Rams Readers Spring 2014 discussion
Discussion Questions for The Great Gatsby
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1. Gatsby- selfish ambition Daisy- greedy neediness
Nick- voice of reason and balance
Jordan- rough around the edges and scandalousness
George and Myrtle- the leftover poor and everyday people
Tom- intolerant old money that keeps others down
I think Nick seems the most real because I don’t see him as such a huge symbol- he seems more everyman. I sympathize with Daisy the most because everyone wants more, everyone wants stuff, everyone wants success, but most people come to the realization that those things don’t equal true lasting fulfillment.
I think Nick’s biggest change is in his attitude toward success during that time: he goes from being excited and an ambitious wealth-seeker to being put off by all he sees. He distances himself from all that he thought he wanted.
2. I think Gatsby is “great” in Carraway’s mind, but I think the author is being ironic with his title definitely. Gatsby was larger than life on the outside, but he was like a house on shaky foundations.
3. My theory: she was overwhelmed by how his life had changed since she last saw him. Maybe she was even sad for what she would miss being married to Tom.
4. Somewhat a paradox I know, but her choice did surprise me. I got caught up in the love story. But her actions were in keeping with her character. She needs comfort and provision, and she is annoyingly delicate too. She needed more and more and did not give anything in return.
5. Yes, I think he must represent the American Dream or the America of the time. Based on Gatsby’s appearance/parties, and his obsessive, emotional state- I think the author is not very optimistic about American at that time. Basically= glittery/powerful/charismatic on the outside and shaky/insecure/needy on the inside. Money isn’t everything and material gain is fleeting and not-lasting.
First of all, I have to say I just LOVE this book. It is truly a classic piece of literature!Jay Gatsby: Is a mysterious millionaire who has everything but the love of his life.
Daisy: Is a little bit conceited and shallow, longs for attention.
Nick: Is ambitious, laid-back and optimistic.
Jordan: Is confidant, somewhat mysterious, has a reputation.
George: Is a basic middle class man,naive.
Myrtle: Is unfaithful, and little compassion for infidelities.
Tom: Is your typical rich man, , with a trophy wife, arrogant, and unfaithful.
I am most sympathetic with Daisy's character. She seems stuck in the situation. She loves both Jay and Tom, but has different relationships with both. You can tell she is IN love with Jay and the relationship they had in the past.
I feel like the events in the story affect Nick's character. In the beginning he seemed naive, but optimistic. Because his character is so easy going he sort of rolls through all the conflicts and observes. Through these events he realizes that the real life of his friends on the inside is not what it seems from the outside. Nick is the most rational character and is realistic enough to see the downfall of events.
I think that the title is the "Great" Gatsby, because on the outside he is great. Everything that a man could want to be, and everything that a woman would want to be with. However, as we learn money does not buy everything. The idea of Gatsby is great, and everything that he does is great, but I don't think he himself would consider himself "great". I think he author purposefully used this word for the irony.
I think at this point in the story, Daisy feels trapped between both worlds. Her past love, and her current relationship. Sort of "between a rock and a hard place" situation. Daisy longs for her love with Gatsby and what they had.
I believe that Daisy made this choice due to Tom's control over her. He knows just what to say to keep her in her place. I think that she is afraid of the unknown of the life with Gatsby, and she is comfortable with the life with Tom. I was surprised, I think this was a turn in the story that kept the reader reading because you were wondering "what were you thinking!?"
I think the author wants to give you the impression that he represents the "american dream", but he is saying that the dream is not always as it seems. Even when Gatsby could have had any and everything he wanted, he still didn't have the one thing he longed for which was Daisy. To me, the idea of the story is that money doesn't buy happiness, love, acceptance. The real american dream in my eyes is Nick. He is a character has so many opportunities and open doors, and he has the options of what path to choose.
I just love this book, and could read it over and over!
Mod
1. Gatsby represents hope. He never falters in his commitment to an idealized love. Daisy is child like although she doesn't possess the innocence of a child. She is weak and helpless which causes her to become self serving. She is almost the anti-Gatsby. Nick is naïve. He claims that he reserves judgment when in actuality he really just fails to make any true decisions and questions his own skepticism and instincts. Jordan I am unsure of. I think she mostly represents promise to Nick. The promise of love and of a future but of course he is quick to dismiss his feelings. George is destruction. His life is destroyed by the indirect actions of the rich. This hard working man, who is the only innocent character up until the end, becomes broken and in turn seeks to be the breaker. Myrtle temporarily lives in two worlds; the rich one with Tom in the apartment and the poor one with George in the garage. The instability of the situation and her ultimate demise may be a nod at the times. Old money, new money, no money start to overlap and the tables can even turn (bootleggers being an example). But nothing lasts forever. Tom is egotistical, arrogant, and yet also insecure. He is quickly made out to be the villain in this novel but him and Daisy are actually pretty perfect for one another (in the terrible sense). Being real doesn’t mean being without fault. Nick has this façade of innocence that he conveys yet doesn’t bat an eye at the affair between Gatsby and Daisy that began with tea at his house. He is wavering in his convictions if it can be said that he has any convictions at all. He tells Daisy that he isn’t serious with anyone as she had heard but then feels the need to break things off with that someone once he begins spending time with Jordan. His disdain for both Gatsby and Tom at various times is shown but never acted upon. His presentation of himself seems as fake as Jay Gatsby is in name. All of the characters are real. They may not all be likable but they all commit actions for various motives. None of the characters are innocent in the events that took place in the novel but they are who they are; good or bad or both.
Ok, I may take some slack for this but I find Gatsby sympathetic. I should say George who, as far as Nick conveyed in his narration, didn’t deserve the outcome his was given, but I find something very relatable about Gatsby’s over idealized first love. We all have regrets and wish we could change things, sometimes we wish to change ourselves, but he took it all to a new level. I guess I find all of his wasted effort a little tragic. Despite the infidelity, I always find myself rooting for him. Daisy succeeded in breaking his heart twice, but he still had hope. He still loved her.
I think there is a change in Nick. His rose colored lenses seem to have slowly lifted and now they are gone completely. He seems more cynical and critical. New York and the East has lost any luster it once held for him. However, as you can see in his interaction with Tom, he still seems like a man with no legs to stand on. He despises Tom yet shakes his hand without much objection. He still can’t decide whether or not he loves Jordan. I think her description of him is accurate: he comes across and genuine and honest but he can’t be honest with himself let alone anyone else. But it is a deep honesty I mean. Not white lies but the deep down truth of the matter. The truth of people and emotions.
2. Nick calling Gatsby great is like someone introducing a magician. Ladies and gentlemen! The Great so and so will now amaze you with his illusions! That is exactly what Gatsby does. He creates this grand illusion. You know how a magician will focus your attention to the right while he does something less magical on his left? That is exactly what Gatsby does. And you know how let down you are when you realize that coin didn’t really form out of thin air behind your ear? That is exactly who James Gatz is; the man behind the curtain.
3. I don’t think there is much symbolism when it comes to Daisy. She fell in love with the promise of Gatsby, the dream not yet fulfilled. I do think she loved Gatsby (and Tom) but it is a superficial love. She cried into those shirts because she felt the sting of regret for not waiting longer. She is embarrassed by Tom’s infidelities and unhappy. Could she have been happy with Gatsby especially now that he also has fine things to offer her? Could he even have more to offer her than Tom? That’s the real question that gets to her I think.
4. Again, I find Daisy very superficial so I am not surprised by her choice. Tom hit her with a dose of reality when he revealed the ugly side of Gatsby whether wholly true or not. She made her choice based on her self-serving nature. Suddenly Tom was the safe choice because his money was not in immediate danger of disappearing. His money and position were secure while Gatsby’s was not. She may have loved parts of them both, but her future was going to be based on who could do what for her.
5. Fitzgerald is saying that the American Dream is an illusion. George worked hard and honestly but never reached any kind of success; his dream never a reality. In fact, it became his nightmare. Tom had success that was merely given to him at birth in terms of status and wealth but was still unhappy and acted in ways that threatened it all. Gatsby went from no one to someone in a grand way (through side deals and threats) but still yearned for the most basic riches; love. So Gatsby too was unhappy. In the end his dream, just within his reach at one point, was ripped from him forever and with it all that he had worked for.
Tricia, I loved how you described Gatsby as being great by appearances but a house built on shaky ground. You could see how unstable his lifestyle was. However, you described him also as having selfish ambition. I thought the sole purpose of all the pomp and circumstance was for Daisy. It seemed everything he did was an attempt to please her rather than elevate himself. He was unhappy with his social status very early on in life so he was absolutely ambitious but I don't think it always came from a negative place.
I love this book. I read it in high school but I did not understand some of the symbolism then like I do know. I could read this book over and over again.1. Daisy represents the women of the "elite" social class, the unattainable, perfect woman. Jordan represents the 1920s; she represents the changes the time provided for women of that period. Gatsby represents the American Dream. Nick represents Midwestern values, although those values are tainted for a time. Myrtle represents unhappy women of all generations. Tom represents power, money, and the elite view that having money excuses your actions. The character that seems the most real to be would have to be Jay Gatsby. He seems the most real because of how hard he worked for what he wanted. I think Nick is the most sympathetic because he feels for most of the characters in the story in one way or another. The events in the novel affect Nick Carraway by opening his eyes to the world that he thought he wanted to be a part of. After seeing how fake and hurtful it is he wants no part in it.
2. Jay Gatsby is great. He became wealthy with his hard work and dedication. Fitzgerald’s title is both sincere and ironic. The title is sincere because Gatsby was great in what he accomplished but the title is also ironic considering Gatsby is someone Jay made up.
3. Daisy sobs into the "thick folds" of Gatsby's beautiful shirts because she realizes what she has been missing out on and regrets not waiting for Gatsby to return from war.
4. Daisy's ultimate choice did not surprise me. I was sad for Gatsby. It is consistent with her character.
5. Yes, I do think Gatsby represents the American Dream. I think Fitzgerald is trying to say that the American Dream in the 1920's was superficial.
Tricia wrote: " I think the author is not very optimistic about American at that time."I completely agree with you. If Fitzgerald was optimistic about the American Dream he would have wrote a different ending to the story.
Jaime- I can see why you would sympathize with Daisy to a degree. The whole motel section where she bounced between Gatsby and Tom was uncomfortable even just to read! I couldn't imagine being in that situation... Oh probably because I would never put myself in that situation!! Annnd that's where my sympathy towards her ends. Ha ha. But really, one of my least favorite book characters probably ever.
This is the first time I have read this book. I'm not really sure who or what everyone represents. I like Gatsby. In the end, it seems he has made his fortune by himself -- maybe not all on the up and up due to his association with Meyer Wolfsheim. I think he is lonely, and that is why he has so many parties surrounding himself with people he doesn't really know. The sound of Daisy's voice attracts others. Nick describes it as low and thrilling, indiscreet. Gatsby says, "Her voice is full of money." I wondered if he had attained his money and house so that he would finally be acceptable and attractive to her. Was money the reason she made her choice for marriage in favor of Tom instead of Gatsby? I think in the beginning she is worried abut her marriage but doesn't really know what she can do about Tom's waywardness. Nick seems very even handed, but I think he allows others around him to make decisions for him. He finds himself in places he probably doesn't need to be, but that makes him a great narrator for the story. I suppose he makes his living honestly and lives within his means since his home is much more humble than those around him. I don't like Myrtle. I think she is disappointed and disgusted with her own husband, but I think he is trying to make an honest living. I see her as a social climber. I don't like that she talks against Daisy. I think she wants everything Daisy has, but I see her as being enamored with the money and status, but not having any class. I don't like Tom because he runs around on his wife and because he is physically violent with Myrtle. In the end he sets Gatsby up and is dishonest with George to protect Daisy and probably his social status. I think Jordan thinks for herself, but she enables others to do things they shouldn't be doing.Jordan and Nick seem the most real to me. I think I find George the most sympathetic.
How does Nick Carraway change? I think he becomes more real and honest in the end. I think he is somewhat disgusted with Daisy and Tom. He wants Gatsby's father to think well of Gatsby, and he is upset that no one is interested in attending his funeral. I think he and Jordan enjoyed each other's company, but I think they also know each other pretty well and it's probably a good thing they didn't continue or deepen their involvement.
2) Is Jay Gatsby great? I don't think Jay Gatsby is great, but I think he represents material wealth and social status that is enticing to most people to some degree. I guess Fitzgerald's title is more ironic than sincere.
3) Why do you think Daisy sobs into the "thick folds" of Gatsby's beautiful shirts? The beautiful shirts represent the life she would be living in if she had chosen differently. But if she had chosen Gatsby in the beginning would he have all of this wealth? Would he and Daisy have been like George and Myrtle? A man trying to make an honest living with the woman he loves while her eyes are set on the security of wealth and society? Perhaps her not choosing him became his motivation to attain the wealth so he would have a chance with her.
4) New York and Daisy's ultimate choice -
I don't think Daisy has the courage to make any change. I think Tom controls her somewhat and that's fine with her because she doesn't have to make any decisions.
5) Does Gatsby represent the American Dream? I hope not. I hope the American Dream still involves hard work and honesty and treating others fairly. I hope it involves real friendship instead of status.
Jenna - I like your point that George worked hard and was honest but had not achieved any success.
The Great Gatsby1. Whom do you think the characters in The Great Gatsby represent (Gatsby, Daisy, Nick, Jordan George, Myrtle, Tom)? Which characters seem the most real to you who, if any do you find most sympathetic? Most important, in what way do the events of the novel affect Nick Carraway? How, or to what degree, does he change?
Gatsby- ambition, self-determination, the American dream personified.
Daisy- Gold-digger, shallow, Amorality, she is a shallow, selfish and spoiled.
Tom- Elitism, Wealth, Aristocratic bully.
Nick- the philosopher, lost in the chaos of New York.
Jordan George- the early form of the liberated woman
Myrtle- the hopelessly trapped woman of the day
2. Is Jay Gatsby great? What is the meaning of the title? Is Fitzgerald's title sincere, or ironic?
This is a tough question because as a person he doesn’t seem so great but if you look at him symbolically which I think is what Fitzgerald is trying to, he represents the pursuit of his American dream. The American Dream means different things to different people. Gatsby is a self-made man who worked hard to get where he wanted to go and we don’t see this until his father shows up for his funeral. For Gatsby his American dream was getting Daisy and all his pursuits were for that end. I think the great man in this story is Nick. He doesn’t allow the people of the world like Daisy, Tom, and Jordan change him. He is deeply affected by them but they don’t corrupt him. He turns out to be the only friend of Gatsby which is very sad.
3. Why do you think Daisy sobs into the "thick folds" of Gatsby's beautiful shirts?
I think she is so overwhelmed by his wealth and nothing more.
4. When Gatsby confronts Tom in New York, did Daisy's ultimate choice surprise you? Is it consistent with her character?
It did surprise me but it is consistent with her behavior. She is a shallow, selfish person who cares nothing for anyone but herself which is perfectly evident in the next chapter when Nick finds her sitting and eating fried chicken after hitting Myrtle with Gatsby’s car and allowing him to take the blame.
5. Do you think Gatsby represents the American Dream? What do you think Fitzgerald is saying about the American Dream in the 1920's?
I do believe Gatsby represents the American Dream and I think Fitzgerald is saying the American Dream is dying and I think it parallels what we are facing today. The uncertainty social of our future. I think he sees the 1920’s as a time of moral and social decay, women reeling from the confinement of the Victorian Era, are wearing their dresses shorter and cutting their hair short. It is the beginnings of the rebellion of women and the rise of women’s rights. Americans are disillusioned but within this there is still hope to some extent.
I had a hard time reading this book because their is a lot of jumping around but I did get through it. I thought the book was okay I guess but it wasn't fun to read however, I can see why it is a classic of American Literature and why English teachers love it. It has all the element of great fiction, such as Theme (The Decline of the American Dream in the 1920's), Motifs (recurring structures, contrasts, and literary devices such as Geography and Weather, as well as, Symbols. Such symbols were, "The Green Light," "The Valley of Ashes," and "The Eyes of Doctor T. J. Eckleburg." It is a good book to teach such things but still very hard to read.
I agree with you. Gatsby had everything in the world but wasn't happy. I really felt very sorry for him. He was willing to overlook everthing and possibly would have gone to jail for her for the murder of Myrtle. Although he was not seeing the reality of Daisy he did love her very much or what he thought was her. I think sometimes young love is like that. We have an image in our minds of what the true love of our life is to be like and try so hard to make that happen. It gives truth to the old saying, "Love is blind." I don't think our children today would get into this and they would probably hate it.
Jaime wrote: "First of all, I have to say I just LOVE this book. It is truly a classic piece of literature!
Jay Gatsby: Is a mysterious millionaire who has everything but the love of his life.
Daisy: Is a littl..."
I find myself being sympathetic towards Daisy simply because she's married however she's in love with someone else and her husband is having an affair on her. She is definitely caught in the middle but yet ends up following her heart. Nick is put in the middle of everything it starts when he invited Daisy to his house in an attempt to have her and Gatsby together. The title of the story is very symbolic because Gatsby is "great" in a sense. He is rich and gets most of what he wants. Fitgerald is saying that the American dream is to have fortune and love. I think Daisy's character is an outcry of a helpless woman who just wants to be loved. I believe the underlining message in the story, is you can have all of the money in the world but love trumps all. I remember reading this book back in high school and to be honest I don't remember half of the things I read in the book this time. Now that I read it again with a different 'schema' I understand what I was reading. I believe this book would probably be better for an advanced English high school class.
Cathy wrote: "I agree with you. Gatsby had everything in the world but wasn't happy. I really felt very sorry for him. He was willing to overlook everthing and possibly would have gone to jail for her for the mu..."I agree with you, I had to read this book in high school and I disliked it. I don't think high school students would appreciate this book nor can they relate to the events in the book.
Maira wrote: "Tricia wrote: " I think the author is not very optimistic about American at that time."I completely agree with you. If Fitzgerald was optimistic about the American Dream he would have wrote a dif..."
I too agree with you, he isn't very optimistic about the American Dream. I don't think he is more concerned with the realities of the world. Some of his books deal with the harshness and cruelty that we sometimes face. One in particular is "Of Mice and Men." I like this boo also and I feel so sorry for Lennie in it. So I guess what I am saying is that I think Steinbeck is somewhat of a realist.
1. Whom do you think the characters in The Great Gatsby represent (Gatsby, Daisy, Nick, Jordan George, Myrtle, Tom). Which characters seem the most real to you Who, if any do you find most sympathetic? Most important, in what way do the events of the novel affect Nick Carraway? How, or to what degree, does he change?
2. Is jay Gatsby great? What is the meaning of the title? Is Fitzgerald's title sincere, or ironic?
3. Why do you think Daisy sobs into the "thick folds" of Gatsby's beautiful shirts?
4. When Gatsby confronts Tom in new York, did Daisy's ultimate choice surprise you? Is it consistent with her character?
5. Do you think Gatsby represents the American Dream? What do you think Fitzgerald is saying about the American Dream in the 1920's?