Worst & Best of Self-pubbing?

[Richard]

I used iUniverse and let me say right off it was expensive. On the other hand without them I would not have been able to bring my very rough manuscript up to industry standards. Their editing dept. was top notch. I liked that the writing never left my control. Editors made suggestions, gave me examples as to how to make changes, but I did all the actual rewrite. The best part of the experience was holding a book I had written in my hands for the first time. I think the worst and by far the most difficult is marketing. I'm glad I have this group to look for guidance.

[Arie]

I self-published because the statistics from 2009 - 2012 showed that I might make more money self-publishing than with a small run with a traditional publisher. I am not very interested in the prestige of NYT best seller lists or bookstores and such. I have kids to feed and writing is a job I am good at. The work of marketing the book all by yourself appears to be exactly the same because publishers do almost nothing for new and unknown authors.

A very successful New York agent who I trust read my book and said it was very good but publishers don't accept anything that is even vaguely dystopian from any unknown author anymore, period. It's a waste of time to ask. I know that readers like good dystopia. So, I decided to risk self-publishing. It was a gamble and I took it based on what information I could get but the information was outdated so fast that I gambled wrong.

The slush pile of self-published work is now so high that I came to the game too late. The door is closed on self-publishing for serious authors. There is no longer even a theoretical possibility of getting an unknown book by an unknown author in front of average readers, no matter how good the book is. With BookBub closed to new books without hundreds of reviews, I don't see anything that will actually work. There are all kinds of strategies on SM and blogs but they don't really sell books and never will. The only marketing of books that works is opt-in or else right at the place where the reader is ready to buy (such as alsobots on Amazon) and you can't get in to either of those if you are unknown and so you will never be anything but unknown.

Every editor and agent who has ever seen my book says it is excellent. I have only one negative rating out of dozens between Goodreads and Amazon and that is a no-review rating that is possibly from someone who was doing competitive down-rating. I have evidence that my books are good, but in this environment average readers will never see them. The window of opportunity in terms of new authors making a career of self-publishing is closed. The statistics I saw were probably correct for 2010 or 2011, but if I knew some months ago what I know now I would not have done it. I would have stuck it out, even waited five years until dystopia was no longer a bad word to traditional publishers. They will find out that dystopian readers are not going anywhere after all and their anti-dystopia hysteria will calm down a bit.

So, my advice to others starting out is that if you know your work is good, don't do self-publishing. Possibly if you are just dabbling and having fun it makes sense. But the door for new entrepreneurial authors in indie publishing appears to be closed with the possible exception of very specific niche markets and certain types of non-fiction where there are specific marketing arenas.

[T.H.]

Arie wrote: "A very successful New York agent who I trust read my book and said it was very good but publishers don't accept anything that is even vaguely dystopian from any unknown author anymore, period."

Yes, this!!! I heard the same thing from another very well-respected agent. And I didn't set out to write dystopian. In fact, I did everything I could to set it apart from the dystopian books out there, but because it takes place in the future and it's not sci-fi, it's considered dystopian.

Crap, I could just have written your entire post.

[Arie]

:) I didn't actually realize I was writing dystopia in the beginning either. Mine is solidly contemporary but has "dystopian themes." Reviewers have since given me the term "contemporary fantasy thriller" to cover it but I still think my former agent was right about the issues publishers would have with it. It isn't that it is too similar too the dystopian stuff out there right now. It is more that they are stuck in a way of thinking that says speculative fiction must be medieval fantasy or hard sci fi to be truly successful. One might think that the past ten years of publishing would have taught them something...

[T.H.]

I tried selling it as speculative fiction as well, but kept being told it was "too dystopian for the current market." Ah well. I did decide to go indie instead of waiting four or five years. I guess I'm just not that patient. It's a series that takes place in a post-global warming society, so it felt like now was really the right time for it. Plus, its the project that keeps me up at night, the one I feel compelled to work on.

Maybe when I'm done with the series, I can write the contemporary YA books I have in mind and try again. Of course by then, contemporary may be the bad word. You never know.

[C.]

Arie wrote: "I self-published because the statistics from 2009 - 2012 showed that I might make more money self-publishing than with a small run with a traditional publisher. I am not very interested in the pres..."

I feel your pain. I truly do. I actually wrote a blog piece with some elements of what you're saying. The self publishing boom was around 2011. I missed it as well. However, if you're willing to wait 5 years for a traditional publishing deal, I don't understand why you can't wait those same five years to continue writing until you're not an unknown. Win over one, two, three readers at a time. What if you wait those five years for a traditional deal and it doesn't come. What? You wait another five years? Life's too short. Yeah, there's a lot of crap out there. But I'm going to try slushing thru it. I just completed my second novel. I've given agents 3 months to accept it. Since they haven't. I'm self publishing it. I'm now working on my 3rd effort. Again, I will give agents three, maybe four months to accept it. If they don't. I'm self publishing it. I'm willing to do that for 5 years. In fact I'd rather do that instead of writing manuscripts and piling them up in the corner in hopes an agent will eventually agree to represent it. I refuse to do that. Someone will read my work. Maybe I'm not on the bestseller lists: but I'm not in a pile in my closet either.

[Arie]

C. wrote: "I don't understand why you can't wait those same five years to continue writing until you're not an unknown. ..."

I doubt that is really what will happen in 5 years. Even with 5 years of full-time writing and marketing work, I don't see any theoretical way that an unknown author with excellent work could break out of the slush pile. There is no avenue. It will not matter that I gain 100 or maybe even 200 new readers each year. That isn't enough to make even a tiny bit of extra income, not even enough to break even. I know that many of the authors today live in different circumstances. It is a sort of hobby for a lot of people. I could do it as a hobby I suppose but I am not in the social class blessed with lots of leisure time or the class where $200 for a cover design is in the realm of possibility. I might be able to put together a good-quality book every three years or so, given the pressures of full-time (okay, realistically over-time) work, children and the rest of it. I may go that route because I love to write and I do have readers who want what I write. I might as well put it on Amazon rather than simply posting it on my blog.

But if I write something else that is up to a very high standard, I will probably stick it out for a traditional publisher because I can actually work full time while waiting for that. Self-publishing is a full time job in and of itself, if you mean to do it with a decent level of professionalism. I have had the luxury of doing it full time for two months and half time for about six months before that. When the savings run out (and they will all too soon), I'll be back to working full time and that will be the end of that.

The problem isn't writing. I wrote three books in three months with two toddlers and a couple of part-time jobs. And the first drafts were even half-way decent. There is this time called "night" when other people sleep. Writer's block is for those with too much time on their hands. The real problem is time for all the tasks of building platform, keeping up SM, blogging, designing websites and covers, marketing, marketing, marketing... all the while seeing that it is a lost cause. That it will not matter. With a traditional publisher it may be true that I would have to do all of that (with the possible exception of the cover designs and finding my own copyeditors) but I would be doing it only if I had a publisher and then I would have some hope that the marketing work might matter at least a tiny bit.

[T.H.]

But Arie, how many traditionally-published authors never earn out their advances? Traditional publishers still want their authors to do all of the marketing work. They usually work hard for their top sellers, but midlist authors are expected to do it all.

There are no guarantees with a traditional book deal. Particularly for debut authors.

I do think that you should continue to submit if that is really the route you want to take, but it isn't a magic pill that changes everything. You still need to spend time building your platform, keeping up SM, blogging and writing. You won't have to worry about covers, copy editing, or interior design, though.

[Arie]

If you get a publisher, you are then competing only with serious writers for space, time and readers. That seems doable. Yes, it would be hard and the chances are still not spectacular but there is at least a realistic possibility of success, if you ware willing to work your tail off.

I think self-publishing was very briefly a good game (somewhere between vanity publishing and hobby publishing) when not that many people were doing it and it was possible for readers to find a book they wanted. I believe what has been written about it from 2011 or so. I think it did work and was viable. It isn't anymore. It is impossible for readers to differentiate and find what they want.

[C.]

Arie wrote: "C. wrote: "I don't understand why you can't wait those same five years to continue writing until you're not an unknown. ..."

I doubt that is really what will happen in 5 years. Even with 5 years o..."

If you seriously want to be a writer, you have to come to grips with the fact that it's a tough gig. There are writers with traditional publishing deals that are disillusioned as well. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm still seeking a traditional publishing deal even while I self publish. And maybe one day the trains shall meet. And my boat right now is similar to yours. Even while I write this at four in the morning. And sometimes I seriously wish I didn't have the desire to do this. That I only had the desire to stay with my day job. At least I already have that gig. But for some reason, I have this writing desire and therefore I write. And it sounds like you have that dogged bless/curse as well which means you will continue to write no matter what. All I can tell you and myself is keep at it. Maybe you'll break through maybe I will, maybe we both or neither. There is just no way of knowing. But you WILL write if you're a writer.

[Arie]

Yeah, write. It is the marketing thing that eats up all the time and energy. I think the chances of ever getting a publishing deal are far slimmer for me personally if I let the marketing take all of the time and energy that could go into making the product spectacular. I didn't actually mind learning Photoshop and digital formatting. That was sort of fun but some of the other stuff, less so.

[Jane]

Arie wrote: "Yeah, write. It is the marketing thing that eats up all the time and energy. I think the chances of ever getting a publishing deal are far slimmer for me personally if I let the marketing take all ..."
That's the deal--it takes the best of my energy if I let it.

[Sylvie]

@ C. I agree with you. I had several non-fiction books published by traditional publishers and the marketing was pathetic. Now, at 84, I have returned to my favourite form of writing - fiction - I am self-publishing (seven books in nine years) and though I have not made a fortune, each has paid for itself and made enough to pay for the next one. I suppose it depends on how much you want to write and what you have to say. With childhood experience of World War Two, a working life time of travelling, a great marriage to an adventurer, canoeing two of the world's great rivers (including the Mississippi, being sole carer for my late husband, dealing with dementia, etc., I think I have things to say so I'll continue doing so.

[Jane]

Sylvie wrote: "@ C. I agree with you. I had several non-fiction books published by traditional publishers and the marketing was pathetic. Now, at 84, I have returned to my favourite form of writing - fiction -..."
Exactly. You have to enjoy the process, not the outcome. It's a reflection of your own evolution.

[Judy]

Last night I went to an author event at the local library. This guy had two critically acclaimed books. He was published by Harper Collins. He had an agent and a publicist. Also advanced degrees in writing and literature.

Somebody (not me) asked him what he thought about self publishing. He likened it to walking in to perform surgery without a medical degree--that you'd keep on applying to every medical school there is before you'd do that.

I can't say I agree with the comparison. Yes, writing is difficult and not everyone can do it, but unlike surgery, it can be self taught. And no one's ever died from reading a poorly written book.

He also talked about trying to get short stories published and (like all published authors) the pile of rejection slips he acquired in the process of getting his first book published.

I don't want to do that. I'm not sure if it's because I don't have the drive to be knocked down and keep getting back up again until the miracle happens or if I'd rather put that time and energy into writing books that people can read now.

Even authors who have that coveted publishing deal don't make enough money at it to quit their day jobs. Or they have a spouse who pays the bills.

I occasionally ask myself why I'm spending all my time writing and promoting books that very few people will ever read. I could make a whole lot more money working part-time at WalMart. But I can't imagine doing anything else.

[Richard]

I think that the self-pub market is the way to go for many of us. I had Christopher Little (JK Rowling's former agent) ask to see my ms for Death And Disappearances. He liked it, but wanted to cut cut cut. So you see, for some of us, it's more than just publishing the book, or making money, it's about the work itself. I couldn't do what some agents had asked of me and so the book remains in all its original glory. And it's getting play. Many people have downloaded it and the reviews are pouring in. The book I'm working on now I've tailored to the advice I received from the big shot agents. Hopefully I'll have a big 5 publisher for the next one. I expect good things from Death And Disappearances!

[Arie]

This goes back to why I chose (wasn't forced to but really chose) self-publishing after a lot of research and a conversation with an agent I trusted. I can't afford to do writing at a serious pace if I can't make a living at it. The worst thing imaginable for me would be to have a publishing contract and be selling a few thousand copies, have no marketing support and make virtually nothing from it and then have the publisher drop it altogether and not be allowed to put it out there in other ways. That would actually be MORE depressing than this. :) I can afford to write at a slow pace even if I never get paid for it. I just wish there were some sort of test of quality I could submit to that would base the judgment on the appeal of my work to readers rather than my lack of preexisting fame.

On a brighter note, the greatest thing about self-publishing has been the quick and enthusiastic response of readers, few as they may be. I love writing for its own sake, but after working in journalism for all those years where you almost never hear from readers, getting enthusiastic and detailed reviews on a book was pretty motivating.

[C.]

Richard wrote: "I think that the self-pub market is the way to go for many of us. I had Christopher Little (JK Rowling's former agent) ask to see my ms for Death And Disappearances. He liked it, but wanted to cut ..."

Same thing here. Harlan Corben's agent liked my story Fathers House but hated that the antagonist was actually two people. She wanted the antagonist as one complex person. BUT that wasn't what I envisioned. So I released to the world what I wanted out there.

[Arie]

I do cringe to think what a publishing house editor would have likely done to my series. :P I didn't do anything carelessly and the places where I deviated from genre were purposeful. :)

[C.]

@ Arie: Another thing to keep in mind. Dan Brown 1st three traditionally published books did exactly squat. But when he hit with Da Vinci Code, people went back and bought his first three books. At one point, he had four books in the top ten on the bestseller lists. So, hey sometimes, it can be a good thing for your first couple of books not to hit right away. It takes the pressure off. Some one hit wonders never recover from that initial success.

[Arie]

I don't usually plan my life around the idea of, "Oh, hey, I'll just win the lottery." :) Yes, one of us could win the book-marketing lottery. Some writer will next year, one or two writers in the world will. Yes, that writer's books will be attractive to readers but many many other books will be just as attractive and they will be buried. Maybe it will be me or you, but thinking that way isn't a "strategy." I am mostly interested in thinking strategically. I am interested in making enough to scrape by in a non-western economy. I am not even thinking about winning any lotteries.

[C.]

Of course it's not a strategy, Arie. You miss the point entirely. You do whatever you need to do to keep yourself motivated. One of the things about being a writer is imagination. It's dreaming. You do the necessary work and you dream as well. If dreaming doesn't work for you, then DON'T do it. And if you want to QUIT, then quit. Find a day job and stick to that. But again writing is tough, and most writers will keep going by any means necessary.

[Arie]

The question isn't whether or not to keep writing. The question is whether you take the self-publishing gamble or spend your energy trying to get a contract that gives you a fighting chance.

I don't understand why there is resentment against what I am saying. I'm not selling anything. I wish someone had been willing to tell me the unvarnished truth six months ago. It is nearly impossible, when you're starting out, to find information that is not someone's attempt to sell their "my journey to self-publishing" story. Of course, those writers paint as rosy of a picture as they can. Otherwise, no one would buy their books on the subject. I knew that coming in and I took it with a grain of salt. But I figured that there had to be some truth in it, if the same message (that you could succeed if you had a good product and worked really hard) was everywhere. The fact is that there WAS some truth in it in 2011 or so. There is no truth in it now and I am simply not going to contribute to other serious writers losing opportunities and wasting the best of their work. I wish I had known this before.

Hobbyists can have a party but serious authors deserve to know that there is no way, even in theory, to market self-published fiction UNLESS you have some preexisting platform or readership. There are theories that involve using your preexisting readership or platform. Those may work at least marginally, depending on the size of the readership or platform. But the strategies set out in marketing guides for those who don't have a preexisting platform have either taken to rejecting all unknown authors out of hand or they are snowed under with the slush pile and they no longer work. It is simply a function of the market. There is too much supply and not enough demand.

In five years, I would bet that the pendulum will swing slightly back in favor of serious authors. Many authors will drop out because most can't afford to write, publish and market full-time without even breaking even. All I am saying is that, if I had known six months (or even three months) ago what I know now, I would have chosen a different strategy.

[Thomas]

Where I'm coming from, before I comment—

I wrote a novel in the Nineties. From 1994 to 2000, I tried to place it with either an agent or a publisher. No dice. I got scammed twice by book doctors.

In 2011, I started an indie publishing company. From August 2011 to March 2012, I learned all the technical stuff for formatting books for print-on-demand paperback, for Kindle ebooks, and for EPUB ebooks. At one point, I was in my house, alone and screaming, because my EPUB files wouldn't pass EPUBCHECK, and the EPUBCHECK error messages read like Lewis Carroll had written them. But eventually I solved the technical problems.

I published three books (that Nineties book, plus two others) in March 2012. Now (November 2014) I've published about a dozen novels and short stories under various pen names, plus I've signed up two authors, in my capacity as publisher.

Here's what I've learned: Nobody will buy the one and only book that is out under an author name. But readers might well buy the fifth book of an author, read the book, like it, then buy the first four books in one fell swoop. I have seen that happen, in real time.

My own marketing plan is simple: After I put a book up for sale, I get back into Microsoft Word and start writing another book. From time to time, I post the progress of my WIP on my Wordpress blog, but other than that, I don't spend a lot of time marketing. Instead of marketing, I write.

Yes, times now are harder than they were in 2011. So what? If I wanted an easy job with guaranteed money, I'd flip burgers at McDonald's.

Writing "please, please, pretty please" letters to New York City agents and editors? I can't be bothered. My time is more valuable when writing and formatting books. But if I ever write and indie-publish a book that gets a zillion five-star ratings on Amazon, then I'll talk politely to the NYC people when they call me. Of course, since they'll be offering me only 12 percent, while the Smashwords Store pays me 80 percent, the folks from N'Yawk will have a real selling job on their hands. But I promise I'll listen politely.

Here's what I've learned since March 2012: As a fiction writer, I can make money OR I can get my books in bookstores. It's much easier to make decent money at fiction if you go indie, BUT it is almost impossible to get your book into bookstores that way. OTOH, to get your book into bookstores, you have to play the New York City publishers' game by their rules, and that means you become a no-status, no-clout beggar with a manuscript.

Myself, I've gone that supplication route, twenty years ago, and I'm not going that way again. Besides, I predict that ten years from now, Barnes & Noble will be out of business—then what will authors do?

My advice to Arie: Keep writing, keep publishing. Sooner or later you'll write a book that the public will notice—and not only will that book sell, but you'll see your back-catalog sell too. But for that to happen, you have to have a back-catalog in place.

[Mercia]

Best: not having an agent tell you how to live your life and not having an English major trying to use your work to write the book they were incapable of writing for themselves.

Worst: listening to those who think that they have discovered the formula to instant self-publishing success when you know their real formula is: write erotica.

[Philip]

Mercia wrote: "Best: not having an agent tell you how to live your life and not having an English major trying to use your work to write the book they were incapable of writing for themselves.

Worst: listening t..."

Excellent

[Philip]

Thomas wrote: "Where I'm coming from, before I comment—

I wrote a novel in the Nineties. From 1994 to 2000, I tried to place it with either an agent or a publisher. No dice. I got scammed twice by book doctors.
..."
Good advice and comments - must stop posting too.

[Thomas]

Philip, you lost me with that last sentence. Are you saying I must stop posting?

[Philip]

Thomas wrote: "Philip, you lost me with that last sentence. Are you saying I must stop posting?"

No sorry - I must stop posting and write more instead - same with blogs twitter and facebook.

[C.]

Arie wrote: "The question isn't whether or not to keep writing. The question is whether you take the self-publishing gamble or spend your energy trying to get a contract that gives you a fighting chance.

I do..."
Understood. Personally I wanted/want a traditional publishing deal. If for no other reason, then to say I got one. But I'm just not willing to wait X amount of unknown years to get one. As I said previously I shopped my first book and had no takers, except one who suggested I change it significantly. I'm currently shopping my second one; but so far no takers. So I've started the preparations for a self-publish route. It will come out in March if a agent doesn't pick it up. I think most authors don't understand the concept of self-PUBLISH. They think it means writing a book and then uploading to Amazon. Self-PUBLISH means doing yourself what a publisher would/should do. You have to think like a publisher, which means garnering reviewers, paying customers and outfits like Kirkus and PW. It means setting up tours (as selfies--we can do blog tours. It means understanding and knowing your market/audience. It means doing any little thing your heart can dream of. But understand this, no strategy is foolproof. If it was, even the BIG FIVE publishers wouldn't have quadruple the number of misses as hits. Even they are waiting for the marketing lottery. They too, DREAM that a particular book will hit it big. That agent who signs you, that editor who bought it. They're using their experience to make an educated guess, and they're dreaming/hoping like mad that they were right.

[Arie]

This is a great board. I am glad I discovered it. Part of where I am coming from is that out in the marketing world you have to keep this constant positive attitude and it gets grating. I was hankering for a little reality check more than anything.

Thomas, I completely believe in everything you say happened. I had a very successful New York agent who believed in a book I wrote in 2007 and 2008 and shopped it to every publisher she could find for a year. She worked her ass off for nothing and she normally makes the kind of money I can't even dream of. She only had 15 clients and she picked me and believed in me. But the publishers said, "Great reaed but she's not famous, period. No way." The agent was as frustrated as I was. I wish I had not been mired in family health troubles in 2010 and 2011. If I had been able to take up indie publishing then, I really think I could have made it work. I have no problems with working endless hours, I readily tackle technical issues and research, and I've never had writers block of any significance. I can see that the books I have now with the marketing I'm doing would work in an environment that was not so completely swamped.

The reason why I am posting things that might seem like doom and gloom are:

A. If I knew this 6 months ago, I might have chosen a different strategy. I really appreciate the honest comments I was given from those a few months in, so I'm paying it forward.

B. It is easy to beat yourself up over failure but this looks like a nut that no one starting out without a platform now can crack. Those who believe that failure is theirs personally won't last until the landscape changes. And it might well change eventually. So, it is important to honestly say what is going on.

[Thomas]

Arie, all I can tell you is what I discovered by accident: Keep writing, and eventually your work will pay off with bucks in your pocket.

I see the situation as the opposite of what you do: I see the newbies starting to get discouraged and drop out. Because as you've pointed out, all the easy ways to make money at writing ebooks aren't easy anymore. But is someone actively _blocking_ your success, or mine, chortling "I will make sure you don't sell even one book" as he/they carries out his/their evil scheme? No, there is no such person, no such force. The odds of short-term success are low; the odds of long-term success are not 100 percent. But as the saying goes, "You can't win if you don't play."

Write, Arie. Write till your hands fall off your wrists.

[Jane]

Thomas wrote: "Arie, all I can tell you is what I discovered by accident: Keep writing, and eventually your work will pay off with bucks in your pocket.

I see the situation as the opposite of what you do: I see ..."
Like. Write if you're a writer.

[Arie]

You guys are such a breath of fresh air. It is really helpful to discuss this with people who get it. :)

I'm only confused about where could I have given the impression that I thought there was someone trying to block our success. That came out of the blue.

In essence, I agree about "just keep writing." If it's a calling it's a calling and you do it even if it doesn't pay. I've been writing in bits and snatches for 20 years without having the time to devote to it that is needed and I'll continue to do it for another 20 or 40 years, if I'm lucky. It is only that it stings when I thought there was a real possibility and it is yanked away. It was the same disappointment after I was sure that having a good New York agent was a sure deal to publication. It wasn't. I somehow never cease to be naive and hopeful about the next thing that comes along. :D

I am not so sure that the long-term chances of making it pay are 100 percent or even 10 percent. The fact is that most of us will never be able to break even, let along make enough money at it to get the time to really write fully. That is how it has always been and we aren't alone in that. Musicians and other artists have the same issues (from what I hear). It's the curse of having uncontrollable creative drives. :)

[Thomas]

Arie, my "out of the blue" comment came out because you keep saying "The window is closed." Unless there is some secret conspiracy actively trying to thwart our dreams, the window is never closed.

Arie, you got an agent. I never did. I never got a book deal. In the view of some people out there (and in the view of at least one person on Goodreads), those two facts make me a bad writer. Yet after going indie, now I'm earning about two hundred, three hundred a month. (Getting paid 70 percent by Amazon KDP and 85 percent with the Smashwords Store really helps here.) If I can enjoy modest success like that, never having had an agent, you can.

If I understand your page correctly, you've written two books in one series, and that's all. My advice: Start a third book now that is outside that series. If you have more to say in that series, come back to it _later_, when readers demand it.

[Jane]

Arie wrote: "You guys are such a breath of fresh air. It is really helpful to discuss this with people who get it. :)

I'm only confused about where could I have given the impression that I thought there was s..."
So, what needs to matter the most?

[Arie]

I've published three books in a series. I'll check to see where the page might give a different impression.

I really appreciate you sharing your experiences, Thomas. It can feel awfully lonely at times, not knowing any English-speaking authors in my off-line world. I am not doubting your experience at all. I just fear that it was different in 2011 when you got your start. From everything I've read, I think that if I had done what I have done in 2011, instead of 2014, the results would have been vastly different. You took a chance at the right time. That took courage and you've been justly rewarded for it.

[Thomas]

"The right time"? "Justly rewarded"? *slaps thigh*

Arie, I just looked up my earnings from 2012. My first three months of Amazon paying me, I earned a _total_ of $220.00. But I hung in there—mainly because it was $220 I didn't have before. My point is, I didn't come in at "the right time," I just said "I refuse to quit." And now, 2-2/3 years later, I still haven't quit and I have more books and stories to offer bookbuyers, so I earn more. (Not to mention, five-star ratings help.)

May I offer you a truth that blew me away when I realized it? "Every successful person has a handy excuse for failure that he chooses not to use. Nobody has it easy." Or as Oprah Winfrey once put it when television station WFAA interviewed her (I'm paraphrasing here), "I'm black, female, and fat, so why did I make a career out of TV?"

So Arie, again I say, Keep writing. You won't see instant success. But if you persist, who knows where you'll be 2-2/3 years from now?

[S.]

220 for the first three months. that's great! I've raked less than 10 dollars! lol

[S.]

errr...more like scraping actually..

[Sylvie]

Thanks to Thomas and Arie for some postive input.

[Alp]

Robert wrote: "Assuming you have self-published, made it to the finish line and sold books, what was the best part of the experience? Why?

What was the worst part? Why?"

The best part was actually just having got to the finish line and having got a sale - it proved that what everyone had said was true; it could be done. The even better part was repeating it. Getting the first review was magical - because it meant all of my hard work had actually paid off - someone had bought the book, read it and commented on it - I was so thrilled and humbled at the same time. Creating covers has to rate up there as being pretty cool.

The worst part? I don't do marketing very well. And every minute not spent actually writing is purgatory for me. That said, I have a very special friend who does a lot of editing for me and that is by far the most difficult job for me (not necessarily the least enjoyable but definitely the most difficult). Marketing is something I don't especially understand and that is part of the problem - I just don't find that I have the energy for it.

Overall, it has to be the fact that you remain in control of virtually every part of the process and your work gets out there.

[Arie]

Best part: A toss up between not having anyone who can force me to do things to the manuscript that I feel will change it for the worse and getting fairly quick and detailed reviews, which is motivating and just plain fun. :D

Worst part: Marketing is too time-consuming to be a hobby and it will never be a livelihood in this environment.

Thomas, that is good perspective. The fact is that I have another year in which I have the luxury of devoting mostly full-time work to this. I can write at least one more book. I can do marketing the way it has to be done in order to matter for that year. If there is at least a spark of hope at the end of it, I may be able to get some more time.

It isn't about hope or Oprah. :) Accepting failure would mean you stop writing, not stop self-publishing. I'm sure there is a famous quote out there somewhere about those who fail being those who get stuck in one way of doing things and refuse to change strategies. :)

I do know two things. There is a fairly good market for the sort of thing I write and those readers who have read it like it. They will read something and somewhere there will be a few places for new authors. If that real spot is only with traditional publishers, I want a shot at it. If there is another way to that slot, I want a shot at that. When I started out in journalism, wanting to be an international correspondent, I read a statistic (possibly just a hunch but presented as a statistic) that 1 in 10,000 young people who said they wanted to be an international newspaper correspondent ever got there. I got there at the age of 25. It only lasted a few years because the profession went the way of blacksmithing at that point, but I did it. I did it by going an unconventional route too. That is why the idea of self-publishing as a serious career choice isn't too foreign to me. But I'm not going to bet blindly on that either. I am in this for real, not as a hobby.

[C.]

Jane wrote: "Arie wrote: "You guys are such a breath of fresh air. It is really helpful to discuss this with people who get it. :)

I'm only confused about where could I have given the impression that I though..."

Arie, I just visited your blog and read the newspaper article off your Twitter feed. You're pretty good. Now, I better understand your frustration. You're doing all the right things and things are still going a bit slow. But hang in there. I don't normally do this; but I downloaded your book and followed you on Twitter. I liked the beginning of your book. You have talent, so just keep plugging away. This by the way, falls under my best thing about self publishing, it's meeting other self publishing authors, and learning from their experiences and sharing my experiences. The worst part no doubt, is the waiting to see if it all will amount to squat in the long run!

[Sharon]

Thomas wrote: ""The right time"? "Justly rewarded"? *slaps thigh*

Arie, I just looked up my earnings from 2012. My first three months of Amazon paying me, I earned a _total_ of $220.00. But I hung in there—mainl..."

Thank you, Thomas for the information you've given here on this blog. I think it is the most encouraging info I've read so far (not that there haven't been others). It has really given me hope.

Right now, I'm finishing my third book and the sales haven't been stupendous on the first two. It's okay, because I wrote the first two because I wanted to write, not because I expected to become author of the year. I still write for the same reason and just seeing my books in print is a reward to me. But the things you have said about continuing to write and not worrying about selling or marketing are a real blessing to me.

Thank you again.

[Thomas]

Arie wrote: "...That is why the idea of self-publishing as a serious career choice isn't too foreign to me. But I'm not going to bet blindly on that either. I am in this for real, not as a hobby."

Then realize something good about these days: There is not yet any Received Wisdom of the Ancients, so that someone can look down his nose at you and say, "You have to do it my way, because I'm the expert." NOBODY KNOWS YET, HOW TO WIN AT THIS. You're free to experiment, and maybe your experiment will pay off.

This is why I'm not especially awed by New York City publishers these days. They still insist on playing checkers by chess rules, because chess is a game they know how to play.

[Thomas]

Sharon wrote: "...But the things you have said about continuing to write and not worrying about selling or marketing are a real blessing to me."

Oh, Sharon, I worry about selling and marketing. I worry A LOT. But here's something that I'm indebted to Kristine Kathryn Rusch for pointing out: The absolute best marketing tool by far, head and shoulders above the rest, is Amazon's "Customers who bought [this book] also bought [these other books]." And it doesn't cost you, the author/publisher, even one penny for Amazon's algorithm to recommend you! The only catch is, for Amazon to recommend your book, it has to be in their system. Which means, the book has to be written. As KKR pointed out, the more books you write, the more often that Amazon will recommend one of your books to a bookbuyer and that customer will buy your book.

[C.]

Thomas wrote: "Sharon wrote: "...But the things you have said about continuing to write and not worrying about selling or marketing are a real blessing to me."

Oh, Sharon, I worry, I worry A LOT. But here's some..."
It's amazing. I've been trying all day to figure out which books my book is tied to in that algorithm as my book is not often listed as also bought for books listed under my book's also bought. I was able to google and find some of the books where my book is listed under the "what customers bought after viewing this item. But that list is at the very bottom of the webpage.

[Arie]

C, that is REALLY sweet! :) Thank you for the encouraging words. I'll be sure to follow you back. I am really enjoying interacting with other authors as I live part-time in the Czech Republic with no English-speaking authors around and part-time in a remote mountain area in Eastern Oregon with very few people around at all (beyond my preschool-age children who really are not all that great for literary and marketing discussions. :)

Okay, here's another bright spot of the day. My husband said this morning that according to his calculations we can just scrape by with me making almost nothing for another year, if the hope is that my books might help with retirement some day. So, he is going to stop pestering me and grumbling (at least mostly) and at least for the next year he will consider my writing to be "my job" and thus a household necessity rather than the first thing that gets cut when time is in short supply. :) It isn't exactly, "I believe in you, honey. Follow your dreams!" but it is a lot better than it could be. (J.K. Rowling gets major bonus points by me for doing what she did as a single mother, publisher or no publisher.)

[Thomas]

Yay for Arie's husband!

My advice, Arie, for the next year: Write short stories, and publish them as you write them.