Victorians! discussion
Archived Group Reads 2014
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Preparing for the No Name Read
Mod
I agree, it moves fast. I'd also like you to post the discussion groups all at once because I have an annotated copy of the book and I'll copy the comments into the discussion thread so everyone can see it. It explains things like "Parliamentary train" and why the theaters (excuse me, theaters!) were fewer in the 1840's. good info.
oh, wow, that commentary would be really interesting to check out, Teresa.
My joke got auto-corrected. I meant to say theatres -the British spelling in my book. I'll also try to explain why the main character's name is so shocking, and apt.
Great suggestions! I am glad we have some interested readers preparing for the discussion. We will continue to watch this thread for the next few days and see who may be interested. We encourage members to glance at the novel to see what you think of it--we want you to discuss with us!Teresa, thanks for offering annotations. We will have to see the response to this. Over the years there has been a preference to place supplemental information in a separate thread; that keeps the actual discussion thread more clean and easy to see for our own conversation. Members can zip over to the supplemental thread when needed and still benefit from the information. Especially helpful if several members want to contribute this sort of info. We will find a happy medium for posting, Teresa.
Thanks and please keep posting more thoughts.
Hi SarahCI am a new member who will be joining you after February 10th. So first, hello.
I think the annotations would be great to have as a reference point and would be happy to see them either listed in a supplemental thread or placed directly in the discussion.
That's not really helpful, I guess, but just so you know a newbie is happy with any decision you take.
I think that knowing why this book is so "shocking" and the annotations really enhance the enjoyment of the book.
Spoilers may be an issue for this book. We may want to review how to hide spoilers.
The annotations will provide great information I am sure. Teresa, if you have a moment, would you like to recommend your annotated edition of the novel for others who might like to check it out? I can tell you my Oxford U, 1986 edition, does not have extensive explanatory notes.Sure, a reminder on hiding spoilers will be great. We can post that here or in the discussion ahead. The "hide spoiler" is fairly easy and does help in places where not all members are ready for certain information to be revealed.
I know that perhaps it's a bit late in the day, but I've just been reading the Wilkie Collins biography by Kenneth Robinson and it is absolutely fantastic. I found it on archive.org.
SarahC wrote: "The annotations will provide great information I am sure. Teresa, if you have a moment, would you like to recommend your annotated edition of the novel for others who might like to check it out? I ..."SarahC:
Happy New Year. Welcome back. I like Peter's idea of putting the annontations in a supplemental thread. That way readers can look at it at their convenience. Also, readers will be warned ahead of time that it contains spoilers. Thank you very much and make it a great day.
Whimi.
I have the Penquin Classics published in about 1994. It has a nice Introduction that is 10 pages long.
This is a wonderful book! One of Collins' best. I read it a couple of years ago and loved it.
I will probably be reading the Gutenberg copy on either my Kindle or my Nook.It has scenes (eight, numbered one through seven and then last) with internal chapters in the scenes and has the Between the Scenes interludes. It's free for anybody either to read on their computer, download onto an e-book reader (or tablet or probably smart phone) at
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1438
As to the organization of discussions, I have pretty much given up on looking for serious book discussion where all the sections are posted at the start of the reading. I think that approach is best for accommodating various reading styles, but my experience is that people separate fairly early on. The fast readers move ahead and are done quite quickly. They may post as they read, but then they (quite reasonably) move on to other books and generally don't come back to discuss the later sections with readers who are reading more according to the scheduled time period. The discussion of Can You Forgive Her is a good example of this pattern. The early two sections had considerable interest as all the readers were basically starting out together, but then the discussion straggled off. There were a few posts on the later sections by fast readers, but not enough of the "by the schedule" readers were there to respond, and by the time the "schedule" readers were there the fast readers were gone and done. Without enough people participating in the discussion of a section, it lacks depth and interest, and increasingly people drop out of the discussion because there's not enough action to keep things enjoyable and rich.
(In fact, there was no proposed schedule posted in the discussion topic; it was just set as a two month read with no indication of a proposed reading schedule, so people just read at whatever pace they decided to with no uniform proposed schedule to look at.)
So I think the question boils down to, do you want to give members preferred reading pace preference at the expense of a quality discussion, or do you want to try to get the best discussion at the expense of readers having to adapt their preferred reading schedules to that of the discussion?
Since my personal interest is in a quality discussion, I tend to skip discussions where all the threads are posted up front because I find that they just aren't the best format for serious discussion. But I also understand the preferences of those who want to read at their own pace and post comments on a section when they get to that part of the book rather than having to wait (and maybe going off elsewhere and not getting back to the discussion).
It's just one of those choices that moderators have to make as to how they want their group to operate (or in some groups where different moderators lead discussions, the individual moderator is given the choice of how to structure the threads). I can't say that either is right or wrong; they're just different, and appeal to different interests vis-a-vis a primary emphasis on reading the books and a primary emphasis on discussing the books.
Thank you for the insight Everyman. This is a very good explanation of what happens. I have been seeing this happen in another group of mine but could not put it as eloquently into worlds and make sense to what is happening as you did.I am looking forward to this read. I have read Women and White and Moonstone.
I read fast and I've read this book before and I plan on commenting the heck out of it.
And I am now convinced the annotations should be separate.
I hope to be able to comment on this book. I'll be reading it off of my kindle.
Thanks for continuing the comments regarding the set-up of our discussion. These are wonderful and I appreciate it so much. You all ARE the Victorians group and the discussions are what make us all keep coming back to the group. We will do our best as moderators to make it all work.This discussion on set-up is still out, of course, but I will today go ahead and post a supplemental folder if anyone wants to post any material (we'll call it pre-material)that might relate to No Name or Wilkie Collins. We can use as needed as the actual reading discussion gets going.
My true thanks!
Hi this will be my first read along with the group. I'm planning on reading the Project Gutenberg edition on my Nook. I looked at the setup and it appears to be the same as yours with the scenes and the between scenes. I'm looking forward to discussing the book with you all.
This will also be my first read with this group. I, too, downloaded the book from Gutenberg.org, but for my Kindle. The set up is the same as well. I do have to say that Wilkie Collins is one of my all-time favorite authors, and this is one of his books that I HAVE NOT yet read. I am looking forward to this adventure!
This is going to be my first read with the group as well. So far I have only read The Moonstone, by Collins, and am returning to The Woman in White after a brief hiatus. I loved The Moonstone, but found The Woman in White a little tedious. Nevertheless, I'm excited about No Name.In terms of our discussion schedule, I tend to be a faster reader, but I wouldn't mind having a slower pace so that we can stay together as a group. I agree with Everyman, quality discussion is a highlight for me. However, I'm open to doing it either way.
I know it's early, but guys, guys! is anyone reading this yet? i just finished the first scene and i can't wait to talk with you all about it. if anyone has read anything, please just post as soon as you can the day after tomorrow! i just can't wait.. this is a really, really good book and it's already thrilling me more than i expected (cause it does start slow, but it kicks in later). i sure hope someone's reading it a little early same as me so i can talk to someone :D
Evelina wrote: "I know it's early, but guys, guys! is anyone reading this yet? i just finished the first scene and i can't wait to talk with you all about it. if anyone has read anything, please just post as soon ..."Ready, willing and waiting. This is my first group read with you and I am looking forward to it. I have cheated and have read ahead!
I'm typing up the annotations and will paste them into the slot. I'll try to be as specific as possible without usi g page numbers.
Testing annotations.Dedication
"Francis Carr Beard" - Beard became Collins's doctor during the composition of No Name. He treated Collins for 'rheumatic gout', mainly with laudanum {a mixture of opium and alcohol}. It is generally thought that Collins's addiction to opium dates from this period.
Evelina wrote: "I know it's early, but guys, guys! is anyone reading this yet? i just finished the first scene and i can't wait to talk with you all about it. if anyone has read anything, please just post as soon ..."Evelina. I too have started reading and is finding it very interesting (like most books written in this era), however; the discussion threads has to be posted by the moderator. I am writing down my thoughts so that I won't forget once the discussion gets on the way.
Teresa wrote: "Testing annotations.Dedication
"Francis Carr Beard" - Beard became Collins's doctor during the composition of No Name. He treated Collins for 'rheumatic gout', mainly with laudanum {a mixture of ..."
This is interesting and something I did not know. Thank you.
I have decided to post the reading threads up front, however, I will post a reading/discussion schedule here -- I will revise my first comment in this thread to include dates. That means I will be moderating according to the schedule and encourage as many as possible who want to discuss with that pace. Of course those who want to comment at a faster pace can do so. So please join us beginning, Saturday, Feb. 1.
SarahC wrote: "I have decided to post the reading threads up front, however, I will post a reading/discussion schedule here -- I will revise my first comment in this thread to include dates. That means I will be ..."Thanks SarahC. Make it a great day!
You are welcome. You too! And so glad you are joining us for the discussion.
There is also a long Introduction in my book. I'll see if it's worth typing up. Ugh.
Teresa wrote: "There is also a long Introduction in my book. I'll see if it's worth typing up. Ugh."Teresa. Typing the intro is "above and beyond" what are already doing. I think it is not necessary--that is my humble opinion. Also, most books have a introduction.
Evelina wrote: "I know it's early, but guys, guys! is anyone reading this yet? i just finished the first scene and i can't wait to talk with you all about it. if anyone has read anything, please just post as soon ..."I've started it.
only one day left then to share your thoughts with us :)
Teresa, yes, please do not type in the introduction. I welcome you to comment from, paraphrase portions to your interest, etc., but certainly not needed to type in an introduction -- many editions of this book will have introductory material to get people started. And several of us have some background knowledge of Collins, so we should be good to get started.
Collins always wrote an introduction to his books, against everyone's advice. It is actually a part of the book, so shouldn't be missing, I assume.
Evelina wrote: "only one day left then to share your thoughts with us :)"Since Sarah has said that she's going to open all the threads at the beginning of the discussion, so some readers may be posting events from late in the book in the first week or two of the discussion, please be careful not to post spoilers in the threads for earlier sections of the book.
I started last night. I haven't read a Victorian read for awhile now so I am back to getting use to wording and phrases. It is very enjoyable so far.
SarahC wrote: "I have decided to post the reading threads up front, however, I will post a reading/discussion schedule here -- I will revise my first comment in this thread to include dates. That means I will be ..."Just an observation, not a criticism: the serious discussion of No Name pretty much ended several weeks ago, leaving not much happening in the group recently. This is, in my view, a consequence of posting all the discussion threads up front. Looking, for example, at Scene 5, which was scheduled for February 22, the first post was Feb 14, more than a week earlier, and the last post was on Feb 23. Scenes 7&8, scheduled for March 8th, the discussion started on Feb 11, discussion went on until Feb 25 and then stopped until I started posting per the schedule on March 8th, when there was a bit more activity. But who knows who we lost between those times, people who had finished the book and moved on.
I don't know whether the discussion would have been more robust if the threads had been posted according to the schedule, but it is clear that by their all being posted ahead of time, many readers read through the book well ahead of schedule, and did their posting and weren't heard from when the schedule following posters showed up to discuss.
As I said, this is an observation, not a criticism. It is a choice a moderator has to make, and each moderator should make it according to how they think the group will work best, but it's also clear that the format of and participation level in a discussion is very different under the two approaches.
Everyman wrote: "SarahC wrote: "I have decided to post the reading threads up front, however, I will post a reading/discussion schedule here -- I will revise my first comment in this thread to include dates. That m..."I want to say this: when I start reading a book, I just read in my own time (usually finished within a week) and I don't postpone a part just because I can't discuss it yet. I actually find it a bit annoying that I can't post any comments about a part which I read, just because I'm ahead of schedule.
And yes, I have to add: when I have finished a book, I don't follow the discussions any more - because I've moved on to another book...
It's probably one of the difficulties when reading a book with so many pages...
Elsbeth wrote: "And yes, I have to add: when I have finished a book, I don't follow the discussions any more - because I've moved on to another book"Which I fully understand, but I'm sad that it means it's unlikely that I will ever be able to enjoy discussing anything but the earliest chapters of a book with you, since by the time I get to the later chapters you will have moved on.
I read fast, and do discussions as I go along. And I keep going back to discussions later.
cut to your name. I love it. I comment doesn't refer to the book, but to your name. I wish I had thought of it.I collect the "Everyman" publications. Have loved the quote since I was a kid.
Everyman wrote: "Elsbeth wrote: "And yes, I have to add: when I have finished a book, I don't follow the discussions any more - because I've moved on to another book"Which I fully understand, but I'm sad that it ..."
Yes, I agree. It is sad that I can't discuss the later chapters of the books with you. Of course I still sometimes look at the discussions, but I find I don't enjoy them much anymore long after I finished the book and being in full reading of something totally different... I'm sorry...
Mod
Sometimes, I do get so caught up in the story, that I finish ahead of schedule. In those cases, I absolutely check back in on threads that I have read beyond, but am only likely to respond if I have something to contribute. And, sometimes I fall behind, because I've gotten caught up in something else. In which case, I sincerely appreciate those willing to spiral back and chat about events they have read past.
Whether threads are posted up front or on a weekly basis is irrelevant to me. (Generally, I feel moderators should do what works for them.) However, I would hazard that most of us read at the pace we can, and contribute to discussion when we can, fitting those things in as our personal lives allow. It is one of the perks of online discussion folders over meeting in person. Here we can meet not only across continents, but also across time constraints.
One thing I do appreciate immensely is the separate folder system. It enables me to have more freedom of discussion, without worrying too much about spoilers.
Mod
I do know what Everyman means. However, it seems that people who read ahead and drop off are going to do so, no matter when the folders are opened. (Again, thank you to those who spiral back, as the rest of us catch up.)
Renee wrote: "BTW, I just took at look at the number of postings per folder for another GR group that posts their folders weekly. (I didn't look at quality, just quantity) Typically the first two folders have th..."Thank you for this comment, Renee!
It makes me feel a bit less guilty... I really do enjoy the discussions, but can't read too many books at the same time (like you do), so I just discuss them as I go along. And sometimes it means I'm ahead of schedule and sometimes I drop in after a few weeks. It depends.
And about No Name: I really loved that story! I had never read anything by Wilkie Collins, but will absolutely read more books by him!
Victorians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Moonstone (other topics)The Woman in White (other topics)
No Name (other topics)
No Name (other topics)
I saw we have a few votes for this title in the poll and I would certainly encourage more members to join us in discussing. We have discussed at least two other of his works and they have been great discussions of his suspenseful writing. And it sounds that No Name was considered radical at the time, so I look forward to exploring that with you all.
To get us moving ahead with this upcoming discussion, I wanted to check on a couple of items. I know it has just been mentioned in posted comments that we should look at the schedule of posting the discussion parts. For No Name, I will be posting the threads, so please let me know your thoughts on the timing and schedule of putting these up.
Secondly, I want to check with which edition everyone has.
In my hand I have this edition No Name
I understand it to be set from the one-volume 1864 British edition, (as opposed to the earlier 3-volume)and is separated into "Scenes."
Between each Scene is a section called "Between the Scenes."
If you will be reading from something that greatly varies from this, please post here and we'll see if we need to adapt our plan.
Looking over it last night, I propose the discussion breakdown as follows:
A discussion of the following sections per week:
Scene 1 including the "Between the Scenes" that follows that scene Feb 1
Scene 2 and Scene 3 and their following "Betweens"
Feb 8
Scene 4 and the Between
Feb 15
Scene 5 and the Between
Feb 22
Scene 6 and the Between
Mar 1
Scene 7 and Scene 8 and the Between that follows 7
Mar 8
This will make the entire discussion a 6-week event. I did the grouping above with regards to the size of certain scenes.
As usual, anyone can join in on the discussion at any time during the month. Most of us who love to discuss will discuss any part of it, even if we are forward to another point in the novel at the time someone posts at an earlier section of the comments.
But please do everyone think about the point of do we only want to post a discussion section or two at a time -- does this keep the group of us staying more "with" each other? Does that help? I know there are different schools of thought on this. Some readers see the advantage of all threads being posted so comments can be made for those who read quickly and want to post their thoughts without waiting. Both methods are certainly valid, and I just wanted to get a feel from the folks are planning to join this read.
Let me know your comments or questions and I hope you are having a wonderful day.