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Yes Skye you're right...Merle's Door is a great book, by someone who tried to give "his" dog a different kind of life. Also, of course, Merle's life reverted to how rural dogs lived in the pre-motor car age.Then they tended to wander and have a pretty free life. It worked in Merle's case, because Ted Kerasote had a particular life & environment ie a quiet rural area with no through traffic. Hard to find these days.
In Thailand, the majority of dogs are left to wander, but this is through laziness & neglect by humans, and the dogs are far from safe. As I said earlier in this thread, here in Thailand I can't let my dogs wander away from the house unsupervised, as the traffic and poor driving is just too dangerous; as well as the threat of dog thieves, supplying the dog meat and skin trade.But I do give them maximum freedom every day, with off leash walks of 2 hours or so, in the wild country, away from roads and predatory people. They also have decent sized customized garden, with a large sandy base play area, where they can dog and run, and a concrete cooling area, with dens and platforms and plenty of shade from the sun and protection from the rain.I have seats and benches out there too, so we can sit and hang out with the dogs.(The last point is very important, even dogs in a pack need interaction with humans, they have been bred and conditioned for that over thousands of years).
Why any trainers should object to Ted Kerasote's account of Merle, is a mystery to me. Merle did have some training, but of an unconventional type. He was an intelligent, friendly and contented dog, biddable in his own way.Given that according to figures from Jon Katz, only 5-7% of American owners ever train their dogs; I would think they should find better things to criticize. I also wonder what the "average dogs" environment involves. Dogs are kept in a huge range of environments and lifestyles, some good, some clearly bad for the dogs. Dogs being dogs always try to adapt and fit in. The way I see many dogs treated in Thailand and China breaks my heart. I don't just means dogs exploited for meat or skins, I mean supposed pet dogs. In Thailand I would say that only 0.0005% of Thais ever train their dogs, or give much though to their welfare. Often there is little or no inter-action between dog & owner, (in a way this is the most cruel thing of all). Many owned dogs are confined in yards, small gardens or cages, for life. The stray dogs or course, have to take their chances dealing with dangerous & stupid driving habits, and careless, or even vicious people.
I shall look out for the Pukka books, though the follow up book seems to be a collection of annotated photos. "Pukka'a Promise" is the medical book on how ensure long lived dogs. I certainly have an interest in that for my pack of 8, as well my friendly strays. So far it doesn't seem to be out as an E book, so it may have to wait till I can order a PBK copy in UK.
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This makes me think we should have a Thread or even a Competition for unusual pet names. Should be funny. Most of my dogs are named in Thai, which can be funny when the meaning is explained.
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This makes me think we should have a Thread or even a Competition for unusual pet names. Should be funny. Most of my dogs are named in Thai, which can be funny when the meaning is explained..."
Yes, Stewart..great idea! If you could be in charge of that that would be great. If not, I will do it when I can once I get my Internet and phone service back.
They cut my phone lines yesterday while repairing a water leak. Now we have to wait till someone comes to fix it from the phone co. However, I am typing this from the library. But, it's hard sometimes to constantly run to the library to use the computer.
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Hope you get internet back. Ours goes if we have bad storm & heavy rain. Hopefully rainy season should end soon, though it has rained all afternoon & evening here.
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Stewart, after checking you r website and reading your posts, I find that you and I have several things in common in addition to love of all kinds of animals.I have practiced Taichi (Taiji) for several years with a Chinese group at Penn State University. We do primarily Yang style and well as some Chen. We also practice sword and fan forms as part of our routine. I find that in addition to what your website states, it also is good for balance, flexibility, concentration and activating one's internal energy or Qi.
My wife and I like to hike and did the Coast to Coast walk from Armside, U.K through the Yorkshire Dales where you live and ended in Saltburn By The Sea. The dales are magnificent as well as the towns and castles along the way.
I have also read several books on Buddhist philosophy and teachings and try to incorporate them into my life. I particularly like those of Thich Nhat Hahn. As you probably know he is a Vietnamese monk that was expelled from Vietnam after the Vietnam war for his teachings of peace and mindfulness. He went to France and started a Buddhist retreat center- Plum Village. I was fortunate to attend a retreat several years ago in Key West, Florida on meditation, peace and mindfulness.
I am also like you a vegetarian. I don't eat my patients so that makes me a vegetarian veterinarian.
I will be traveling quite a bit until March and will order your book Of Mice and Zen when I get home. It sounds like something that I would be very interested in reading.
I do not have an ebook version of Warm Hearts for Cold Noses. My email address is tinanedd@hotmail.com, if you send me your email I will send you some stories that I have written some of which are not in the book. And any All About Animals member who might like to read them just contact me. Also if some member would like to purchase the book I will send them a copy at my cost which would be $10.00 and includes the postage and sales tax.
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A woman who hasn’t been able to see since she was 11 years old had her sight restored after an accident in which she hit her head on a coffee table.
Lisa Reid, from Auckland in New Zealand, hadn’t been able to see since she was a child because of a tumour pressing down on her optic nerve.
But at 24 years old, Ms Reid knelt down to kiss her guide dog Ami goodnight – and hit her head.
She went to bed as normal, but the next morning woke up and could see again.
"Nobody knows what happened or can explain it," Ms Reid, who is now 38, told Daily Mail Australia.
"I can't really find words to describe how it felt - amazing, fantastic. You can imagine not being able to see and then you can, you can't really describe that. To see the world again visually is a gift."
She explains one shock she got when she got her sight back was seeing her brother for the first time after 13 years.
“He was a man... with a goatee and everything. My brother's a man,” Ms Reid said. “When I saw my mum, I was like: ‘You look the same but older.’ I turned into a woman and my brother turned into a man.”
Next month it will be 14 years since Ms Reid had her sight restored. The incident happened in the year 2000, but Ms Reid, who is now a mother, is telling her story now to raise awareness for Blind Week in New Zealand.
She said she would be “lost without” the country’s Blind Foundation charity, which hosts the awareness week.
“I’m grateful for what they’ve given me,” she said.
See Picture of Lisa & Amy in the Photo section.
It looks as if Amy is having a happy retirement with Lisa.
She deserves it after her unwitting good deed.
This story proves the importance of kissing your dog(s) goodnight, even if there are 9 of them.
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He is now so fit and handsome, he has his own girlfriend. She is a farm dog (Thai Baan Keoaw) who he met up with when we were out in the countryside. She wouldn't let the rest of the pack get close, but got on well with him straight away. The two follow up shots show just how he has come on. His name means "Origins Unknown". If I ask him if he wants to be made handsome, and show him the dog brushes, he will jump onto the bench and stand to be brushed. Seeing a rescued feral dog, standing like a show dog for his brushing, is hilarious. The rest of the pack will stand around waiting for their turn. I enjoy grooming my dogs; just as well as there are 8 of them; and they love it. It is like a massage to them, and being Thai, they love getting massaged. Soda, our rescued Bangkok Street Dog, gives me massages in return, by gentling nibbling me with his teeth. He is the light brown, short haired dog, resting alongside Luem Ma in one of the photos.
There are a number of dogs in the area who look like Luem Ma, right down to the light brown markings above the eyes. To me, he now looks like a small scale Doberman. There are certainly a number of Doberman Crosses around here. The other day I was out in a plantation with the the pack, when some land workers turned up, trailed by their own 3 dogs. I became totally confused, as one of these was identical to Luem Ma, and I was wondering: why he was being so aggressive, and snarling, very unlike him, and then wondered how he had managed to change his collar.Then I realized, it wasn’t Luem Ma, but his double; who was scared of my eight dogs. Luem Ma was actually hiding from the workers, deep in some undergrowth. I sent my lot back to the car, and gave the farm dogs some jerky snacks. They are perfectly nice dogs, though wary of strangers; and my pack of eight, led by a powerful GSD, is probably scary. I was too busy supervising dogs to get the camera out and take their photo, but I am sure to see them again. I shall make sure I have plenty of snacks.
Quite the crew of canines. And two puppies surviving Parvo virus is quite a testament to your vet care, the pups and your home nursing. Ed
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I love dogs like this.
Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11...
Stray Dog Found In The Jungle Treks Miles With Adventure Team To His Forever Home
The Huffington Post | By Cavan Sieczkowski
Sometimes new friends are met in the unlikeliest of places, even in the middle of the jungle.
Earlier this month, a team of extreme athletes completing a grueling race through the Ecuadorian Amazon came across a dirty, stray dog that began following them through the rain forest. The teammates, who named the pup Arthur, eventually gave the pup a new home and a chance at a better life.
“It all started with me giving Arthur a meatball when we we’re eating right before the long trekking," Mikael Lindnord, captain of Sweden's Peak Performance adventure racing team, said in an interview for the Team Peak Performance website. "When we set off we did it with some other teams, and I didn’t understand that Arthur was following us until we were alone and he was still there. At one stage we had to take a break and the dog was totally wrecked. We opened two cans of food and let him eat, because he could find no food at all in the djungle [sic]."
Lindnord and three other Peak Performance athletes headed to Ecuador in November to compete in the 430-mile Adventure Racing World Championship. Arthur began following the group before the final stages of the challenge, and he managed to keep up with them through the muddy jungle terrain, according to a race recap on Team Peak Performance's site. But when the group was about to cross a river on kayaks, they were advised to leave the dog for safety reasons. Arthur, however, wouldn't stay behind.
"Mike, Simon, Staffan and Karen put their kayaks down in the water and set off, but Arthur refused to be left and started swimming," the group posted on Facebook. "This was too heartbreaking for the team, and Mikael helped Arthur up in the kayak. This led to standing ovations from everyone on the shore, seeing the five (!) team mates set off."
Arthur and the team made it across the finish line together, according to the group's website. After the race, the team set up a PayPal account to get care for the dog -- who needed treatment for a bloody wound on his back as old as six months -- and to get him flown to Sweden. On Thursday, Arthur landed at Stockholm's Arlanda Airport.
Arthur, who is now considered a member of the Adventure Racing Team, will live at home with Lindnord and his family, according to the Daily Mail.
What a great story! Good luck to Arthur in his new home. He definitely earned the good life!
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be-friended a local farm dog. It was like the kindly old ladies who would take care of toddlers lost in the Dept. Store.The little farm bitch barked at me of course, so I threw her a snack and thanked her for taking care of my puppy. As usual with Thai farm dogs, as soon as I spoke friendly to her, her ears went down and she looked apologetic for barking. My Dandie Dinmont was definitely pleased to see me.Where ever they are, if my dogs go missing, they just wait at the last place they saw me. This was a totally new location, but the terrier kept her head and was waiting patiently with her new friend.
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I've trained my a little bit, but should be doing more I guess.
My dogs know some words and my puggle rings the bell when he has to go outside. My other dog will ring his tags to go out.
Puggle, Barb? I'm guessing pug/poodle mix? How cute!
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Puggle = Pug + Beagle.
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Pug and Beagle?! I never would have thought of that....great pictures!
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I've trained my a little bit, but should be doing more I guess.
My dogs know some words and my puggle rings the bell when he has to go outsid..."
I like this kind of "training", because it serves a purpose or meets a need.With mine and I guess yours with the bell ringing, they largely learn it by trial and error and repetition, but not too much of the latter in my dogs case. Mine are out with me every day on long walks through mixed terrain. They rarely go missing or lose touch; but if they don't come to the whistle or car horn, then they know that they should return to the car, or if the car is gone, they should wait where the car was parked. They know that the car is the fount of all good things. It takes them out on our adventures & trips, it houses tasty snacks and water. And is a safe place to rest in shade. If there is no clean water flowing near where I park, I always leave a big bowl of water by the car, so if any dog returns, then it can have a drink. My car is more of a mobile kennel than anything.It smells pretty savory most of the time. It is only a little Toyota Yaris, but holds 8-9 dogs easily, and is high clearance & deals with rough tracks. I drive it like an off road vehicle.
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Merle's Door was our book group pick back in April of 2013.
If you want to discuss it you can always write on the thread I have for past books. Just go to the bookshelf in the group and then scroll down to Merle's Door, and click on it.
I keep all of our past threads up for the books the group has read. Sometimes we didn't discuss much, but if you comment it should let everyone know there is a new message on there. I think it brings the thread back up toward the top.
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Stewart, I'd be interested in knowing how you train your dogs to wait by the car.
Stewart says.....
Here is my informal, relaxed training method.
After a walk. I always let the dogs rest and relax by the car, usually off lead. So it becomes established as a good place to relax.They get a treat for waiting around the car. And another treat for jumping in on command. Then they have a favourite command, "kuen rot" ( get in the car). When on a walk, as we head back I tell them "klab rot", go back to the car, which is re-enforced as we get nearer. They can be told to return to car even if we are miles from it , and they know it is the cue to head back. That way they know if they get "lost" ie detached from me, the sensible thing to do is to return to the car.It is very difficult for them to get detached, as I carry high pitch dog whistles, why they are trained to respond to. It is easy for a dog to find the rest of the pack and me by scent, when there are so many. So usually if they are not recalling, it is because they have found rats/squirrels or an interesting dog.However long a re-call takes, they are always praised and rewarded. I never scold or punish delays. On walks, every recall during the walk is praised or rewarded. Same with every "check in". If they look to check where I am, I look back at them and praise them. Every time they make a contact with me, it is acknowledged. I do this to re-enforce the bonding, just like wolves & pack dogs do. If you watch a pack, whenever a pack member has wandered away from the pack, however briefly, its return is always acknowledged and it is greeted. My pack do this constantly. Our walks are punctuated by rest breaks in shade and near water, or with water I carry for them with 2 collapsible hiking bowls. They get a snack then too, and even more important, affection.The get idea that being around "Daddy" is fun, and doesnt really restrict their freedom. The rest breaks are important, as it is usually hot here. Even with all the snacks & treats they get, and good food in the evening, they never get fat, because they are out walking 3 hours every day, plus side trips, plus endless play in the garden & house. They are all fit, muscled dogs.All swim as well as run endlessly.
If a dog doesnt get in the car when commanded at the end of the walk, I sound the horn & start the engine. If they still don't come, I start to drive off without them. Note, I am always parked off road, down quiet tracks for this. Only 2 of the former strays like to play games and wait until i am pulling away before following.They are never told off around the car, and i don't make a fuss if they choose to delay getting in. The idea is to make the car a pleasant place to be. Seems to work.
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Have any tips for dogs pulling on leash? Actually, I don't use a leash on their collar, I use a harness. I like a harness better because I don't like them pulling on it around the neck area.
I can't leave my dogs off a leash because I live in a development and am worried if they run off they'd get hit by a car.
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Have any tips for dogs pulling on leash? Actually, I don't use a leash on their collar, I use a harness. I li..."
Yes,
Here are the links to the best methods & info. I agree that harnesses are better than neck or head collars. The latter are getting popular, but I don't like them, because they can strain the dogs neck by pulling its head. I bought a Halti Head collar to use on Pepsi, but could never bring my self to use it. I converted it into a harness for a smaller dog.
Patience is the answer, and don't rely on quick fixes.Most dogs are good on the lead when tired.Trouble is, you will be tired before the dog is.
TRAIN YOUR DOG NOT TO PULL ON THE LEAD.
This link below is by far the best method and video by Nigel Reed, a trainer in London, illustrating how to stop pulling on the leash...
http://www.dogtraininginlondon.co.uk/
Nigel Reed is humane, patient, and explains every step. He goes right back to the problem which is the dog’s attitude in the home. Note how the initial work is done in the house, before even going out with the dog. The garden can also be used if the house is too small.
It is also on Youtube at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8cPkT...
Uploaded on Nov 30, 2010
http://www.dogtraininginlondon.co.uk/
THIS IS THE TEXT FROM YOUTUBE ABOUT THE SAME VIDEO
A training video on how to teach your dog to walk to heel. A gentle method which has no need for gadgets, tools or demands. Dog Training in London can correct any unwanted behaviour in dogs such as aggression, nervousness, pulling on the lead, ignoring requests, jumping up at visitors, barking, fussy eaters, hyperactivity etc look at the website to contact me and I will help you towards taking the steps to a perfect relationship with your dog by Nigel Reed of Dog Training in London. A step by step guide on how to train your dog not to pull on the leash.
STEWART's ADDITIONAL COMMENT
Nigel Reed's method above is the best.
Here are two other which may be of interest ...One uses the head collar (which actually go around the dog's mouth).These should only be used as a remedial method in serious cases and as a training aid, and never for general walking or day to day use.
I am not keen on head collars, because a sudden pull by dog or owner could really hurt the dog's neck. They give a lot of owner control, but should be used with care or not at all.They work because if it pulls, the dog will be hurt. I would never use them with my dogs, I don't like the "muzzle effect". I am sure that my dogs would rip off the head collar in seconds. A second lead attached to a collar or harness should always be used, so that the head collar is not the sole point of contact.
A better device is the shoulder harness, with a point of contact at the top of dog’s shoulder or high up the back. Some dogs react well to these, as they are no longer getting pressure or resistance from a neck collar. I use the shoulder harness on my dogs when they need to walk under close control in busy areas. They are comfortable for the dogs and they don't feel restricted, and if one of them does lunge, to avoid a dog attacking them unexpectedly, or even to avoid motorcycle riding a pavement/sidewalk) (this being Thailand), then they are not going to get hurt.
When they are on walks where they are free to run, they wear ordinary flat collars, or nothing, and I carry leads just in case. I usually walk 8 dogs at a time. The other morning, the young rescue pup was hunting for squirrels in cover, when a snake he had surprised lunged at him. Because he was off the lead, he was able to avoid it by jumping backwards. It wasn't poisonous, but they still have a bite. If he had been restricted on a lead wouldn't have had the same mobility. In Thailand you can always expect the un-expected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqg...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGiusT...
Pepsi is still not great on the lead unless he is alone with me. He is better with my wife. The others are all fine. The best dog for walking to heel, was a feral dog, who had never been on a lead.He would walk to my heel anywhere, nose glued to my left knee. He was a lovely dog. Sadly, he was killed on the road recently when I wasn't around. I really miss him.
Barb, you mentioned you wanted to train your dog to behave. What behavior do you mean?Loose-leash walking (LLW) is something I teach in all my courses. I accustom puppies to a head collar (around the muzzle) because I also teach dog first aid and injured dogs should be muzzled before attempting first aid. I also teach how to muzzle with a leash or a man's tie.
Head collars were popularized by Dr. RKAnderson of Minnesota and he called them Gentle Leaders. I haven't used them much in recent years because it takes dogs a while to get used to them and people use them too harshly. I do try it on a dog but usually go to a harness and it depends on the type of harness. A back-attach harness encourages pulling (think, sled dogs) while a front-attach harness is like what the Gentle Leader is - or the reins on a horse. Front-attach harnesses can be miracles, so my clients tell me. The dog seems to correct himself. Of course, the leash should not be across the dog's back but on the same side of the dog that you are - a criss-cross dog makes this difficult.
Whatever you want a dog to do, the chances of it happening more often are directly related to the frequency of rewarding the behavior. So, I always carry a treat pouch. When the dog is on my left and even with my leg, he gets a treat. Of course, the reward is defined by the dog - some like cheese, some like kibble, etc.
I also don't use corrections or the word, command. I give the dog a cue, usually a hand signal (then a verbal cue), and if he chooses to do it, he gets a treat. If not, the behavior is ignored and becomes extinct. This is called choice-training or positive reinforcement.
There are many Yahoo and FB lists about this and many books. If you give me some titles, I can tell you if the book uses this method.
and, the dog is not treated for behavior for the rest of his life. Once he knows what is asked, in 2-3 iterations, then we randomly treat for the behavior, like a slot machine. This has been supported by research to make the behavior stronger than treating each time.
However, I always reward a recall, as Stewart said. That is the one behavior that could save a dog's life. Think of putting money in the bank - the more deposits (the more rewarded 'comes,' the higher the chance of it occurring in an emergency.
Hope this helps. I usually don't respond to basic questions like this because I have done it for too many years but I would also recommend a positive-reinforcement training class, no matter how old your dog it. If you send me your location, I can recommend someone or if you send me some names and webpages, I can evaluate them for you.
Good luck!
Also there are a few ways to train a dog. Capturing, shaping, luring, modeling, . . . .capturing is perhaps the strongest. You wait for the behavior and then reward it. This works if the behavior is in the natural repertoire of the dog (not so good for some tricks). Shaping is kind of rewarding approximations of the behavior. If I can't get a dog to lie down, I start rewarding his moving his head down a couple of inches. Then I wait for more inches before rewarding. Then I wait for even more of a dip of the head. Eventually he leans down and then lies down.Luring is using a treat like a magnet. I hold the treat to the nose and where the treat goes, so goes the nose. I move the treat down slowly and the dog lies down.
Modeling is pushing the dog's rear end down. I don't do this.
Once a dog catches on to the method of positive reinforcement, he will start offering behaviors. In the old days of traditional force-based training, the dog would not offer behaviors for fear of being wrong.
I am also a clicker trainer. I use a clicker to mark the behavior I want, then reward. The clicker always sounds the same, it is a unique sound, it is precise (immediately following the behavior), etc.
Traditional trainers focus on obedience, commands and what they want the dog NOT to do rather than rewarding him for doing a specific thing.
It's hard to explain to so many people of different backgrounds and not in person so I have taken some shortcuts in my explanation.
May I ask a question, Skye? You talk about rewarding with treats. Doesn't this put the dog's attention solely on the treat and not really on the trainer? I used to watch the Westminster Dog Show and it seemed like all the dogs were just thinking about their treats. If a dog is always expecting food, is he really learning the lesson or simply learning how to get more food? I hope this does not sound rude, isn't meant to be....but I've been curious about this question for years and you sound like someone who can explain it to me. Thanks!
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It has divided dog trainers opinions for years. I am a pragmatist, whatever works is fine, if it doesn't hurt the dog or damage the bond between dog & owner. I was trained initially by "old school" obedience trainers who would never reward with treats. But there again I was training shelties (Shetland Sheepdogs), my own particular Sheltie never put a foot wrong or misbehaved anyway. I would give her treats, but not as a training aid. The 15 years later I rescued a 2 year old wild Irish Setter. He was starved, and hunted to survive. So naturally I used to feed him treats as rewards in training. I had to form a bond fast and stop his wild ways. It was the easiest way. His wild ways included"hunting" sheep and deer to eat, as well as rabbits. I never weaned him off hunting rabbits, but the sheep & deer hunting had to be stopped. ALSO he was starving and emaciated so food rewards were the way to go.He eventually settled down and won agility competitions and a dog show, and more important, he saved my daughter from danger.I think I ended up giving him treats not for particular training behaviour, but because he was such a good dog.He came to work with me everyday, and what he scrounged from my students, was his affair.
My answer on food reward is that it depends on the individual dog and its circumstances (ie your circumstances). Most working dogs are not trained with treats, ie sheepdogs , gun dogs, detection dogs, search and rescue dogs, ( the latter however are rewarded with play with a favorite toy, with the trainer. Giving treats for this kind of training would distract the dog, and result in a very fat dog.
Show dogs tend to get rewards, because as Skye is suggesting, they have to be trained to some quite unnatural behaviour...eg jumping on tables to be groomed or handled by judges, prancing around a ring,being bathed & manicured, being friendly to unfamiliar handlers or judges. If i have to give shots or trim nails, or course my dogs get treats, lots of them, because you are asking the dog to put up with stuff that is not natural to it.
Now that I have 8 dogs, all of them "rescued" in the sense of being taken from difficult situations of not being cared for properly; or just taken in from the streets or countryside; food rewards are just the easiest way to get them to attend & behave. Such dogs tend to be very food oriented, because were often starving. I can't reward one dog and not the others; so mini treats are the way to go.I often give a dog a command just to be able to give it a treat, so it isnt left out.
Also they live with my family; and while i can get them to do stuff without treats, they will often ignore my wife or daughter or mother in law, if no treat is offered. Again, Skye's point about natural behaviour is interesting. When i send my GSD to find a lost member of the pack and bring it back, I wouldn't give a treat when he brings the dog back. He gets lots of praise, as does the errant dog, but he is basically performing the natural behaviour of a pack leader.Similarly it his his job to sort out "fights" or bullying in the pack. I don't need to reward that behaviour with treats, i just praise him for sorting it.But if he is not around and there is bullying or silly fights, i may distract the offenders with treats and tell them to behave. If I want Pepsi the GSD to make friends with a child or a stranger out in the fields or in the market, I'll give that person treats to give him, after I have told him to lie down (less threatening), but I don't need treats to get him to lie down to make friends with new puppies, he knows how to do this, it is his natural behaviour as a protective GSD and pack leader. Actually he doesnt need any commands to do this, he taught me how to befriend new puppies.The other thing is, my dogs are thai dogs, and Thais like to eat 9 times day.
Do my dogs respect me more or less because I give treats? I have no idea. I know they respect me and want to be around me, whether that is the treats or not , who knows. I love my wife and get her treats sometimes (not the same as dog treats), does she love me more or less for that?
I take my dogs for free (off lead) running exercise, swimming and hunting in wild country everyday for 2-4 hours, with breaks in shade for rest and pats. They get side trips & visits to family or markets. I love them all and respect their space. They get bones with meat on and safe private places to eat them in the garden (feeding cages), as well as treats and their daily meal. They are all trim and muscled with great energy and stamina. They will recall to the whistle for up to a 1 or 2 miles a way and be back to me in minutes. They will swim lakes to get back to me or will return to car if lost, and wait for me there, and they will befriend anyone i tell them to. I don't think they do these things for treats, they do them because they like me/ and have strong bond with me.If treats are being used to re-enforce the bond, and also to reward unnatural behaviour for the dog, then I don't see a problem.
We usually use what we call treats - tiny pieces of food. Soft is best so the dog doesn't waste time chewing. Like, a taste. For a lab, about the size of your little finger nail or a pea. We use treats because they are light, easy, quick, portable, storable, fast and likable. Some dogs we start with kibble (labs), others we go to cheese or chicken. As I mentioned, we wean off the treats in 2-3 iterations then treat irregularly. Keep asking if this doesn't satisfy you - great question. And I remind clients that the treat is defined by the dog. Not all dogs will work/learn for kibble - for some, we have to up the andy. One pup in class was rewarded with a tug toy - not as portable but it worked for them! We are merely setting habits. But good habits.
Thanks, Stewart and Skye for your explanations! I've trained lots of baby horses (and cats) in my day but only two of the dogs I've known over the years were mine to train, and just one of those came to me as a puppy. I did not use treats or any reward with either one of those dogs, just love. I think that earning a smile or pat or sincere words of praise should be enough of an incentive for any animal. Treats and toys still feel like bribery, and for me would distract from the partnering process. Of course neither of my two dogs were in as challenging a set of surroundings as yours are, Stewart....and I was certainly never a professional trainer like you must be, Skye. What you both say about dogs applies to people too, doesn't it....everything depends on each individual. Thanks much for your replies!
A bribe is when the dog sees the reward and won't do the behavior asked until he sees it. A reward is when he does the behavior and then sees and gets the reward. Big difference! Also, we must wean the dog from dependence on the reward by phasing it out (randomizing rewards) after 2-3 iterations of the behavior. This is something many trainers don't understand - as a result, pet dogs become dependent upon treats. And, don't forget that the definition of reward is in the eyes of the dog. For some that is a tug not a treat (or when the dog is satiated). I use life rewards as well. The dog sits at the corner - the reward is crossing the street and continuing on with the walk. I put my hand on the doorknob - when the dog sits, the door opens! Wow! Smart dog - he just made the door open!
That explanation makes a lot of sense, Skye. I like the idea of life rewards,too. Thanks!
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My pack play chase with each other all the time. They love it. With my Irish Setter, he would catch me easily and then the reward would be a play fight/tussle. He loved it, and he was always eager to recall and seek me out.With my pack, recalls are easy; I usually only need to get one dog to respond and come to me, and the rest will follow.The are a pack so like to do stuff together, and don't want to miss out on anything interesting
If you talking on your mobile or playing with a smart phone and ignoring the dog, then the dog is likely to ignore you; so be interesting to your dog.
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Some dogs like the reward of being chased as well as chasing. My lot switch roles all the time. My GSD is faster than the rest, but he paces his runs so the smaller dogs can catch him. Then they they do a 180, and reverse roles. My Irish Setter was even faster, and i needed a good head start to get a decent run and chase. I used to take him running a lot.
A friend who was a serious runner came along, and he asked why does the dog keep turning round to look at us as he runs. So I explained that the setter couldn't understand how we can run so slow.Not true at all, but I loved winding the guy up. Paddy was just checking his Dad, and the pace and making sure we went the right way.
Some trainers would frown on getting your dog to chase and trip you and with tussling. They argue that it encourages aggression. I say it depends on the dog and your relationship with it. I you have a good bond, and know the dog, and the dog enjoys it, no problem. As it happens I don't get chased much by my GSD and we don't play fight. But this is simply because he has a pack of 7 dogs for that, and I am too old and slow to make decent run and fight of it. Most dogs know the difference between play hunting and real hunting, and they know the difference between play fighting and real fighting.I trust my GSD anywhere with my safety and that of my family, he is the gentlest of dogs with his own. I have also seen him in 2 real dog fights, when he is not so gentle, the recent one was when a big strange dog attacked the smallest dog in Pepsi's pack, the first was he pinned a Rottweiler that had been threatening him for months. I have also seen him growling & bristling to threaten a man who was shouting at my daughter & niece. In all 3 cases, bullying dogs and man fled. The GSD knows the difference between playing, and protecting his own.
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• I visited him every day at the vet and gave him chicken and fresh cooked pork bones.. I am calling him Happy ( Happy New Year). If I found out who did this, they would not see in another New Year. If on the outside chance he was scaled by accident, then whoever did it, just dumped him to die or take his chances. This is the ways some Thais behave. I get very angry at the way many scum in Thailand treat dogs.
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• The vet also diagnosed parvo virus, so he was back on the IV drip. I visited him every day and when he was well enough, took him little walks on the land behind the surgery. He was always happy to see me and get out.
• After three weeks at the vets I took him home.
• He has been with us for 6 days.
Pepsi and the other dogs took to him immediately and he is settling in well. He insists on going walks with us, so we do easy ones with lots of stops to rest, while the others hunt, and I carry him some of the way if he starts tiring The skin on his back is slowly growing over the scar tissue, but I don’t think he will have fur there ever. He is smart and inquisitive and already does recalls and goes to his box or climbs into the car on command. Happy adores Pepsi. I introduced him to Pepsi first and just told him to care of the puppy. Actually, there was no need to say it, he takes care of all puppies. As the leader of my pack, I know that Pepsi accepting him, means the others will do the same. In one photo he is doing a typical "puppy" submissive gesture to Pepsi., it originates as a feeding gesture, licking the side of the mothers mouth to get her to regurgitate food.Adult dogs do it too when greeting their leader. When your dog licks your face, it is using the same gesture and is recognising you as its boss/carer. Don’t feel obliged to regurgitate food for the dog when it does this; it is generalized as a submissive, greeting gesture. Just about all adult wolves will regurgitate food if they are licked at the right spot by a known puppy, but some domesticated dogs have lost the response/reflex. But most still do the licking, as their owners can confirm.
Like most of these strays and abandoned dogs, Happy just wants to be part of a family or pack, and be appreciated individually.He is clearly strong willed and did well to fight for his life. Some dogs would have given up. He looks a lot like Som Ying our other black & white dog, who was rescued from the market. When he is not following me or Pepsi around, he follows her. She is fascinated by him. I love just watching them interact. I have made him a den from cardboard boxes, with a staggered entrance, so only he can get in. He has his own blanket and is very comfortable in there. It is important for a small weak dog to have somewhere safe to hide, when the big dogs get too lively. He can look out at them from his den, but they cannot get to him. They actually leave him alone when he goes in there. In the final photo:
Pepsi, Happy, Kaew Niaow Daeing, Soda, Yu Yi and a bit of Duk Dik, having a rest by the car at the end of a walk. The reason I visited him every day at the vet and fed him and took him little walks, was to let him know he was cared for and give him a reason to live. I hate the way many Thais are so careless with their dogs, that it amounts to cruelty. The King of Thailand is a dog lover, who supports shelters and has rescued dogs of his own; so you would think people who claim to love their King, would have the decency to follow his example.
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I'm glad you took this dog into your home. And, thank you very much for caring enough to do so. It's people like you who make the world a better place and a happy home for an animal who needs it.
Happy is such a cute little guy, Stewart! Very nice that your gang accepted him into the family. A lot of dogs would not have been so generous, I imagine. Not to mention people: you are fortunate to be in a position to be able to help so many unfortunate critters. It's very inspiring!
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Poor baby! There is a special place in Hades for people who hurt animals like that. So glad you rescued Happy and that he's fitting in well.
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When I load up the dogs after a walk, Pepsi always gets in the car last to check for wanderers, nearly always YU YI, sometimes SOMYING. Today was very hot so I gave them an extra rest. HAPPY, the rescue pup who was scalded at New Year,but is now fine; kept getting in the car and jumping out again, so I lost count, and Pepsi got fed up. So I thought I counted 8 dogs in the car, but YU YI had gone to hunt squirrels in the deep cover. So I drove off a dog short. Not for the first time. Our pack has the same rule as the US Marine Corps, “No dog is left behind.” So when this happens she knows I shall come back for her. Her basic training kicks in and she knows the drill, as do all the dogs. Wait in cover for Daddy to return, don’t talk to strangers, get a drink if you can. I drove back for her, and asked a couple of farm workers if they had seen her. They said no, which is what I expected; she is very shy and hides from people.
I parked in the same place under coconut trees, gave two blasts on the whistle, and she came tearing through the coconut trees to get back to me. She had the sense to go to the watering hole half a mile away and get a good soak, and was dripping wet. She always makes a big fuss when she is recovered. I usually bring Pepsi with me to find her, but he was tired, so I just brought the Dandie Dinmont. They did a celebration dance and I took them home to sleep. Note the relaxed sleep posture in the photo; also known as being absolutely shattered.... (to be continued, no doubt)
My other prodigal daughteris SOMYING, the rescue pup from the market. She is now 2 ½ years old. She has a similar habit pf disappearing at the end of a walk. But she is super friendly, so forget her not talking to starngers, It works for her. It is how she got herself rescued as a puupy. She just wandered around the market being friendly with everyone til someone (ie my Brother in Law) took her in, and brought her to me.
Four months ago, she wandered off at the end of a walk, and went missing completely for 3 weeks. I was sure she was still alive, though a slight worry was I had seen a cobra in the area where she vanished, but cobras are very shy and won't usually bother dogs, if dogs leave em alone.I told Phai that she will have latced onto some farm workers, so she will at least be eating rice only for a while. I searched the area many times that week and asked many fols out in the fields, but no one knew anything..Three weeks later, I was out with the pack and saw some farm labourers I know. A poor family with 3 kids and 3 dogs, except that day they had 4 dogs, and one new dog was Somying. They had cared for her for three weeks, and renamed her “Nang”. She was bouncing all over me and my dogs, but I gave her the choice, does she want to stay with the farmers or come with me. I didn’t leash her, just let her choose. I even fed the farm dogs a few snacks and gave some to the kids to feed them. The kids were crying and calling her back, but she wanted her original pack. I gave the family some money and thanked them for looking after her. I also promised the kids I would bring her to see them, which I do. I also bring them stuff from Phai’s shop, such as peanut brittle and nice foods. As we were sorting out the dogs, the land owner came in his truck, so we exchanged information. Apparently Somying had eaten some poison ( insecticide) while with them and had to go to the vet to sort it. My Soda did the same and the symptoms are very clear, and swift action is needed. So more ”wais” and thanks. I knew not to insult the landowner by offering money for the vet bill. Then more of the landowner's family showed up in another car, and said I obviously love dogs, would I like some more? They had a bitch with a litter. I politely declined saying that 9 dogs was quite enough, even for a nut like me. I see the family out in the fields from time to time and we always have a chat and the kids play with SOMYING aka NANG. She remembers everyone who is nice to her. Rural people in Thailand are amazingly friendly and generous. They love to chat, so knowing Thai is very useful. The photo shows Somying about a month after her return. She is much less likely to wander off now. Whenever she shows a tendency I remind her by asking her if she wants to be "Nang" again; seems to have worked. Here she knows exactly where Phai & Soda are and is showing no inclination to take off.
All About Animals
Books mentioned in this topic
The New Work of Dogs: Tending to Life, Love, and Family (other topics)Merle's Door: Lessons from a Freethinking Dog (other topics)
Another book I am sure you would enjoy is Jon Katz The New Work of Dogs: Tending to Life, Love, and Family I wrote a very positive review on his Goodreads Author page. Interesting author with a real concern for dogs and their fate. I notice my pack since writing that review has grown from 2 to 9.
You may also like my book: Of Mice and Zen. Animal Encounters in the Life of a Wandering Buddhist Stories of my life with animals, from dogs to elephants, whales to snails, camels and water buffalo. The strong emphasis is on dogs though. There are free sample chapters on my Goodreads Author page, and on Amazon, and on my website: http://www.taichi-exercises.com
Here is a quote from OF MICE & ZEN, which kind of sums up my approach to dogs, to nature and to animal welfare:
"The domestic dog is an ancient companion of humans, and it is possible that domestication was taking place as we ourselves were emerging as a separate species. This helps us understand the close and symbiotic relationship between dogs and humans. I think it is reasonable to say that our attitude to animals and to nature is part of what defines us as humans. When we are in harmony with nature and treat other species with respect, we elevate ourselves as human beings. I believe this is a spiritual and ethical matter. Of course, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and many indigenous and ancient religions endorse this attitude, but I think it applies whatever your personal belief system. Respect for nature and kindness to animals are, I believe, fundamental human values, just as respect for and kindness to other people should be. I hope that the stories which follow help to illustrate that belief as it is actually lived, and hopefully, does so in an entertaining way.”
― Stewart McFarlane, Of Mice and Zen. Animal Encounters in the Life of a Wandering Buddhist