A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion
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08/16/15 - Chapter 29: Sansa II
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You know, I think you're right about your note on Sandor Clegane, about how it can't be his first time getting so drunk that he would spill his darkest secrets...he had to have been drunk before and NEVER told anyone else that, or else everyone would know -- you know how fast rumors spread in King's Landing. So why would he tell Sansa? To scare her? To pity him? To make her see reality of things? I'm thinking former at this point. Good point! 1. All of the kingsguard wore white only, but Ser Jaime also wore gold under his cloak, and had a lion's helm and a golden sword... The Lannisters are proud. He will not give up his heritage just because he's in the kingsguard. Arrogant.
2. Lord Yohn Royce had apparently guested at Winterfell two years ago...Curious for a House of the Vale to go out of his way to do so...He wears an ancient bronze armor with runes to protect him from harm. His heir is Ser Andar Royce, and Robar is his younger brother. Sounds like a big family. Too significant to be "throw-away" characters, if you ask me.
3. Apparently Lord Jason Mallister had cut three of Rhaegar's bannermen on the Trident. Wow... Freakin' impressive!
4. Sometimes I wonder if Septa Mordane is reliving her youth by being with Sansa and Jeyne, since she herself cannot ever marry or have babies. She just insulted Jory! :O
5. It's messed up that Gregor Clegane killed a knight at a jousting. It was no accident. Forgot the boy died not more than ten feet away from Sansa, too. Sansa had never seen a man die before, and has a strange fascination with it, unlike Jeyne who's freaking out at death like a good lady probably ought to. She thinks it's sad this boy will never have songs sung for him now...because that's all that matters to her at this point. Sansa has a lot of room to grow up.
6. Renly is very popular. Everyone cheers for him, glad he survives that hard blow.
7. This is getting quite tedious...hearing all these knights...but I suppose to Sansa this is life. Forgot Ser Loras is only 16 years old at this time.
8. I sure hope Ser Robar Royce is okay! He had to be carted off on a litter by Loras, dazed and unmoving.
9. And Loras gives her the red rose. She is in love. I'm sure Loras knows about Sansa's aunt and Rhaegar. That is old news to everyone in the realm.
10. Littlefinger is described as having grey-green eyes that "did not smile when his mouth did." That's perceptive of Sansa! Jon could see this too in Theon, *SPOILER FOR CLASH OF KINGS* (view spoiler) And Sansa is "ill at ease" when she communicates with him. Yeah, Littlefinger is very creepy here...lol.
11. It's interesting how Sansa at first wanted to hate Joffrey for what happened to Lady, but she convinces herself it wasn't his doing, but the queen's and Arya. Surprised Sansa hates the queen so early in this book. I thought that was later.
12. Moon Boy, the king's jester, would say jokes with deft cruelty about people that Sansa wondered if he was simple after all... hmm... Curious.
13. Here Joffrey is back to being the perfect prince for Sansa. Ugh. True sociopaths know how to look normal, know how to hide it, their cruelty. Just saying.
14. The Lannisters look scorned from the way the king is acting, very drunk and violent, an utter idiot. How embarrassing. Love how Lord Renly so cheerfully and tactfully changes the topic, making it not so awkward. You can tell he is used to this rodeo.
15. And there goes Joff's chivalrous nature. Makes me wonder what he thinks of his father's antics when he gets like this. I think he doesn't want to be alone with her, at this point. He's only nice to her for show, that's all.
16. "A true lady would not notice his face," Sansa is not he perfect lady after all. :) I love how brutally honest Sandor is to Sansa; he sees through her courtesies. He brutally tries to get her to see reason; that Gregor is an ass, and knights aren't all they're cracked up to be, and she should speak truthfully because otherwise she sounds like a stupid little talking parrot. Sandor is hideous, and it frightens Sansa.
17. The Hound's story is so sad...boys like Gregor have no soul...to burn his little brother like that. Definitely not what a Stark would do.
18. I like this saying from Sandor, "Only a man who's been burned knows what hell is truly like." Sounds like he would not get along with the Targaryens...or followers of the Red God, lol. Didn't realize Rhaegar Targaryen himself had knighted Ser Gregor...odd he wouldn't see what he's knighting.
19. It's sweet that Sansa winds up feeling sad for him. "Somehow, the fear had gone away." Why would she be afraid for him, though?
20. Finally she tells him a truth: "He was no true knight."
21. And just as I begin to think they made a breakthrough in friendship, Sandor threatens her with her life if she ever tells anyone his true story. Because it'll make him look weak, pathetic, pitiful. The Hound doesn't want to be pitied. At first I wonder why he even tells her this besides the fact that he's drunk, but then I realize he must feel so lonely. And maybe he's afraid his brother will kill him tomorrow at the tourney...I don't know. But we see a side to Sandor Clegane we've never seen before.
Yes, that's why it caught my attention, why her?. I mean Sandor telling Sansa. Thank you!Sansa needs to grow a lot, but at this point she just thinks all that matter are songs and boys. I listen to a podcast, and the girl that talks the most said something that I didn't think about: Sansa has been taught all her life to be submissive, pretty and gracious all her life. So that is another reason she acts like that.
I really like Renly, it seems a lot of people like him a lot.
I think Sandor is a really interesting character, and this shows some sides of him we didn't see in other chapters when he is mention. I believe this is why is so important the point of view we are reading from, because we are seeing people from their eyes.
Yes, I agree, I think it's unfair of others to hate Sansa -- because you have to remember she is only 11 years old at this point and she has been bred to be the good, pretty, submissive lady that most men want their women to be. And she does it well. She is also not as fast, intellectually, as other girls like Arya, but that is not an important criteria men look for in a lady wife. I just don't think it's fair to judge her on this. Her hatred for Lady's death is somewhat in the right place, she blames it on Cersei and she wants to in her heart blame Joff, but she still has to grow up and stop fighting with her sister. I wonder if Ned ever gave Sansa the same talk as he did with Arya, about the lone wolf. I like Renly and find Sandor interesting too, but probably not as much as other people. I honestly forgot a lot about Renly, and I had let the show's depiction of him taint my opinion of him, so right now I'm treating him in the book as though I've never heard of him before.
Yes, it happened the same to be, I confused book Renly and the one in the series. I never realised he is gay, until I saw it on the show. But I will pay more attention now, even though I don't think I'll notice. I stopped watching it, and have seen the first three seasons. I got so confused, I lost so many details! But I think for most part is a good adaptation. Maybe I'll watch the last ones before we read those books, so I don't get confused again.
The first three seasons were pretty good, in my opinion. The fourth one started to deviate a little bit, drawing out the wildling battle and Ygritte thing, and added scenes that weren't in the book, but it didn't totally upset me. The fifth season was WAY off. Several characters are nowhere near where they're supposed to be in the books, and this bothers me, even though I understand these two medias should be treated separately. It's good you haven't watched the last two seasons yet. I also never caught the gist that Renly or Loras were gay, but now that I am reading the book all over again it is hard not to picture him so. Just because a man likes to dress nice does not automatically make him gay.
YES! That's what I thought about Renly as well. Like I said, I will pay more attention this time, but I don't think I will notice. I have read sopilers of the last two seasons because I know the story, but there is at least one character that is killed in the tv show, and lives in the books. I was like wtf about Sansa storyline in the show. But I really don't mind a lot. I don't even know if I will watch the seasons I haven't, but that's because I have read the books and there is no point in arguing, they are way, way better. So that's why I am not super excited about the tv show.
. I can't say I am shocked the thing she was most attracted to in the tourney were the knights. They must have look so out of this world they way they are described.
. I forgot Thoros of Myr participated.
. It was so weird for me to read again how fascinated Sansa was watching this man die.
. When Loras Tyrell won his last match of the day, he gave Sansa a red rose, and he had given white roses to the other fair maidens in the crowd. He is so galant though.
. And I am sorry for any Littlefinger lovers out there, but he is so creepy! The way he touched her hair and told her she has her mother hair.
. So, at the feast Joffrey was lovely to her, and of course she was super happy about it. And she blames Arya and Cersei for what happened, not him. She is still living the dream.
. It made me feel so bad when Robert started screaming. A king should not act like that, and I don't think what we have seen of him so far implies he could ever be a good one. Cersei left the room, and Joffrey did the same after her.
. About the Hound story. He probably told her about it because he was really drunk, but I bet this wasn't the first time he drank that much, so I wonder why he told her. He barely knows her. And it's just so sad. His brother is pure evil, and he told Sansa Gregor wanted to kill that boy in the joust. It really scares me hoe evil he can be. I think even his father was afraid of him, since the story he told people was a different one, like it was an accident.
. I like Sandor, not gonna lie. But he scared Sansa so much, telling her he will kill her if she ever tells anyone about how he got burned. I believe it's a way to pretect himself, but still, it was a big thing to threaten a 13 year old girl.