The Sound and the Fury (July - Aug 2015)

[Susan]

Proposed schedule for The Sound and the Fury buddy read. All are welcome to join!

July 27-Aug 2: April Seventh, 1928 pages 3-75
Aug 3 - 9: June Second, 1910 pages 76-179
Aug 10-16: April Sixth, 1928 pages 180-264
Aug 17-23: April Eighth, 1928 pages 265-321, plus appendix

The longest section is the second one, which is earlier in time than the others which range from 60-75 pages

[Susan]

from Wikipedia: The title of the novel is taken from Macbeth's famous soliloquy of act 5, scene 5 of William Shakespeare's Macbeth:

Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[Bea]

Thanks, Susan, for the quote. It makes sense when compared with the audio description given in the other thread.

[Amanda]

Good job we have a week ... I have to remember where I last had it! It was in my hand, and I was standing ....

[Susan]

I found this note really helpful in making sense of when parts of Benjy's story were happening: "Benjy's caretaker changes to indicate the time period: Luster in the present, T.P. in Benjy's teenage years, and Versh during Benjy's infancy and childhood."

Also, there are 2 Quentin characters. That confused me for a long time. The male happens in earlier scenes; I think he's Benjy & Caddy's brother. The female Quentin is in later scenes; she's in the next generation, named after her uncle. (view spoiler)[ ... who is maybe also her father ... I can't tell for sure ... (hide spoiler)]

[Susan]

I think this isn't a spoiler, so it's ok to post even if not everyone is done with this week's section. I really love how accurately Benjy describes what he sees. Probably because he can't interpret it. For example, he talks about the fire in the mirror. And he's very attuned to smells and sounds as well as what he sees. After I got used to it, it began to seem almost poetic to me.

[Susan]

Shall we each say when we've finished a section, so we know when it's safe to make comments or ask questions that might include spoilers? I finished "April Seventh." I'll take a break till Monday before starting the next section.

correction after Bea's comment below:
I'll take a break until Monday, August 3rd before starting the next section.

[Bea]

Susan, our schedule has us starting to read on 7/27! I don't plan to start reading until next week.

[Susan]

Bea wrote: "Susan, our schedule has us starting to read on 7/27! I don't plan to start reading until next week."

Thanks, Bea! After setting it up, I don't know how I got off by a week. I'll try to reset my internal clock! :)

[Bea]

HaHa! I didn't even notice that you were the one that set it up when I responded. Now that's funny!

[Tien]

I'm joining in! I rolled Oprah's list for Round 3 and found there isn't a book i particularly want to read but this book is on the list so yep it'll do :)

[Susan]

Tien wrote: "I'm joining in! I rolled Oprah's list for Round 3 and found there isn't a book i particularly want to read but this book is on the list so yep it'll do :)"

Glad to have you, Tien!

[Tien]

I'm so CONFUSED! the language is slowing me down too... the southern thing :p

[Bea]

I haven't completed my reading for this week, but I see the difficulty. This story rambles from one topic to another memory to another topic in Benjamin's voice. I started it Monday and planned to complete my reading yesterday; but a group meeting took up my whole day, and I got NO READING DONE!

[Tien]

those numbers... I thought they were chapters / parts at first but are they the time (clock)... it helps in determining which timeline we're reading?

um, ok, I've just read the summary for Part 1 on Wikipedia and err, I didn't get half of those from reading the book! Thanks, Wikipedia ;p

[Susan]

Tien wrote: "I'm so CONFUSED! the language is slowing me down too... the southern thing :p"

That's one reason I find the audiobook a big help.

[Amanda]

I've read part 1, and am so confused. I felt like I was being dragged through time and space, when time and space doesn't matter.

I am correct, aren't I? Benjy is mixing up the current day with memory ?

Why did they change his name ? It feels like everyone has more than one name, and I can't keep track of who is who. Very confusing! Hoping the later parts will clarify.

[Susan]

Amanda wrote: "I've read part 1, and am so confused. I felt like I was being dragged through time and space, when time and space doesn't matter.

I am correct, aren't I? Benjy is mixing up the current day with me...

I've read part 1, and am so confused. I felt like I was being dragged through time and space, when time and space doesn't matter.

I am correct, aren't I? Benjy is mixing up the current day with memory ?

Why did they change his name ?"

Yes, Benjy's thoughts jump around in space and time. The hint I found about who his caretakers were (message 5 above) helped me some.

They changed his name when they discovered he was developmentally disabled (NOT a term Faulkner's characters use). I assume because it wasn't appropriate for "an idiot" to be named after his uncle Maury.

[Amanda]

Susan wrote: "Yes, Benjy's thoughts jump around in space and time. The hint I found about who his caretakers were (message 5 above) helped me some.

They changed his name when they discovered he was developmentally disabled (NOT a term Faulkner's characters use). I assume because it wasn't appropriate for "an idiot" to be named after his uncle Maury. "

They appeared to be saying something about religion and the name change, from what I could work out, and that didn't make sense to me, but your explanation does.

Whilst I could work out time from who was featuring in Benjy's rambling, I couldn't tell which time was when, just that they were different.

[Bea]

OK, I finally finished this week's selection. Then I went over to Wikipedia and read the synopsis of this section. I totally missed that (view spoiler)[Caddy had gotten married and divorced and was banished from the home (hide spoiler)]. I remember that she was gone but missed all the reasons.

Other parts that I missed was the reason the land was sold (for the golf course) or the consequence of his encounter with the girl.

Maybe these parts become clearer in later sections.

[Susan]

Bea wrote: "OK, I finally finished this week's selection. Then I went over to Wikipedia and read the synopsis of this section. I totally missed that [spoilers removed]. I remember that she was gone but missed ..."

I didn't get any of those from reading Benjy's section, either, Bea. But once I'd read in Sparknotes or Wikipedia (I forget which), a number of things made a lot more sense. Like Benjy always wanting to go over into the golf course (because it used to be "his" pasture) and not being allowed to. And as for the consequence of his encounter with the girl, there was one tiny comment (view spoiler)[ about looking down and something being missing (hide spoiler)] that I would never have figured out without the synopsis.

[Bea]

Susan, I liked the idea that Benjy was going to the golf course to listen to the golfers call for their caddy because it reminded him of Caddy. I knew that was important but missed that it was a reminder for him, because Caddy was gone.

I almost feel that I would understand more if I read it over again now...almost. Too many books to read to mess with that idea.

[Susan]

Bea wrote: "Susan, I liked the idea that Benjy was going to the golf course to listen to the golfers call for their caddy because it reminded him of Caddy. I knew that was important but missed that it was a reminder for him, because Caddy was gone."

Yes, me too. I also think her being gone and his not understanding it might've contributed to the incident with the girl. I think where it happened was where he used to wait for Caddy to come home from school.

Bea wrote:"I almost feel that I would understand more if I read it over again now...almost. Too many books to read to mess with that idea. "

That's exactly how I feel. It's been tempting me to read the Sparknotes or Wikipedia summaries first, before reading the real thing. So far, I haven't done that, because I want to see what my own reaction is first; but I'm sure I'd understand more if I did.

[Bea]

Susan wrote: " It's been tempting me to read the Sparknotes or Wikipedia summaries first, before reading the real thing. So far, I haven't done that, because I want to see what my own reaction is first; but I'm sure I'd understand more if I did. "

Me, too. Tempted but resisting, so far.

[Tien]

"While many first-time readers report Benjy's section as being difficult to understand, these same readers often find Quentin's section to be near impossible. Not only do chronological events mesh together regularly, but often (especially at the end) Faulkner completely disregards any semblance of grammar, spelling, or punctuation, instead writing in a rambling series of words, phrases, and sentences that have no separation to indicate where one thought ends and another begins."

yes, yes, yes... urk, I don't like unreliable narrators! *pulling my hair out*

[Susan]

Tien said, " yes, yes, yes ... urk, I don't like unreliable narrators."

I didn't find Quentin unreliable as a narrator, just confusing sometimes as his mind wanders back from where he is in time to past events with Caddy or with his dad. I liked him a lot. And I actually really liked this section. Early on, I even thought it was easier to read than Benjy's.

The other thing Faulkner does that I'm only now getting used to is how much he simply hints at things. For example, in the first part, (view spoiler)[ Benji's castration -- it was just the brief scene with getting out of the unlocked gate, and then one time looking down and something was missing (hide spoiler)] How cryptic was that?!

I found the same with Quentin. For almost this entire section, I wondered (view spoiler)[ whether he was planning to commit suicide. That's what the andirons were for, right? But then, in the end, why did he have a bag packed with his toothbrush among other things and take it with him, and why did he go to the bank to get money? I ended the section not sure whether he was going to jump in the river or disappear somewhere and let people think he had jumped. (hide spoiler)] I still wasn't sure when I finished reading his section, and needed to trust the Wikipedia statement on it.

I also didn't quite understand about the watch and the clock. He was waiting for a particular time. Was it the time Caddy's wedding would be starting, or would be over? If not, then why was he killing time all day and counting how much longer he had to wait?

I was most touched by his relationship with Caddy. (Interesting, because that was true about Benjy's part, too.) For a long time, I thought he might have (view spoiler)[ committed incest with her, but it turns out he only told his father he had. (hide spoiler)] In any case, they loved each other very much. And I think he was devastated by her (view spoiler)[ marriage, which he saw as a betrayal (hide spoiler)], as well as by learning that (view spoiler)[ Benjy's pasture had been sold to pay for him to go to Harvard. (hide spoiler)] How different things might have been if he and Caddy and Benjy could've gone away together as he'd suggested to her!

I was also struck by the powerful conversation with his father that he remembered near the end of the section. I don't remember when we learned that the father was a minister, but he certainly talks in high-falutin' philosophical way about things that matter in a down-to-earth way to Quentin.

And, from Wikipedia: (view spoiler)[ "Pregnant and alone, Caddy then marries Herbert Head, whom Quentin finds repulsive, but Caddy is resolute: she must marry before the birth of her child. Herbert finds out that the child is not his and sends mother and daughter away in shame. " (hide spoiler)] I don't remember reading/hearing the part in the second sentence at all!

I'm waiting anxiously to hear about all these things from Caddy's POV!!!

[Bea]

I'm sorry everyone, but I am running behind on this week's reading. I must admit that, although this section is without punctuation and is free-flowing thought type writing, I am enjoying it. I was a bit taken back to find in the midst of one section that the mother's thoughts were inserted and had to re-read to be sure I had not made a mistake in subject. I will catch up after my cataract surgery on Tuesday.

[Tien]

Susan wrote: "I didn't find Quentin unreliable as a narrator, just confusing sometimes as his mind wanders back from where he is in time to past events with Caddy or with his dad. I liked him a lot. And I actually really liked this section. Early on, I even thought it was easier to read than Benjy's."

maybe not 'unreliable' as in he got events wrong but that he's just unstable and it's really getting to me the back & forth and sideways thoughts!

The other thing Faulkner does that I'm only now getting used to is how much he simply hints at things. For example, in the first part, (view spoiler) How cryptic was that?!

I thought at first all that was (view spoiler)[missing was his pants! And er... what this castration an accident? It was so 'cryptic', I wasn't sure... (hide spoiler)]

ut then, in the end, why did he have a bag packed with his toothbrush among other things and take it with him, and why did he go to the bank to get money? I ended the section not sure whether he was going to jump in the river or disappear somewhere and let people think he had jumped. (hide spoiler)] I still wasn't sure when I finished reading his section, and needed to trust the Wikipedia statement on it.

I also didn't quite understand about the watch and the clock. He was waiting for a particular time. Was it the time Caddy's wedding would be starting, or would be over? If not, then why was he killing time all day and counting how much longer he had to wait?

Do you think the packed & waited til the wedding's over in the hope that Caddy will change her mind & come away with him anyway? This way, he'd be ready to go at a moment's notice.

PS: I dislike the mother and maybe also Jason! ack! Children totally know when you love one more than the other. She's a bit like Mrs Bennett from P&P, yea?

[Tien]

Best of luck with the surgery, Bea! Lots of positive thoughts your way xx

[Amanda]

Good luck Bea!

I am behind, still in section two, but have finished some other reads and can get back on track this week.

[Bea]

Thanks, everyone. Amanda, I should finish section two today = about 40 pages to go. I find that I need quiet time to read this section, otherwise I lose the train of thought. Still liking it.

Just one thought: the selling of the pasture is explained in this section more than it was in Benjy's. Wonder why Wikipedia made that one of the parts of Benjy's section. Here it features into the fact that it was for Harvard costs for Quentin.

[Bea]

OK. Finished Quentin's section and then read the comments on it in Wikipedia. The author of the Wikipedia article says that Quentin did commit suicide by drowning. I got that he was thinking of it, but I was not left with the idea that he had done so.

In this section the past and current events seem to mirror each other (i.e., the fight over Caddy as a young boy and the fight over women as a Harvard student).

Quentin seems to have very old Southern ideas of women. However, he himself seems to be stuck emotionally in his youth.

He comes across as a tormented youth without parental support. His father, when approached, is cold and distant and does not seem to understand his son's angst. His mother clearly cares for only one child, Jason.

The broken watch brings to mind the idea that time is broken...Quentin is running out of time. Perhaps out of life.

So far the three children, Caddy, Benjy, and Quentin seem to have bonded against the rest of the family. Caddy cared for Benjy, who could not care for himself. Quentin felt he had to protect Caddy and by extension Benjy. None of the rest of the family are presented in Quentin's eyes as part of his family group.

[Susan]

I haven't read/listened at all for a couple days. In Oregon, enjoyed the absolutely gorgeous Columbia River Gorge area yesterday, after spending the weekend with 20-30 of my closest friends from nearly 50 years ago (the group of us that went to Thailand together for the Peace Corps). So I'm all fine with slowing down if we need to. I've been with other people all day, getting back to our hotel room too tired to start the section after Quentin's.

Yes, Tien, your explanation makes sense -- I'm all ready if Caddy really does come run away with me, but suicide once the chance for that is over.

I like Bea's comments in her last post -- you had a couple insights I hadn't thought of. Bea, it sounds like you've read far enough that you can go back and read the spoilers in my message from 3 days ago. I wasn't sure everyone had finished Quentin's section yet.

[Susan]

responding to Tien's spoiler in messge 28:
(view spoiler)[ No, I don't believe it was an accident. Remember when he was watching the girls, where he used to wait for Caddy to come home after school? And the gate should've been locked but accidentally was left open? Two school girls were walking by, and they'd been noticing him and talking to each other about him. One was scared of him. Once he got out, he must've molested one or both in some way, or at least people were afraid that he could. I believe he was castrated to prevent that from happening (or happening again). At that time, many "simple-minded" women had their ovaries removed, obviously without any possiblity of informed consent, to prevent them from having children. I think this was sort of the same. (hide spoiler)]

[Bea]

Susan wrote: "responding to Tien's spoiler in messge 28:
(view spoiler)[No, I don't believe it was an accident. Remember when he was watching the girls, where he used to wait for Caddy to come home after school? And the gate should've been locked but accidentally was left open? Two school girls were walking by, and they'd been noticing him and talking to each other about him. One was scared of him. Once he got out, he must've molested one or both in some way, or at least people were afraid that he could. I believe he was castrated to prevent that from happening (or happening again). At that time, many "simple-minded" women had their ovaries removed, obviously without any possiblity of informed consent, to prevent them from having children. I think this was sort of the same. (hide spoiler)]]"

I agree with Susan.

[Tien]

I was in 2 minds about it... but yes, that was my first thought about it too. Poor kid but really there wasn't much care in those days for them, was there...

I've finished this week's section:

(view spoiler)[I feel sorry for Jason... not a sympathysing kind of sorry but just... how angry & burdened he was (he'll never be happy this way). Not just burdened with the current situation but also all the way back from his childhood. Being singled out as the favourite of his mother has not been kind to him.

Am also absolutely frustrated at the mother! She's really got no one else to blame but herself, I say! Pull your head out of the sand and face up, urgh!

After the last 2 sections where thoughts were in absolute shambles, I appreciate Jason's straightforward thoughts (hide spoiler)]

[Bea]

I've started the next section - enough to know that this is Jason's section and he is not in a satisfactory relationship with his mother.

Reading interrupted due to cataract surgery yesterday. Getting used to my new lens, which does not require glasses for distant vision. Near vision was a bit of challenge yesterday but seems improving today.

[Tien]

yay! glasses are annoying especially when it's raining :p
good to hear, you're doing well :)

[Amanda]

Finished part 2, and I didn't get the bit about Benjy, perhaps because of the cryptic nature and not having read any notes ?

Found this section very frustrating to read - Benjy's was a breeze in comparison! I have never done well with stream of consciousness styles, I just can't concentrate on it.

I had thought that Quentin's claims re Caddie were just so that they would cut them all off and let them go? Give them the push to run away together, rather than having to convince them of it himself ?

He doesn't seem to be a strong person, in any meaning of the word, so to be forced to leave through disgrace would seem to be the only way to try to salvage the situation for him.

[Bea]

Amanda wrote: "I had thought that Quentin's claims re Caddie were just so that they would cut them all off and let them go? Give them the push to run away together, rather than having to convince them of it himself ?

He doesn't seem to be a strong person, in any meaning of the word, so to be forced to leave through disgrace would seem to be the only way to try to salvage the situation for him.
"

Do you mean Jason rather than Quentin? I thought Quentin in this section was the granddaughter and that Jason is the narrator in this section. Nevermind, I just saw that you are commenting on section 2 not section 3. Yes, I thought he might be trying that, but because Caddie had refused to leave with him and Benjy.

[Susan]

I really do not like Jason! So far, I've found the other narrators sympathetic, even when I've been confused about what they are saying. But he is just so self-centered and angry at everyone.

Re Bea's comment that he is not in a satisfactory relationship with his mother: true, and yet he is his mother's favorite, the only one who's "not a Compson," (interesting, though, that he was named after his father, even though he's not the oldest). And he's certainly willing to take advantage of her favoritism. Yet so far (I only began the night before last, and keep falling asleep while listening, then having to go back to find my place), his view of life is that he's been cheated out of advantages the others had, and has been saddled with responsibilities he doesn't want.

At least this section is easier to follow than the first two.

[Bea]

He sure does whine a lot, huh, Susan? I find this the most read-able of the three sections (meaning that I am following it better despite the stream of consciousness writing), but, as with Susan, the narrator is much more a problem for me. Jason justs does not get my sympathy at all.

[Amanda]

Realised through the night re castration (now have an ear infection, so was very out of sorts last night) that my reading of the scene was that Benjy was perhaps molesting / undressing a girl and in lifting her dress found that something was missing in comparison to himself.

Obviously well off track!

Finding section 3 very much as Susan and Bea have. Just wanting it over so that I don't have to read his nastiness any more!

[Susan]

Amanda wrote: "Just wanting it over so that I don't have to read his nastiness any more! "


Ditto.

[Bea]

Well, like everyone else, I got fed up with Jason's prejudice and woe-is-me attitude. What a remarkedly unpleasant character he became. So glad to be done with his section.

I doubt that I would have stuck with this book if not for the buddy read.

[Amanda]

Bea wrote: "Well, like everyone else, I got fed up with Jason's prejudice and woe-is-me attitude. What a remarkedly unpleasant character he became. So glad to be done with his section.

I doubt that I would ha..."

I don't think I would have either, and I have been put off Faulkner. I had considered listening to an audiobook for a different text, but the samples I listened to were so slowly read that the couple of minutes I listened to made me frustrated.

[Bea]

Yeah, Amanda, I doubt that I will be in a hurry to read more Faulkner.

[Amanda]

Bea wrote: "Yeah, Amanda, I doubt that I will be in a hurry to read more Faulkner."

It's a pain. Next month I start a challenge reading through the States of the US, and Faulkner would have slotted in nicely - but, nah!

Somehow scraped up 20 books from our shelves at home, so all good in the ned.

How's the eye/eyes going ?

[Bea]

The operative one is fine. I get the other one done 8/25. In the meantime, since the MD doesn't want me to wear my corrective glasses, I am not reading as much as usual since the R eye is not corrected for near vision (20/20 for distance). Once both eyes are done, I may need reading glasses but OTC ones will probably be all that will be necessary.

[Bea]

I've got to admit that I do not see why Faulkner is thought to be such a good classic writer. Do any of you know if the writing style for this book carries over to other books he has written? Because, if it does, I just do not see why he is so acclaimed.