All About Books discussion
The Monday Poem (old)
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Our Spring Poet: Robert Frost (20th March - 20th June)
One of my favorite poets! Looking forward to this :)
The only poet that I remember reading and learning about in high school. Loved his poem "The Road Not Taken".
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They are chosen by me Alannah. A few months back, I've asked for opinions on how to come up with a seasonal poet and the consensus was that people preferred for me to choose. However this particular choice for spring was largely influenced by a conversation I had with Gill about Robert Frost, and by the fact that his name came up more than once in this group. I am happy for suggestions though if you have any.
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I will keep that in mind.
Of the collections in the public domain, I will recommend Mountain Interval (also known as The Road Not Taken and Other Poems) as having many of his well-known poems.
I have a book on my kindle of poems by Robert Frost which contains the poems fromA Boy's Will and North of Boston plus Mountain Interval. I'm looking forward to this.
Looking forward to this one. One of my goals for this year is to read more poetry.
I've checked out Poetry and Prose and Selected Poems by him. Really looking forward to finally be getting to know his poetry better.
Just wanted to share this short poem of Frost's (copied from: http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets/...)
Fire and Ice by Robert Frost
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favour fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
I have checked out Complete Poems Of Robert Frost from the library - it is big (over 650 pages!!). I have already read some of these, but it is a bit daunting.I ended up deciding to read each day a poem (or two) from the beginning (actually I am starting with New Hampshire as I have read most of the earlier ones), the middle, and from near the end so that I don't only see one period in his writing.
I've started reading Mountain Interval. And so far I really like his style! Some poems seem more like a short story, I think.I'm also reading Emily Dickinson Poems, which are more difficult, I think. Most poems I have to read several times and sometimes I don't even make sense of them then! They are very deep.
It is nice to read poems which are so very different.
I haven't read poems in ages, so I think it is nice to join you with this. And get to know some writers which I didn't know before...
Great to have you join us Elsbeth! I too would like to read more of Emily Dickinson's poetry, the few that I've read by her I truly love.I am reading Selected Poems and really like the fact that it allows me to see how his poetry developed from the early to the late poet.
Interestingly, his very early poems speak much about ancient and not so ancient heroes, about battles, about courage and strenght. In short about all of those things that a boy who's not yet a man will stereotypically dream of and measure his own worth by.
Currently, I am in the middle of a selection of his first published collection of poems 'A Boy's Will' and romance, love (both heard and unheard) moves into the foreground.
I think unlike a lot of people struggeling with the crypticness (I just made up a noun me thinks ;) of poetry, my struggle usually begins when a poem seems too straight forward. My brain sort of ends up slipping off the surface of something that I foolishly think I've decoded on first sight. So reading Frosts poetry bares an interesting challenge. His poetry may seem very straight forward on first sight, easily digestible also by the use of metre and rhyme, yet I've realized quickly that it is quite a mistake to stop there, since one would end up missing half the poem. His poetry reminds me a bit of those movies that can be watched purely for pleasure and entertainment, but if you want more there's numerous layers underneath one can occupy one's mind with for days.
:) it was either that or 'crypticality' LOL.
I am one of the (many) people who find cryptic language in poems threatening (note I cleverly avoided using the noun instead putting it into adjective form!). I guess that I am lazy, because those poems just seem like work to me -- if I can't enjoy it and understand it on a superficial level then I am not motivated to dig deeper.However, for a poet such as Frost, I like many of the poems enough that digging deeper, looking into context or pondering over possible metaphors, is interesting rather than a chore.
Of course, I start with an advantage over you Jenny, as Frost describes things from my area of the world and refers to characteristics that I grew up with, so I have a more substantial frame of reference than you would.
Jean wrote: "Jenny - http://datrippers.com/2009/09/09/cryp... LOL"Wow!! And I thought scientists were bad writers!
I love the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon at the end too :)
LOL Leslie are you calling me a masochist?! ;) I see what you mean entirely, and I strongly dislike poetry that is trying really hard to be cryptic for no other reason than to look smart, but I do enjoy poetry working with imagery that might have an immediate resonance with me somehow, eventhough I don't yet really know what it is speaking of. And Jean: that article made my head ache!!! ;) Serves me well for claiming I have high tolerance for crypticality.;) Which leads me to the question: so the noun really exists?! I couldn't find it in any dictionary but then maybe I didn't look hard enough?
It's amazing isn't it? I assume the point is that "crypticality" is an unnecessary synonym for "crypticness". Back on topic (sort of, as I haven't started this yet!) and thinking of your point about having a frame of reference, Leslie, I have to confess that for a very long time I thought Robert Frost was English! *hangs head in shame* because of poems such as:
Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening
(I have linked here to the whole poem, which is reprinted with permission by "The Poetry Foundation".)
He did spend several years in England and his first book of poetry (A Boy's Will) was published while he was still living there. If that poem seems English to you, then England and New England must have more similarities in their natural environment than I thought! :)
Thanks for the info, Leslie! I've always thought I might like New England :)
Leslie, I assume your complete poems are in publication order of collection as well? Does it tell you which collection you are at? And if so, which one are you at? (good grief, that was a long winding road to a question ;)
Here's a link to the website of 'The Friends of Dymock Poets':http://www.dymockpoets.org.uk/index.html
It has links to information about the various Dymock Poets
This is where Frost lived for some of his time in England. As you can see the group included, in addition to Frost, amongst others, Edward Thomas (who is a big favourite of mine) and Rupert Brooke.
Thanks Gill. Yes, Chris was talking about Edward Thomas just after I posted my "confession" ! :D
Jenny wrote: "Leslie, I assume your complete poems are in publication order of collection as well? Does it tell you which collection you are at? And if so, which one are you at? (good grief, that was a long wind..."Yes, it is in publication order & does identify the collections but as I mentioned earlier, I am dipping into it at several places at once (I am using 4 different bookmarks!!). I am reading from New Hampshire, West-Running Brook, A Further Range and A Witness Tree.
I had assumed that I would prefer the earlier poems but I am finding the poems from A Witness Tree delightful - that is where I got that one about philosophy. I am not as fond of the longer poems such as In the Home Stretch - really they are short stories told in verse! They remind me somewhat of O. Henry, of whom I am not a fan.
btw, don't be fooled by the name of the book as this was published in 1947 so I am pretty sure that he wrote poems after that date! Although this edition was from 1964 and has a preface by Frost so maybe they added to it as time went on?
My Robert Frost book was due back to the library today. I read about 3/4 of it, skimmed some of the rest. I am glad that I jumped around and found several new poems of his to add to my list of favorites.
I am slowly advancing in time and therefore in the book, still on the selection of the first published collection of his, and his poetry slowly grows more complex, so what I initially said about the straigtforwardness of his poetry (those where his very early poems) is already a bit less true. They are increasingly layered.
I found this interesting, from the Poetry Foundation…"Critics frequently point out that Frost complicated his problem and enriched his style by setting traditional meters against the natural rhythms of speech. Drawing his language primarily from the vernacular, he avoided artificial poetic diction by employing the accent of a soft-spoken New Englander. In The Function of Criticism, Yvor Winters faulted Frost for his "endeavor to make his style approximate as closely as possible the style of conversation." But what Frost achieved in his poetry was much more complex than a mere imitation of the New England farmer idiom. He wanted to restore to literature the "sentence sounds that underlie the words," the "vocal gesture" that enhances meaning. That is, he felt the poet's ear must be sensitive to the voice in order to capture with the written word the significance of sound in the spoken word. "The Death of the Hired Man," for instance, consists almost entirely of dialogue between Mary and Warren, her farmer-husband, but critics have observed that in this poem Frost takes the prosaic patterns of their speech and makes them lyrical. To Ezra Pound "The Death of the Hired Man" represented Frost at his best—when he "dared to write ... in the natural speech of New England; in natural spoken speech, which is very different from the 'natural' speech of the newspapers, and of many professors.""
Underlining was my emphasis. I think the whole article in the above link is worth reading for those who are interested in an analysis of his poems.
I guess that the New England voice is one reason that I identify so well with Frost's poems! It is the voice of the people I grew up with, and especially the sound of my father's family (who had a farm in Maine).
Jenny, this made me think of you!From William H. Pritchard on Frost (http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/...)
"…and surely Meiklejohn congratulated himself just a bit on making the right choice, taking the less traveled road and inviting a poet to join the Amherst College faculty.
What the president could hardly have imagined, committed as he was in high seriousness to making the life of the college truly an intellectual one, was the unruliness of Frost's spirit and its unwillingness to be confined within the formulas - for Meiklejohn, they were the truths - of the "liberal college." On the first day of the new year, 1917, just preparatory to moving his family down from the Franconia farm into a house in Amherst, Frost wrote Untermeyer about where the fun lay in what he, Frost, thought of as "intellectual activity":
You get more credit for thinking if you restate formulae or cite cases that fall in easily under formulae, but all the fun is outside saying things that suggest formulae that won't formulate - that almost but don't quite formulate. I should like to be so subtle at this game as to seem to the casual person altogether obvious. The casual person would assume I meant nothing or else I came near enough meaning something he was familiar with to mean it for all practical purposes. Well, well, well."
So you are better at the game than I am! :D
Thanks Leslie, he made me chuckle there!
This is my first post to a Goodreads group - don't really know what I'm doing; but I think this stanza from "A Prayer in Spring" illustrates what Frost does so well:Oh, give us pleasure in the flowers to-day;
And give us not to think so far away
As the uncertain harvest; keep us here
All simply in the springing of the year.
The poetry on the surface is very simple but it resonates with deeper, larger meaning - a hallmark of great poetry.
Hi and welcome Timothy - you're doing just fine :) That's a great stanza to pick.Maybe you'd like to hop on to the Welcome/Member Introductions thread to tell us all a little about yourself?
Glad you are joining us Timothy! I will see if my selection of poetry has the poem you've mentioned, I very much like the stanza you've quoted.
Thanks Jenny and Jean. I’m feeling more comfortable already. I didn’t think of this till just this moment, but I really don’t know how much of a poet’s work you can include in a forum like this without copyright infringement. I understand about reviews, but this may be different. I don’t know. It seems that a poet (or his estate) would want the exposure, if they cared at all. Any help would be appreciated.
About “crypticness,” I heard it’s a disease, apparently pretty rare, which afflicts mainly certain poets.
The poems I have read so far, are Frost' s early poems from A Boy's Will. I actually don't find them very good. I am looking forward to the next section which is North of Boston.
Timothy wrote: "Thanks Jenny and Jean. I’m feeling more comfortable already. I didn’t think of this till just this moment, but I really don’t know how much of a poet’s work you can include in a forum like this w..."
Timothy, we've had a long discussion about this a while back in the previous thread for Anna Akhmatova, because we too felt rather torn by it. Technically poems aren't public domain until author or translator (if the latter applies) are dead for at least 70 years. I've summarized the 'copyright-jungle' in this thread here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/..., the thread also explaines about how much we do or don't want to dictate a group policy for how people chose the poetry they post.
Hope that helps?
I believe the stanza you've posted is on the safe side though! ;)
Oh, so now I've started the volume North of Boston, I've come to one of my favourite poems by Frost 'Mending Walls'. Here's a link to it:http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88...
Thanks again Jenny - your response was very helpful. I think I can proceed appropriately.Here are the first two lines from Frost's "The Last Mowing."
There's a place called Faraway Meadow
We never shall mow in again,
Are these lines to simple? For me they echo with meaning far beyond the simple surface.
Frost has been said to be the poet who hides the most, while appearing so obvious. To me he is not so much hiding as using some sort of magic by which he conveys so much more that he says.
Timothy, I think you've put it very well. I think the quality you describe is what made him so popular with such a wide readership and amongst critics as well.@Gill, your post made me chuckle, as I've started reading the 'North of Boston' section in my selection of his poetry and was about to express some enthusiasm for 'Mending Walls' and 'Death of a Hired Man'. It feels like a major leap from 'A Boy's Will'. Personally, this is the poetry that resonates with me most so far, and I am admiring how all of this is almost like a short story, a dialog or monologue, with perfect rhythm. Natural enough to mirror natural speech, and masterfully crafted enough to balance it with what I've read is called an 'iambic pentameter' meter. (Which reminds me that I've been meaning to study form of poetry or refresh existing knowledge for a while now.)
I am also deeply impressed how Frost performs a perfect split (I am talking gymnastics here) inbetween formal traditionalism and modernism in these poems.
When I was 14, we studied 'Mending Wall' in my English Class. The teacher had a student read it out loud and she read it with such simplicity and emotion. I fell in love with Frost that day. I'm reading'North of Boston' right now. I like how he subtly explores loneliness in many of these poems.
This thread seems to be getting a little cold, unfortunately. My favorite poem of Frost's is "After Apple Picking" (even though I only partly understand it).For I have had too much
Of apple-picking: I am overtired
Of the great harvest I myself desired.
There were ten thousand thousand fruit to touch,
Cherish in hand, lift down, and not let fall.
For all
That struck the earth,
No matter if not bruised or spiked with stubble,
Went surely to the cider-apple heap
As of no worth.
I love these lines - again the great condensing of meaning.
This 3 months period is soon to end - can one suggest a poet for the next three months? I should probably know, but I don't.
Timothy wrote: "This 3 months period is soon to end - can one suggest a poet for the next three months? I should probably know, but I don't."Well, a bit over a month more! But certainly feel free to make suggestions.
I like the apple picking image; it is a great metaphor for so many things. It could even be referring to a poet getting tired of picking out the right words to use after much long and weary thought!
More of Frost from "Neither Out Far Nor In Deep"The people along the sand
All turn and look one way.
They turn their back on the land.
They look at the sea all day.
............
They cannot look out far.
They cannot look in deep.
But when was that ever a bar
To any watch they keep?
Is he not the best poet America has produced? at least in the 20th century?
Leslie wrote: "Timothy wrote: "This 3 months period is soon to end - can one suggest a poet for the next three months? I should probably know, but I don't."Well, a bit over a month more! But certainly feel fre..."
Sorry, I got the dates mixed up. I was thinking March 1 through May 31. But since it's OK to suggest, I would love to have attention brought to a much neglected poet of the early 20th century, Charlotte Mew. She was highly regarded in her time, but has slipped, unaccountably, almost out of site.
I've thought much the same about the metaphor as pertains to Frost himself.
Thanks Leslie
Timothy, I'm afraid I'm being a bit remiss about posting in this thread. However I am carrying on with reading the poems. I'll make sure I post something during the next few days.
Gill wrote: "Timothy, I'm afraid I'm being a bit remiss about posting in this thread. However I am carrying on with reading the poems. I'll make sure I post something during the next few days."I look forward to reading your post.
All About Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Mountain Interval (other topics)North of Boston (other topics)
The Road Not Taken (other topics)
You Come Too (other topics)
You Come Too (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Robert Frost (other topics)Robert Frost (other topics)
Edward Thomas (other topics)
Edward Thomas (other topics)
Rupert Brooke (other topics)
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Short Bio:
Robert Lee Frost (March 26, 1874 in San Francisco, California, – January 29, 1963 in Boston, Massachusetts) was an American poet. He is highly regarded for his realistic depictions of rural life and his command of American colloquial speech. His work frequently employed settings from rural life in New England in the early twentieth century, using them to examine complex social and philosophical themes. One of the most popular and critically respected American poets of the twentieth century, Frost was honored frequently during his lifetime, receiving four Pulitzer Prizes for Poetry. He became one of America's rare "public literary figures, almost an artistic institution." He was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal in 1960 for his poetical works
One of his most famous poems might be "The Road Not Taken"("Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-/ I took the one less traveled by") and a quote by him that never fails to make me laugh ( though I entirely and whole-heartedly disagree !!) is an analogy regarding free verse in poetry: "I'd just as soon play tennis with the net down!"
For a longer and more detailed biography and some more of his poems you can check out Poetry Foundation