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Worst & Best of Self-pubbing?
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Marcy
(new)
Mar 01, 2014 06:59PM
At this point I can really feel the diff between self-pub and having a publisher, bc I have both. I've only done one of my books (of 5) completely independently so it's really the only one I have the freedom to promote in any way I want to. And it isn't my fave. In fact, I really want to be promoting my most recent, an ebook short story collection,but it was published by someone else, who set the price at $5.99 and I can't be running specials or giving it away. I'm not happy. Never in a million years did I imagine I'd feel this way. And it's not like the pub is doing anything whatsoever to promote it; she's not. I plan to self-pub two more books this year.
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Self-pubbing is a lot of work but it is fun learning all these new skills. You get a euphoric high when you master a difficult publishing or marketing skill.
I think it will be interesting to see how Self-publishing evolves. Already, I'm seeing stories on how self-pub is impacting how publishers are doing business, much the same way your seeing print on demand and eBooks impacting stores like B&N.
I've published 11 titles with a 12th coming in less than two weeks, all self-pub. By this point, I've made all the mistakes (or most of them) that trip up all of us when we're new, and I still can't see myself ever signing a contract with a traditional publisher unless it is a print-only deal. Even then... I'm not keen to give up my rights to anyone for any reason. Unless it is for a period of 5-7 years or less, none of this 'life + 70' nonsense.
I've learned to ignore the "if it's a self published book, it's not a real book" attitude.I can't help wondering if such ignorance is perpetuated by individuals or business who are bitter because they no longer have authors on a leash?
Sorry, I forgot worst and best.Best - being able to point at my bookcase and say that I wrote that book.
Worst - marketing. I've spent my life staying under the radar. Marketing is an exercise in drawing attention to yourself.
When I published, some of my work colleagues were surprised.Colleague: "I didn't know you could write".
Me: "Write? I didn't even know I could read".
Dianne wrote: "Worst - formatting unless you're a lot more computer savvy than I am. Best - satisfaction of accomplishment."
+1 to that. Formatting is a headache and a chore to me. Thankfully I have a friend to lend me a helping hand.
Celeste wrote: "The worst part of self publishing for me has been marketing, but that really isn't so bad. It's just making time for it that's hard.The best part has been my readers. I love hearing their thought..."
Celeste, I am right there with you on both points!!
Great thread, as a new author this has really been interesting to read the positives and negatives. For me, the worst part has been the social media: facebook, twitter and blogs. Until I published my book, I did not even have a facebook account. I still am not set up on twitter and just started my first blog on goodreads. For me editing was not an issue which is probably due to my background in writing legal documents. I think the best has been the interaction with people who are interested in my book. I have had two books signing events and they were a "hoot."
Best. The unbelievable comments from readers and the evolution of of my style (a product of self editing)Worst. The small things, like editors on goodreads telling selfies their product will suck unless edited professionally. Finding a single, almost insignificant error on the first page of your just released/revised book.
The best feeling about self pub for me (after finally finishing my book) So, I guess that would make it the second best, was the first few sales I rec'd. I mean someone actually bought my work. The worst part is the first few sales, after several months I'm like, are these the only people that are going to buy my work?. Marketing is tough. But, I'm still having a blast and am currently writing my sophomore effort.
@Kurt and Dianne: Unfortunately, the number of people who self-edit well is a minority. Some of it is simply seeing your own words over and over through repeated revisions, and that's where the occasional typo or genuine mistake occurs. More often than not, though, I'm finding writers who simply don't know how poorly done their product is.As an editor, of course I think most writers should have a professional go over their work, while recognizing that there are a few people out there who can self-edit well. However, the sad fact is that many self-made editors don't know much more than the writers themselves. I can't blame an author for not wanting to waste his money.
I have heard of people who offer to edit after finding errors, but then try to coerce the author into paying them before telling them where the errors were found. I just don't get that, and think it's unethical. If I contact an author to tell them I've found errors, I always ask if they mind if I send them what I've found, and I always make it clear that I'm not trying to trick them into hiring me.
I think some of it is editors who are too pushy or too demanding, and when you don't follow their advice, they become petulant children. I've worked with enough editors that I try them out as if I were a hockey team and they were a player looking to make a roster spot.
I've had the ones who were worse at editing than me (I'm actually very good at editing when it belongs to someone else... my own words though, I'm simply too invested in them, have read them too many times to notice simple mistakes).
I've had editors who argued with me over a grammar rule even after I showed them three different manual styles that agreed with me.
I've had editors who argued with me over a grammar rule even after I told him/her that I wrote it that way on purpose, and it ain't changin'.
I've had editors who assured me that I would never connect with readers or would never sell any books because I didn't do exactly as they (pretty much) demanded I do to my story.
At a trad pub, you don't really get to choose your editing team. And the trad pub has the final editorial say so, which is a deal breaker.
A LOT of editors coming out of trad pub are still stuck in the mindset that what they do is as important as what the author does (it isn't... it's important, but it doesn't even come close to the importance of the author's words/work). They've been living in another universe for such a long time, where they've wielded the power of 'final editorial control' that they don't seem to understand that self-published authors are now their employers, not the traditional publishing houses.
I'm not saying all editors that self-pubs have to choose from are bad. I use a couple I'm extremely pleased with. But in my experiences (and according to a lot of other authors at places like Kboards where we talk about these things A LOT), it's about 50-50 when it comes to good vs incompetent (or just a-holes) editors.
If you are looking for an editor, and you are confident about your writing skills, talent, and style, then pass on any that try to get you to change how you write. If you are like me, and know the rules of English very well, it means you know how to break the rules and get away with it.
Make sure you explain to your potential editor up front what you are looking for. For example, I tell every potential editor that they are to only focus on grammar, punctuation, spelling, formatting, and any glaring errors (did a char use his right hand to shoot a gun three paragraphs after getting his right arm cut off?). This keeps the real editors from trying to guide your story away from what you want it to be.
I've basically resorted to testing potential editors by giving them a sample that has already been professionally edited (usually something I've already published. It might sound kind of mean, but real editors will make 0-5 marks in a 1500-2000 word sample that has been previous professionally edited.
I've received samples back with more than fifty marks/possible corrections. It makes me sad. I already need an editor! You don't have to try so hard to sell your services. If you have to mark a bunch of stuff up to make it look like I need you, keep in mind that I do NOT need you. And you'll never get a recommendation from me to my author pals (you'll usually get on a blacklist that we keep at private forums).
If you look at a sample and tell me it's pretty damn good in terms of punc/spell/grammar then I have a lot of respect for you. You don't have to like the story. I've yet to meet an editor that truly digs the genre fiction that I write (I tend to get the crime fic editors when I need a scifi book edited, and a romance editor when I need a horror story edited, etc hehe).
I guess this stupidly long post that sounds like a rant against editors is really just a 'hey, watch out, and know what you want before you go spending money on editors' stupidly long post. Again, there's a ton of great editors out there with decades of trad pub experience AND a good personality/attitude towards self-pubs.
But there's a lot of lower life forms that see self-pub authors as noobs that don't know any better (this is true a lot of times, another reason to check out Kboards forums, Writer's Cafe section). Everyone wants a piece of the self-pub pie because it's a big pie and it hasn't even maxed out yet.
When spending a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars on any service, know what you are getting into, know what you want out of it, and establish rules/guidelines up front (and in writing like an email). Okay. That's my Goodreads post for this month.
Travis wrote: "I guess this stupidly long post that sounds like a rant against editors is really just a 'hey, watch out, and know what you want before you go spending money on editors' stupidly long post. Again, there's a ton of great editors out there with decades of trad pub experience AND a good personality/attitude towards self-pubs." It is a rant against editors. However, it seems like a justifiable rant, and you've explained yourself well.
There are many writers who don't know any better if an editor hacks up their work, and many editors who have ego issues.
I classify items as "non-negotiables" and "subjective changes" when I edit. I'll highlight things that I think can be said better and will leave a margin comment with details for those subjective things. In any case, I leave the tracked changes for the author to approve, because I've found that if I approve all the non-negotiables like punctuation, the author will continue to make the same mistakes from book to book and not learn what he/she did wrong (I guess not everyone uses the "compare" feature when they get the first round of edits back). And really, the less revisions that are needed, the lower their cost, so it's in their own best interests to learn those things.
The best part of writing is the discovery of the story as it unfolds. And reading scenes that are better than I think I can create. I am one of those people that write and edit at the same time. It may be OCD, but I don't go on until I have the right words to express the picture as it comes to mind. I rearrange scenes and chapters as I go.
I still go back after and edit for grammar, tense, typos, etc.
All of this I call writing. I don't separate these phases into writing and editing.
But that's just me. You do what flies your kite.
What is the worst for me is like many others. I hate the Learning Curve. Learning new things like marketing and social websites, and how to post and when. I guess my security is in knowledge.
Oh, and did I tell you? -The Learning Curve Sucks-
Thomas wrote: "The best part of writing is the discovery of the story as it unfolds...."Yeah, I wrote my first book by hand, so it was just a little annoying when my brain decided I had to scribble out half an A4 page that I had just written because it decided it didn't like that bit anymore.
Thank goodness for laptops. And thank goodness for word processing programs.
Yeah, I wrote my first book by hand, so it was just a little annoying when my brain decided I had to scribb..."I first started writing pre-computer with x'ed out paragraphs, arrows pointing to different order and re-numbered paragraphs. I could not type a single word without an error. So, no manuscripts were submitted. I bought my first computer because of my desire to write.
Computers opened up the writing industry and the internet opened up the self-publishing industry.
Both have allowed readers to look inside the minds of many.
Thomas wrote: "I first started writing pre-computer with x'ed out paragraphs, arrows pointing to different order and re-numbered paragraphs."And extra lines written in-between lines.
Beau wrote: "Thomas wrote: "I first started writing pre-computer with x'ed out paragraphs, arrows pointing to different order and re-numbered paragraphs."And extra lines written in-between lines."
Yea, that too.
Thomas wrote: "I bought my first computer because of my desire to write."As a teenager, I mowed lawns and saved enough money to buy a typewriter. Just like all the other teens. Oh wait. I was the only one to do that. lol
Later, I bought a computer with the thought, "If I'm going to be a serious writer like Stephen King, I need some kind of word processor. I bet he doesn't use a typewriter."
It was a 286 with a 10mb hard drive. I was in business! We've come a long way, writer babies!
Beau wrote: "Thomas wrote: "The best part of writing is the discovery of the story as it unfolds...."Yeah, I wrote my first book by hand, so it was just a little annoying when my brain decided I had to scribb..."
If I had to write by hand I'd never get anything written. Don't know how writers managed before word processors. Apart from anything I wouldn't be able to understand what I'd written.
When you don't have access to technology, and you've got a story to tell, you'll do what you need to do.My handwriting is messy, my ideas aren't as linear as they should be, and spelling is about 80%. I would write at work (during lunch), and at the end of the day I'd type what I'd written at night (and expand on the ideas).
I have messy handwriting, and the quicker I have to write, the messier it gets (which is unavoidable when I'm trying to keep up with my brain - if I don't keep up, I can lose my train of thought).
Wow - some great comments about the range of emotions we go through in the life cycle of a book project. It's been a great ride for me as well. Book has been out for two years this month with a little (or more) marketing a couple times every week, and a few days ago hit the top of the charts for my genre on Amazon.
Worst thing about self publishing is the amount of money you have to spend to do it right. A publisher pays for the editor and the cover designer and takes care of all the formatting. As for editors hacking up my work, I'm paying them for their expertise but it's my book and I get the final say over what appears in print. I'm the boss.
Which brings me to the best thing about self publishing. Because you're the one paying for everything, you get to choose. You don't have to take the soft porn cover with the tacky script font because your publisher thinks it will sell better.. You don't have to accept editing changes that you disagree with. And you don't have to wait for your publisher to get your book in the queue.
These days, most authors have to do their own marketing no matter who publishes their books.
The worst thing for me is not the money I've spent/will spend. The worst is finding errors after I published. I didn't mind spending over $2,000 on professional feedback editors and a copy edit (I made all changes to the book; the editors gave suggestions). I didn't mind spending that money, but I didn't want to spend another few hundred just for a proofread, so I did it myself. Not a good move. Though I've been a professional editor before, the author is probably the worst person to do the proofread. Your mind knows exactly what it expects to find, and your brain supplies it. I wanted to get my book out there in a timely manner, because it took five years to write and a year for post-production editing. So, I'm embarrassed to say that I re-submitted the interior file six times. Oddly, I wouldn't find the lingering errors until after I re-submitted (and that's free for createspace and KDP, but I'm using Ingramspark too, and each re-submission costs $25). I'm just hoping there are others who have done this more times than I. I feel like a bit of an idiot. It wasn't until I blew up the document to huge size and went over it very, very slowly that I found, I believe every last error.
The best thing, so far, has been reader response. I'm sincerely moved by the positive things some readers have said about my work.
I only recently self-published my first novel, so I'm still very new to the in and out of the indie world, but I think that, should I have to choose a best, I'd say that it's the feeling of knowing that *I* did all of this work. Well, with the exception of my editor and the photographer who exclusively does my cover photos. As for the worst? Marketing, hands down. I'm as introverted as they come, and forcing myself to break through that has been a nightmare. I'm doing it, don't get me wrong, but if I had the extra money to hire someone else to do all of this... I absolutely would.
My biggest issue with publishers is them telling us when we raise the retail price of our book, the author's price to buy their books goes up. That is a scam. An independent printer charges $2.70 for 6×9 108 page book with front and back in color. However, we have to buy large quantities to buy them for $5-$6 and when we increase our book retail price that number goes higher. My next contract will have a fixed author price or they won't print my next book. And book buy back programs are a waste of money. We would be better off buying books and doing a large book giveaway for marketing on Goodreads. At least we will get readers.
Favourite parts - the freedom it brings and the opportunity to publish non-mainstream books, and the supportive networkWorst - marketing, editing, and the bad reputation.
The best and worst has been stated so eloquently here by so many others, I feel no need to say it again. But it's good to know there are so many kindred spirits out there!
Worst: Knowing that no matter how many books I write and publish, not one of them will ever show up in a Barnes & Noble brick-and-mortar store.Best: 70 percent royalty (from Kindle Direct Publishing), baby.
Barnes & Noble always reminded me of the final scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark, when the Ark of the Covenant is placed in a crate, loaded onto a shelf and the camera pans back to show a gigantic warehouse filled with identical crates. You know for sure no one will ever find it, even if they are looking for it.
interesting comments, I'm a hybrid writer, I published with a couple of the big NY houses and now am branching out on my own. It's not really so much of a choice. The big houses are no longer interested in Literature. I blogged about my experiences with the big houses
http://writerscentre.ie/blog/blog/201...
So self publishing is an adventure that I've set out on. Not sure what the outcome will be but I feel I'm fighting for my creative life
Great stuff, Emer! Enjoyed your blog very much.
Good luck with your adventure, Emer! Although I can't really blame publishers for going after what will sell, it does seem like interest in literary fiction has waned considerably.
I know a brick and mortar store won't carry self-pubbed books, but there are so many Twitter, Facebook and Goodreads groups where I find new authors. My wish list of books to read is unmanageable.
I was so interested in this topic that I was inspired to write a blog post about it. Please take a look. I'd be interested in any comments from the group.https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...
I bought a self-publishing package. It was expensive, but the editing dept. was a tremendous help. I liked the way they made suggestions to bring a very rough manuscript up to industry standards. They only made suggestions I did all writing and editing. It was quite a learning experience. Now that I understand the in's & out's of self-publishing my next book will not be so expensive.
Richard wrote: "I bought a self-publishing package. It was expensive, but the editing dept. was a tremendous help. I liked the way they made suggestions to bring a very rough manuscript up to industry standards. T..."Sound interesting Richard-thanks for information about self-publishing. Do tell about how "self-publishing my next book will not be so expensive." Think I am missing something here...
Sure editing it is painstaking. But, I love being an indie author because I can control every aspect of the production of my book the cover, the layout, the whole nine yards and yes of course selling several books per month isn't a bad thing. I've already started on my next book and I'm half way finished. I've edited it some yeah it sucks but, I'm very meticulous with my editing with everything. I like doing it all myself. It teaches me something about patience, discipline and humility.
I tried Reedsy, but they didn't like my email address or my password. Not a very friendly site.
Best: Seeing my work in print!
Worst:
Editing and seeing all the mistakes that existed AFTER my work was in print. Yikes!
Promotion. Or lack thereof. As a new author, fresh out of school, I did not have the funds to get much advertisement. Word of mouth doesn't work too well when you're new.
Pricing. The company I published with set books at prices that are way too high. I still believe this is one of the major drawbacks hurting sales.
I recently published a short story through Kindle Direct Publishing, and that was a much better experience for me. Easy to use, not to mention free. The thing I still struggle with is simply promotion and advertisement. But I understand this will always be a major issue for self-published authors. That's why I am now making it a personal priority of mine to show support to self-published authors whenever I read a book by one (i.e. leaving reviews of their work on Amazon, and doing whatever little bit of promotion I can for their work).
T.D, we all struggle with promotion and advertising. This morning I was looking for sites to promote my upcoming Kindle countdown and it seems like every one of the sites that were promoting discounted ebooks a couple years ago for free want to get paid for it. OK, it's only $10, but that means you have to sell 15 books to break even.
What works and what doesn't and how much it costs versus how many books you sell (or don't sell) is an ongoing discussion with authors.
And while I support your making it a priority to support self published authors, I will warn you that most of the self published books you'll find on Goodreads are really, really bad.
Aside from books self published by established authors, the only decent self published book I've read is The Billionaire's Butler: Mystery, Murder and Romance in the Wacky World of the Super Rich, which I'm happy to give a shout out to here and now.
Judy wrote: "T.D, we all struggle with promotion and advertising. This morning I was looking for sites to promote my upcoming Kindle countdown and it seems like every one of the sites that were promoting disc..."
Yeah, it definitely seems like self-publishing is an endeavor you mainly learn from through trial-and-error. That's certainly been my experience, though I still feel I'm fairly new to the game. And there's so much info out there about how to go about it. It can get overwhelming.
"The Billionaire's Butler" sounds interesting! I've added that to my Want-to-Read list. I've read quite a few good self-published works lately, the most recent being "Night Chill" by Jeff Gunhus. I've just started reading "The 19th Element" by John L. Betcher and saw that it's also self-published. I typically just read books that I think sound interesting and then if they happen to be self-published (and were good), I put in a little extra effort in writing a good review here and/or on Amazon, showing support on Facebook, etc.
Regarding self-publishing, here is a write-up on my experience with Telemachus Press: http://www.fccj.or.jp/number-1-shimbu....But when considering any of the many companies offering self-publishing services, look for a clear description of net sales, manuscript submission requirements, and fees for additional services or subsequent changes.
Charles Pomeroy
There are actually quite a few talented self-published authors. But it may not be easy to find them. I trust other readers on GR as well as book bloggers to help me weed out the crap from the good. There are a lot of reasons an author might choose to go indie, but there is a steep learning curve for someone without industry experience, which is why there are so many bad self-published books out there. It's not just learning how to publish, but how to write.
Still, lots of really good writers get turned down for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with whether or not they're talented or their story is good. Every published author will tell you how many rejections they got before they got the first request for a full, and then how many times after that before they landed an agent. Not to mention how many traditionally published books, while they may fit the publishing mold, just aren't all that great either.
Basically, never assume a book is good just because HarperCollins is the publisher, nor assume a books is bad just because the publisher is listed as Smashwords.
Not all self-published authors go that route due to rejections from traditional publishers. Sometimes, a book is targeted at a niche market and simply not a good fit for traditional publishing.But yes, there are lots of good self-pubbed books and bad traditionally published ones. Overall, though, traditionally published books tend to have better editing (at least those from the big Five).
Robert wrote: "Assuming you have self-published, made it to the finish line and sold books, what was the best part of the experience? Why? What was the worst part? Why?"
Best part, the readers. Worst part, not being able to reach more of them. The process of getting reviews is the hardest for me because I feel like I'm begging for them.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Smashwords Style Guide - How to Format Your Ebook (other topics)The Billionaire's Butler: Mystery, Murder and Romance in the Wacky World of the Super Rich (other topics)
The Subtle Beauty (other topics)
