Go Set a Watchman, Initial Impressions_August 2015

[LA]

Yep, it was marketed as something it certainly isn't. Sadly, for many there is no joy in Mudville over this. Having been one of those who knew what to expect, I was really pleased to look at her work. Sometimes high expectations ruin books.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

CS wrote: "I am saying that GSAW has been marketed as a sequel and a "newly discovered book" when it is not. In that sense, readers are entitled to expect a valid sequel to TKAM, which GSAW is not. GSAW is a flawed and inconsistent early draft of TKAM, as has been discussed on this topic and elsewhere. "

Forgive me for disagreeing but this statement just isn't true. The Trail created a thread to discuss Harper Lee new release?! in which Howard mentioned NYT & Daily Beast articles dated February 4th that admit that the new book is actually a draft of what would become TKAM. The Daily Beast article says:

According to her publisher, the Watchman manuscript was written before Mockingbird. Lee’s editor at the time was especially taken with the flashbacks in the earlier version and asked her to fashion a novel out of Scout’s memories of childhood. “I was a first-time writer,” she said in a recent statement, “so I did as I was told.” Her revisions became To Kill a Mockingbird.

So, not to put too fine a point on it, Go Set a Watchman, never published, is the first draft of the book that’s sold more than 40 million copies.

The link to that article is here.

[LA]

Most likely, the reader reviews on Amazon have a different bent to them than the ones here in Goodreads, and that's what CS is describing, I think.

Im a retired geoscientist - not even vaguely a person of literary bent - so having been active in this Goodreads group (THANK YOU, sweet moderators!) is what's made me an informed reader. When all I had to rely on in the past was Amazon and publishers' blurbs, I might've been misled in my expectations too.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

LeAnne wrote: "Im a retired geoscientist."


I knew there was something I liked about you. Oddly enough, that happens to be my "if I had it to do all over again I'd be a..." career.

[CS]

Tom wrote: "CS wrote: "I am saying that GSAW has been marketed as a sequel and a "newly discovered book" when it is not. In that sense, readers are entitled to expect a valid sequel to TKAM, which GSAW is not...." ...this statement just isn't true. The Trail created a thread to discuss Harper Lee new release?! in which Howard mentioned NYT & Daily Beast articles dated February 4th that admit that the new book is actually a draft of what would become TKAM."

By "marketing" I mean the publisher's actions in selling the book. I based my statement on the Feb 3 press release by HarperCollins. The press release describes GSAW as "a newly discovered novel." Also, a senior VP for HarperCollins said, "This is a remarkable literary event...Reading in many ways like a sequel to Harper Lee's classic novel..."
http://corporate.harpercollins.com/us...
This press release was repeated in many news stories and blogs about GSAW at the time.

In an interview for an NPR article 4 days before GSAW's release, the senior VP for the publisher was quoted thus:
"Jonathan Burnham...says it's an entirely separate book that stands on its own. 'The notion that Go Set a Watchman is an early draft of Mockingbird I think we can discount,' Burnham says. 'It's a book written by a young woman set in her own times, quite unlike To Kill a Mockingbird, which casts itself back.' "
http://www.npr.org/2015/07/10/4218126...

This is why I take issue with the publisher's marketing.

Your points are well-taken. There was early info out there about GSAW as the first draft of TKAM. The Daily Beast nailed it. The Feb 3 NY Times article is less certain, even contradictory: GSAW is a complete book set 20 yrs later; no, it's a first draft of TKAM; it's a sequel; no, it's the parent of TKAM.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/boo...

As LeAnne says, the reviews on amazon.com reflect more average readers, as opposed to the reviews on goodreads. On amazon.com, the readers know that the book is controversial, but before reading it they are less aware that GSAW is a first draft of TKAM, and what that might mean for their reading experience.

[Stacie]

I have heard that Harper Lee has somewhat like dementia and although she agreed to let the book be published or signed something she didn't really understand what was happening. Her sister/publicist were taking advantage of her, and that she never wanted this published. I am not sure how much of this is true.

I am about 2 hours into the audiobook and so far it's just a lot of Southern cliches and not too smart discussions. That said it does capture the small town Southern town and is a good portrait of what Scout would grow up to be. This version of "Auntie" is much nicer than in TKAM!

It is nowhere near the literary behemoth TKAM is, as has been noted. At least it's neat to see how the writing process can work.

I may struggle to finish it.

[CS]

Stacie wrote: "Her sister/publicist were taking advantage of her..."

HL's sister Alice, an attorney, was HL's protector and guardian. She was never accused of any wrongdoing. In fact, her protection of HL was considered exemplary.

Alice died in November, 2014. Alice's law firm partner, Tonya Carter, took over as HL's attorney, and her short tenure has been controversial. By February 2015, within months of Alice's death, Carter "found" the manuscript for GSAW and sold it to HarperCollins. There have been questions about HL's valid consent to publication ever since. Carter has also been accused of isolating HL from her old friends, and consolidating HL's substantial fortune under her control. At least one commentator has said that Carter's actions are warning signs of elder abuse.

Wikipedia has done a decent job of summarizing the controversy, and you can click links to other articles in the footnotes if you want to know more. See the section on "Controversy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Set_...

[CS]

Mary wrote: "It's so hard to know the truth..."

When the contract for GSAW was signed, the Alabama Securities Commission investigated the transaction because of charges of elder abuse against HL. The ASC found no problem with HL's consent. In some ways, I think this investigation did more harm than good, because it gave the appearance that everything was OK. When you look beneath the surface, the ASC's job is to investigate financial fraud, not elder abuse. As far as I know, it made no medical determination of HL's condition to give proper consent. I think that's what's really needed here.

“We’re not medically trained. We don’t do mental capacity tests. But she knew she was publishing a book,” says Joseph Borg, director of the commission.
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/201...

The state agency that really handles elder abuse is the Alabama Dept of Human Resources, Adult Protective Services. They have not acted.
http://dhr.alabama.gov/services/Adult...

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Mary wrote: "It's so sad and so wrong. I don't think she would ever considered publishing it if she was in her right mind. Especially as an unedited and incomplete book."

There are differing accounts as to her knowledge/approval of the book's release. I don't think it is safe to state categorically that she is unaware of what is going on.

[LA]

There's also a chance that she is perfectly lucid, and after losing her sister, she thought - "who cares if it is far from perfect? Who cares if they judge me unfairly for it? Let's do it now while Im alive. It could be fun to have one last go at the literary world. Carpe the damn diem!"

Ive had months to chew on my thoughts and have decided that what is done is done. It may not have been her idea to publish it, but she went with it, regardless of capacity. I will not speculate anymore because after this many months, it feels like gossip. She deserves dignity, not uninformed pity from me.

Sorry! Im done :)

[Doug H]

*sticks nose in*

LeAnne wrote: "Carpe the damn diem!"

I'm SO stealing that!

*removes nose*

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

LeAnne wrote: "It may not have been her idea to publish it, but she went with it, regardless of capacity. I will not speculate anymore because after this many months, it feels like gossip. She deserves dignity, not uninformed pity from me.

Sorry! I'm done :) "

A great place to finish.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Mary wrote: "
I wasn't trying to stir up strife. I was just giving an opinion. Now I will bow out too. I leave in peace. "

No worries.

[LA]

Mary wrote: "Doug wrote: "*sticks nose in*

LeAnne wrote: "Carpe the damn diem!"

I'm SO stealing that!

*removes nose*"
No strife at all! When the myriad articles about her and the book first came out, all of us here wondered the same things. After soaking in the murky controversy for months now, I just need to pull myself out of worrying. Didn't mean to imply that others should follow suit - we have read the articles at different times is all :)



LOL!

I wasn't trying to stir up strife. I was just giving an opinion. Now I will bo..."

Mary wrote: "Doug wrote: "*sticks nose in*

LeAnne wrote: "Carpe the damn diem!"

I'm SO stealing that!

*removes no


LOL!

I wasn't trying to stir up strife. I was just giving an opinion. Now I will bo..."

[CS]

Tom wrote: "There are differing accounts as to her knowledge/approval of the book's release. I don't think it is safe to state categorically that she is unaware of what is going on."

I think that's valid. My father, who died in his sleep at age 90 last year, gradually slid into dementia at the end of his life. He always remembered me and my brother, right up to the end; and he was lucid enough to hold a conversation. But his memory was very poor: he couldn't remember what he had said 5 minutes before. His judgment also became more and more child-like. One day my brother and I found tens of thousands of dollars in cash in his apt. He told us that he had taken the money out of his bank account because the banks were paying low interest. He said it wasn't worth keeping your money in a bank anymore, so he was going to keep it in his apt. Of course my brother and I talked to him, then we returned the money to the bank.

My friends who are taking care of elderly parents have had similar problems. Their parents are lucid enough to function around people, but their judgment becomes more and more impaired. This is the most difficult stage of dementia, I think. Their awareness is going downhill, but you can't say they've lost it entirely. It's a time elderly people are most vulnerable to cons, or other actions not in their best interest.

There's enough evidence to justify an investigation of Harper Lee's condition, this time by competent medical personnel. That's my opinion.

LeAnne wrote: "...she thought - 'who cares if it is far from perfect? Who cares if they judge me unfairly for it? Let's do it now while Im alive. It could be fun to have one last go at the literary world..."

I think Harper Lee would have cared enough about her readers not to do that. Saying "WTF, who cares what people think! I'm publishing another book!" That's an act of impulsive egotism, and I believe that in her right mind HL is better than that. I've mentioned the distress and confusion from HL's fans in the reviews on amazon. The best writers I know are keenly aware of their readers, and what their books mean to them.

[Stacie]

Vas, Mary, LeAnne, Tom, and others. You all bring up good points. There is so much we/science don't know about these types of diseases and the brain, when they "start" and how they manifest in each person individually.

It is likely we will never know the truth. But she had so long to publish it and she never did. Until her sister died...and I think that is key. Perhaps she looked out for Harper the entire timeline, and with her gone the publisher did as they please.

If it brings some people joy though, great. Maybe it will get more people to read TKAM. I don't think it will reflect badly on her in the end given the strength of TKAM.

[Stacie]

Sorry Vas= CS. Damn autocorrect!

[Ruthie]

So, back to feelings about reading the book... my 18 year old daughter asked me to pre-order the book and she devoured it and enjoyed "finding out what happened next". I however was reluctant to tarnish my (somewhat vague) memories of a cherished novel.

I finally began reading it a few days ago, and although I am very glad an editor helped Lee restructure and improve what eventually became TKAM, I am also finding many things in GSAW that are similar to what I have heard about that town at that time. Specifically, I attended a talk at Drew University given by Mary Badham, the actress who played Scout in the movie. She spoke about her childhood in the South and her experiences filming the movie. She also spoke about returning home after living in California and being very uncomfortable with the way Blacks were treated in her town and more specifically in her home. Having been exposed to a more integrated society and a more enlightened way of thinking about race relations, she was distressed and no longer comfortable there.

At the end during a Q&A period another woman from NYC spoke and shared how she had come from the same town as Ms Badham and remembered all the men having "meetings" just like those described in the book. She was younger than Harper Lee, and the two women discussed how this had happened in families where Black housekeepers and others had always been considered a part of the family (at least by the children they helped raise). Both women shared how they had been very happy to leave that town and live in cities where more enlightened views were held.

With this discussion in mind I am finding GSAW very interesting and, to me, it feels very autobiographical. I am not loving the book - almost done, but I feel it is more Lee's story that TKAM, and often true stories are not as brilliant as fiction...

I think the two books serve each other well and, if nothing else, are a good example to writers and students - very rarely is the first draft the one that gets published! Many authors have spoken of rewriting their novels from different viewpoints, in some cases up to 40 drafts are needed before a book is even ready to be submitted to a publisher! I keep telling my kids this when I look over their essays and creative writing assignments, because they always get offended when I suggest edits/changes!

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Ruthie wrote: "GSAW very interesting and, to me, it feels very autobiographical. I am not loving the book - almost done, but I feel it is more Lee's story that TKAM, and often true stories are not as brilliant as fiction."

I had the same impression.

[Book Concierge]

I tried to read GSAW as a separate book ... NOT a sequel or part of a series with TKAM.

Taken alone, it seemed to me that the central theme was that moment in every "grown" child's life when s/he realizes that a parent is NOT a god, but a human with faults. That tumble off the pedestal is always more traumatic for the child than for the parent (who always knew s/he was not a god).

That being said, the book clearly needs an editor. The writing is not nearly so smooth and polished as TKAM, but I can clearly see the writer Lee will become.

What I wish the publishers had done with GSAW is to change the names of the characters. Half the kerfuffle over the book was readers discovering that Atticus was a racist! Oh, My! Using all the same character names forced comparisons between the two books ... forced us to wonder why Dill isn't in the picture ... forced us to say, "But THAT character died in TKAM, how could s/he be around now?" etc. Simply changing the character names would have eliminated much of that.

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Good point! But I think I read that they didn't want to change a thing, didn't even edit it, just published it "as is". And I'm sure the publisher loved the controversy because it ramped up sales.

[[deleted user]]

I had a question regarding the portrayal of Atticus between the 2 books . I'm new in here and not sure where to post this question .

I haven't read the "Watchman" book, but have just started a book called My Father and Atticus Finch: A Lawyer's Fight for Justice in 1930s Alabama.
In the preface, the author starts talking about the 2 different portrayals of Atticus between the books . I'm not sure when or if I'll get to the Watchman book, and really wanted to get through this one since it's a new release library copy and I have it for a limited amount of time .
Without ruining the other book with spoilers, could someone tell me if the new book makes Atticus out to be a completely different sort of person in the book ? Different personality or Racist in any way ?
I'm just a bit confused by the opening of this book and whether the newer book paints him in a harsher light ?
Thanks for any help .

[LA]

Hey, Julie - great to have you with us. I would say the difference between the two Atticuses only lies in the perspective of his daughter, Scout.

In TKAM, when he does the right thing and stands up for a man of color because it is that man's legal right and it fits Atticus' morality, she idolizes him. Any of us with healthy childhoods probably adored our parents when we were in elementary school, but Atticus took a brave and unpopular stance, thereby assuming a Christlike goodness in Scout's eyes. For those of us who read the book and or saw the movie, we saw Atticus this way.

I am not sure if you have read about the timing of the two books, so forgive me if you know this already. Go Set a Watchman was Harper Lee's first book. The book is told from the perspective of Scout, but she is in her 20s and lives in New York City. I'll try to withhold spoilers, but your very question itself goes to the heart of the book.

She comes home to Alabama to check in on her aging father. She learns that he has been spying on a segregationist group from within. While he believes in racial equality, he thinks that the average member of the black community has been unfairly denied access to solid education, and therefore lacking that education and knowledge, most of them are unfit to vote.

Is that racist today? Was that racist in the 60s when she wrote this? Would it have been racist in the 1930s when the book was set?

I believe that the authors intention was to open up a discussion of what is and what was racist. Her publisher did not think the book would be very successful, but she loved the little flashbacks that the adult Scout had. The flashbacks were the basic plot lines of TKAM. The publisher told her to shelve her current book, and to write another book based on the flashbacks. That second book was TKAM.

Finding out that there is no Santa Claus

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Julie wrote: "Without ruining the other book with spoilers, could someone tell me if the new book makes Atticus out to be a completely different sort of person in the book ? Different personality or Racist in any way ? ."

It is now commonly accepted that Go Set a Watchman is the original draft that Nelle Harper Lee submitted to her publisher whose response was that she had the makings of a good book but that it needed a lot of work. Harper basically gutted it and rewrote it from the ground up and ended up with To Kill a Mockingbird.

This is important because it means that GSaW is not a sequel to TKaM. It does look at the the characters through the eyes of an adult Scout (Jean Marie). As both books portray Atticus through her eyes, one describes him as a daughter would see him, practically perfect in every way. The other looks at him through the eyes of a young woman who has spent time Up North and sees her father through less than rose-colored glasses.

This book gave me a lot to think about and I am very glad I read it, mostly because it enhanced my appreciation for my all-time favorite novel, To Kill a Mockingbird.

[LA]

...finding out there is no Santa Claus is the kind of feeling that the adult Scout had upon returning to Alabama. Readers and fans of TKAM felt the same way reading Watchman. Atticus was not a racist in my opinion, but he was not perfect either.

Hope that helps!

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

LeAnne wrote: "Is that racist today? Was that racist in the 60s when she wrote this? Would it have been racist in the 1930s when the book was set?"

These are very important questions to be considered when reading this book.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

LeAnne wrote: "...finding out there is no Santa Claus "

What!!?!?! I thought this was a no-spoiler board! My whole life is ruined now!

[LA]

LOLOLOLOL!!!!' Ho ho ho, Tom! :)

[[deleted user]]

Thank you ,LeAnne and Tom . That gives me the answers I needed . I was a bit confused with the preface in the book I just started , not having read GSAW . I have had mixed feelings on it , as a lot of the reviews seem to also have . I think, just from what I've heard, I'd prefer TKAM myself .
I'm not sure why, but I like a lot of books that are told from a youngster's viewpoint , even if the book continues on into their adulthood, my favorite part is when the characters were kids . Maybe it brings back some good memories of growing up ?

Anyhow, maybe we all see our parents in a new light as adults than as kids .

So, even though the second published book was the first written book, does the second book have any of the main content of the first book, or is it a completely different book ?

I guess I'm wondering if it has the same framework of Scout's childhood, but this newer published book just portrays her as an adult ? ( Or does she have a totally different childhood, or it isn't mentioned much ? )

Maybe I should just read the book at some point ....

[LA]

Skip Watchman. Read TKAM - it is terrific. There are some rollover characters in the adult Scout's life but others from her childhood are absent. I swear, you will not miss much skipping Watchman. That publisher back in the 60s was a very bright woman.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Julie wrote: "I'm wondering if it has the same framework of Scout's childhood, but this newer published book just portrays her as an adult ? ( Or does she have a totally different childhood, or it isn't mentioned much ? )

Maybe I should just read the book at some point .... "

It has many of the same characters but few if any of the same events, and some of those are different.

I disagree with LeAnne (and many others) on this. I believe both books should be read back to back. You may find some of the scenes in GSaW unsettling but, to me at least, I was able to see Atticus as a human being with imperfections rather than some ideal to be aspired to.

[[deleted user]]

It's nice to get 2 opposite viewpoints on GSAW --- that's sort of why I have yet to read it . I pay a lot of attention to reviews in here , and they seem to be pretty much mixed from what I've seen .
I read TKAM many years ago, maybe 20 or 30 ? I listened to it on audio this year , just to refresh my memory a bit , but I think I retained more by reading it in print, rather than listening to the audio . I may re-read it at some point . I'm still on the fence about her other book. I think I'm sort of biased that I won't like it even before I give it a proper chance .
SO .... we shall see , For now, it's on the back burner . I have a copy of it ,so maybe someday I'll want to pull it out and give it a try . I think it would be a good idea to read the books back to back to get the full effect of them both .

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Julie, To Kill A Mockingbird is my favorite book of all time, and I've read it 5 times. It never gets old for me. Having said that, I read GSaW with the attitude that it was a part of literary history, since it was the germ for TKaM. That enabled me to see the 2 different views of Atticus without destroying my opinion of TKaM. Hope that helps.

[Tom, "Big Daddy"]

Diane wrote: "That enabled me to see the 2 different views of Atticus without destroying my opinion of TKaM. ."

As the geologist would say, "My sediments, exactly."

[[deleted user]]

Thanks for the comment , Diane . I'm not a huge re-reader of books , although there are a few I've read more than once.
I think the older I get, the more different books I feel like I need to read , which may sound sort of odd. There will still be new books coming out long after I'm gone so I'll really never catch up and get them all read .
That being said, it's also nice to revisit old favorites from time to time or go back to one that you remember from decades ago .

Would you say Mockingbird is the one you have read the most times ? And do you have others that you have read just about as much ?

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Mockingbird - 5 reads
Country of the Pointed Firs - 3 reads
I've read several other books twice for various reasons. I know what you mean about so many new ones to get to, but the two mentioned above take me to places and times that I need to revisit for the way they make me feel.

[[deleted user]]

Sounds perfectly logical to me. I have heard of the other book you mentioned but haven read it . I'll have to look it up sometime .

[Diane, "Miss Scarlett"]

Country of the Pointed Firs takes place in Maine in the 1890's. It's a community of strong women in an isolated fishing village taking care of themselves and each other, and finding beauty and joy in harsh surroundings.