Finnegans Wake Grappa discussion
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message 51:
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Harry
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Dec 08, 2014 11:27AM
I'll begin again in Gin all'swell. I think this read will focus on the biographical nature of the wake.
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my wife just told me she got me this for Hanukkah - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2... - so I may end up back on the Wake-train sooner than I expected!
In the vibe of Tell Me It Ain't Sew ::There are no brazen passages in The Wake featuring the Noble Mushroom. The man's sleeping dreaming of eggs and scrambled humpty's, but why no 'shrooms? 'ShrooooooomS!
Tell me it ain't sew!
At one point I read about a church (most likely somewhere in the US) that instead of reading from a Bible read from Finnegans Wake every Sunday and had formed a religion based upon it.Has anyone got any information about this? I tried looking on the web but no luck for the liffey of me I cannot remember where I read it.
I have no idea where to file this but it seems that the early days of wakeschrift were quite heated and not everyone got along.I was reading Mink's Gazeteer and noticed that in the intro she says that Clive Hart's Concordance was the turning point in decifering the wake and it was also the first to attempt it. Did she intentially snub Cambell/Morgan?
And then tonight I was going through the preface of Hart's Structure and Motif and on page 18 he praises Cambell for the attempt then goes on to say that Atherton is the best and finally that Glasheen has done a phenoominal job at identifying the characters.
He then lets loose with "I have been able to make very little use of the more recent book (also by an American author) which is disturbingly ill-considered, "inaccurate, and repetitive"
I have gone through the first pages many times but I have no idea which book he is talking about and who wrote it. Anyone have any ideas?
Harry wrote: "I have no idea where to file this but it seems that the early days of wakeschrift were quite heated and not everyone got along.I was reading Mink's Gazeteer and noticed that in the intro she says ..."
Mostly want to say, Apologies for this Group feeling like an echo chamber. But I appreciate your frequent posting. Just that I don't know!! No idea whose work Hart is talking about. I've read some stuff from the early reception of The Wake, but not as deeply as you are doing. My own thing though is that I just don't think the Campbell is at all helpful.
Keep up the posts. We'll surely Wake Again, Allofus!
Thanks for the reply. As far as I can tell for the timeframe it is a book called Scribbledehobble the UR-workbook for Finnegans Wake by Thomas E. Connolly.I have never heard of this and it looks to be quite obscure.
So no idea where to put this and I am on an infernal mobile device so brevity will need to be adhered to.It seems to me that as the Wake ages and the world continues on the ability to use the knowledge gained from things around us is becoming more limited.
There are just things now that weren't when Joyce was writing it. For example finding traces of the Vietnam War is possible in the wake but Joyce did not put anything about this in the Wake as it hadn't happened yet. The same is true for the Internet. I believe the word 'google' appears in the text but this cannot possibly be in reference to the Internet giant.
So how are we to deal with this? Shall we make a list if things that came later (after the publication of the Wake) that cannot possibly be intended and thus not fit as a means of interpretation? Or do we consider the work to be a living thing that can adapt itself to the future? Do we consider that Joyce designed the Wake in such a way as to include and lend itself to future events? After all, isn't the cyclic nature of history one of the main points?
Perhaps the story of the future is written into our languages and Joyce found the key to opening the language, thus tapping into latent aspects of the future built into the words we use. Perhaps Google was inevitable. Joyce felt his works had prescient qualities but I am not aware that he ever identified the source of that prescience.
There's some strange (and strangely relevant) similarities between what you're asking and what a certain (small) set of biblical prophecy readers do. One of my favorites is how, if you read it right, you can find helicopters in (one of) the book(s) of Isaiah (or one of those other dudes). I think it was actually locust which the text mentions. At any rate, the solution might be to throw out the notion of intention. After all, we want to read the text, not Joyce's mind through the text.
Or rather ;; rather than informing the text via its future (our present) we should be informing/interpreting our now via the text. The text has changed its own future, as works of art tend to do. We see our world differently.
Just a quick note after returning from dear durty dublin for a Wakend - Adam and Eve's is a lot further up Anna than I thought - she covers quite a bit of ground before swerving (and swerve is the perfect word for what happens)
The Wellington Phallus is remarkably erect and much bigger (nudge nudge wink wink) than expected.
The Magazine Fort is a very depressing sight, and well worth a wander round.
The Martello Tower is not just for Ulysses - there are some fantastic documents they have there (including a copy of Haveth Childers Everywhere with a note from Joyce to Beckett on it)
The book of Kelis and the Chester Beatty Library are full of the wonderfully illuminated, scribblehobbled, layered books that cannot fail but bring one close to FW
Though I would say that Chapelizod does not hold much to warrant a visit these days.
I certainly feel like the Wake is at least 0.7% more open to me after a time in Dublin, and would therefore wholeheartedly recommend a trip for all of ya.
Thanks to those of you who gave me suggestions of places to visit!
Very nice. I definitely have a trip there in the future.
Glad the weekend was full of fun discoveries but sorry to hear Chapelizod was a disappointment. It's true that there is little to see - but there's a pub there called The Mullingar House in which Joyce's father used to drink when the family lived there - John Joyce worked for a distillery company in Chapelizod for three years.The Pub has a plaque claiming it's the location of HCE and Anna's pub
But the way HCE's place is described in the Wake, I imagine it as closer to the water. There is another pub in the village called The Bridge and the situation is much more like the description but it didn't exist in Joyce's time I think.
It's also true that Joyce may have melded the nearby towns of Lucan and Leixlip, also on the Liffey, with Chapelizod and the pub he describes may be an amalgamation.
to be fair, I did not have much time to spend there, and probably ended up walking into the wrong bit of it...but the walk through the park to get there was lovely, so well worth it!
John Gordon has a lot about Mullingar House in his Plot Summary. He took old blueprints and matched them to descriptions in the wake. The inside in Gordon's day was vastly different from what he found in the wake but the outside and yard was an exact match. He went and asked the current owner and he had no idea. I think the sign went up soon after. also it was bought and scheduled for demolition but the city saved it by claiming it was the pub from the wake. I have a book called Joyce Country by Tinsdell which is basically photos from all over Dublin. In it he sites Mullingar House as the place from the wake.
Harry wrote: "I have no idea where to file this but it seems that the early days of wakeschrift were quite heated and not everyone got along.I was reading Mink's Gazeteer and noticed that in the intro she says ..."
I always thought Hart was talking about Tindall's book. I must have read that somewhere.
Has anyone heard the name of Jonas Barish? I came across a copy of Finnegans Wake that claims to be a scholars copy and when I inquired was told that the inside cover contained the stamp of "notable Finnegans Wake scholar" Jonas Barish.I have never heard of him.
Also, I am unsure if the edition has underlining and line notes in the margins (which would make it an interesting purchase) or if I am just paying extra for the stamp inside.
I tried googling Barish and nothing.
Harry wrote: "Has anyone heard the name of Jonas Barish? I came across a copy of Finnegans Wake that claims to be a scholars copy and when I inquired was told that the inside cover contained the stamp of "notabl..."I can't say I've heard of him.
So in the end, the "scholar's copy" of FW turned out to be a 1945 hardcover that had a sticker on the inside declaring it from the library of Jonas Barish. There is no underling and no notes. The seller listed it as a scholar's copy" for the increased worth but it is not.
I also found someone on ebay selling every edition of the newlitter. I wrote them to find out if they were originals or just newly printed copies. They want about $400 for the lot. Never heard back but from the pictures I think they bought the $10 cd-rom that I also have and printed them out. Scammers everywhere!
I have no idea where to post this so please move it if necessary but there is a symposium on Finnegans Wake next April in Dublin to celebrate its 80th annivesary. https://finneganswakeat80.blog/
They are also accepting contributions (papers) about FW to be presented.
While I am sure I don't have anything to really input in the form of a paper I am definitely considering going. I can do the whole trip for just under $500 and also McHugh is going to be one of the speakers.
Anyone close enough to be interested in going?
Harry wrote: "I have no idea where to post this so please move it if necessary but there is a symposium on Finnegans Wake next April in Dublin to celebrate its 80th annivesary. https://finneganswakeat80.blog/
T..."
Sweet! I'm curious to hear if there's any discussion of The Restored Wake -- I've not heard anything in years and it's seemingly out of print. Perhaps it was a failure(?).
