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1/13 Les Miserables, Volume I, Book II (Part I, Book II), SPOILERS ALLOWED FOR THIS SECTION ONLY
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Zulfiya
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Jan 12, 2014 10:26PM
After a very productive discussion of the first book, this week we are discussing book II. And we are introduced to a new character, whose role is hard to underestimate in this novel.
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Nice to meet you, Jean Valjean, an ex-convict, and a man in whose heart desperation lives. The character is loosely based on Eugene Francois Vidocq, an ex-convict, later a successful businessman, and a philanthropist. http://vidocq.org/vidocq.html
I hope you have enjoyed the discussion we had last week, and because the strategy seemed to be successful, I think asking questions can be useful, and they will give us a certain direction and can be used as a starting point in our discussion.
1. Book I, in contrast to Book II, looks like a fairy tale, or an idyllic setting with the do-gooder, Bishop Myriel, but the arrival of Jean Valjean changes the atmosphere of Digne and its outskirts. He stirs up trouble, and his interaction with the members of this community is a significant way to characterize both Jean Valjean and the dwellers of Digne and its surroundings. It is a brilliant characterization-in-action. What do we learn about Valjean and about the members of the Bishop's congregation?
2. According to the references of the previous book, the citizens of Digne are predominately religious people, but they do not treat Jean Valjean according to the tenets of their faith. More over, they have a shining example of loving, generous, charitable bishop, but they are still very cruel in their treatment of Valjean. Is it the case of ignorance, prejudice, indifference, hypocrisy, or shall we explain this behavior using the Latin proverb 'Homo homini lupus est ' (Man is a wolf to [his fellow] man)? Is it a time-specific observation about human nature or is it an axiom that stands the test of time?
3. Jean Valjean is hungry, exhausted, tired, and even a dog starts growling at him unwilling to share its space with this man. In his plight, Valjean exclaims, 'I am not even a dog'. Is it true? Is a dog more useful than this ex-convict? Is any dog more respected than Jean Valjean (dogs are fed, played with, and taken care of while Valjean is kicked out of every place he goes to without even being tossed a bone)?
4. The only person who treats him with love and dignity is the bishop; Valjean is profoundly moved by the bishop's kindness, but he still steals the only valuables from the bishop's house. Why does he steal the silverware? Why does he mistreat Little Gervais? Is Jean Valjean reformed at the end of the book? Is his moral conversion complete? Has he become a believer? A religious believer or a believer in human goodness?
5. What are the questions that you asked yourself after you finished reading Book II? Is Hugo optimistic about human nature or is he mostly an observer, a naturalist of sorts?
Please share your thoughts in any form you like. You are not required to answer these questions, but I hope they will spice up the discussion and will be instrumental and conducive to productive discussion.
P. S. Feel free to share the lines that talked to your heart … and mind.
I have yet to read this section. Joining this group has ruffled my reading priorities. I also cannot wait too much time to finish this book. After I've read Nicholas Nickleby - a big book - I'll read les mis in one go. So I'll be participating sparsely from now on. I've reasoned that this group is a great place to choose books to read. So I'll follow the choices this group makes, but won't be a regular poster here. Because I don't want to tarry and pause. Good luck to all for your reading!
1.What do we learn about Valjean and about the members of the Bishop's congregation?Although they all seem to respect and admire the Bishop, the churchmembers haven't taken his teachings to heart. All they see in Valjean is the convict, not a man.
Valjean started out life as a good, hardworking man, but he fell on hard times. He resorted to theft out of desperation and got caught. Prison seems to have broken him. If he had been thinking rationally, he could have left prison 14 years earlier, but instead he made several futile escape attempts and prolonged his suffering. He left prison a bitter, conflicted man.
2.Is it the case of ignorance, prejudice, indifference, hypocrisy, or shall we explain this behavior using the Latin proverb 'Homo homini lupus est ' (Man is a wolf to [his fellow] man)? Is it a time-specific observation about human nature or is it an axiom that stands the test of time?
I feel like it is a mixture of several things, prejudice and ignorance being the most prominent. It could also be related to fear since, rightly or wrongly, people often fear those who have once committed a crime. That saying is as true now as it was when it was written. Although there are some people who are open and compassionate toward all (like the bishop), many are not. The reasons vary from person to person, but the reason doesn't really matter to the person on the receiving end of their contempt.
3.In his plight, Valjean exclaims, 'I am not even a dog'. Is it true? Is a dog more useful than this ex-convict? Is any dog more respected than Jean Valjean (dogs are fed, played with, and taken care of while Valjean is kicked out of every place he goes to without even being tossed a bone)?
I would say that he is treated worse than a dog. Most people, upon seeing a starving and weary dog, would want to help. Valjean couldn't even get food and shelter by paying for it.
4.Why does he steal the silverware? Why does he mistreat Little Gervais? Is Jean Valjean reformed at the end of the book? Is his moral conversion complete? Has he become a believer? A religious believer or a believer in human goodness?
Valjean has left the prison, but his mind is still caught up in what happened there. After such a long time, he has no idea how to function in society. His reception in town has left him feeling hopeless, and all the bitterness and anger and frustration that has built up over the years has left him a complete mess. He feels like the world owes him, and he makes futile attempts to get back at it. Valjean is touched by the bishop's actions, yet he falls back into old habits immediately with Little Gervais. He feels great remorse for his behavior. I am undecided whether his moral conversion is complete, but I do suspect he believes that human goodness exists. I am very curious to see what will happen next.
5.What are the questions that you asked yourself after you finished reading Book II? Is Hugo optimistic about human nature or is he mostly an observer, a naturalist of sorts?
After I finished this section, I was very eager to find out what would happen next. I have somehow managed not to find out even the basics of the plot of this book, so I don't have any idea what is to come.
Hugo seems to have some hopes for redemption and the ability for people to become better. Portions of this book seem to be clear criticisms of the French justice system. He appears to be arguing for rehabilitation rather than harsh punishment, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
6.Favorite lines or sections
The scene where Valjean stands quietly in the room near the bishop before finally seizing the silver and fleeing had me absolutely on the edge of my seat. I was terrified of what might happen. It's going to be very hard to wait until the weekend to read the next section.
Anne wrote: "1.Valjean started out life as a good, hardworking man, but he fell on hard times. He resorted to theft out of desperation and got caught. Prison seems to have broken him. If he had been thinking rationally, he could have left prison 14 years earlier, but instead he made several futile escape attempts and prolonged his suffering. He left prison a bitter, conflicted man."While I was reading about Jean Valjean, I was wondering why he was trying to escape three times, knowing that it will exacerbate his situation. Were the conditions unbearable or did he think that his punishment was not commensurate with the crime he committed?
6. The scene where Valjean stands quietly in the room near the bishop before finally seizing the silver and fleeing had me absolutely on the edge of my seat. I was terrified of what might happen. It's going to be very hard to wait until the weekend to read the next section.
The scene is absolutely breathtaking and spellbinding in its emotional power. It is drama at its best, and we are only outsiders and can only imagine what storm of emotions Valjean was experiencing, in what battle of temptations he was involved , how guilt and doubts tortured his soul and is poor heart that suffered so much.
Just popping in because I don't want to be dropped from this group for non-participation. I'll try to be a little active. I haven't yet caught up, but hope to by next week. Les Mis is one of the classics that really stayed with me from high school (and I won't even say how long ago that was, but trust me, it's been a while ;-) ).
I did try to reread this book on my own last year and got sidetracked by other books. I'm hoping that reading it in a group will give me some accountability. I followed last week's discussion and read some of this week's, and am impressed by the insights of the people in the group. I'm not concerned about spoilers because I have read it before. It's just been a very long time.
I finished this section today and am still digesting. I spent most of the later part of the chapter much like Valjean, back and forth, back and forth, on which direction he was going to go. Even after finishing, I'm not entirely convinced he has truly made up his mind on that point. I do understand that he is a tortured soul, but I'm trying to understand his mental capacity or limitations at this point. Maybe that will become clearer as the book continues, but so far he seems to be not that intelligent or at least not far-thinking (given the repeated escape attempts). And then the whole scene with Little Gervais was strange to me. Not that he wouldn't give the money back, but ore the description of him which sounded like he was in a stupor or almost like having some kind of episode, like epilepsy or something. Is he that tortured and in his own head that he goes into these trance like states?
Kathy, from my personal experience, group discussions really help me to stay motivated and focused. I do most of my reading in groups now:-)
Victoria wrote: "but so far he seems to be not that intelligent or at least not far-thinking (given the repeated escape attempts). "I was wondering about this as well. I think he might feel the profound feeling of injustice, and sometimes it was bigger than common sense and was devouring him. How often do we succumb to emotions instead of reasoning?
Zulfiya wrote: "Victoria wrote: "but so far he seems to be not that intelligent or at least not far-thinking (given the repeated escape attempts). "I was wondering about this as well. I think he might feel the p..."
Plus, the galleys were not exactly a walk in the park. It was hard labour, humiliation, sleeping on the hard floor, being in chains all the time etc. I guess it is a place you grow desperate in, and I can understand that feeling of "I just have to get out!" His escape attempts might not be clever, but I think they are understandable.
Valjean finds that after his release he is "not even a dog", but I don't think his treatment was any better in the galleys. No wonder he is full of anger and hatred and revenge. That darkness is not a place for intelligence to grow in - he has had no need of it for the past 19 years, no encouragement. It's like the galleys have robbed him of whatever faculties he had before he went in.
Nina, you are right. Desperation is not the emotion that is conducive to thinking and musing.
Victoria wrote: "Not that he wouldn't give the money back, but ore the description of him which sounded like he was in a stupor or almost like having some kind of episode, like epilepsy or something. Is he that tortured and in his own head that he goes into these trance like states? "I found even the behavior of Little Gervais unlikely, but maybe that's just me.
i hope more readers will give vent to their impressions. This Jean Valjean arc is a classic and one of the most lifted passages for french schoolbooks.
Zulfiya wrote: "What are the questions that you asked yourself after you finished reading Book II? Is Hugo optimistic about human nature or is he mostly an observer, a naturalist of sorts? "He is a man of his times, and I am but a child of mine. I think he prepared the terrain well so I think he bent over backwards to kind of exonerate the theft of the silver. He pushed Jean far into darkness and now has to give this character a mighty pull to bring him back to redemption.
Zulfiya wrote: "The only person who treats him with love and dignity is the bishop; Valjean is profoundly moved by the bishop's kindness, but he still steals the only valuables from the bishop's house. Why does he steal the silverware? Why does he mistreat Little Gervais? Is Jean Valjean reformed at the end of the book? Is his moral conversion complete? Has he become a believer? A religious believer or a believer in human goodness? "I think Jean is lacking in morals. Since he is a grown up there is little probability for change in him. Of course, us readers know better. The end of the Book had me scratching my head. I don't buy the metamorphosis. People may have loved this part in the past, but not yours truly. I think it's a case of bad writing, blasphemous as that might seem.
Zulfiya wrote: "Book I, in contrast to Book II, looks like a fairy tale, or an idyllic setting with the do-gooder, Bishop Myriel, but the arrival of Jean Valjean changes the atmosphere of Digne and its outskirts. He stirs up trouble, and his interaction with the members of this community is a significant way to characterize both Jean Valjean and the dwellers of Digne and its surroundings. It is a brilliant characterization-in-action. What do we learn about Valjean and about the members of the Bishop's congregation?"In my ebook there's no mention of Digne, only D____. I wonder why.
As for the interaction between the populace and Jean, well I think it's the part that has survived most so it has a veracity for me. I think, however the ending of the Book is frozen-like, just like a fairy tale. So both books have this far away look. It's not yet grimdark.
My book also calls it D___. I suspect that is how it was written in the original.
Anne wrote: "My book also calls it D___. I suspect that is how it was written in the original."Which would be great, confirming the accuracy of the translation.
Kathy wrote: "Just popping in because I don't want to be dropped from this group for non-participation. I'll try to be a little active. I haven't yet caught up, but hope to by next week. Les Mis is one of the ..."
I find your idea intriguing. I do think that his life in prison and his subsequent treatment upon release has left him a broken man - someone who wants desperately to return to his former life, but who has no idea whatsoever how to accomplish this or even if that life is still within his grasp. I like the idea of his trance-like state being perhaps God working in his heart to resolve the bitterness and hatred he feels toward mankind. I want very much to believe that he will make a sincere change in his behavior. After all, he was originally jailed for stealing food for his starving family - not exactly a blood thirsty crime. The years in jail have hardened him - perhaps a kind man remains inside somewhere.
Luffy wrote: "I don't buy the metamorphosis. People may have loved this part in the past, but not yours truly. I think it's a case of bad writing, blasphemous as that might seem. "It is hard to accept both metamorphoses. Stealing the silverware from the only man who was kind to Jean Valjean and then making him realize and understand the misery of his decision is fist and foremost fiction, but fiction has a habit of telling the deeper, sacred truth about human beings and the world we live in. Many of us are now hopeful that Jean Valjean is the one whose life was truly changed by the Bishop. He (the bishop) obviously was a man of generous spirit, and many people admired him, but as we see very few followed his example.
Lisa wrote: "I find your idea intriguing. I do think that his life in prison and his subsequent treatment upon release has left him a broken man - someone who wants desperately to return to his former life, but who has no idea whatsoever how to accomplish this or even if that life is still within his grasp. "Ditto, another reason to like Hugo for his progressive ideas.
A punishment is only useful when it is commensurate with the severity of crime. Stealing bread to feed children deserves a fine at most and a condemnation of the society whose children (collectively and metaphorically) are starving.
Luffy wrote: "In my ebook there's no mention of Digne, only D____. I wonder why."My ebook also has D________., but the narrator in my audiobook clearly says, 'Digne'. The translator for the audiobook is Julie Rose.
Zulfiya wrote: "Many of us are now hopeful that Jean Valjean is the one whose life was truly changed by the Bishop. He (the bishop) obviously was a man of generous spirit, and many people admired him, but as we see very few followed his example."It seems for the majority of readers the Bishop is the one who sets the ball rolling. And from your quote it sounds like people are rooting for the Bishop to do well with Jean. But, I who have never read Les Mis, only want to be entertained. The Bishop is good because we cannot know what type of people he finds inferior. The populace of Digne are not following the Bishops example simply because the kind of people they declare inferior to themselves encompass more people than the Bishop's circle.
If you want to know a man really, you should observe how he behaves with people inferior to him, not those who are his equal.
Luffy wrote: "The Bishop is good because we cannot know what type of people he finds inferior. "I think he became more inclusive after he visited the Conventionalist, the event that is described in the previous book. He is more concerned with here and now, and he does keep the idea of Heaven and Hell in his mind, but somehow I feel it blurs into something more urgent and immediate: help now when you can, change the lives of people when you can. I am far from being religious, but I actually see why and how people must and can relate to the following line, "If you love one another, everyone will know you are my disciples". Somehow the feeling of inferior/superior being crept into this quote for no reason, and love is not the motto for people of Digne or in that case, for many other cities, towns, and villages and their inhabitants.
Human beings do have an amazing ability to hear their darker self. It is one of abilities that comes naturally to them ...
Zulfiya wrote: "I think he became more inclusive after he visited the Conventionalist"Yes, that was an important occurrence.
Zulfiya wrote: "If you love one another, everyone will know you are my disciples"What a lovely declaration.
Anne wrote: "I feel like it is a mixture of several things, prejudice and ignorance being the most prominent. It could also be related to fear since, rightly or wrongly, people often fear those who have once committed a crime."I completely agree with this assessment. And to be fair, as mentioned in question 4, Jean stole from the one person who WAS nice to him, so it seems the townsfolk were justified. And the thing about the yellow passport, it just marks him as a criminal. It seems that murderers and bread thieves get the same yellow passport, so how are they to know better? Jean didn't try to tell them what he had done, and why should they believe him if he had?
But the bishop did exactly what I would expect him to do. Were I a criminal of any sort in Jean's position, I would have gone to a church for shelter.
I finished this section a few days ago and have been letting it simmer in my brain. This was a very interesting section, and I agree with whoever said you can definitely see Hugo's beliefs about the French justice system shining through here.I have the same complaints as most about Jean's prolonged jail time. After the first time he got caught and saw his sentence lengthened, I'd have expected him to learn to stay put. And most definitely after the second time. But he did it again? And always with only a year remaining, it seemed. Dumb.
I don't think that anyone can completely reform that quickly, but I do think the bishop made an impression on him and that he will try to do the right thing more often.
I was really confused about what happened with Little Gervais, though. Or rather, I was confused about what happened with Jean. The kid drops the coin, Jean steps on it and won't give it back. Kid gets upset, eventually runs off... and eventually Jean moves and is surprised to find the coin there? Did he forget? I can understand having a change of heart, but his confusion about the coin now has me stumped.
Anyway, now we have met two characters who seem to be going in completely different directions -- the bishop staying put in Digne, and Jean on his way to try to make a living. Will we meet yet a third in the next book, or start to follow one of these two?
I note that Jean will become important based on titles from future chapters/sections.
Deana wrote: "Will we meet yet a third in the next book, or start to follow one of these two?"Fantine is the title for Volume I, so there should be another one called Fantine:-)
I was really confused about what happened with Little Gervais, though. Or rather, I was confused about what happened with Jean. The kid drops the coin, Jean steps on it and won't give it back. Kid gets upset, eventually runs off... and eventually Jean moves and is surprised to find the coin there? Did he forget? I can understand having a change of heart, but his confusion about the coin now has me stumped.
I am also confused about this episode, but the battle between good and evil is an ongoing one. We mostly know that some things are bad, and some things are good, but temptation is always there as well.
That small still voice,the voice of one's conscience, can often be muffled, and it stays this way in many humans, but in case of Jean Valjean, he managed to hear it despite the wall of his embitterment and past experience. It did take him some time to hear it and to let it guide him, and I believe that the episode with Gervais makes his transformation even more believable.
I just broke down and ordered a $4 copy of the Cliff Notes for this. I really don't think I've seen a Cliff Notes since high school AP English 30 years ago! I'm just finding myself too frustrated with the obscure references and not willing or able to really invest the time in side research. I got the most frustrated reading the beginning of Book III. So instead of throwing my hands up in defeat, I will be cheating!
Book III is culturally challenging, but at least it is a quick read.
I was looking at an online version of Cliff Notes. I read their summary and analysis after reading each book. Unless the printed version has a lot more than the online one, it wasn't much help for Book III. My translator left whole sections in the original French, and I haven't been able to find any explanations for their meaning. My own French is limited to about 15 words, so I was completely lost. I was loving the book up until that point, but now I'm frustrated and annoyed. I'll say more once the thread for the next section has opened.
Thanks Anne. Yes, I sidetracked us since it's really book III so I will table further replies until that thread,
Anne wrote: "I was looking at an online version of Cliff Notes."Is it a free version? If so could you share the link? I found a summary for each section, but it doesn't explain any of the references.
Sorry for just now posting - I've had Book II read for two weeks now and got sidetracked with other reads not wanting to get too far ahead in Les Mis. Anyway, I enjoyed Book II quite a bit, especially since it was such a contrast with Book I. A lot of the comments people already mentioned also crossed my mind.
I was also baffled as to why Jean Valjean attempted so many escapes, only to have them lengthen his sentence by so many more years. I suppose that the cruelty he faced within the prison walls was much more than a human can face without looking for immediate relief, and thus escape, and not really thinking what the repercussions would be if he was caught.
I think what Anne said about Jean Valjean being treated worse than a dog was put perfectly:
I would say that he is treated worse than a dog. Most people, upon seeing a starving and weary dog, would want to help. Valjean couldn't even get food and shelter by paying for it.
As to how the townspeople of Digne treated Jean Valjean (my traslation actually says "Digne" and not "D_____", I have the copy listed above), I think that their reactions can come from various sources: prejudice, fear, indifference. Even the bishop's sister and maid showed fear when the bishop wanted to go help the one region where there were criminals known to be, and then the bishop ended up going alone.
Like many have already commented, I was also baffled by the exchange between Little Gervais and Jean Valjean. I didn't understand what was happening to Valjean, how he could be standing on the coin and not realize it or even see that the boy was speaking to him. But I like Zulfiya's explanation of there being that small voice that we all hear within us, and in Valjean's case that voice is still there, buried but not gone:
That small still voice,the voice of one's conscience, can often be muffled, and it stays this way in many humans, but in case of Jean Valjean, he managed to hear it despite the wall of his embitterment and past experience. It did take him some time to hear it and to let it guide him, and I believe that the episode with Gervais makes his transformation even more believable.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the Bishop and Jean Valjean develop throughout the novel, and how they interact with each other assuming they do meet again later on. Like Anne, I have no idea where this story or characters are to travel or end up.
Linda wrote: "Sorry for just now posting - I've had Book II read for two weeks now and got sidetracked with other reads not wanting to get too far ahead in Les Mis. "I know how you feel in your shoes. I am trying to juggle several reads:-)
I think that their reactions can come from various sources: prejudice, fear, indifference. Even the bishop's sister and maid showed fear when the bishop wanted to go help the one region where there were criminals known to be, and then the bishop ended up going alone.
I do see how he can hesitate. He might actually believe that the bishop is playing some practical joke on him because everyone was so hostile towards him; he could feel apprehension coming even from the bishop's sister and the maid. I think I would have suspected something fishy in his place.
I also understand why and how some of us, readers, could be hesitant about the story and the characters, but because the book is so massive, it is only logical to assume that we will spend a third of the book only exploring the background and going down with the miserable, the poor, the wretched, and the fallen.
I am reading with you guys, so obviously I am clueless about many things :-( I know Everyman read it, and I hope he will join us again to give us a sense of direction even if I do not agree with all his convictions. But hey, reading is a personal experience and each interpretation is correct if substantiated. :-)
I imagined Valjean's scene with Little Gervais not as a matter of him robbing the boy, but as him standing there, completely self-absorbed. He is deep in thought over himself and doesn't shake off this stupor in order to listen to what Little Gervais is shouting at him. I don't think it is that uncommon to ignore someone when we are deep in thought--especially a child.
When he does come back to himself, we looks around, sees the coin, realizes what Gervais wanted and that by ignoring him at the time he effectively robbed a child.
This is a turning point. Valjean realizes the importance of listening to others. He goes on to make this his driving motivation.
Kelly wrote: "Valjean realizes the importance of listening to others."Spot on. Listening means compassion!
Deana wrote: "Is it a free version? If so could you share the link? I found a summary for each section, but it doesn't explain any of the references."It is a free version. It has summaries and some analysis but no explanation of the foreign terms. Some historical context is in the analysis.
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature...
Thank you, Anne!
I was surprised by some of the comments on this section, but then realized that many of you have not previously read the book or seen any adaptations of it, so I'll keep my thoughts that would contain spoilers to myself.In response to the Petit Gervais scene, I found it heartbreaking, because I think from the way it's written it's clear that Valjean kept the coin on purpose. But his mind is going through so much turmoil that by the time he really processes what he's done, it's like he's been in a dreamworld and truly HAS forgotten all about the coin. Of course by then it's fruitless to do anything to rectify the situation.
I always found the part where the bishop gives him the candlesticks to be one of the most powerful moments in all of literature. It epitomizes the commandment that if someone steals your coat, give him your tunic as well. The bishop doesn't have a sense of "mine" but rather items borrowed from God and from fellow man. He does not feel a violation of "his" things but rather compassion for someone who, despite being given a meal and a warm bed, still decides to steal from his benefactors. What a wretch of a man he must be! And so he is filled with compassion and compels Valjean to do and do good, because this is the bishop's greatest desire on earth, the restoration of souls.
And while at this point we certainly don't know whether this "conversion" or whatever word you want to use, of Valjean is permanent, I'm surprised there is so much adversity to it. Has none of you ever known someone who has undergone a rapid and permanent change because of a moment in their life? I have. It's not so astonishing as it is compelling and awe-inspiring. It can happen to someone who is "good": a single moment can turn them into a bitter, angry person. Why not the other way around? Not to start controversy, I was just surprised at the reaction.
Alana wrote: "I always found the part where the bishop gives him the candlesticks to be one of the most powerful moments in all of literature. "I agree - it is a powerful passage!
But I disagree that the comments about Valjean's transformation are hostile. On a human level we all understand how and why he was reacting the way he did, but on the literary level, the transformations of that kind are usually either instantaneous or very obvious. And here the credit goes to Hugo. Despite his romantic impulsive streak, he is also a naturalist and a keen observer of human nature.
Anne wrote: "I would say that he is treated worse than a dog. Most people, upon seeing a starving and weary dog, would want to help. Valjean couldn't even get food and shelter by paying for it."But what was that saying I can't quote exactly, that the difference between man and a dog is that a dog doesn't bite the hand that feeds it.
He may have been treated worse than a dog, but he also behaved worse than a dog. If a dog who was hungry and cold and wet and miserable had been taken in and warmed and fed and given a soft bed to lie in, the dog would not have turned around and bitten those who were good to him.
The other quote that sprang to mind when Valjean was driven out of the kennel is from Lear: "A dog's obeyed in office." Valjean was, we are told, incredibly strong and supple, he had an iron rod in his pack which he could have used to attack the dog, but he let himself be chased away. Why?
Kathy wrote: "Just popping in because I don't want to be dropped from this group for non-participation. I'll try to be a little active. I haven't yet caught up, but hope to by next week. "
You're not alone. I have just finished Book 2 this evening, have been occupied with end of year stuff (I do financial reports, taxes, payroll forms, and the like for a nonprofit organization and this time of year it's busy.) But I'm peddling as fast as I can!
Nina wrote: "Plus, the galleys were not exactly a walk in the park. It was hard labour, humiliation, sleeping on the hard floor, being in chains all the time etc. "The notes in my edition comment that the term galley-slave is really a hold-over from earlier centuries when prisoners really were assigned to row galleys. By the 1800s, most of the work was in shipyards. Still hard work, but perhaps not as brutal as the phrase "galley-slave" suggests to me, at least.
Victoria wrote: "I finished this section today and am still digesting. I spent most of the later part of the chapter much like Valjean, back and forth, back and forth, on which direction he was going to go. Even a..."Good post. I agree with much of what you say. I, too, went back and forth about him, from pity to disgust, from feeling he was mistreated to feeling that he, after all, caused his situation, both by the original theft and, much more significantly, by his multiple escape attempts. Hugo does a good job of trying to justify these, but clearly he was not thinking logically by the third and fourth attempts, knowing how quickly he had been recaptured in his earlier attempts and the dire consequence of those few days of freedom.
What we are seeing is the gradual disintegration of the human, almost every speck of humanity, of decency, being driven out of him. But the anomaly is that he participated in the school which taught him reading, mathematics, and perhaps other learning. I find this not matching up with the rest of his character. He certainly had no apparent interest (at least Hugo offers no evidence of it) in his first 27 years before he went to prison; how is it that after many years of imprisonment he is able to develop an interest in learning, which then apparently has done him no good at least in moral terms. I find this an unexplained incongruity.
Luffy wrote: "People may have loved this part in the past, but not yours truly. I think it's a case of bad writing, blasphemous as that might seem."
Bad writing in terms of unrealistic character presentation, I can see that. But I found it emotionally powerful reading. I had forgotten from my first reading of the work, years ago, just how engrossing this section is, even though I don't find it a completely convincing portrayal of a realistic character.
Luffy wrote: "As for the interaction between the populace and Jean, well I think it's the part that has survived most so it has a veracity for me."And although one can criticize the townspeople for not being as compassionate as the bishop, isn't it the case that they were proved right? If he had housed at either of the inns, or in anybody else's private house, isn't it likely that he would have stolen from them, too? As Hugo says, there was a good reason why his passport described him as dangerous.
And if he had stolen from any of the other people in the town, and been caught, it would have been back to prison for sure. The bishop is really the only person in town, isn't he, who lives in reality the instruction that if one takes your cloak, you are to give him your coat also?
