The House of Hades
discussion
Am I the only person who likes Nico even after everything?

I still really like him. He is awesome and one of my favorite characters. I am kind of disappointed about the thing about being gay. I mean seriously Rick Riordan, was that necessary? It doesn't affect my opinion on him though.

And it's not your job to worry about that. You're right: they are going to read what they ..."
Well said.


I can quite literally translate this to mean: He should have thought about every type of child in the world (except gay kids).
You're saying that he should have considered the fact that there are assholes in the world (like your friends, apparently) and he should have hidden from them any ideas of things they might misbehave over?
And that protecting these little pricks from themselves is more important than empowering gay kids to face a world that is still fighting their very existence?
There are always going to be bullies. If Rick hadn't made Nico gay, there would still be bullies. And I'm willing to bet nobody in your generation knows that better than gay kids. They are the last minority, the last group that suffers systematic, AND LEGAL, persecution within the Democratic world. Rick Riordan can't stop your friends from being bullies. That's something you can only do if you are there in the moment. But, through his books, he can empower kids to face them. That's why it was necessary to make Nico gay.
What you're proposing is that the gay kids be left without this empowerment, while they face the very bullies that you seem to think are good friends.
How your friends behave is something you should be concerned over. But the limits of your responsibility start with TELLING THEM TO STOP, and end with telling an adult what they are doing. That is pretty much all you can do. I realize that's hard. I also realize that if they have any respect for you at all, then they will honor your request. If you ask them to stop doing something they know damn well they shouldn't be doing, then they are NOT good friends. That's a sign that they don't care about what you think.
It IS NOT your job to control their actions. As a friend, all you can do is tell them when they are straying down a bad path, or tell an adult if you think they need more help than you can offer. What they actually do, is completely up to them and nobody else.

I still feel that you can find new authors and stop reading rick's books. It is well within his right to write bout gay characters. The best thing you can do is to continue ignoring about anything that contradicts perfection.


It's not his job to stop anything. He is a writer, these are his books, his characters. He can do anything he wants with them. It is not his fault small minded bullies grab into something to bully another about. Nico is gay whether he wrote about it inter book or released it later. Just like Dumbledore was gay. They are fictional characters in a fiction book. To bully anyone for reading a book that has a gay character in it is just petty and reveals a lot of insecurities about the one who bullies. Cause that's like grasping at straws if they are bullying over reading a book!
Rick wrote characters reflective of the diverse culture that is the United States. That is the context of the book.

it is all my job to control their actions
What I'm trying to say is that you CAN’T control their actions. Short of locking them up in a cell, it’s not possible. Nobody can control the actions of another. You can influence their actions, by telling them what you think. That's all you can do. That's all any of us can do. And whether or not they listen to you is completely up to them. You can't control that either.
Rick could have stopped them if he hadn't added that.
No he couldn’t. They are who they are. Rick has nothing to do with that. Bullies are bullies, they always find a way. Even if Nico had a girlfriend in House of Hades, there would still be the same number of bullies.
I just wanted to give an example.
I understand that. I’m just trying to explain why your example is false. Sorry if I went a little too far into left field.
this tempt people to become bullies and the number of bullies are increased.
Not true. You keep saying this and it is 100% false. Only bullies are tempted to be bullies. Somebody who is not already inclined to bully people is not going to start because Nico is gay. It just doesn't happen. That sort of conversion only happens to somebody who feels that they or somebody they love is in danger.
It is true that there are those that feel threatened by homosexuality. But those people already feel threatened without reading about fictional gay kids in books. A few decades ago it was unheard of to have gay people in books, movies or tv. And you never heard about gay people either. It was something nobody wanted to talk about. And even then, there were people who felt threatened (much, much more than there are now, actually). Reading about characters that are gay, as well as seeing them in movies and tv, makes it seem normal and, therefore, nonthreatening. This either helps people to feel less threatened (and better behaved as a result) or does nothing for them at all.
The evidence: Over the last few years one subject in the news has been the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. It basically says that a person in the military can be gay, so long as nobody knows about it. I saw an interview in which a reporter asked members of the military if they cared if somebody on their team is openly gay. At one point, a soldier said "this is the Will and Grace generation. Nobody cares if anybody is gay". Will and Grace (in case you don't know) was a tv show that starred two women (Grace and one other) and their two gay friends (Will and one other guy). By your theory, that show would have inspired people to use the name "Will" as an insult, or a way of calling somebody gay. But what really happened, is that it is quite possibly the catalyst for the tolerance that is now more common than the prejudice.
That came from a self-indulgent, modern-convenience, situation-comedy about four adult (and rather immature) friends. There is absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY that a book that encourages individualism, tolerance and courage can inspire somebody to be a bully. It just doesn't happen.
What I actually want is people to think the same way I think
A lot of people want that, in a lot of different ways and for a lot of different reasons. It generally doesn't work.
I think it might help you to understand that there are a lot of people who DO think like you do. Just a few years ago, there were a whole lot more. And just a few years before that, it was nearly everybody. There are perfectly logical reasons reasons why people are becoming more tolerant of homosexuality. I challenge you to try to guess what those reasons are. I would list them here, but I suspect you don't want to read them at this point (you're probably sick of hearing from me).
Good luck to you.

this tempt people to become bullies and the number of bullies are increased.
Not true. You..."
Why is that even your problem? He lives in the US. His story is about american teenager. He has written about what happens there.

He writes the book he wants to write, not the one you want him to write. He is the writer, not you. A writer doesn't have to take everyone into account, especially those who espouse ideas he is morally against (that idea being intolerance of others for who they are or who they love).
Bullies will be bullies and intolerance always finds a target. A few decades ago it was the color of your skin, our sexuality, the religion you practiced, etc. Now it is the color of your skin, your sexuality, the religion you practice, etc. A book doesn't make anyone a bully. A boom sparks discussion and hopefully, toe.rance and understanding is what results.

He writes the book he wants to write, not the one you want him to write. He is the ..."
Totally agree. To say that the author cannot write about sexuality of a fictional character is infringement of his rights. I still don't see why some ppl make a big case out this. They don't have a winning argument.

Your country may oppose it, but others don't. Majority wins.

Actually no. Nothing is required. I writer writes whatever they want.
Anamika wrote: "Nico already has a bad reputation and with this he is as good as the villain of the book.."
Because he is gay he is as good as the villain of the Book?! I'm sorry. I am trying to be respectful of your opinions in all if my answers but this part is just ridiculous. Being gay doesn't make someone evil or a villain or as good as a villain. Being gay is just about sexual preference. Just as a straight person can be good or bad, so can someone who is gay. Whether you believe that being gay is a sin or not, I hope you also entertain the idea that being gay does not equal being evil or a villain or as good as a villain.
Anamika wrote: "I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT BULLIES BUT OF THIRTEEN YEAR OLD KIDS WHO MESS UP THINGS AND GET THEMSELVES INTO TROUBLE."
Anamika, and what we are telling you is that those 13 year olds who mess up and get in trouble for treating another badly because of their preference ARE INDEED BULLIES. A bully can be 10, 20 or whatever age.
Anamika wrote: "Writers can't just write what they feel like without thinking about everything.I agree that Rick thought about the gays,but what about the side effects? Did he think about it?If he had thought of it properly he wouldn't have written it."
Actually, writers can write whatever they please. They don't have to think about everyone or anything. I'll venture that Riordan was in fact aware of the intolerance of other countries and other people about homosexuality and that is why he wrote it. It shows and promotes tolerance and acceptance. He made a gay character a hero in this story. I'll venture he did think about it all and still write it because it is his right to write whatever he wants."
If a person can't even deal with a character in a book being gay and that make him hate him, then that person, in my personal opinion, is person of weak moral character that is not promoting love. Love others is what a lot of religions promote. If you want to talk about good and evil, hating is evil. Hate is an evil feeling put there by bad thoughts not good thought. Anything good is of god, right? Hate does not Come from god. I don't hate anyone or anything. Hate is too sting an emotion to let it crowd my heart with negativity.

I do not agree with the people that think that these books are not appropriate for kids, we grow up in a society where being gay is a part of our everyday life, if you can not get use to that or you cant tell your children at the age of nine, about the times we are living in then you are seriously in trouble, children should grow up knowing whats happening out there, and being gay doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you different, but the same could be said for being a red head, or being fat, or being a vegetarian!
I love Rick Riordan's books, and I am a HUGE Nico fan!

Gosh. What a sanctimonious little tirade. Please excuse me, It was early early AM and I was still in bed. Caught me unguarded and half asleep.
I try not to be preachy and all that.

I completely agree. Very well written comment. Thank you.

Authors write to provoke people into re-thinking taboo subjects , to push people into exploring their inner demonds to shake the norms of society up to break old prejudices. They do not tiptoe around things and try to avoid offending everyone. Their job isn't to confirm and back up the status quo. It is to question it. "
You're so awesome, I've never heard a better explanation of an author. Write that down somewhere, that's really beautiful.

Actually no. Nothing is required. I writer writes whatever they want.
Anamika wrot..."
how are you so sure of what an author can or cannot write? Are you studying international law? are you qualified to decide that? any content which is vulgar or injurious to any individual if stated in books will be banned by the government. so far there has been no such thing. why are you even bothered?
secondly, abusers dont read books to bully. that is hilarious.
this is plain fiction. demigods are not real. the only reason Rick made Nico gay is because, it employs realism. you have still not given a concrete reason as to why the author should restrict himself.
finally, abusers bully because they have a crappy childhood. chalk it up to bad upbringing and lack of moral values. books only state the truth.
oh nico is not a villain. please use your encycopledia or a dictionary or whatever to look up villian.

well said. here i was thinking why does this discussion still go on.

if you thnk no one has restricted your freedom, then how can you restrict Rick's freedom?

Anamika, THAT is in fact, in all effect, and most definitely a bully. One who abuses, terrorizes OR mistreat people in such a way as you have described IS A bully in any language or country. That is a perfect example of being a bully. I think maybe you are in denial about this fact because they are your friends. But, if they do as you have described, they are bullies.
Second, a reader cannot decide what a writer can write. He or she decides what they want to write. A reader decides what to read only.

the sentente "he should not have written it" itself connotes to restriction. it is literary terrorism to order a person to stop writing what he feels. what you feel is purely territorial. he cannot ask your permission for this, which i am sure you will not give. so at your expense, we will be depraved of a good story.
as reader your right is limited to giving your opinion. whether he takes into account is not in your hands. you have done your part so move on. if you are still 'anxious' about the society, you may sue him.

,with one little sentence, he can change the way we look at all things about those books. And to finally end this comment, I give three cheers to Rick Riordan!!!!!!!

ignorance is bliss huh? suit yourself. be ignorant, insult LGBT.
if you read western fiction it is riddled with things that will pollute your mind and next thing you will start a discussion on how sex is totally wrong. you will have to explain even more to your friends lest they think you support it.
just because you dont want their grilling does not mean you selfishly take away what rick has given.
that example is meaningless and one sided.


Why would that ruin the character?

Nico is still same old Nico. He's still an amazing character in the series, so why should his sexuality change your view on him?

that is not your business to tell me to leave. ever heard of polite discussions? or are you so barbaric about that too? if you cannot face criticism then you must leave.for all the talk about bullying, are you not succumbing to one yourself? only a bully would say things like that. you were rude when i was only being affirmative.

thanks for defending while i was unable to post. some members are uncouth and have no sense of diplomacy.

This one at least made me laugh.
You do realize that you can leave the discussion too? There's nothing holding you here.


Anamika, maybe you should rethink that comment as it alludes to quite a lot of violence. I don't know if English is your first language but, wanting blowing someone's head off is a threat, violent, and alludes to the use of firearms.


i don't think this girl had intended anything nice. there is definitely malicious intent.


It's not being hateful. It's the sadness, despair or whatever that you like someone and knowing there is no way they will like you back the way you want them to, coupled with the fact that being gay often carries a stigma and you believe your friends may view you differently.
Add to that that you are the son of Hades (death and all that), you lost your sister and your mother is dead...Nico had a challenging life.
And it's tough to tell others about your feelings when you think they might judge you.
Anyone would be dark and moody after all that!

doubting you? i don't even know you. so i don't get how that word figures in this situation. you were impolite to me for no reason. i lashed out back at you. please remember to be nice on public forums.



Well,I thought I told this.My friends are just an example.Even if I didn't know them I'd still oppose.Because somewhere in the world there are peo..."
which part of it is vulgar? selfish may be harsh. i accept that. what i said is perfectly admissible since it is purely argumentative; more like i rest my case. it is simple english. i repeat, nothing was personal.all i wanted was healthy and creative discussion and never dreamed that it would spiral into this.
anamika said:
"Well I really wanted to blow off your head.That's why I used it."
that is a threat. it is verbal abuse. you were using expressions of violence against me. homicide. murder.psychotic.
the question is not about who lashed out first but who used inadmissible statements. so i take it that you would construe every comment made against your views in this topic to be rude and biased, well you will have to "blow all our heads off", an expression you have used.
let me get this straight, you who thinks gay characters should not be used due to the fact that bullies may take advantage of it will bully someone else just because they told you were a tad bit selfish. shall i take the same stand to say that this site must ban those ppl who willfully and brazenly threaten to brutally kill someone whose only act was to use the freedom of speech to react to a comment? are you being racist towards me alone? because your remark has a caustic undertone to it.
if you were mad at my harmless 'selfish' stand point, you had various non violent ways to tell me if i was wrong.

Well,I thought I told this.My friends are just an example.Even if I didn't know them I'd still oppose.Because somewhere in the wor..."
It is not libel. Libel is a publishing a false statement.

Well,I thought I told this.My friends are just an example.Even if I didn't know them I'd still oppose.Because som..."
ooopsy. sorry for wrong info.i will edit it. thanks for correcting it.

Well I told you,there are still people in the world who'd do the same as my friends.
anamika said:
"Well I really wanted to blow of..."
are you nuts? you use a vulgar tone and say you did not mean harm? why don't you study net etiquette and then come back and apologize like a civil person? if you concoct your own meaning and say you are being nice, you need a course in english. try something more vernacular since english is not your strong point at all.
secondly, where did you get the idea that blowing off head is a polite way?
if you meant to say enrage why not use it? why do you waste time using expressions which are alien to you?
i dont care if you like LGBT or not. i am not your friend nor will ever be. i am a member on this forum, a third person. you get mad at my comment, you lash out using words that are not threatening. i am so tired of having a discussion on manners with you that by now any sane person would have admitted to her guilt and apologized already.
this discussion is pointless. when any one dares to make a fair point you are vicious to them. you will not even admit your guilt. it is like no one can supersede what you say.you are dis respectful. you use loose terms. since we cant convince you, it is of no value to continue posting. why don't you consider yourself to have won. at least it ends one fruitless debate whether LGBT are poisonous to mankind or not.sine i dont have anything to add i quit. good riddance
if you are looking for how to become a good bully, this is not the place. members here are honest ppl. look elsewhere for the knowledge.

You're right i forgot about all that but he has a new sister now and shouldn't he be happy because his Sister Bianca is reborn and will get a chance to reach the Isles of the Blest

But Edgar, just because he has new sister, it does not mean you stop feeling the loss of the other. Nico and Bianca were raised together. Hazel and Nico were not. They might be siblings, but they do not have the kidn of relationship that Nico and Bianca had. Knowing that your sister dies and you are not able to contact her again, it has to weigh on you. Considering what his pwoers are and whose son he is. Further, he didn't get to say goodbye.
His sister might be reborn but she is not accessible to him anymore. When that person dies, they are gone forever from you. That loss weighs on you.
He has lost a lot, his mother, his sister...and he cannot see them again.

It's not going to end. Discussions on Goodreads never end. Especially if they are about something so polarizing as homosexuality. Even if all the current participants leave the discussion, sooner or later somebody new will come in and respond to something you wrote and it will pick right up again.
That's why I left the discussion for awhile. It was going nowhere and I got sick of it. I changed my notification settings so it wouldn't tell me when others responded and I focused my attention on other stuff. Then one day I got curious to see if it was taking a different angle. It hasn't.
You are getting nowhere here and it's starting to show in your responses. First you made an unreasonable demand, now you have resorted to wanting to "blow off" somebody's head. What's more, your responses have gone so extreme that others who read them are going to respond much more emotionally than they otherwise would have. People who would otherwise read this and say "this is going nowhere" are now going to read it and think "there is something wrong with this kid, I feel like I need to say something". That is the complete opposite of bringing the discussion to an end. By posting that, you are guaranteeing that the discussion will continue for much, much longer. I'm talking months, or even years.
This conversation is taking a noticable toll on you. I strongly encourage you, for your own sanity, to turn off your notification settings and ignore this thread for a while. The only way to end it is to walk away. If you really want to end it for good, you can also go back and delete your posts. Please understand I'm not telling you to do that. I'm telling you that you have that option and taking it will end this discussion permanently.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
And it's not your job to worry about that. You're right: they are going to read what they want to read, and they will react to it in their own way. None of that is your problem. It's also not Rick Riordan's problem.
All you need to worry about is this:
1) Did you enjoy the books? Can you connect with some of the characters? Have you learned anything of value from this series? And,
2) If you know your friends are bullying somebody then tell them to knock it off. Why they're inspired to do so is not relevant.
That's all you need to concern yourself with. That's all any of us need to concern ourselves with, really.