Jane Austen discussion
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Pride and Prejudice
Why did Mr. Darcy think Eliza loved him?
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Joni
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Feb 14, 2014 11:39AM
To which proposal are you referring? The initial one I think was believed assured of a positive reply largely because of his station in life. He knew she was of an age to be married, and available. What more assurance would an arrogant man need?
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I was of the opinion he thought their banter was flirting.
He definitely thought that because of his station she would no doubt accept him - it would be so beneficial to her, how could she refuse? He never considered she would say no because of his station. And yes, he believed their (what Lizzy thought) arguments (and Darcy thought) banter was flirting.
But what other than his arrogance and his super inflated ego???? I have very strong objections when it comes to mr Darcy. His being such a heartthrob once again proves what huge fools we women can be. He is actually one of the most flawed male characters of Austen. He has repeatedly behaved badly,has been a real "badash" yet all is forgiven in the end and he is simply irresistible. And who cares about mr Knightley, or worse Cournla Brandon? On the contrary, their steady good behavior is not considered as charm but as a disadvantage. How, how silly that is!!! I mean, if a man had offended you as much as Darcy offended Elisabeth, would you really forget all about it and love him in the end? I call this lack of dignity. And don't start with he changed things. We are what we do or say. Not what we think. (Marianne Dashwood)
He makes his first proposal because he admires her. She's not chasing him like Caroline Bingley. She's intelligent, has the potential to be a good conversationalist and she knows her own mind. She's not a simpering miss. He's attracted to her boldness of spirit. He thinks, in his own arrogant mind, he's doing her a great honor. He's stalked her the whole time she's been in Kent and they've exchanged a lot of witty banter. What woman in the kingdom WOULDN'T want to marry an estate in Derbyshire and 10,000 a year? or so he thinks... AIKATERINI wrote: "But what other than his arrogance and his super inflated ego???? I have very strong objections when it comes to mr Darcy. His being such a heartthrob once again proves what huge fools we women can ..."
He changes for her though and that's what makes him a romantic hero. "Such I was from 7 to Seven and Twenty until I met you, dearest, loveliest, Elizabeth." He can't be the romantic hero until he changes his behavior. He's kind to his sister and his staff, he's just awkward and rude around Elizabeth. Remember, her opinion of him was colored by what she knew from Wickham's side of the story. Once she had Darcy's side of the story, she changed her mind. He and I would probably kill each other within 5 minutes though. A lot of women just love Colin Firth in a wet shirt and haven't really read the book.
Exactly Qnpoohbear. She is different from all the other woman he has come across, who simper and swoon and throw themselves at him, or rather, his money, estate and social position. And I completely agree with you with the second part as well. Darcy is not a 'badass' as it was put - he is a good man who is rather social awkward, has been brought up proud and who is fed up of woman throwing themselves at him. Lizzy was prejudice towards him as well. Jane always thought Lizzy disliked him too strongly too quickly and without proper foundation. And she was right.
It is true many people don't love Mr Darcy but love Colin Firth. I, however, do love Mr Darcy from the book for although I love the series and his portrayal, the wet shirt scene is not my favourite scene!
Soph and Qnpoohbear,I agree; Darcy was not a bad guy, because bad guys don’t change, no matter how the romance novels might wish to have it. Bad behavior can change, but not a person’s nature. So Darcy, as a clueless male, thought Elizabeth’s behavior towards him, how she “never spoke to you without rather wishing to give you pain than not,” was her singling him out for attention. From what we see of her, she does direct her wit to him more than to anyone else, and he admired her for the “liveliness of her mind.”
In a way I see a little where he was coming from for she did direct her wit towards him much more than anyone else. So in that sense, she was singling him out.
It is understandable that he would be very careful, which appears rude, with woman for there are so many fortune hunters around and matching making mothers would look for the smallest thing which could trap Darcy into a marriage so no wonder he is careful not to give too much attention and give rise to expectations. He even tells himself to stop showing Lizzy such attention when she is staying At Netherfield when Jane is ill.
I agree guys, we know the Bennet girls better than Darcy at this point so I could see why Mrs Bennet would seem like a fortune hunter and Charlotte did warn that Jane should show more than she feels so I can see why he would separate his friend. I agree Darcy saw her flirting as a sign she may be interested but ultimately I think he never thought someone would refuse him!I do love Austen's Darcy, his ill breed comment at the assembly I can forgive, his proposal well all I will say is oh dear. But I never saw him as bad, haughty perhaps but is not that consistent with the circles he was from? Apart from what I mention he was always nice, he saw how rude Caroline and Mrs Hurst were and tried to involve Elizabeth in the walk at Netherfield which she declined and he was pleasant during the dance at Netherfield. If we are to believe Mr Bennet and Darcy probably had to give Wickham near 10,000 equivalent to a quarter of a million today, do you know someone who would do that? We know he did not do it to win Elizabeth as he only gained hope after Lady Catherine told him of her confrontation with her.
I completely agree. And a very good point about what he does for the family regarding Lydia. It was not his obligation to do it, especially because Lizzy had refused him! And the amount of money he laid out... Wow
Exactly! And yes Darcy truly was a wealthy man!
I don't think Darcy was sure that Elizabeth loved him; more likely he supposed it didn't matter because, as the second eldest of five girls with very little money and no aristocratic connections would jump at the chance of marrying Mr. Darcy of Pemberley. Austen writes that after proposing in a way that emphasizes the degradation of marrying someone beneath him, he: "spoke of apprehension and anxiety, but his countenance expressed real security."Later, after his second proposal, he says that, "I came to you without a doubt of my reception." and that he believed Elizabeth was "wishing, expecting my addresses."
J. wrote: "I don't think Darcy was sure that Elizabeth loved him; more likely he supposed it didn't matter because, as the second eldest of five girls with very little money and no aristocratic connections wo..."spot on!
I think that Darcy made some huge strides in becoming a better man as the novel progressed. Once he truly fell in love with Elizabeth, his whole character changed. Certainly his anonymous monetary payment to Wickham, which then "saved" the family of the woman he loved, is a prime example. That being said, he was quite obnoxious in the early part of the novel - too proud, selfish, and conceited. Mostly, I think this was his outward appearance and was used as a buffer between him and those that would attempt to use him for his money. I think that Elizabeth's initial behavior toward Darcy both surprised and intrigued him because he was certainly not used to being argued with or brushed off. And perhaps his first proposal was more out of infatuation and excitement than love. Eliza was also surprised by Darcy's initial attitude as she was not accustomed to such ungentlemanly behavior and found it deeply offensive (understandably so!) The account from Wickham only served to amplify her already formed prejudice.
Underneath it all, Elizabeth and Darcy are very similar in their personalities. I wish that JA would have written a sequel...would have loved to see how she thought they should/would have turned out!! :)
He is wonderful! And he does it without expecting anything in return. He doesn't want her to know what he has done because he doesn't want her to love him or feel obligated to him out of gratitude!
Soph wrote: "Exactly Qnpoohbear. She is different from all the other woman he has come across, who simper and swoon and throw themselves at him, or rather, his money, estate and social position. And I complet..."
Mine either. I prefer the one after that when he rushes out still tying his bow or scarf (or whatever that was) just to keep her there longer. And the scene at the end when they are walking to Meryton and he proposes again. He is so cute in those scenes.
I love when he rushing out tying his cravat really quickly so that she doesn't rush off! And the second proposal - he is so sweet in those scenes. He is also so sweet when they are walking around Pemberley and it's all a little awkward and he asks about introducing his sister to her!
Exactly! He is wonderful- and that is all how we know that he is genuinely in love rather than just infatuated :) And Elizabeth's ultimate acceptance when she realizes her feelings for him as well. Gives me goosebumps! :)
It is so nice to have people understand my obsession!! Love it :)
I completely understand!
I am just as obsessed!
oh wow you guys are making me want to reach for my DVD or should I say Dvd's I have the 1980, 3 x 1995 (well you can never have too many) and the 2005 which one shall I watch!!
I vote for a marathon!!!! Watch them all ;)
lol I would love to Madgratess but I have a law assignment due!:( I have not seen the 1940s one maybe I should track it down.
Oh bummer. Well then, I vote for the 1995 one bc that is my favorite and I could just watch it over and over!! That being said, I haven't seen the 1940s one either...so that could be a good option as well :) you really can't go wrong with any P&P! Enjoy!!
The 2005 is a good one when you are short of time! I have three versions of the 1995 as well! :D and the 1980s is also good. Worth tracking the 1940s one down so long as you remember it's a proper Hollywood movie and ignore the costumes!
Yes I agree Soph and I managed to track down the 1940s one this evening and have ordered it!
Yes it is worth a watch! They do change things but it was made in 1940! Olivier as Darcy is fun to see! Let me know what you think :)
I LOVE the 1940 version! It was the first adaptation I saw and even though the costumes are bad and some plot points are changed I think they captured the spirit of the story really well. Personally I think they may have cast Colin Firth as 1995 Darcy with Olivier in mind, he is along the same lines. Greer Garson is too old to be Elizabeth but she is so beautiful and spirited that I can overlook it! Hope you enjoy :)
Thx guys it's on it's way from Korea so not sure when it will get to me!
Now I have to watch it too!!
I love the 1940 film, but agree with the others, it has to be watched as a film and not compared as an adaptation. :)
The Olivier version airs on TCM and PBS in America. It was based on a popular Broadway comedy rather than the novel. Everyone complains the costumes are wrong but right in the beginning Mrs. Bennet says "This is the best news since the Battle of Waterloo!" so obviously it doesn't take place in 1812!
Which version is your favorite overall?
Qnpoohbear thx great observation, I will take on board everyone's advice and pretend I've never seen a P&P adaptation before lol Piece of cake!! sorry I know ive led us off topic but considering it refers to P&P and think we can be excused
Totally bizarre, but I'm watching a show on NBC (The Blacklist) and Jennifer Ehle is one of the actresses! She is now a blonde with an American accent! Haha. Such a coincidence...off to watch P&P again tmrw :))
Well the 2005 is a 2 hour film which, while the plot isn't entirely accurate due to time constraints of a film, the scenery/filming locations (cinematography I think I should call it) and the music and things are beautiful and it is a good film, which (well I think) is on the whole well cast. Worth a watch even if it's a compressed story into the 2 hour length. 1995 mini series you know about - long and so accurate, well cast etc
1980 is another mini series. It is pretty accurate, especially with language from the book and the casting is also good. It is older and you can tell that but it is another well done series worth watching.
The 1940 is a film, the first ever Austen adaptations to be made, however it is better to think of it as inspired by, for it is very Hollywood and they used costumes from the film 'gone with the wind' and so they shifted the time is was set in. The casting is good and Olivier as Darcy is worth watching. The plot isn't accurate as they change a few things but the capture the spirit of pride and prejudice. Also worth a watch.
My favourites are the 2005 and the 1995 :)
Wow lots of questions....Darcy assumed Elizabeth would be honored to be married to him when they were in Kent. I think he took her gruff manner as a way to attract him.
Elizabeth believed the same that he assumed what he wanted he would get. And had he not betrayed her sister she may have accepted him.
I think Bingleys sister was very aware of his feelings but wanted him for herself. Everyone else probably assumed their stations of life were too far apart.
This is the best love story ever and nothing in it seems unreal. The change of emotions and affections seem very realistic.
I agree with you, mostly. The only thing I don't agree with is that if Darcy hadn't split up Jane and Bingley Lizzy might have accepted him. I don't think she would have! She would only marry for love and she was not in love with him then, far from it! Wickham and that history still played on her mind as well as his slight of her and his general uncivil and proud behaviour. It would have been a 'no' but the Jane and Bingley thing made it a 'definite no!' I would say!
I agree with Soph. At that point in the novel Lizzie was starting to warm up to Darcy, but in no way was she in love. Keeping Jane apart from Bingley served to amplify her distrust and prejudice. Elizabeth was very unsure of Darcy and still kept her guard up around him. Only when she let her guard down was she able to fall in love. And only then was she able to even think about marriage.
