentment and hatred in people though.
Questions and comments for April 14th; Book 3 The King Stag / Book 4 The Prisoner in the Oak; Chapters 11 - 01/Pages 600 - 663(view spoiler)
Questions and Comments for April 15th; Chapters 2 - 6/pages 663 - 721
(view spoiler)
Sonia's and Lisarenee's Questions and comments for Book 3 The King Stag: Ch 01-0744)What did you think of Gwydion's little manipulation? The way he has everybody wrapped under his finger scared me. Not to mention the way his mind works.
He is an old soul, knows a lot, but is still immature.
45)I was surprised with Lancelet's admissions. Who would imagine that he would confess to Morgaine?
Didn't expect that.
46)Gwenhwyfar discovers about Morgaine's son. I am disliking this maneuvers so much that I would prefer that Gareth had spoken in front of the king himself. I would like to see Arthur's reaction.
Wonder what Gwen will do with this knowledge.
47)It looks Gwydion was a backup plan all along just in case Arthur didn't keep his vows. Can Viviane be so detached?
For the good of the people not the person.
48)Viviane's death was shocking. I confess I had to read the same paragraph twice to believe what was happening. Thoughts?
I drifted off during the vital paragraph, then thought I'd missed a whole chapter and went back an forth a couple of times until I worked out what happened. Very unexpected, but looking back I understand.
49)Where you surprise with Kevin allowing Viviane to be buried on Christian soil? Maybe that burning by traitor's death Morgaine foresaw wasn't quite so out of the question. Was the wrong man chosen to succeed the previous Merlin?
Kevin is trying to keep everyone happy, but that only makes noone happy. I can see both sides and both have valid points. i'm glad I didn't have to decide.
50)How over confident or foolish Gwenhwyfar is. After Meleagrant's actions on the king's hall, how can she still think it wise to go to him without an armed escort?
Don't think this will work out like Gwen expects. Very naive and too trusting - but I can be like that sometimes too, so I understand.
51)Thoughts about Elaine and Morgaine's pact?
Will make Elaine happy.
Questions and comments for April 13th; Chapters 8 - 10/Pages 555 - 60052) So at the very beginning of this section Morgaine thinks to herself, "no man could escape fate (...) No woman either." Yet isn't that what the Ladies of Avalon seem to be doing--trying to change people's fates? The story about Oedipus doesn't seem that far off from some of the things we've seen. When Morgaine sees things with her sight, do you think they're set in stone or can she change them? Do you think they can be altered in any way? So far Morgaine's predicted three deaths and a birth--
Gareth's (Morgause's youngest son) death -- “There will be peace,” Morgaine said absently, “but it will not matter, for he will die at the hands of his dearest friend—"
Kevin's death (perhaps by her own hand) -- "Death! Death by burning! What did it mean? Not even the worst of traitors died that death . . . or had she seen only what had befallen him when he was lamed as a boy? Brief as the moment of Sight had been, it left her shaken, as if she herself had spoken the word that would deliver him to his death."
Viviane's (I think) death -- “Blood on the hearth—” Morgaine stammered. “See, there, there, just before the King’s high seat, slain there like a slaughtered sheep before the King ."
Lancelet's son's birth by Elaine -- "You will bear Lancelet children, for I have seen his son . . .” and she stopped, feeling her skin prickle all the way up her spine, as when the Sight came upon her. Elaine’s blue eyes were wide with wonder. She could almost hear Elaine’s thought, So it is true then, and I will have Lancelet for husband and give him children. . . . Yes, it is true, though I did not know it until I spoke ."
Do you think she can or could alter any of this?
Maybe the visions aren't a warning, but a message of what is meant to be, and if it doesn't happen, then something has gone wrong.
53) This section actually made me intensely dislike Gwenhwyfar for setting up Morgaine to marry Uriens when it was his son, Accolan, Morgaine wanted to be with. Is there no way Morgaine could have gracefully or ungracefully bowed out of the arrangement? Couldn't she have immediately said she couldn't marry him because she'd already pledged herself to his son?
She should have clarified names before saying yes. Some payback from Gwen for marrying off Lancelet out of her reach.
54) I was actually surprised that Morgaine was open to marriage. Was anyone else?
Only if she met the right man, which is who she thought they were takling about. I was surprised to see her act all coy and blushy.
55) So what do you think of Morgaine's light bulb moment? Do you think it was the karmic lesson she needs to learn? If not, do you see something that is? "If you would have the message of the Gods to direct your life, look for that which repeats, again and again; for this is the message given you by the Gods, the karmic lesson you must learn for this incarnation. It comes again and again until you have made it part of your soul and your enduring spirit." I think the karmic message would be not to let others manipulate your life, but that's just me. lol
Hmm, karmic lesson - sleep with your close male relatives...to spite the Christian principles? Don't judge yourself by Christian principles because you are a druid? Not sure what the message is.
56) Some interesting remarks being made...
“He wears the serpents,” Niniane said.
“That may mean much or little,” Kevin said. “You should know that—” And although the words were innocent, Niniane felt their sting; a priestess who bore the crescent on her brow might be a Viviane—or no more than she herself.
and
“I wonder, sometimes, if that can ever be done—if we have all spent our lives within a dream without reality.”
That last statement made me recall that ominous statement from the fairy at the beginning of the book. Do you remember? “Cast out your child, then, or strangle him at birth, Morgaine of the Fairies, for your people have their own fate" Does that suggest Avalon's fate is not what Morgaine wants or thinks? That coupled with the statement that seemed at one point to be drilled into us about all gods are one and all goddesses were one as well makes me wonder--Do/did Morgaine and Viviane make too much of Arthur taking up the Christian banner and setting aside the Pendragon? Why hasn't someone held Arthur accountable for breaking his oath?
Vivien was planning to hold Arthur accountable, but died before she did. No one has been continuing with her work, so it still hasn't happened.
The Fairy also said that Morgaines son would try to do good, but do only harm and that Arthur would die and be cast down in turn.
Sorry to be late. I has this huge migraine last night and reading or even thinking were near impossible tasks.Questions and Comments for April 16th; Chapters 7 - 9/pages 721 - 774
67)Morgaine is pregnant again? That was a surprise. I'm wonder what her future will be.
68)Kevin is still looking unworthy of his role as Merlin. First he allowed Viviane to be burried under Christian rites. Now he disapproves Morgaine wanted to take back Excalibur?
69)Her vision of Accolon and Arthur was incomplete. What will be the end of it. Will Arthur blame her for treason?
70)"Accolon was dead and her plans in ruins. Arthur still bore the sword Excalibur and the enchanted scabbard which gave him a charmed life, and since the one to whom she had entrusted that task had failed her, escaping into death where she could not follow, then she herself must be the hand of Avalon to strike him down."
Do you think that Avalon was condemned from the start? All the oaths and prayers and tasks seem to fail and bring nothing but tears and suffering to those who tried to follow the path.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
The Firebrand (other topics)A Dance with Dragons (other topics)
A Game of Thrones (other topics)
The Mists of Avalon (other topics)
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18)As Lisarenee predicted, the ritual was something violent. But the morning after was really sweet. At least till they recognize each other. With so many maidens available, why did Viviane have to choose her?
The family line.
19)Thoughts about Kevin and the meeting with the current and future Merlin and Lady of Avalon?
Interesting.
20)And the boy who takes the sword from the stone shall be king. Not Excalibur, as in the Disney version, but the Pendragon one. What do you think about all the symbolism in the book?
Not sure. I wish I had read the original tale.
21)Arthur seems just like a regular boy. And he's supposed to fight Saxons and unite Britain?
There has been boy leaders in the past. It is possible.
22)What do you think about Morgause, Morgaine and Ingraine's reaction to each other?
There is a bit of bitterness there.
23)"But if Avalon was no longer home to her, what then?"
Signs of hard times to come?
Yep.
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