DISCUSSION OPEN! - 2014 Group Read #1 - The End of Alice

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

I had a similarly sympathetic view to Chappy. I think it's because his story of being preyed on is so compelling, even though you realise it's probably not true. You do, kinda want it to be true though. For that reason, my heart sank when Alice was killed. I think I actually said, "oh" out loud. Obviously we know she's going to be killed, but when it happens, you can't really excuse Chappy anymore.

[Marc]

Ruby wrote: "Obviously we know she's going to be killed..."

Maybe that's what numbed me a bit--that I knew it was an inevitability, I just didn't know how (or when, although by that point, there's not many pages left). [Now that I have the book back in my hand and just looked over the report of Alice's murder, it seems it was Chappy's version that didn't move me as much--the actual coroner's report that the secretary reads aloud is pretty damn brutal and upsetting. I have this horrible habit of forgetting exactly how books end... ]

Official documentation (police or news reports) or direct quotes from other characters are the only external verification we get to counter Chappy's unreliability. What is is that we can say for sure as readers? Chappy is in jail for the murder and rape of Alice. He seems well known outside of jail for his crime. And he receives letters and some of them from a college-aged girl. Is everything beyond this grey?

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

Marc wrote: "What is is that we can say for sure as readers? Chappy is in jail for the murder and rape of Alice. He seems well known outside of jail for his crime. And he receives letters and some of them from a college-aged girl. Is everything beyond this grey? ..."

Yes. And even some of that is actually a bit grey, I think!

[Leo]

Don't know how relevant it is but your discussions reminded me of this article (a little distressing btw):

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/...

[Richard]

great article, albeit very distressing / depressing. thanks for putting it up. that song bugs me as it is so damn catchy and by sheer radio play alone my 6 year old daughter sings it sometimes

it's upsetting how damn many people have been abused. in my limited social circles (i really don't overly like people) i think i know 2 guys and 10+ women who have been raped and several adults who were abused as kids. hell even i was inappropriately touched by a physical education teacher but to be honest he went through the entire class of boys so given it happened to all of us none of us seemed to come away any the worse - given we were kids it just seemed to be what happened in PE class.


raising colour blind orientation accepting non abusive athiest kids, that's my aim these days

[Marc]

I know this discussion has pretty much petered out, but one thought came to me, which I would be curious to hear opinions about...

What did people make of the fact that Chappy originally believes his college penpal to be just like him, but that her experience with Matthew appears to turn out more like a one-time thing? How did you see Chappy reacting to this? Did it change the way he viewed himself any?

[Ruby , Mistress of Chaos]

Marc wrote: "I know this discussion has pretty much petered out, but one thought came to me, which I would be curious to hear opinions about...

What did people make of the fact that Chappy originally believes ..."

My memory of that bit was that he started viewing her with disdain - as an "amateur". He still sees himself as an "artiste", a professional in his field.

Did you see any change in his sense of himself, Marc?

[Marc]

Ruby wrote: "My memory of that bit was that he started viewing her with disdain - as an "amateur". He still sees himself as an "artiste", a professional in his field.

Did you see any change in his sense of himself, Marc?"

I had to return the book to the library so I can't go back and check, but I feel like her not being truly like him kind of took the wind out of Chappy's sails. He definitely reacted with disdain, but I have it in my head that this made it harder for him to keep up his charade of superiority... Like it was the beginning of his self-mythos unraveling... like it was... (ok, I'll not make you suffer any more from the rantings that sleep deprivation induces in me).

[Leo]

Ruby wrote: "My memory of that bit was that he started viewing her with disdain - as an "amateur". He still sees himself as an "artiste", a professional in his field. "

There was a (in)famous(?) 3 episode thing in the UK called 'The Search for Britain's Paedophiles' where some had started a club and described it as "the hobby"- certainly it was apparent that they distinguish between each other in a hierarchy but in degrees of badness- like 'I've only done this this many times, I'm not as bad as the guys that have done the other thing more times'- there was also a Louis Theroux documentary about a prison for sex offenders? This is all still on Youtube I believe (if relevant)

[Jennifer]

I just finished this book. I shall share my review.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...