{January} A Question of Upbringing

[Sunny]

I agree - he's showing us the story instead of telling us. :)

[Cheryl]

Teresa wrote: "was just looking up If Winter Comes, the name of the novel Jenkins is reading when Widmerpool warns him about reading popular novels. According to wiki, it was written by the British novelist A. S. M. Hutchinson and according to the New York Times, it was the best-selling book in the U.S. for all of 1922...."
If Winter Comes can be read online or downloaded as an ebook, courtesy of Project Gutenberg

[Janet]

Kalliope wrote: "There is certainly an ominous feeling about Widmerpool..."

Along with the ominous feeling about Widmerpool I get the same feeling about Quiggin and hope that he gets fleshed out more in succeeding books.

[Cheryl]

This is a claustrophobic cramped and repressive world of men only. Women barely impinge on their consciousness, they seem to have no role, no function

[Algernon (Darth Anyan)]

I think there is a reason for this : the first book deals with the school days of Jenkins, an isolated, all-male environment that ill prepares the boys for living in the real world. I noticed in particular how Jenkins seems clueless on how to talk and how to act around girls his own age.

[Manny]

Indeed, this is an accurate representation of life at an English public school. From book 2 onwards, women become increasingly important to the story.

[Kalliope]

I agree with Algernon and Manny... it seems entirely intended.. and against this young immature male world, Ladies do figure so much more prominently - like the mysterious and elusive Mrs Foxe.

[Damaskcat]

Kalliope wrote: "I have just received Invitation To the Dance: A Handbook to Anthony Powell's A Dance to the Music of Time, and it is not at all what I expected.

It has the format of a Dictionary and..."

I found it very useful but I think I have a different opinion of spoilers - especially with sagas like Dance. I think it would be impossible to write a handbook such as this without including spoilers.

[Damaskcat]

Nigeyb wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "I think Invitation To the Dance: A Handbook to Anthony Powell's A Dance to the Music of Time is a waste. Not recommended."


I found it very useful as i worked throug..."

So do I.

[Manny]

Kalliope wrote: "I agree with Algernon and Manny... it seems entirely intended.. and against this young immature male world, Ladies do figure so much more prominently - like the mysterious and elusive Mrs Foxe."

Keep an eye on Mrs Foxe - the way her character develops is very interesting...

[Diane]

I also noticed the strange non-role of women, except as mysterious creatures on the fringes of Jenkins consciousness, but the explanation here makes sense. Stringham and Templer are a bit older, and you see them using women differently.

[Kalliope]

Damaskcat wrote: "Kalliope wrote: "I have just received Invitation To the Dance: A Handbook to Anthony Powell's A Dance to the Music of Time, and it is not at all what I expected.

It has the format of..."

Since I think this saga will warrant a second read, then the Dictionary-Companion will be useful then.. for the moment I prefer not to use it..

[Kalliope]

Diane wrote: "I also noticed the strange non-role of women, except as mysterious creatures on the fringes of Jenkins consciousness, but the explanation here makes sense. Stringham and Templer are a bit older, an..."

Temples seems to be 'using' women a bit more than Stringham... as for Jenkins, it is amusing to see how his mind seems to be 'disrupted' by the presence of young women... clearly new in his life secluded to the male...

[Kalliope]

Manny wrote: "Keep an eye on Mrs Foxe - the way her character develops is very interesting...
.."

oh, oh... looking forward to continue with this.... her name is already a tickler...

[Cynthia]

I just finished and I'm very pleased at how good it was. I've owned it for so long and was reticent to begin so I'm glad this group was formed.

[Diane]

I feel the same, Cynthia. I'm ready for book 2, but am glad we're taking the whole year to read the entire series.

[Connie]

Mark Members, the student poet, was supposed to be based on Roy Broadbent Fuller (1912-91), an English poet, novelist, and writer. Anthony Powell dedicated the eighth book of the Dance to him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Fuller

[Kim]

My copy just arrived. El Niño is providing us with many rainy days and nights, perfect excuse to stay in curled up with a classic book and a cup of tea. I am looking forward to the journey with you all, this has been on my "tbr" for a very long time. I am going to investigate the audio book, just starting to use them as alternatives, allows me to knit, or do counted cross stitch while I am still progressing with the story. Thanks for all the information on the Simon Vance narration. I just found the Alan Rickman reading of The Return of the Native, and want to get that. I loved Hardy in high school and college, wrote my big English paper on The Return of the Native as a senior in HS, our teacher famously only gave one "A" per class for the paper, and so it was a big competition among my friends. I really wanted that "A", and I think my love for the book came through...a good friend did hers on the Book of Job. I ended up with the "A" and my friend got an "A-", it was the first time our teacher ever bent her rule. I think I will enjoy revisiting the book along with remembering the fabulous Alan Rickman's life work at the same time somewhere down the road. Right now, it is on to Anthony Powell and the first book of the first movement. Cheers!

[Sue]

I finished Book 1 over the weekend and am glad of a break to catch up with other reading, to be honest. I'm enjoying this book very much. His eye for other people's foibles and eccentricities (and his own perhaps youthful inexperience) is so clever and so much fun to read. I'm looking forward to Book 2.

[Sunny]

I might need a handbook after all - I'm only on chapter 3 right now, and I couldn't for the life of me come up with what the Akworth scandal was.

[Teresa]

Travelling Sunny wrote: "I might need a handbook after all - I'm only on chapter 3 right now, and I couldn't for the life of me come up with what the Akworth scandal was."

I don't think we know yet. I paged back thinking I'd missed something, but unless someone tells me otherwise, it has to be foreshadowing.

[Cheryl]

Travelling Sunny wrote: "I might need a handbook after all - I'm only on chapter 3 right now, and I couldn't for the life of me come up with what the Akworth scandal was."
on p 13 (of the First Movement pb), Stringham relates that Templer blamed Widmerpool for getting Akworth sacked, for sending a note to Peter Templer which was intercepted by Widmerpool, who showed it to Le Bas. They don't say explicitly what the contents were, but it caused Widmerpool to lecture Peter about morals. So perhaps it was about a homosexual relationship between Akworth and Templer?

[Sunny]

The only thing I found was a reference in chapter 1... Widmerpool intercepted a note from Akworth to Templer (I think) and reported it to Le Bas, which resulted in Akworth being dismissed from school.

Jenkins himself narrated that he only vaguely remembered Akworth, as he was dismissed shortly after Jenkins started at the school.

[Teresa]

Cheryl wrote: "on p 13 (of the First Movement pb), Stringham relates that Templer blamed Widmerpool for getting Akworth sacked, for sending a note to Peter Templer which was intercepted by Widmerpool, who showed it to Le Bas.."

Ah, thank you, Cheryl! My memory has not been too good these past few months. ;) But I do remember that a potential homosexual relationship is what I suspected when I read that.

[Renato]

Oh wow I totally missed the potential homosexual relationship...

[Sunny]

Renato wrote: "Oh wow I totally missed the potential homosexual relationship..."

Me too.

[Renato]

Spoilers! :P

[Connie]

Renato wrote: "Spoilers! :P"

I'll remove my comment in case it revealed too much.

[Sunny]

Chapter 3 Question - What is it about the picture of Widmerpool that is so inappropriate? Is there a description of it somewhere that I missed?

[Teresa]

Travelling Sunny wrote: "Chapter 3 Question - What is it about the picture of Widmerpool that is so inappropriate? Is there a description of it somewhere that I missed?"

It's mentioned as being 'suggestive', though no reason or description is given as to why it is. I believe that's all we know so far. Once again, if my memory is faulty, please someone let me know. :)

[Renato]

Connie wrote: "Renato wrote: "Spoilers! :P"

I'll remove my comment in case it revealed too much."

Thanks, Connie! It wasn't a big deal, really... but since it concerns a future volume, we might as well wait for Powell to tell us on his own time! :-)

[Renee]

Travelling Sunny wrote: "I only just finished chapter 2. It's peculiar how he keeps referencing his perception of events at the time, and alluding to the possibility that as we read further his perception or understanding ..."

I've only just finished Chapter 2 today. I agree that NJ seems to indicate that his perceptions/understanding will change. I like that. It makes sense that the sheltered boy would miss nuances and such which would become clear as he grows in experience. It's also part of what draws me in as a reader. :)

I finished Ch 2 this morning, then I dove into the commentary here, because I've been holding off until is read a bit of the novel. :) I love that others are making connections to the Forsyte Saga and Brideshead, because they've been shimmering around in my brain. Along with Of Human Bondage.

I'm not sure what to make of Widmerpoole yet. He didn't strike me as ominous but certainly as outcast, although I'm not sure why he should be. Maybe just for those semi-tangible reasons that rule social hierarchy everywhere. For all we know, he may turn out to be the best of the lot. Or hang himself.

I'm looking forward to the unfolding of all of their stories.

[Pixelina]

I just got about 15% left of the first book but I have to say that the whole french chapter was just too dragged out, especially the scandinavian quarrel, but perhaps some if it will come back later and be more insteresting.

[Sunny]

Finished Book 1. I liked the structure of the narrative, as it helped show the changing personalities and friendship-ties over a stretch of time. But, I would say I only three-star liked it. I had a particularly difficult time understanding most of the fourth and final chapter. The final few pages helped highlight the main points, but there must be some major differences between English and American schooling, in addition to the expected differences between how things were back in the early 20s and how they are today.

I'd love it if one of our members that is more knowledgeable could summarize what the heck was going on. I thought they had finished college, but then he went to Paris for... what? And now he's back, but not in college, he's in university? Those are two different things? I THINK they were discussing how some of the group went on to college and some went straight into careers, but I was really struggling to understand it. That, coupled with the introduction of I don't even KNOW how many new names just threw me for a loop. LOL!

But, I have purchased book 2 so I'm ready to continue next week. :)

Edited to add: And does anyone else see a similarity between Sillery and that teacher in the Harry Potter series who collects students - Professor Slughorn? I wonder if Slughorn's character was in some way inspired by Sillery's character?

[Renato]

Sunny, you got it right!

They were in school (last year it seems). After that Jenkins and Widmerpool were in France to study the language and then Jenkins went to university. And, like you said, some went to university, some went straight to jobs...

[Connie]

Sunny, the school that the boys were attending at the beginning of the book was a boarding high school modeled on Eton where Powell attended. This would compare to an elite private high school in the USA like Phillips Exeter Academy. (Americans call this type of school private school, but the British call them public schools so it's a bit confusing.)

[Teresa]

Travelling Sunny wrote: "Edited to add: And does anyone else see a similarity between Sillery and that teacher in the Harry Potter series who collects students - Professor Slughorn? I wonder if Slughorn's character was in some way inspired by Sillery's character?"

I started a biography of E.M. Forster and the account of one of the professors reminded me so much of Sillery that I had to google around to see if it was based on the same person. Nope, Forster went to Cambridge, while Powell went to Oxford. So my conclusion was that the Sillery-type is perhaps a fairly common one.

[Kalliope]

Travelling Sunny wrote: " I thought they had finished college, but then he went to Paris for... what? ..."


Sunny, he went to France during the summer, after finishing High School and before entering University, to improve his French. That is a very normal thing to do in Europe, and precisely at that time (between the two institutions), to work on one's foreign language skills.

[Sunny]

Thank you, everyone, for your insights!

[Darwin8u]

I should finish Movement 1/'A Question of Upbringing' today. Which reminds me, is there a standardized way of referring to these nested books within movements? If not I recommend seasons (Movement 1 would be Spring, no?) and months (so A Question of Upbringing would be March?).

Ah, it matters not. I'm just loving how controlled Powell's writing is.

[Nigeyb]

Darwin8u wrote: "Which reminds me, is there a standardized way of referring to these nested books within movements? If not I recommend seasons"

Exactly right!

Spring
A Question of Upbringing – (1951)
A Buyer's Market – (1952)
The Acceptance World – (1955)

Summer
At Lady Molly's – (1957)
Casanova's Chinese Restaurant – (1960)
The Kindly Ones – (1962)

Autumn
The Valley of Bones – (1964)
The Soldier's Art – (1966)
The Military Philosophers – (1968)

Winter
Books Do Furnish a Room – (1971)
Temporary Kings – (1973)
Hearing Secret Harmonies – (1975)

(dates are first UK publication dates)

[Renee]

Doing the head-smack right now. Of course, they're organized as seasons!

[Darwin8u]

Renee wrote: "Doing the head-smack right now. Of course, they're organized as seasons!"

Yeah, I knew from the Poussin Painting that was the general drift. Also, the 12 books in 4 movements was also a big hint.

But now I'm wondering if I should have waited until MARCH to start. I jest, but only sort of. Mainly, I didn't know if there was a standardized, SHORT way to refer to each book. Like scripture. M1:March; 1M:QoU, etc.

[Sue]

Renee, I'm doing the head smack right along with you!

[Renee]

Right? So obvious and yet *Head-Smack*

[Simon]

I just finished vol. 1 and I found its biggest strength is its biggest weakness: It's almost entirely about the relationships between its various characters. If that's its intended job to set up the characters for the remaining novels, it does it excellently and vividly.

But i missed Proust's introspection, here we learn very little about the narrator's thoughts (which in Proust mostly means remembering afterthoughts), and almost no musings about any ideas in the world (memory, art, love, jealousy, etc.) except characters.

So i also 3-star-liked it, but i'm still looking forward to the following, in whose context maybe this volume 1 shines more brightly as a knowing rereader.

[Renee]

Oh My God, Sunny! I just finished what I will now think of as the "Slughorn" section. Spot on! I wonder if Rowling read Powell or it's just a fairly ubiquitous situation found on the average public school campus?

[Diane]

In light of the fact that this section is the first of twelve, it's probably not fair to rate it on it's own. I enjoyed it, and, not having read Proust, cannot compare the two. I'm very much looking forward to the next part though.

[Jonathan]

Darwin8u wrote: "But now I'm wondering if I should have waited until MARCH to start. I jest, but only sort of. Mainly, I didn't know if there was a standardized, SHORT way to refer to each book. Like scripture. M1:March; 1M:QoU, etc. ."

I also wondered if a spring start was more appropriate.

I haven't actually started yet but I should be reading vol. 1 pretty soon. I've the feeling that I'll be running behind (the punishing) schedule on this group read.

[Simon]

i don't feel the schedule is that tight, most novels are closer to 200 than 300 pages, that's about 50-70 pages per week. I had to deliberately draw out my reading pace this month.