Villette -Week 1 - Chapters 1 - 7

[Deborah]

Lisa Ann wrote: "Renee wrote: "So glad to have you join us Lisa Ann! Lucy is definitely an unreliable narrator, but it's interesting to see what she includes and what she omits. I agree that her actions often belie..."

We do all filter but Lucy is truly unreliable. One word of advice, our discussions may give away things you haven't read yet so you might want to read the threads after you read that section. If knowing a bit more before hand is ok, then it doesn't matter when you read them. I'm really happy to have you join the discussion and look forward to your posts

[[deleted user]]

Thank you for the advice Deborah.

[Trudy]

Polly seems to be the focus of these early chapters. An odd little child. So serious.
It seems a really strange introduction to the entire book, since Polly then disappears from the story after the few chapters in which we get to know her character. While very little is revealed of the narrator.
I'm guessing that Polly may reappear at some unexpected point in the novel as an adult.

[[deleted user]]

Trudy- You summed up my initial thoughts about the story and narrative quite well.

I am far enough in the book now that the mystery of who or what Villette is has finally been revealed. Well, I am thankful that I did not have to read the entire novel to figure out the meaning of the title. :)

[Rut]

Lisa Ann wrote: "I am just starting the novel now and drawing some insights from the above comments. My initial reaction to the book shares the same sense of confusion, as the main focus of the narrator's attention..."

Welcome Lisa Ann! That’s right, you will soon know what Villette is, I must admit I did not know it at the beginning either. I assumed it referred to a character, maybe the protagonist, it turns out that was not so.
Again, be very welcome!

[Clarissa]

I know I am woefully behind everyone else, but now I have some time to read 'Villette', I really wanted to join in the discussion. It looks like it's going to be a very interesting book.
The notes in my edition focus on the importance of the Catholic and Protestant divide, (which in truth I don't know much about), one of the indications being that Villette (Little town) and Labassecour (the farmyard) are supposed to be mockingly named Brussels and Belgium. Also by making up fictional names she allows her contemporary readership to imagine it was France which fed into the anti-French and anti-Catholic feelings of Bronte's time. If anyone is better informed I'd be interested to know, or maybe I'll discover information when/if I catch up with the reading!

My own thoughts echoed many others on here, that Lucy is a watcher and not involved in her own life at the beginning. It is a noticeable oddity that there is very little interaction with her as a character, she is almost like an omniscient narrator. I took this to be symbolic of the wider societal facts that young women were not in control of their futures. The juxtaposition with her suddenly making the decision to go aboard with no plan imbues her with a sense of wild desperation which contrasts with what appears to be her naturally staid personality.
I thought of both Jane Eyre and Agnes Grey in the presentation of moral and religious stoicism and certainty. Although I've recently read Thornfield Hall
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
which made me think how unsuited the Bronte protagonists are to keeping company with spirited children!

The only other thing, that I don't think anyone has mentioned in this thread (sorry if I missed it!) is the emphasis on money and how it dictates your social position. Going out into London and then her voyage to the continent, Lucy is often mentioning her money, in tips, how much she has left, what things cost, the respect she gets, her clothes etc. I found it interesting how she makes an effort with the waiter to make it know she is from a good family and isn't a servant. It made me wonder if in modern society these distinctions still apply? My instant thought is that if you appear richer you'll get better service, although I recall from psychology lectures that it is the best looking people who are most esteemed in western society and have a totally different experience of the world than their ugly counterparts.

[Deborah]

Clari wrote: "I know I am woefully behind everyone else, but now I have some time to read 'Villette', I really wanted to join in the discussion. It looks like it's going to be a very interesting book.
The notes ..."

Don't worry about being behind. Your comments are well worth waiting for :)

[Trudy]

The Catholic - Protestant divide was very strong in English minds. Centuries of war within and without leave deep divides. There are strains of the hate and fear of Catholics in other Victorion works. I can think of specific anti-Catholic characters in Gaskell's works.
It was a very real, and hugely important divide in English-French relations.

[[deleted user]]

Clari- What edition of Villette are you reading?

Also, you made some interesting comments (from a sociological/psychological perspective) in your last paragraph. I personally believe that even within our current society, emphasis on money does play an important role in perceived social status and power too. Given Lucy's precarious situation and the fact she seemed to be a keen observer, perhaps she figured out that it was potentially beneficial to try and appear to be part of a higher social class. Since Lucy was searching for a way to make a living and did not have any family to rely on for long-term assistance, I can only imagine that she was slightly obsessed with money. Perhaps she was also jealous of other individuals who had better economic and family situations.

Finally, do not be worried about joining in late. I started reading Villette during the end of August and recently needed to set the book aside to finish another novel for an upcoming book club meeting. I am currently behind in the discussion as well.

[Clarissa]

Lisa Ann wrote: "Clari- What edition of Villette are you reading?

Also, you made some interesting comments (from a sociological/psychological perspective) in your last paragraph. I personally believe that even wi..."

Thank you for your replies.

I am reading a Penguin Classics edited by Helen M. Cooper. I'm assuming it must be for an international audience as she puts notes explaining landmarks in London etc. Out of interest would people outside the UK need telling that it is the Thames that runs through London, and St Paul's is a big cathedral? My geography is awful so I never know what is in common knowledge as I know next to nothing!

Regarding Lucy in this first section, do you think she is a psychologically believable character?

[Clarissa]

Trudy wrote: "The Catholic - Protestant divide was very strong in English minds. Centuries of war within and without leave deep divides. There are strains of the hate and fear of Catholics in other Victorion wor..."

Which characters can you think of, Trudy? I think it is obviously a whole subtext I've missed.
The thing that did stand out in this sort of area for me was the manner in which Bronte assumes and writes as if her audience will be in natural agreement, that English people are a superior race.

[Trudy]

Yes, this superior attitude seemed to be common in the English. Catholics were looked down upon.

In "North and South" Dixon is afraid to go to Spain for fear that being in Catholic country might influence her toward becoming a Papist! And Margaret, a loyal Anglican, was sorely displeased to see her brother become a Catholic.

In "Wives & Daughters" Squire Hamley regularly speaks in derogatory terms of the French, including their Catholicism.

[Brit]

I suspect the "we-they" mentality can be found in every culture. It is easier to spot in other cultures. Something like seeing the splinter in you brother's eye, but not the log in your own comes to mind.

As I read Villette, I found prejudices both on the English and on the French sides. Because of the distance in times, and because this is a story, I find this interesting and amusing.

[[deleted user]]

Clari wrote: "Regarding Lucy in this first section, do you think she is a psychologically believable character? "

Thanks for listing the specific edition you are reading as my book does not contain notes. I am certain they are helpful for understanding some of geographical and religious undertones within the story.

Due to her unreliable narrative I am assuming that Lucy is a psychologically unreliable character as well. Perhaps she presents to the reader the same "face" as she presents to those she interacts within the story. As to what is really going on in her mind, that is a completely different story.

[Clarissa]

Lisa Ann wrote: "Clari wrote: "Regarding Lucy in this first section, do you think she is a psychologically believable character? "

Thanks for listing the specific edition you are reading as my book does not contai..."

How are you managing with the French, Lisa Ann?
My edition picks up lots of Biblical allusions in Bronte's writing, most of which I would miss, that fits in with a reading of the novel as positioning Protestant beliefs and practices against Catholic ones.

[[deleted user]]

Clari- I am doing fine with the French since I figured out my kindle has a "translator" function, if I press and highlight the phrase. Whew, that makes it much easier! However, I do believe I am missing out on some of the subtle points in the book and might have benefited from reading an edition with notes in it.

Since I recently resumed reading Villette, I have noticed there are quite a few Protestant and Catholic religious references within the book. Given the time period and setting, that would serve to add some socially relevant points to an otherwise fictitious story.

[Clarissa]

Lisa Ann wrote: "Clari- I am doing fine with the French since I figured out my kindle has a "translator" function, if I press and highlight the phrase. Whew, that makes it much easier! However, I do believe I am mi..."

ah the wonders of technology:)
I've kind of found that I enjoy books more when I read them as a real book though.
I'm never sure whether to look up every note as it can make reading very choppy, but generally I am at the moment, as I don't want to miss anything.

[[deleted user]]

That is a good point Clari. Stopping to look at individual notes can definitely interrupt the flow of a story.

[Janice (JG)]

Clari wrote: "ah the wonders of technology:)
I've kind of found that I enjoy books more when I read them as a real book though..."

I notice that if I've read more than 3 or 4 books in a row on my Kindle, I start to crave tree books. I'm currently reading 4 tree books, and no Kindle books... to soothe my soul, I guess :)

I have Villette on Kindle -- with no translations -- and in paperback, with translations. I'd rather read the paperback and get the translations, even at the cost of interrupting the flow.

[Deborah]

Janice George (JG) wrote: "Clari wrote: "ah the wonders of technology:)
I've kind of found that I enjoy books more when I read them as a real book though..."

I notice that if I've read more than 3 or 4 books in a row on my ..."

I'm a tree book girl and always will be.

[Clarissa]

Deborah wrote: "I'm a tree book girl and always will be. "

There is a definite difference. Although the range of free books on kindle is amazing.