Othello Othello discussion


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Two different Othello's

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☯Emily  Ginder I just finished this play today. I felt there was a disconnect in Shakespeare's depiction of Othello. In the first two acts, he is portrayed as a noble, honest, faithful and just man who would give his life to serve others. Would this type of man suddenly become irrational, crass and hateful without definitive PROOF that his wife was unfaithful? Even an extremely jealous husband does not usually plan to kill his spouse, although he might in the spur of the moment, if he became enraged. No one who is noble, faithful, and just would fall apart like Othello is portrayed.


Peter Castine No one? Shakespeare obviously disagrees.

I'm with Bill on this.


☯Emily  Ginder A person who is noble, strong and fair would not act this way. It is inconceivable to classify what Othello did as noble and just. He acted like a foolish, insecure child in the second half of the play with no clue or indication that he was that way in the first half. Poor portrayal of Othello by "Bill." However, he did a great job with Iago and Emilia.


Peter Castine The thing is that even the noblest, the most honest, the most faithful, the most just of men (or woman) will have some weakness, some Achilles heel, something, somewhere, that will drive him (or her) to irrational behavior.

It's just a matter of someone finding that weak spot and working on it hard enough.

Name me your hero; there's a weak spot.


message 5: by Jen (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jen His Achilles heel was his insecurity.


☯Emily  Ginder Definitely. However, a noble, calm, rational man does not normally murder his wife, even if he is insecure. There are plenty of insecure men and women in the world who don't kill. They make their spouses' lives miserable in a myriad of different ways.


message 7: by Jen (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jen Yes, but Othello was a soldier with none of the refinements of a 'gentleman', his nobility and strength was all on the battlefield. And as such he had a simple understanding of Society's ways, which is why it was easy for a manipulator like Iago to over emphasise the importance of a handkerchief. Once the seed of doubt was planted, his insecurity took hold and constructed a reality that never was. Desdemona's supposed infidelity was a direct affront to him as a man (not a brave and noble soldier, where he was confident) and his only reaction was to hit out.

The world is filled with men and women who kill out of jealousy - called 'crimes of passion' and happens all the time. To the good and the bad, the noble and the beasts.

Currently, there is a trial going on where an Olympian (brave and noble, apparently) is in the dock for more or less the same thing. Allegedly.

Jealously - the green eyed monster - no rhyme or reason when it takes hold.

Never doubt Shakespeare - he understands human behaviour better than most.


message 8: by Monica (last edited Mar 09, 2014 01:09PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Monica Madaus I really, really, really like Shakespeare, although I probably prefer his humorous plays. That said, I think that some of his character transformations and other important emotional business happen WAY too fast to be entirely believable. I think it's possible he may have been constrained by the time people would spend sitting through a play. I feel that way about Macbeth, too.

Thanks, Emily, but I'm 'countersuggestible' and even argue with myself.

Having thought more about it, maybe Shakey doesn't need me as his apologist. If he'd wanted to show Iago doing a long con, which is kind of what I expected when I read it, let's assume he probably could have pulled that off.

The explanation the text provides, when Othello expresses amazement that Iago has human feet, is that Iago is almost demonically persuasive.

Which does throw us back on a different question: Why it wouldn't occur to a man of the world and battle-hardened veteran that even his buddy might deceive him. Is simplicity really a characteristic of a successful soldier?

My guess would be that part of being a 'band of brothers' is that if you get in the habit of trusting somebody, even with your life, it becomes a habit. But I don't recall any textual evidence to support that view. I'll have to look again.


☯Emily  Ginder Monica wrote: "I really, really, really like Shakespeare, although I probably prefer his humorous plays. That said, I think that some of his character transformations and other important emotional business happen..."

I agree. Othello changed completely in two days, going from a loving husband to a murderer.


message 10: by Monica (last edited Mar 15, 2014 12:40PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Monica Madaus The 'simple' thing is a venerable view, but I think there are a lot of problems with it. Maybe it would be more contemporary to argue that he came from a culture where honor 'proceedings' needed to be conducted pronto.

I kept thinking that it would make more sense if Othello has some reason to think his relationship is 'too good to be true'. And of course, he does. Her father has told him she'll cheat on him.

So Iago only has to water the seed, which is not only already planted, but arguably well-fertilized by....the eternal verity and validity of murderous jealousy as a motivation/justification.


message 11: by Tony (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tony The thing about Othello is it's a classical tragedy - the story of a person of otherwise peerless nobility but with one fatal flaw. Othello has built his life on the basis of service in the military world, he's a soldier, not a lover, and as such, he's unfamiliar with the emotional upheaval love can bring to your life. As such, his emotional make-up is indeed noble and honourable - but brittle. The idea is that a false friend, motivated by jealousy, can bring the world crashing down not only on Othello, with his brittle emotional intelligence, but on all those who owe their lives and positions to one in command, who has such a brittle understanding of emotional investment - his wife, who loves Othello truly and fully, is killed because he's emotionally weak ans susceptible to jealousy. Casio, who trusts his false friend Iago, is almost entirely destroyed by that trust. Roderigo is completely destroyed by making the same mistake. Even Iago's own wife, the spur that turned his mind "the seamy side without" originally, pays the ultimate price for loving him when he turns his mind to jealousy and revenge.

Modern audiences can argue that the transformation, the degeneration of Othello's personality from capable, honourable soldier to violent, raging murderer happens too quickly, but the counterargument is a) that this is the power of jealousy, b) that this is the nature of Othello's fatal flaw - his emotional intelligence is brittle and untested by previous love, and c) not to put too fine a point on it, Elizabethan audiences wanted entertainment and they wanted it fast.

As mentioned above, Othello's a stranger to the Venetian way of life, so he's particularly susceptible to the idea that Venetian women are treacherous - as her father says, "look to her Moor, if thou hast eyes to see. She did deceive her father, and may thee..." - a point on which Iago harps - "she did deceive her father, marrying you. In Venice they do let heaven see the tricks they dare not show their husband" and so on. And on the question of absolute proof, Iago cunningly covers that base too - "You would be satisfied? And may, but how? Would you grossly gape on, behold her - topped?" - He's telling Othello the only absolute proof would be to watch Desdemona and Casio together in bed - and which modern cuckold would want that burned on their brain? So, he shifts the need for proof down a gear - "if imputation, which leads directly to the door of truth might give you satisfaction, you might have it." A clever and well-observed piece of writing, that, as well as allowing the plot to actually work.


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