WoR: Section 8 - Part 4: The Approach (Chapters 39-75)

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

Section 8

Please keep all discussion to the events and speculation to Part 4: The Approach (Chapters 39-75).

No spoiler tags required. Though it would be highly appreciated if you Uncheck Add to my Update Feed to avoid accidentally spoiling this for your good read friends.

Please do not discuss events from later chapters. Referring back to events from the previous sections / book is fine.

[Bill]

Andreas no section recap? I will actually have to think about this section instead of using your recap as a cheat sheet.

Firstly I was so sad with what happened to Syl but think she will return since Pattern states that Spren can't actually die.

Kaladin finally opens up to someone but may turn out poorly since it was Shallan. He is almost there with Adolin and Dalinar also.

[Andreas]

Sorry, i was too busy on the way and vouldn't access the book. Now, i'm on a business Trip for the Rest of the week with Limited Internet access. I just Hate my iphone's autocorrection :(

[Sky]

I have to say, I was pretty annoyed with Shallan for the first half of this section.

Don't get me wrong, it was cool that she was infiltrating the Ghostbloods while successfully courting/seducing one of the most powerful men in the world... but remember Kaladin? That guy who kind of saved the day at the end of the last section and got thrown in prison for it? Because it doesn't seem like Shallan does. Just a stray thought, wondering how the bridgeman is doing or lamenting the unfairness of his fate, that's all I ask.

Oh, love triangles. Not even epic fantasy can get away from you.

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

So once again, I took notes. Although so far no one has bothered commenting on any of my notes from last time, and I thought I brought up some really good stuff. Alas.

I shall post my notes from this section then respond to the few comments here in another post:

* Syl mentions seeing a "cryptic" during the fight. I can only assume this is Pattern. She does seem to like cryptics for some reason. This was confirmed for me later when Shallan asks Pattern about other Cryptics.

* Bordin was reportedly left to spy on the queen. He's supposed to be a trusted footman of Dalinar's. Does that mean Jasnah passed on her suspicions to her uncle?
Why does Malise claim that Shallan deserves her father's hatred?

* I hope Adolin's gesture of imprisoning himself while Kaladin was in prison will finally improve their relationship. I guess now we know what was 'getting really boring' when he was talking to Shallan via spanreed. His believing Kaladin about Amaram should help a lot too. It's certainly improved it from Adolin's end. He's grateful for Kaladin saving him an d his brother.

* Does Kaladin give his shards to Moash because he now agrees the king should die? It sure seems that way. Why not Teft though? I don't like the direction Kaladin is heading. He says Moash wants revenge on the king, but he doesn't?

* Amaram is hoping to get his hands on those honorblades that were once carried by the Heralds that we saw in the Prelude of Way of Kings. I'm sure those will come into play at some point, but I hope it won't be in his hands.

* We get to see beneath the mask of Wit a little. He warns Dalinar not to trust them because their goals don't completely align. He also claims to be just man, which seems like a blatant lie to me. I also like the way he picks apart Amaram.

* The banter between Kaladin and Shallan in the chasm was really enjoyable. Kaladin's bad attitude is starting to wear thin though. It appears he's losing his powers and Syl is reverting.

* I wonder if Amaram is one of these Envisagers Teft mentions. They want to bring about the Voidbringers (apparently in an effort to get the Radiants to return?) Amaram seems to want to bring the Voidbringers back as well, but we don't know why.

* Shallan is able to adjust the size of her shardblade just by thinking about it. That's pretty cool, and I think the first time we've seen it.

* Well one of my guessing was correct. Shallan killed her father with the blackbane poison Wikim gave her. Or tried to anyways. So I was part right.

* Shallan and Kaladin seem to have bonded from their experience. Kaladin now knows he killed her brother. That's going to come out at the worst possible time I'm sure.

* If Syl is really dead and Kaladin is no longer a surgebinder, I may have to rage quit this series. I doubt she's dead dead as it were, but the Syl we knew may never return. It appears this is a result of Kaladin breaking the oaths he too.

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

Sky, I really hope there isn't going to be a love triangle between Shallan, Adolin, and Kaladin.

So far that hasn't seemed like the direction it was going to me.

[Sky]

Rob wrote: "Shallan is able to adjust the size of her shardblade just by thinking about it. That's pretty cool, and I think the first time we've seen it."

This left me asking quite a few questions about shardblades, since their size seemed to be their only downside. Of course, the whole willing-your-blade-to-stick-around-even-if-it's-not-in-your-hand thing also caught me by surprise. I swear I would have remembered that from the last book...

Rob wrote: "Sky, I really hope there isn't going to be a love triangle between Shallan, Adolin, and Kaladin.

So far that hasn't seemed like the direction it was going to me."

I'll be pleasantly surprised if there isn't.

Well, I guess I can give Sanderson more credit than that... I predict that something will happen to Adolin to make him not as generally likable as he is right now. A little physical/emotional scarring, maybe losing a limb to a shardblade and being bitter, or he'll do something he knows is wrong for the right reasons and it'll eat at him, who knows? Maybe he'll just be presumed dead for a while. Whatever the case, while he's out of sorts, Shallan and Kaladin will have a thing built upon the rapport they establish in this section, then he'll come back and angst will ensue.

I hope it doesn't happen, but it'll make for a better story so I won't be surprised if it does. Plus, when has Sanderson ever foreshadowed something and not put it to use?

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

The making a blade stick around thing was in WoK I believe.

And that doesn't sound like it will make the story better to me. Lol.

[[deleted user]]

Sanderson doesn't usually do your typical love triangle. The only ones I can think of right now were in the Mistborn trilogy, and those didn't take over the story, so I assume it'll be the same here.

Actually, I'm expecting Shallan and Adolin to live out their romance without interference from Kaladin and only if/when they split will anything happen on the Shallan/Kaladin front. (a) Kaladin has zero time for romance, and I highly doubt he'd try to steal Adolin's girl anyway. (b) Shallan might be developing some chemistry with Kaladin, but she genuinely likes Adolin, and there are way too many reasons (emotional and political) for her to stay with him. And let's be honest here. Shallan's version of being swept away by romance (Kabsal) still didn't override her sense of duty to her brothers. Until their situation changes, she's going to go ahead with the plan to marry the soon-to-be Highprince Kholin.

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

I have more to say on the possible love triangle, but I think it's more appropriate to the final section of the book.

I should finally finish tonight and I have a few notes on it from last night's reading I'll post later/tomorrow.

[Lori]

At this point, since I'm not done yet, I hope it doesn't become a love triangle and don't think it will. I'm seeing a friendship between Shallan and Kaladin, and I'm presuming that Kaladin will get his powers back at which point they become comrades in arms with lots of trust between them.

Before her disappearance Syl tells Kaladin he needs The Words, while Pattern tells Shallan she already has the Word but needs now to find....I can't remember. What were her Words, what Words does Kaladin need?

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

Alex wrote: "With the Shardblade size adjusting...I wonder why we haven't seen that yet? Has nobody tried or is it Shallan's ability?"

This is one that will be answered in this book at least. We don't know if this is the first instance of that, or just the first we're seeing.

Alex wrote: "Invariably I will only stop my reading sessions when I get to the start of a Shallan chapter...if I see Kaladin or Dalinar/Adolin I will continue on."

Just as a heads up in the last part he tends to mix POVs quite a bit, so those symbols can start to become deceptive.

[Geoff]

Rob wrote: "Kaladin now knows he killed her brother. That's going to come out at the worst possible time I'm sure"

Its not as if Kaladin knew he was killing the brother of this random woman he would meet (and befriend) in the future. I'm not saying Shallan will take revelation well (likely the shit will hit the fabrial fan) but its just a coincidence. But it does bring up the question, of what her brother was doing fighting in the army of an Alethi lord?

Rob wrote: "I wonder if Amaram is one of these Envisagers Teft mentions"

Good point. I had forgotten the reason why Teft knew so much about the Radiants. This does make a strong link between Amaram and the Envisagers.

Rob wrote: " If Syl is really dead and Kaladin is no longer a surgebinder"

I have a hard time believing that Sanderson would build up a character like Kaladin and then take away his powers unless he had a good reason. I'm confident Kaladin will regain what he has lost.

Sky wrote: "Oh, love triangles. Not even epic fantasy can get away from you."

I see it as more of respect between Kaladin and Shallan. Nothing close to romance.

--

It's a little frustrating that Kaladin and Shallan are so tight-lipped about their powers. But I suppose that's an example of good writing. I'm very excited for the time when they finally do reveal themselves, that I keep reading.

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

I think Aramam and the Ghost Bloods are my biggest questions from this book. We know so little about each of them.

There are a bunch of factions running around. It's more than just Dalinar vs. Sadeas.

[Lori]

The envisagers? I missed that, who are they?

[Geoff]

The Envisagers were secret sect that awaited the return of the Knights Radiant. Teft's parents were part of them.

[Rob, Mayor of Ghost Town]

They would throw themselves off of cliffs and the like, in the hopes of awakening themselves as surgebinders.

[Jake]

Did anybody else wonder about the recount of Sadeas' boon when he was young? He dueled well enough to earn a boon then defeated and killed the high prince of power at the time, yet still didn't earn a shard blade. I guess the men he dueled didn't have one either but it seems like would try for one if he was that skilled. Dueling a shardbearer is how Adolin got his blade after all.

Anyway I'm close to the end and my mind is continually being blown. I love this book.

[Orelia]

Jake wrote: "Did anybody else wonder about the recount of Sadeas' boon when he was young? He dueled well enough to earn a boon then defeated and killed the high prince of power at the time, yet still didn't ea..."

He dueled well enough to earn a boon, yes. It sounds to me like that second duel (with the Highprince) was immediately after. He may have been good at fighting when he was younger, but taking on someone with Plate and Blade while tired from a previous fight? I don't think he could have done it. Also, Sadeas is pretty cautious with his plans. He waited to betray Dalinar until he had a plan he felt certain would work.

[Jake]

Yeah I get that. I'm just trying to imagine two men in plate with regular swords fighting and capturing the crowds attention enought to earn a boon. It just can't be as captivating as a battle with shard blades is what I'm saying. Just something that piqued my curiosity.

On another note, the duel that Adolin earned his boon is now one of my favorite action scenes of all time!

[Orelia]

Do we know that both men were in Plate? Maybe that first duel was how Sadeas won his Plate. I'd be impressed to see someone break Plate with a regular sword or hammer.

I agree. That was one of the most interesting action scenes I've read.

[Lori]

Ah thank you, those crazies were the Evisagers!