Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
question
Self chastising: Was Dumbledore partly to blame for Snape's bitter lie?
Natascha
Jan 28, 2014 04:40PM
So I've been rereading the books and watched the last movie last night and there is something that I just can't stop thinking about.
I love the character Severus Snape. He has more layers than an onion, he was a joy to read. And I cried like an idiot when he died and I still do every time I read or see it. What pulls at my heartstrings is that Snape never moved on from Lily. He is not a good man, he has many flaws, but after all he did, he like everyone else deserved his peace. In my opinion at least, he deserved to find love again. He had 11 years to find it but didn't. Was it self punishment? Maybe, because we see it somewhere else in the book too.
Dumbledore never stopped blaming himself for the death of his sister. He battled the dark arts (and people like Tom Riddle) with the zeal partly because he dabbed in dark ideas himself when he was young. He also loved Grindelwald. A love that was never requited and ended badly. Dumbledore punished himself for falling to the call of power by becoming a teacher and later headmaster of Hogwarts where he stayed. A tad bit too much? Maybe, but what bothers me the most is how much Snape's situation paralleled his own. Snape dabbed in the dark arts, he made mistakes, he lost a love that had all his heart and soul. So why did Dumbledore just sit back and let Snape have the same fate as himself? Dumbledore actively kept Snape's love for Lily alive so he would protect Harry. For the greater good, Snape had to be locked away inside of Hogwarts. It is stated in the books that Dumbledore wouldn't even let Snape near the DADA position so he wouldn't be tempted. So Dumbledore could be seen as Snape's jailor.
My question:Did Snape choose a life of bitterness and punishment by himself? Could Snape have healed and found an other love (or anything else) to help him heal? Was Dumbledore responsible for keeping Snape's pain and therefor his bitterness alive? Should Dumbledore have played a more active part in helping Snape heal?
Tragic but true, Snape and Dumbledore deserved their redemption. Did they get it? Dumbledore did I think. He took a life of punishment away for the temptations of power. He fought Riddle and Grindelwald but still he let himself enjoy the small things in life. But reading the books I don't get the impression that Snape did. He was mean and bitter and locked himself away from all the good things in life (again my impression and opinion). And Dumbledore (even though the resemblance of situation was there) didn't help.
I hope I got my ideas through clear. Hopefully some people will respond. I'm very curious to hear other opinions.
I love the character Severus Snape. He has more layers than an onion, he was a joy to read. And I cried like an idiot when he died and I still do every time I read or see it. What pulls at my heartstrings is that Snape never moved on from Lily. He is not a good man, he has many flaws, but after all he did, he like everyone else deserved his peace. In my opinion at least, he deserved to find love again. He had 11 years to find it but didn't. Was it self punishment? Maybe, because we see it somewhere else in the book too.
Dumbledore never stopped blaming himself for the death of his sister. He battled the dark arts (and people like Tom Riddle) with the zeal partly because he dabbed in dark ideas himself when he was young. He also loved Grindelwald. A love that was never requited and ended badly. Dumbledore punished himself for falling to the call of power by becoming a teacher and later headmaster of Hogwarts where he stayed. A tad bit too much? Maybe, but what bothers me the most is how much Snape's situation paralleled his own. Snape dabbed in the dark arts, he made mistakes, he lost a love that had all his heart and soul. So why did Dumbledore just sit back and let Snape have the same fate as himself? Dumbledore actively kept Snape's love for Lily alive so he would protect Harry. For the greater good, Snape had to be locked away inside of Hogwarts. It is stated in the books that Dumbledore wouldn't even let Snape near the DADA position so he wouldn't be tempted. So Dumbledore could be seen as Snape's jailor.
My question:Did Snape choose a life of bitterness and punishment by himself? Could Snape have healed and found an other love (or anything else) to help him heal? Was Dumbledore responsible for keeping Snape's pain and therefor his bitterness alive? Should Dumbledore have played a more active part in helping Snape heal?
Tragic but true, Snape and Dumbledore deserved their redemption. Did they get it? Dumbledore did I think. He took a life of punishment away for the temptations of power. He fought Riddle and Grindelwald but still he let himself enjoy the small things in life. But reading the books I don't get the impression that Snape did. He was mean and bitter and locked himself away from all the good things in life (again my impression and opinion). And Dumbledore (even though the resemblance of situation was there) didn't help.
I hope I got my ideas through clear. Hopefully some people will respond. I'm very curious to hear other opinions.
There are similarities between Snape and Dumbledore - namely that their irresponsibility and selfishness lead to the death of someone they loved. But one huge difference between them was their motivations - their heart, so to speak.
Dumbledore did crave power and he was immature and irresponsible, but I believe he had good motives for wanting to be so powerful. I think he believed he could accomplish alot of good if he possessed so much power. Now, I also think that he was being naive since people who seek power can rarely handle it without letting it go to their head or misusing it. Which he learned later on. But at the base of it, I think he had good motives when he was younger.
Snape, on the other hand, had entirely selfish motives. He was only concerned with helping himself and endearing himself to Voldemort. The simple fact that he was looking to impress Voldemort when he told him about the prophecy, shows that he'd actively chosen evil over good.
Also, when Dumbledore's sister was killed, it was a complete accident. Dumbledore didn't intend to hurt anyone at the time. He was only acting like an irresponsible child and she got caught in the cross fire.
Snape, on the other hand, knew very well that several people could be killed by telling Voldemort about the prophecy, but he didn't care.
I think if someone had told Dumbledore ahead of time, what might happen as the result of his actions, he would have avoided it at all cost.
So, while there are some base similarities, their situations aren't really that similar.
Dumbledore punished himself for falling to the call of power by becoming a teacher and later headmaster of Hogwarts where he stayed.
I don't think Dumbledore's career choice was a punishment. I think he liked teaching and that he was good at it. I also think his position offered him opportunities to be able to accomplish things like finding and getting close to Harry and defeating Voldemort.
I don't think Snape had any great love of teaching, but I don't think he was being held hostage in Hogwarts either.
His reactions of becoming bitter and angry were all his own doing. Most people have alot of really crappy things happen to them in life, and it's up to that person to decide how they will handle them - how they will choose to react and what sort of person they will become as a result.
Two very good examples in the books are Harry and Dumbledore. As you pointed out, Dumbledore had some similarities with Snape. He also had reasons to be bitter and hate muggles for what happened to his father. But he didn't wind up that way. He wound up doing everything he could to defeat evil and he cared about other people whether they were magical or not.
Harry, arguably, had a harder life than Snape. Snape might have had a rough home life and an abusive father, but at least he had a mother who loved him. Harry could have easily become bitter and angry for everything that happened to him before he knew he had magic.
Or how about Neville?
But Snape did stay at Hogwarts because that was the job he was given by Dumbledore. After getting Lily killed, he said he'd do anything Dumbledore asked of him, in penance, and that's what it was at the time.
Dumbledore didn't hinder Snape's healing after the fact. He was giving Snape the space that he wanted. Snape was the one who told Dumbledore that he didn't want anyone to know that he loved Lily or that he was 'reformed'. He wanted to be closed off and shut down from any healing, and Dumbledore honored his wishes.
I think it was part of penance that Snape felt he needed to pay.
I don't think Dumbledore kept Snape away from the DADA position because he didn't trust him. He demonstrated that he trusted him more than just about anyone. He knew that Snape would never cave and turn evil again because he still felt the pain of his weakness, years later.
The reason he wouldn't give him that position until Harry's 6th year was because of the curse that Voldemort put on it - that anyone who took the position wouldn't last(I forget the exact curse). That's the reason that every single year, there's a different DADA teacher. Dumbledore gave Snape the position that year because he knew he would die and that Snape would be Headmaster the next year. Or at least he knew that Snape wouldn't be a professor after that year.
Could Snape have found love again? Mmmmm....maybe, but I think he was still consumed with regret for getting Lily killed. And as you pointed out extremely bitter and angry. I don't think there was much room for love in his heart.
Besides, I think he knew he would have to eventually give his life in penance, so I doubt he even wanted to think about going there.
And lets not forget, Snape didn't just say something mean or accidentally hurt someone. He aligned himself with a brutal mass murderer. He made the choice to tell his master information that would send him hunting down innocent people, knowing that those people and possibly several others would die cruelly. It was just a twist of irony that it was the one person he didn't want to die.
But Lily and James were not the only people affected by the information Snape relayed to Voldemort. He hunted Lily and James for a while before he was successful. And he probably tortured and killed alot of people in his search.
So while I think everyone deserves redemption eventually if they are truly repentant, I don't think it would have been justified for him to move on and live happily ever after ten years later, just because he said he was sorry.
And honestly, I don't think anything short of his death could be payment enough for what he did. It was too huge. Too vindictive. And I think he realized that.
Dumbledore did crave power and he was immature and irresponsible, but I believe he had good motives for wanting to be so powerful. I think he believed he could accomplish alot of good if he possessed so much power. Now, I also think that he was being naive since people who seek power can rarely handle it without letting it go to their head or misusing it. Which he learned later on. But at the base of it, I think he had good motives when he was younger.
Snape, on the other hand, had entirely selfish motives. He was only concerned with helping himself and endearing himself to Voldemort. The simple fact that he was looking to impress Voldemort when he told him about the prophecy, shows that he'd actively chosen evil over good.
Also, when Dumbledore's sister was killed, it was a complete accident. Dumbledore didn't intend to hurt anyone at the time. He was only acting like an irresponsible child and she got caught in the cross fire.
Snape, on the other hand, knew very well that several people could be killed by telling Voldemort about the prophecy, but he didn't care.
I think if someone had told Dumbledore ahead of time, what might happen as the result of his actions, he would have avoided it at all cost.
So, while there are some base similarities, their situations aren't really that similar.
Dumbledore punished himself for falling to the call of power by becoming a teacher and later headmaster of Hogwarts where he stayed.
I don't think Dumbledore's career choice was a punishment. I think he liked teaching and that he was good at it. I also think his position offered him opportunities to be able to accomplish things like finding and getting close to Harry and defeating Voldemort.
I don't think Snape had any great love of teaching, but I don't think he was being held hostage in Hogwarts either.
His reactions of becoming bitter and angry were all his own doing. Most people have alot of really crappy things happen to them in life, and it's up to that person to decide how they will handle them - how they will choose to react and what sort of person they will become as a result.
Two very good examples in the books are Harry and Dumbledore. As you pointed out, Dumbledore had some similarities with Snape. He also had reasons to be bitter and hate muggles for what happened to his father. But he didn't wind up that way. He wound up doing everything he could to defeat evil and he cared about other people whether they were magical or not.
Harry, arguably, had a harder life than Snape. Snape might have had a rough home life and an abusive father, but at least he had a mother who loved him. Harry could have easily become bitter and angry for everything that happened to him before he knew he had magic.
Or how about Neville?
But Snape did stay at Hogwarts because that was the job he was given by Dumbledore. After getting Lily killed, he said he'd do anything Dumbledore asked of him, in penance, and that's what it was at the time.
Dumbledore didn't hinder Snape's healing after the fact. He was giving Snape the space that he wanted. Snape was the one who told Dumbledore that he didn't want anyone to know that he loved Lily or that he was 'reformed'. He wanted to be closed off and shut down from any healing, and Dumbledore honored his wishes.
I think it was part of penance that Snape felt he needed to pay.
I don't think Dumbledore kept Snape away from the DADA position because he didn't trust him. He demonstrated that he trusted him more than just about anyone. He knew that Snape would never cave and turn evil again because he still felt the pain of his weakness, years later.
The reason he wouldn't give him that position until Harry's 6th year was because of the curse that Voldemort put on it - that anyone who took the position wouldn't last(I forget the exact curse). That's the reason that every single year, there's a different DADA teacher. Dumbledore gave Snape the position that year because he knew he would die and that Snape would be Headmaster the next year. Or at least he knew that Snape wouldn't be a professor after that year.
Could Snape have found love again? Mmmmm....maybe, but I think he was still consumed with regret for getting Lily killed. And as you pointed out extremely bitter and angry. I don't think there was much room for love in his heart.
Besides, I think he knew he would have to eventually give his life in penance, so I doubt he even wanted to think about going there.
And lets not forget, Snape didn't just say something mean or accidentally hurt someone. He aligned himself with a brutal mass murderer. He made the choice to tell his master information that would send him hunting down innocent people, knowing that those people and possibly several others would die cruelly. It was just a twist of irony that it was the one person he didn't want to die.
But Lily and James were not the only people affected by the information Snape relayed to Voldemort. He hunted Lily and James for a while before he was successful. And he probably tortured and killed alot of people in his search.
So while I think everyone deserves redemption eventually if they are truly repentant, I don't think it would have been justified for him to move on and live happily ever after ten years later, just because he said he was sorry.
And honestly, I don't think anything short of his death could be payment enough for what he did. It was too huge. Too vindictive. And I think he realized that.
As I see it, Snape's and Dumbledore's situations are nothing a like, like Kristen says...
And lets remember: Even though Snape had joined in with Voldemort, it was not Snape who sold out Lily and James, that was Peter Pettigrew... Snape was the one who warned Dumbledore about the prophecy, given Dumbledore a chance to warn Lily and James, and they thusly could cast the spell, that hid them in Godrics Hollow (can't remember the name).
When Snape handed the prophecy to Voldemort (I can't remember if it really is him, but I'll take your word for it), he had no idea, Voldy would thinkb it pertained to Lily and James.
When Snape found out, he warned Dumbledore.
When given this knowledge, Dumbledore asks what's in it for him, to help Snape by hiding Lily, and Snape then become Dombledore's spy inside Voldy's ranks.
I believe, and I mean there are foundations for this believe in books, that Dumbledore keeps Snape away from the DADA position, so as Snape won't be tempted.
What is this DADA curse? I've never heard about it being an actually curse, but more just a rumor, made up in the young minds of the Hogwarts pupils...
And lets remember: Even though Snape had joined in with Voldemort, it was not Snape who sold out Lily and James, that was Peter Pettigrew... Snape was the one who warned Dumbledore about the prophecy, given Dumbledore a chance to warn Lily and James, and they thusly could cast the spell, that hid them in Godrics Hollow (can't remember the name).
When Snape handed the prophecy to Voldemort (I can't remember if it really is him, but I'll take your word for it), he had no idea, Voldy would thinkb it pertained to Lily and James.
When Snape found out, he warned Dumbledore.
When given this knowledge, Dumbledore asks what's in it for him, to help Snape by hiding Lily, and Snape then become Dombledore's spy inside Voldy's ranks.
I believe, and I mean there are foundations for this believe in books, that Dumbledore keeps Snape away from the DADA position, so as Snape won't be tempted.
What is this DADA curse? I've never heard about it being an actually curse, but more just a rumor, made up in the young minds of the Hogwarts pupils...
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Dec 21, 2014 02:35PM · flag