Week 2

[Askmiddlearth]

This week we're reading chapters 4, 5, and 6 of Fellowship of the Ring!

[H]

I read this weeks chapters and so far I'm liking the book much more than when I read them the first time a year ago. Perhaps it's because I'm reading it in English instead of Finnish and the Finnish version seemed so... How to put it... Well, of course books are always best in their original language. I also remember not liking Tom Bombadil that much but so far he seems interesting, his songs and the way he speaks are better in English :D
Also now that I've read The Silmarillion, The Unfinished Tales and The Children of Hurin, it's more interesting to read lotr because I know the history and things that have happened before :D

[Meaghan]

It was around the end of this weeks reading that I started to actually get into the story the first time I read these books. I always found Tom Bombadil super interesting and was completely disappointed that they left him out of the movies (although I understand why they left him out). It's interesting that Tom is never really explained in any of Tolkien's writing. I've heard a few educate guesses from scholars though. I recommend listening to the Tolkien Professor podcast with Corey Olsen for a really good discussion about Bombadil.

The part that really struck me this time reading these chapters was Frodo's dream. I had completely forgotten about that part and it's only a paragraph at the end of the 5th chapter but it's very interesting. A good bit of foreshadowing. What do other people think about it?

[darchildre]

So, since we're talking about Tom Bombadil, what does everyone think is up with him? I mean, he's not an elf but he's apparently older than everything and is immensely powerful. Where does he come from? Why is he there? Any thoughts?

(I read something on wikipedia a little while ago about how Tom Bombadil is influenced by the figure of Vainamoinen in the Kalevala, which is super interesting but not really an in-world explanation. I do really like that Tom's songs and a lot of his prose dialogue seems to my untrained ear to be in the same meter as the Kalevala, though.)

[H]

I thought about Väinämöinen too when reading about Tom. Both Väinämöinen and Tom Bombadil are old, friends with nature and know everything and communicate by singing songs and telling poetry, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if Tom indeed was based on Väinämöinen. Wasn't Gandalf also influenced by him also (the white beard, both Gandalf and Väinämöinen being wise and old)?
(Might be going a bit off-topic now) But for me Tom's poetry doesn't sound like Väinämöinen's when talking about the poetry's metre. I don't know how the Kalevala is translated in English, but in Finnish (the Kalevala is Finland's national epic) we have this metre called "Kalevalamitta" in which the Kalevala is written. At least the Finnish translator didn't put Tom's songs in that way.

Just for comparings sake:
Tom's song in English:
"Now let the song begin! Let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather,"

And translated in Finnish:
"Laulu alkaa saa jo nyt! Kaikki laulakaamme,
tähdistä, kuusta ja auringosta ja sateesta laulaa saamme,"

But when comparing to Kalevala, it doesn't have the same rythm
The first lines from the Kalevala:
"Mieleni minun tekevi,
aivoni ajattelevi
lähteäni laulamahan,
saa'ani sanelemahan,
sukuvirttä suoltamahan,
lajivirttä laulamahan."

And in English:
"I am wanting, I am thinking
To arise and go forth singing,
Sing my songs and say my sayings,
Hymns ancestral harmonizing,
Lore of kindred lyricking."

Of course, maybe I'm taking the comparing too far and I'm going a bit off-topic (sorry about that), but I now noticed myself when searching that poem in English that Tom's poetry sounds a bit like from the Kalevala (I don't know anything about English poetry so really it's hard for me to say). But I do think that there are a lot of similarities between the Lord of the Rings and the Kalevala, not only just Tom and Gandalf but some other characters and stuff too, the story of Turin Turambar for example is just Tolkien's version of Kalevala's Kullervo.

And as for who or what Tom Bombadil is, I really don't have any opinions. I did read an interesting thing about him on Tumblr though (shameless link to my own blog coming now since apparently the text had been deleted from the source or something): http://faramiri.tumblr.com/post/71122... What if? :D

[borchielein]

This is interesting. And I would think that it influenced Tolkien, because I'm pretty sure he knew about the Kalevala.
Didn't Finnish also influence his Elvish languages? (Quenya? I'm not sure, but I think I read it once)

[borchielein]

The part that really struck me this time reading these chapters was Frodo's dream. I had completely forgotten about that part and it's only a paragraph at the end of the 5th chapter but it's very interesting. A good bit of foreshadowing. What do other people think about it?

Yes, same here, I also forgot about it. And yes, definitely foreshadowing. This also makes the part a lot more interesting when you've already read LotR at least once, I guess.

[Hika86]

MissJonards wrote: "The part that really struck me this time reading these chapters was Frodo's dream. I had completely forgotten about that part and it's only a paragraph at the end of the 5th chapter but it's very i..."

I was trying to analyze it. Some elemets are clear to me since it's not the first time I read the book, but some other... I can't explain them.

[Hika86]

Ah, sorry guys if I'm changin the subject =P
I was jus wondergin what do you think about the scene at the Ferry on the Brandy-wine river.
The book and the movie version are quite different. Which one do you prefer?

[borchielein]

I totally had forgotten about the fact that it's actually Merry they meet at the ferry and not the Black Rider. I think it was a good choice that PJ did it to make the viewer more aware of the danger, but I also liked the moment of relief you get as a reader when it's in fact Merry.
Because I had forgotten about it I was just as relieved as a first time reader. lol

[Meaghan]

I agree. I don't think the Ferry scene would have played out well on screen if PJ hadn't changed it. It works really well in the book but I feel it would drag on too long. The chase scene worked really well in the film and made the viewer aware that danger was right on Frodo's heels and he needed to hurry. The book gives a bit of this, but still allows the hobbits time to get to Frodo's house, eat, have a bath and sleep before taking off in the early morning. I like both ways it's portrayed, but each belongs where it is. They would not play out well in the others' medium.

[Hika86]

Yup I basically agree with you.
I guess the choice for the chasing scene was also because the movie didn't shows the scene of the Back Rider crawling and sniffing near Frodo in the wood (before Gildol's company arrives). That was a quite scaring scene, but since they didn't show it, the chasing near the ferry could be a goods idea.
For a movie, that suspance scene was a wonderful choice!
But off course I like also the book version. Thanks Sam, who always watch behind!