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Somewhat Rhetorical Question of the Week
message 151:
by
Nicole
(new)
Oct 08, 2016 02:12PM
I think there should be a time limit on the presidential campaign.
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There are fictional settings I wouldn't mind visiting or even living in, and fictional characters I'd enjoy spending some time with. But I can't honestly say that I've ever actually wanted to really be in any given work of fiction.
Charly wrote: "Attempts could be made to closer synchronize the poll closings across the country as well."The U.S. is a very large country, spanning four time zones in the lower 48 states . Any attempt to make the closing of the polls synchronous across this entire span would either require polls at the western end to close at a much earlier time of day than they do now, to the detriment of voters in those states, or else require the polls at the eastern end to stay open much later into the night than they now do, with no probable significant increase in the amount of votes cast. For some years, I served as an election officer here in Virginia. We were required to be inside the polling place for the entire time it was open (as I recall, at least 14 hours), with no relief, plus the whole previous time it took to set up the equipment before opening, and the long time it took to break down the equipment, count the votes, and fill out the forms after closing. (Then the poll books and other documentation had to be delivered, that same night, to the county courthouse.) IMO, an extension of the open hours for the polls to make them synchronous with the closing time in California (let alone Hawaii and Alaska) would NOT be very favorably received by the election officers in Virginia.
Votes, of course, can't be counted until the polls close. In the present system, where poll closings are based on local (i.e., within the time zone where they're located) time, the process of counting can begin hours earlier in the Eastern states than in the Western ones. Voters and candidates in those states aren't forced into an unnecessary wait for the process to begin when it begins in the Western states; so they --and voters in the rest of the country-- are able to know these results in a reasonable time. By midnight EST, voters nationwide typically have some idea of the composition of the composition of the next Congress, and often know pretty well, in Presidential elections, who will be President. If the poll closings were synchronous across the country, the whole counting process would also be delayed across the country, far into the small hours of the next day and probably well into the morning. Nobody would really know anything until then.
A saying I often quote is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Charly, what problem with the present system do you see that would be corrected by having simultaneous poll closings across the country?
Werner wrote: "... Any attempt to make the closing of the polls synchronous across this entire span would either require polls at the western end to close at a much earlier time of day than they do now, to the detriment of voters in those states, or else require the polls at the eastern end to stay open much later into the night than they now do, with no probable significant increase in the amount of votes cast. For some years, I served as an election officer here in Virginia. We were required to be..."Wow, Werner, that is an excellent explanation of the complexities involved in the U.S. voting procedures! WELL SAID! Thank you.
Thanks, Joy! (Serving as an election officer for years tends to give one a bird's-eye view that most people don't experience. :-) )
Werner wrote: "Thanks, Joy! (Serving as an election officer for years tends to give one a bird's-eye view that most people don't experience. :-) )""To know the road ahead, ask those coming back." -Chinese Proverb
Charly, thanks for the clarification.I don't have a dogmatic opinion on the question of Election Day being a holiday (although I do have some thoughts). I'd be interested in hearing what some of our other member think about that.
Charly wrote: "I was more concerned with whether it should be a holiday. As for synchronization it seems that those western states can see what's going on in the east before they vote. ..."Concerns have sometimes been expressed that, with the advent of modern TV coverage of elections, some late voters in the states further west might be swayed by a "bandwagon psychology" to vote for the candidate who's ahead, and/or that supporters of the candidate who's behind might simply give up and not bother to vote. But it would seem just a likely to foster a "support the underdog!" psychology among other voters; and it certainly might galvanize supporters of the trailing candidate to even greater determination. and greater desire to get sympathetic voters to the polls. As far as I know, no actual studies of the effect, if any, have ever been done.
By Election Night, it seems quite likely that few voters would be undecided enough to cast their votes on the basis of who's ahead. To the extent that bandwagon psychology is a real concern, I submit that it could be better focused on the steady drumbeat of "opinion polls," which start to feature heavily in media election coverage even before the election year starts, and which are arguably designed for no other purpose than fostering a bandwagon psychology for the better known and initially better funded candidates, and to marginalize the competition. After the electorate (not just in the more westerly states, but across the country) have been subjected to a year or more of this process, the damage is done well before Election Night. :-(
Charly, maybe it would further encourage people to vote if Election Day was a national holiday?
In my experience as an election officer, it's true that the early hours before people went to work and the later hours after they got off work tended to be busier than the long stretch in between. (On Election Day, I always made a point be bring along a good book. :-) ) But the times of brisker activity were never burdensome, and never produced long waits for the voters. Of course, the voting precinct where my wife and I served was just a small village and its surrounding rural area; larger precincts no doubt see larger turnout, but they also are staffed with more people. If Election Day were a holiday, I think many people would still opt to either get their voting out of the way early in order to have the rest of the day free for their own activities, or else leave it until the last minute. So you'd still have the early and late crushes.The main argument I've ever heard advanced for making Election Day a holiday is that it would "further encourage people to vote," as you said, Nicole. This is based on the assumption that the reason most people don't vote is simply that they find the process too physically inconvenient. But "reforms" based on this theory have been enacted already. In all states, as far as I know, people can vote by mail (and there have also been proposals to make it possible to vote online); three states conduct their elections entirely by mail. 34 states also permit "early voting" for the same reason. To my knowledge, none of these measures have resulted in a greater overall turnout of voters.
Interestingly, there's apparently never been any serious large-scale study of why eligible U.S. voters don't vote, although there's a lot written about it based on anecdotal evidence and armchair theorizing. But there's good reason to think, IMO, that for many or most non-voters, all across the political spectrum, the primary reason is the belief that their votes and wishes don't really count, that the corrupt political establishment will do whatever it wants no matter how they vote. The reasons why they believe this may be too complex to analyze on a thread like this, and the belief may not be entirely true. But if it is a widespread belief, it isn't going to be addressed by any procedural attempts to make voting "easier."
How do you think Americans would respond if they had no choice about whether or not to vote? It's compulsory in Australia.
Janelle, good question! My Aussie son-in-law is a great proponent of compulsory voting, so I was aware it was compulsory there (as it is in Cuba --it historically was in most Communist countries, and I think still is in the ones that survive). The idea has never had much traction in the U.S. so far. Neither the Republican nor Democratic leadership have ever become certain that the idea would gain their party more votes than it would the other party. If one or the other of them did, they could sell the idea to their hardcore base, who would then support it. But the other party would then predictably oppose it; and I think the attitude of many unaffiliated voters would be resentful toward it, as one more instance of an unaccountable government ramming another thing down their throats that they'd rather decide for themselves whether or not to do. (That possible reaction tends to make the leadership of both parties wary, and inclined to "let sleeping dogs lie.")
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought the reaction would be.
The fine varies a bit. Anything from $20 to $100. It depends a little on how many votes are being made in the election. For example, at our last local election there were three votes to me made - mayor, councillors, and a referendum. Failing to turn up to vote meant 3 individual fines - adding to about $118. If you have a valid excuse, eg in hospital you won't be fined. But because voting is compulsory in Australia they make it easier to do so. For example, a friend of mine in the states recently moved and changed her details on the roll. So now she can't vote. This wouldn't happen in Australia. You can and must still vote, even if you change your details at the last minute.
And all our elections are held on Saturday. We also have absentee voting, early voting and postal voting.
I think almost everybody finds the level of anti-social behavior on "social" media ironic. (Except, perhaps, the perpetrators of it.)
I've honestly never experienced reader's block, so I don't have any first-hand ideas about how to cure it.
Yes, I think I've suffered from this... For me, it seems to be due to too many book clubs. :-/
A dose of reality, but I haven't managed to swallow it yet. Nevertheless, various reasons have been keeping me from one meeting after another. Perhaps fate is saving me from myself.
I generally use "Merry Christmas," if I'm referring to Christmas. If I'm addressing a group that might include Jewish people, I might use "Happy holidays" to include Hanukkah, but I'd probably be more apt to reference both days directly. (I've never been into Stalinist-style "political correctness," and it gets short shrift with me --although I do believe in common courtesy and respect for others.)
I always say Merry Christmas, and if I know someone celebrates a different holiday I encourage them to share their holiday cheer in the manner that makes them the most happy. I get many a Happy Hanukkah from Jewish friends.
Barb and I have never decorated the outside of our house for holidays. But I enjoy the lights, etc. on other people's houses (when our girls were still living at home, we used to have a Christmas Eve tradition of driving around to look at the lights in the community). I like both the white and the colored ones, but other things being equal I really prefer the latter.
When the children were home, my former husband and I alternated white vs colored lights yearly for the tree. At some point through the years, he agreed that we could replace the colored outdoor lights with all blue.
Charly, I'll answer this question closer to the end of the year (and maybe even slightly after it). I hope to complete a few more reads before the year is out.
Though I usually haven't done so in the past, I'm doing some Christmas-themed reading myself this month.
I'd like to get my Christmas reads done as well and I have some thinking to do before I pick...
Charly wrote: "You might like the Autobiography of Santa Claus series by Jeff Guinn. Or as he states it, "as told to Jeff Guinn." Three engrossing and entertaining books with almost everything explained."Thanks for the recommendation, Charly!
I'll have to look over my list...
finally picked my favorite books for this year.1 If I Stay by Gale Forman
2 The Art of The English Murder by Lucy Worsley
3 Rose Daughter by Robin McKinley
4 The Under Dog and Other Stories by Agatha Chrisie
5 Christmas in my Heart by Joe L. Wheeler
all great books. There were a few others that were right up there but I chose my top five.
Two of my five-star reads this year, Robert Louis Stevenson's The Black Arrow and Daughter of the Eagle, part of Don Coldsmith's Spanish Bit Saga, were both rereads. They'd have been in the top five, except that Charly specified books that we read this year for the first time. Of my first-time reads, the top five favorites for me this year were:1, Forest Child by Heather Day Gilbert
2. Same Kind of Different as Me by Ron Hall and Denver Moore
3. Modesty Blaise by Peter O'Donnell
4. Dragonfly by Frederic S. Durbin
5. Wonderstruck by Brian Selznick
None of the books I read this year got less than two stars from me. But of the four books I read this year that got only two, the worst has to be Miracle on 34th St. by Valentine Davies.
I have only made one resolution in the past and that was to create a full length Doctor Who 4th Doctor scarf by the end of winter. good news, I did it. This year I've decided to read at least 100 hundred books and I've chosen 20 books specifically from my tbr pile. One of those is Les Miserable. Good luck Charly, here's hoping we can do it
I don't make new year's resolutions. But I'm looking forward to reading a stack of books.
that would be cool. it would be my first buddy read.
Like Janelle, I don't do new year's resolutions. It was never a family tradition when I was growing up, and my wife's family was never into it either.
I don't make new year's resolutions, either. There's always something I need to work on, and it's always a process. It doesn't help me to tie it to the turning of the year.
Happy New Year, everyone! Les Miserables. I absolutely want to get this read this year.
I'll be in Australia (or in route to or from Australia) from June 15 through July 11, and probably mostly offline during that time. Of course, I'll need to take along a long book for the plane flights, and I'd considered taking Les Miserables; but I'd be unable to contribute much if at all to the discussion anyway, and I was really hoping to use that opportunity to read a long book by one of my Goodreads friends, which I've been wanting to get to for years. So I think I'll sit this one out; but I'll be rooting for you all from the sidelines! :-)
It's on my to-read shelf, Charly; so whenever I read it, I'll definitely post at least my review on that thread.
Yes, it's as Charly said... I've been wanting to read it for a long time. June gives me plenty of time but I think I'd better start sooner... Charly, I need a
Okay, I just don't want you to see me commenting 6 months from now, lol..."yogurt to a marker"?
Reggia, I'm guessing that when Charly wrote, "yogurt to a marker" in message 317, he meant "you get to a marker." That's the kind of typo a spell-check feature can't catch (since "yogurt" actually is a genuine word, correctly spelled here).
lol, i thought it meant something like that but then again, it could've been the latest coined phrase, don'tcha know? :-p
I thought it might be some kind of dance move.
At home, I actually don't use the phone much, although it's helpful when my daughter (the one who lives here locally) and her family need or want to communicate with us. Doing without it would be an inconvenience, but not a great burden. It would be more of an adjustment to do without the Internet. A few people communicate with me mostly by e-mail, I'm very attached to Goodreads (there are a few other sites I visit regularly, but none but this one that I spend much time on), and I'd miss Skype sessions with our daughter in Australia. I could survive without all of these, though.At work, however, it would be a different story. I actually seldom use my phone there either; but the library has become very dependent on the Internet. Most of our work-related communication (even within the building, sometimes) is by e-mail. The library's catalog, cataloging functions and circulation system are online, though we can use paper substitutes for the latter. All interlibrary loans are arranged online. And many of the patrons primarily use the online databases and Internet access. If we knew the Internet would be down for several days, I'm stubborn enough to be willing to stay open and work around it; but our director would probably make the decision to close for the duration., if the administration approved.
Charly wrote: "These cabins are usually in a wilderness situation so I would think the challenge would mean being there for the month or whatever time."I don't think I'd voluntarily opt for being that isolated in the wilderness for a month. (Especially if I had to pay for the privilege!) I could enjoy being immersed in nature for a weekend, but I believe it would get boring to be there in one place for a whole month. Of course, that's just me! Being able to read uninterruptedly would make the experience more palatable (and I could use the exercise of frequent hiking); but I'd want access to Goodreads so I could review the books as I read them. :-)
To be completely honest I think it would be about two to three days tops before I went completely stir crazy. I need people. technology not as big a deal.
I remember being floored when I learned race car is spelled the same backwards and forwards.
I didn't realise it on my own, but it amazed me that stressed is desserts backwards. :)
Gah, we have to choose? Summer I suppose, no gifts to buy during that time of year, and I get to read outside.
Well in Australia there isn't a winter holiday season, so I only have one option in answering that question.
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