Mockingjay
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Mockingjay and Allegiant: Why are last books in popular series significantly worse?
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Finish Allegiant and then you can say it's worse if you want. Lots of people said so, but I got a new respect for the whole series and the author after I read the authors reaction to the peoples reaction of finishing the book.
I recently read the mistborn trilogy; all three books were great, but I'd say the 3rd book was the best.
Paigetwo *Caitlyn* wrote: "Finish Allegiant and then you can say it's worse if you want. Lots of people said so, but I got a new respect for the whole series and the author after I read the authors reaction to the peoples re..."I get what your saying, but I honestly don't think the ending is going to change anything. That's like saying I read a book and the whole thing was horrible except the ending. That was the only good part. But oh, I still love it. You know?? Even if the ending is how I wanted or imagined it to end, or how it HAD to end, I still think the book is significantly worse than the previous ones.
But I get what you're saying.
And David, hmm... haven't read that series, but I'm not saying ALL books in a series the lasts books are the worst, I'm saying why specifically popular series like these have worse finishing books.
I completely agree with all of you, so there's not much left to type. :P
People often have lofty expectations for the end of a series, and rarely do the ends meet those lofty expectations.
I agree with the initial comments about Allegiant and Mockingjay, they didn't measure up to the other two. This could be because reader expectations were too great or the stories got too involved by the third books so that they lost whatever the reader may have found that made the first two books special.That said, it doesn't have to be that way. I agree with David that the 3rd Mistborn book was the best of the trilogy.
I think it comes down to the writer and reader having different expectation of how the series should end. It's the writer's creation so he/she should be able to finish it up the way they envisioned. However, reader expectations need to be taken into account. Just because the writer envisioned a story ending a certain way doesn't mean it has to. After all, writers tend to start with an outline and are willing to deviate from it as a single novel unfolds. They should be willing to do that with a series, too.
In some cases, it's because the author is dead tired of writing the series and/or being rushed to an impossible deadline. After Arthur Conan Doyle got tired of Sherlock Holmes, the stories got sloppy. After Louisa May Alcott became truly ill, her writing got awful and the last in the Little Women series shows it. Mockingjay felt rushed and parts of it made me go "eh?". The final Harry Potter book was very good but again the ending felt like it was slapped together quickly.
You all have very good points. Thank you. I finished Allegiant. (view spoiler)
I stick to my views though. I do believe the last book got significantly worse. And yes, maybe it was because my expectations were too high so I guess that's my own fault. :)
Funny. I usually find the MIDDLE book of a series boring. I think it's because I've met the characters and have formed opinions of them and how it should end, so I am impatient to see if the end agrees with what I think it should be.
Vickie wrote: "Funny. I usually find the MIDDLE book of a series boring. I think it's because I've met the characters and have formed opinions of them and how it should end, so I am impatient to see if the end ag..."Oh yes, the middle of Allegiant is even worse I think than the ending when it comes to boredom. It took me forever to get through it. At 350 I was like WHEN IS THIS GOING TO END. And everyone told me it ended sadly so I assumed someone would die... ugh. I just wanted to find out so badly but the middle was dreadful. I just think the series plummeted after the first one.
MOCKINGJAY WASN`T WORSE!1. The Hunger Games
2. Mockingjay
3. Catching Fire
Allegiant was worse than Divergent and Insurgent but Mockingjay was DEFINITELY not worse.
I still think Allegiant was good though.
I especially liked the ending:) Not bc I have something against "someone" but bc when a book doesn`t end in a happily-ever-after or an everythings-perfect its kinda nice bc almost all books DO end like that. It`s nice to get something more realistic. Thats another reason why I liked The Hunger Games. It ended fine in the Epilogue but SO MANY people died before(Finnick, Prim, Rue).
Oh I don't have anything against sad or unhappy endings. I didn't expect Four and Tris to ride off into the sunset. This is a dystopian novel. Of course things don't end in pretty colors. I just think the way Tris died, how she died specifically, was stupid. And I don't think the author really thought it out much. And I guess the ending of Mockingjay, like everything else, is a matter of opinion. Mockingjay ended horribly to me. Katniss was an icon for the war, for justice (whether she intended to be or not is not the point), and she ended up settling down at the end and making the capital kids do one last hunger games. That isn't even like her character at all. I understand PTSD and all that, but jesus. I wish Collins would have killed her or something patriotic. Like with Tris. Maybe that sounds harsh, but it's my opinion. :)
There is a difference between a book that didn't end the way you wanted and an inferior sequel. Years ago, when there wasn't so much hype about books, I hardly ever found books with this problem. I am thinking about the Mary Stewart books on King Arthur, the books by Catherine Cookson, Barbara Michaels, Tolkien etc.It took me 8+ months to read The Mockingjay. Not only did the book drag, but Katniss was such a whiny, self-centered Prima Donna, I wanted to strangle her. There was chapter after chapter of her disobeying all the rules set up to protect her, demanding special treatment, and griping, griping, griping and I kept wondering why they even needed her as Mockingjay. This was only marginally addressed when she was left off the team.
It appears to me that it is pressure from publishers that is causing a lot of this. There just isn't time enough for the author to do a good job. Creative processes just can't be rushed, especially if the author hadn't intended to write a sequel.
I think this is also true with best selling mystery books that are cranked out 1 per year. Any author who has as good a book as The Hunger Games , and the Gregor books, certainly has the ability to write better than The Mockingjay.
booksandbeaches wrote: " but I guess the authors feel they were trying to stay true to life? I personally don't like it when authors do that because it's fiction, I don't read it for reality and pain- I read it for the unrealistic happy endings- but then every author is different. I hope this helps!" I couldn't agree more! If I want to read something that comes to no conclusion, I'll read the news. Just about everyone who has taken Language Arts has studied Plot Development. There's a natural rhythm to a book and I think that is what most readers want. Even most stream of consciousness books have some structure and conclusion. Books like the James Heriot series which tell of the life of a rural Yorkshire vet, or the Mitford series have little mysteries or problems that are all resolved by the end of the book.
I think, for authors to operated outside that structure, they have to be truly gifted writers whose books become classics like Faulkner, Woolf & Joyce to make it work. For many, it's just sloppy writing.
allegiant was amazing!!!but yes, mockingjay was unbearable to read - TERRIBLE!!
I actually loved Mockingjay I don't think the last book is the worse. At least in my experience.
Hannah wrote: "Allegiant was amazing!!!But yes, Mockingjay was unbearable to read - TERRIBLE!!"
That's interesting; I had the opposite experience with those books, devouring Mockingjay and loathing Allegiant.
I actually disagree with this. Mockingjay for me felt not as great because I LOVED Catching Fire. Both the book and the movie were completely amazing. I was blown away by Catching Fire (both book and movie). For me, Mockingjay was just great. It wasn't spectacular, but it was still very good.I can't even believe you are putting Allegiant in category with any of The Hunger Games books.
Divergent was great. Good book, loved the writing style, and the story was intriguing. I was really curious, and honestly, the story could've been amazing. It had loads of potential. There were things that were meh and could've been done better, but I was willing to forgive and overlook because the story was that good.
Then Insurgent came out... That book was alright. It wasn't nearly as good as Divergent, but a great third book would've been a nice wrap. Allegiant was just the cherry on top to close off this nonsensical, unplanned, and really unfocused series. Things were looking weak for Divergent since Insurgent came out. Allegiant just plain and simple made me shake my head, roll my eyes, and cringe more times than I can count.
I am glad I read it. I got that series out of my system. Everyone had said great things about it, although Allegiant hadn't really come out yet when people started recommending I read Divergent.
I thought Mockingjay was great, but it wasn't nearly as good as The Hunger Games or the awesomeness that as Catching Fire.
Divergent was great. Insurgent was weak. Allegiant was just a disaster.
Personally, I thought Mockingjay was only slightly less enjoyable than the other books, mainly due to Peeta's temporary insanity and Katniss' lack of action. (I've never read the Divergent trilogy, but I plan on it.) But I do see your point, and the last books in a series are usually worse because the author loses steam. The first book is suspension, the second (and third, ect.)are the climax, and the last book is just the ending. The main points have been done and are gone, and the ending needs to be resolved. Endings are significantly harder to write, because you're not sure how to end without leaving the characters 2 dimensional, or the story line unfinished. Just think, your entire last book is in that mindset. Also, pressure is always there toward the end. Everyone wants an amazing exit for their favorite characters. The last book in every series is the end, and all ends are hard. That's the best explanation I have.
Nikki wrote: "I haven't totally finished Allegiant yet, I'm stuck on the ending, so please no spoilers! The Hunger Games series and the Divergent series are amazing series. They have both been read by millions..."
I personally thought that both mockingjay and allegiant were just fine. I guess I get why everyone doesn't like them, but I like them just fine.
David wrote: "I recently read the mistborn trilogy; all three books were great, but I'd say the 3rd book was the best."
Yep, hard to argue with that. Generally, the last book is my favorite since I'm a big fan of grand finales, but I'll agree that Mockingjay wasn't as good as Catching Fire, or Hunger Games. I have only read the first few chapters of Divergent, so can't say much on that. But David is right: The Hero of Ages was an amazing book, one of the best endings in book series. I heard the pay-off for the 30th and final Riftwar novel was amazing and the best Narnia book is The Last Battle by a popular opinion I strongly support.
Yep, hard to argue with that. Generally, the last book is my favorite since I'm a big fan of grand finales, but I'll agree that Mockingjay wasn't as good as Catching Fire, or Hunger Games. I have only read the first few chapters of Divergent, so can't say much on that. But David is right: The Hero of Ages was an amazing book, one of the best endings in book series. I heard the pay-off for the 30th and final Riftwar novel was amazing and the best Narnia book is The Last Battle by a popular opinion I strongly support.
I agree with The Last Battle . It was the best of all.
If anyone here has ever written a multi-chaptered story, maybe you will understand what I am about to say. Basically all of us can think of really great ideas, themes, etc. for the first few chapters or the first book in a series. But after that, yeah it gets hard because now the story has turned into its own thing and there are expectations about the storyline, and it sort of dictates you, you know?
Also, I think Rick Riordan ends a series well.
Leigh wrote: "In some cases, it's because the author is dead tired of writing the series and/or being rushed to an impossible deadline. After Arthur Conan Doyle got tired of Sherlock Holmes, the stories got slop..."Totally agree with this statement.
Mockingjay and Allegiant were two of the most disappointing books that I've ever read. Actually, Mockingjay was more disappointing because I didn't really care for Insurgent...although the ending kept me curious enough to pick up Allegiant. Having said that, I've never devolved into doing a thorough skimming of a book until Allegiant. I was about half way through the book when I started just focussing on the dialogue. Honestly, the death was about the only thing redeeming in the entire book. There were just so many plot holes and instances of contrived character "development." Having said that, at least Tris was involved throughout the book. In Mockingjay, Katniss spent half of the book drugged up, injured, and feeling sorry for herself. Both books were just boring, and by the time the ends rolled around, I didn't care enough for the "shocking" endings... Double meh.
totally agree .. both amazing series but disappointing endings it feels as if both authors started out with amazing ideas and carried on with them but somehow got lost at the end and just didn't know what to do with each character and how to end the series
The Chaos Walking Trilogy was great from start to finish. If anything, the 2nd and 3rd books were even better than the first...
I don't think the ends to either are horrible. I think that everyone had their own expectations and ideas to how the series would end and did not like when they do not follow those plans.
I can't speak for other people, but I really didn't have clear expectations of the two books necessarily. They were just boring and frustrating. In Mockingjay, Katniss became a different person. The book was more of a political statement than an interesting finale. Allegiant was slow paced, contrived, and uninteresting. My only expectation was that the books should hold my interest...
I think it's because things are way too unnecessarily drawn. I find authors stretch out an idea so much that they don't have much left to work with.
Maybe the author is running low on imagination.
NerdyJen wrote: "I don't think the ends to either are horrible. I think that everyone had their own expectations and ideas to how the series would end and did not like when they do not follow those plans."I disagree. I don't think books should end exactly how readers want them to. What's the fun in that? But I don't think the endings, or the last books in general, gave the books justice.
I just finished reading Champion, the finale of the Legend series....and I have to say that is how you end a series. Fantastic.
Stacie wrote: "Also, I think Rick Riordan ends a series well."Totally agree. The Last Olympian was amazing, and wrapped up all loose ends while setting up for a new series. I can't wait to see how The Heroes of Olympus ends.
I've yet to read "Allegiant" yet, but I have heard that it's worse than "Mockingjay". And seeing as how "Mockingjay" made me lose all respect for the THG series, I feel a bit cautious going into it...But to answer your question, I don't exactly know why this happens. I guess it's because this is the last chance you're ever going to see this world and its characters, but the author only have so much time that they can tie it all up, so everything's riding on it, but... it often times falls short.
Also, I think the authors may get stressed out and/or tired of their work around this point. Of course fan expectations are something to factor in, as well...
And I've noticed the longer you write something, the more the "fanfiction affect" (as I call it) starts to trickle in. Where the author has everything already set up, so they don't give things such as world building as much attention as they ought to, and that type of thing. And often times, the characters start feeling off because the writer's so focused on where they are at the moment, that they forget to take into account where they meant to go with them in the beginning.
Actually, that's another thing. As you write a story, it's likely to change one-hundred percent of the time. And since most people usually know how they want the story to end, they usually have it go that way, even though it might not fit as well anymore.
Which, I guess supports why so many finales feel out of whack. In fact, J.K. Rowling admitted to "sticking to her outline", but I personally think she's being too hard on herself about it. I actually loved "The Deathly Hallows" (though I can understand why some didn't), and think that everything came together nicely/made sense in it.
There's also the fact that a lot of authors try to make some sort of statement with their endings...
But, yeah. There are definitely some books out there where the finale just falls flat, imo. LOL. The ones I've experienced are: "Among the Free" by Margaret Peterson Haddix (somewhat, anyway), "The Vampire Diaries'" last book: "Midnight", "Mockingjay" definitely, "Maximum Ride" (and pretty much all the books preceding "Nevermore" from "Fang" and onward.
And though I personally liked them, I know there are a lot of people out there who disliked "The Deathly Hallows" (like I said earlier), and "Breaking Dawn" (even if they had liked "Twilight", "New Moon", and "Eclipse" before that, as they felt that BD went in a completely different direction than the other books had).
However, these are some endings to series that I think break this mold: the "Roswell High" series by Melinda Metz and "The Mortal Instruments" and "The Infernal Devices" series by Cassandra Clare. (Actually, imo, Cassandra Clare is great at ending things, as her finales usually end up being my favorite in her series. Here's hoping this stays true for "City of Heavenly Fire"...)
I also liked the ending to "Shiver" entitled "Forever" by Maggie Stiefvater, "Harry Potter" (of course), and I actually did enjoy "Breaking Dawn"... "The Last Olympian" was a great ending to the "Percy Jackson" series, and Laura Josephsen ended her "Rising" series (and all her books, actually) tremendously.
And though "A Storm of Swords" isn't the last "A Game of Thrones" book by far, it was originally supposed to be. And since I've noticed a trend to GRRM's writing, I think that "The Winds of Winter" and "A Dream of Spring" will probably be just as good or better than ASoS, and end the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series very well. I still expect everyone to die, though, and pretty much have for a long time.
Oh! And I will say that though "The Lorien Legacies" series isn't over yet, it actually gets better with each book. Here's hoping the ending's the same way... But as of now, the first book: "I am Number Four" is the weakest in the series, which is a shame, as it made a lot of people stop reading before they got to the amazing parts.
The author has to end the story. Sometimes we don't like the ending or think the story should have ended differently, but the author had a version and ends it how they see fit. Also sometimes they kill off the best characters and that sucks.
From a war standpoint, Mockingjay was horrible--Katniss running around a futuristic battlefield with a bow and arrow? Knocking bombers out of the sky with a tiny bomb attached to the front of an arrow? Please!From an infiltration secret agent/spy stand point Mockingjay was horrible. Everything about breaking into the Capital was so contrived.
From a romance point of view, Mockingjay was horrible. Katniss is as emotional as a robot. Why does anyone like her, much less love her is beyond me.
I liked book one and the first 3/4ths of book two. Book three was trash.
Peter wrote: "From a war standpoint, Mockingjay was horrible--Katniss running around a futuristic battlefield with a bow and arrow? Knocking bombers out of the sky with a tiny bomb attached to the front of an ar..."Couldn't agree more, Peter. Imo, THG is highly overrated, and I don't think Katniss is as great as she's cracked up to be. I mean, she has some good qualities, sure (the series does, too), but she also has some terrible flaws. In fact, I wanted to strangle her through the entire series... THG definitely had some great ideas, but it really failed at execution towards the end.
I think the problem is mostly around the fact that the writers of these popular series realize that they're writing for an audience and the pressure of pleasing all the fans get to them. For the Hunger Games, I haven't read it in a few years so I might be slightly inaccurate, I just felt as though everything was a bit rushed and although there were some good themes present, I just really hated how the ending turned out.
Allegiant, I still have mixed feelings towards. As much as I hated the ending, I thought it worked and was done fairly well, regarding Tris. But the workings of the communities outside of the gates was too confusing and muddling. My hypothesis is that Veronica Roth didn't know how she was going to end it when she wrote the second book, because there was so much information in the third book and I didn't think a lot of it was foreshadowed. There was also a ton of back and forth, we never knew which group of people were evil or good because it was constantly changing in both Tris and Tobias's point of view.
David wrote: "I recently read the mistborn trilogy; all three books were great, but I'd say the 3rd book was the best."Agree that it's a wonderful trilogy, will have to re-read it sometime later~
Natalie wrote: "Personally, I thought Mockingjay was only slightly less enjoyable than the other books, mainly due to Peeta's temporary insanity and Katniss' lack of action. (I've never read the Divergent trilogy,..."Don't bother reading the series. It sucked.
I have thought quite the same thing about the rushed endings of both Mockingjay and Allegiant. The both of these books just lacked the texture in which they originally began with at the beginning of the series. I feel that the endings of each book were rather depressing and did not do justice at all to them. The way each characters lives ended up, Tris and Katniss, were rather hopeless, and defeated the purpose of the entire series. I feel that both authors, Veronica Roth and Suzanne Collins, could have written much better stories to the last installment. I agree with you on the respect that the authors seemed to rush through the last series, but I wouldn't presume them to be horrible, or awful books, they just weren't as good as the other 2 original ones.
I haven't read the Divergent series, but I did read the Hunger Games and I wasn't a fan of Mockingjay.It's true that not all series end the way you want them to and I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is:
- character assassination
- complete genre shifts mid series (going from urban fantasy to high fantasy, for example)
- fan pandering
- entire plots dropped for no reason
- lack of foreshadowing prior to a major reveal
- contradictions to previously stated information (aka retcons)
- sloppy, rushed endings
I'll also say I'm not a huge fan of when authors or publishers want to keep milking a series but the author is obviously bored with said series and just churns out subpar slop because the loyal and diehard fans will buy it no matter what.
Other series that descend into mediocrity with horrid endings I would add to the list are Bloodlines, Georgina Kincaid, and Dark Swan, all by Richelle Mead, The Secret Circle by L.J. Smith (not counting the ghost writer books), and the majority of the series by V.C Andrews (both her and her ghost writer). I'm expecting the Immortals series by Alyson Noel to go the same way.
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The Hunger Games series and the Divergent series are amazing series. They have both been read by millions of people. Both have and are becoming movies.
So is it just me or were the last books in each series just... horrible to anyone else? Now, again, I haven't finished Allegiant because it's dragging and it's not nearly as good as the previous books in the series. I just found both stories lacked their original point and purpose as the series, plot, and characters progressed. I started to hate the characters and the plot and the whole reason I started to love the series. I don't know if the authors planned this, or if they were rushed into an ending. I mean, I know authors know pretty much how the series will end, but it seems like the last books were just thrown together to reach the ending as quick as possible.
Or maybe this was just me. What do you think?