A Game of Thrones
discussion
A theory you may find interesting.
Actually, this theory is being argued by a lot of people. In fact, no offense intended, it's pretty much common knowledge at this point in the series. It's been hinted at multiple times throughout the five existing books that John has Targaryen blood, and the "promise" Ned made to Lyanna on her deathbed was to protect John by keeping his true identity a secret. That's also the explanation as to why Lyanna was lying in a pool of her own blood when Ned found her. It was from giving birth to John. However, you're wrong on one front. The truth, which again is intimated a number of times in the story, is that Rhaegar didn't abduct Lyanna at all, but that the two fell in love and eloped. Robert naturally chose to believe she was abducted because he loved Lyanna and couldn't bear the thought that she was in love with someone else. But of course, all that got buried when Rhaegar's father - Arys II, "The Mad King" - chose to murder Ned's father and brother and order Robert and Ned's deaths as well.
But Ned found out when he discovered his sister on her death bed. The only reason he let people think John Snow was his bastard or that Lyanna was abducted and raped was because he knew that if Robert, who was now king, ever learned the truth, that he would fly into a rage and have John murdered. As you yourself said, all the Targaryen's had been killed at this point, even the children (except of course for the few that made it to Essos). It would not have been absurd at all for Ned to assume that the same fate would befall John if the truth got out.
So really, it's not only possible, but entirely plausible. Sure, Ned let John believe he was a bastard child and let Catelyn feel betrayed for it, but by maintaining this lie, he was protecting his nephew's life and keeping a promise he made to his sister on her deathbed. That's certainly what a man of honor would do in that situation.
Who is this John? Ned's 'bastard' is Jon Snow.
My mistake, I meant Jon Snow.
Matthew wrote: "Actually, this theory is being argued by a lot of people. In fact, no offense intended, it's pretty much common knowledge at this point in the series. It's been hinted at multiple times throughout ..."Extremely well put, Matthew. I think that's the most common fan theory in SOIAF.
Just to complement your points, there's also the facts that:
1. THREE members of the Kingsguard were being "wasted" protecting Lyanna in the Tower of Joy, while war raged.
2. Rhaegar crowned Lyanna queen of love and beauty at the tourney in Harrenhall.
3. Catelyn tells Sansa that, like Arya, Jon resembles Lyanna.
It is also important to notice that, after [SPOILER]
Ned's death, Howland Reed in the only survivor of the battle at the Tower of Joy, and the only one alive that know what Ned promised Lyanna.
PS: As I read the books in portuguese, the names of stuff may be mixed and/or different. Pay no attention, as long as the point is clear. o/
Thanks everyone. These are really good and interesting points. I didn't realise it was so known for other people too. But I think it's an awesome twist to the game. Of course Jon looks like Ned, he's his uncle!
i've also believed this for a while, and that jon will become a dragon rider, and with bran a skin-changer (promised he would fly by the 3-eyed-crow) would posess the dragon as a form of controll (needing magic or something to tame them)
I really like this theory! I also hope that Daenerys and Jon end up together, though I just realized she could be his aunt.
I love this theory! Makes so much sense. Question that still remains: any news on when next book's out???
looks like daenerys has her pick of her nephew's with Aegon not dead (the dragon has 3 heads)
Marte wrote: "I really like this theory! I also hope that Daenerys and Jon end up together, though I just realized she could be his aunt."There's no obstacle to Dany being with Jon. Incest is normal between Targaryens.
I too would like for them to end up together, altough there IS a third head out there.
And things happened in books 4-5
Isaac, I agree completely with your points.Also, with Aegon (if he truly is the real one) and Jon, Dany will have her 3-headed Dragon. ;)
I mean, as much as I like Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan, I don't believe they qualify enough. At max, they'll be part of her Queensguard, with Belwas, Daario (although I do NOT like him at all).
Anyways, I just can't wait for Winds of Winter.
The wait is so damn long... =/
It's been a long time since I read this book but did Lyanna have dark hair then? Jon obviously doesn't have the silver hair of the Targaryen's nor the violet eyes. I'm assuming there was a description of Lyanna somewhere and I've just forgotten it.
Kari wrote: "It's been a long time since I read this book but did Lyanna have dark hair then? Jon obviously doesn't have the silver hair of the Targaryen's nor the violet eyes. I'm assuming there was a descri..."Yes, dark hair, like the Starks. Arya resembles Lyanna, although I think it's clear Lyanna was much prettier.
Gotta remember what Jon Arryn said: the seed is strong. I think the dark hair is stronger than the silver, just like it's stronger than the blonde.
Jeff wrote: "Isaac, I agree completely with your points.Also, with Aegon (if he truly is the real one) and Jon, Dany will have her 3-headed Dragon. ;)
I mean, as much as I like Ser Jorah and Ser Barristan, I..."
I agree with everything you said. I too don't like Daario.
But we gotta be careful with the Mummer's Dragon: I don't think Aegon is a Targaryen, but a Blackfyre
Who is Aegon? Sorry for not knowing, but I haven't read this book :/
Todd wrote: "Who is Aegon? Sorry for not knowing, but I haven't read this book :/"Which, A Dance With Dragons? We can't answer that, as it's a rather important plot point and would violate the spoiler clause. And I don't mean important like it's kind of intrinsic to this one book, I'm talking full-blown plot point that's a big game changer for the series. Get a copy and start reading, you'll see what I mean ;)
I'm not sure about that, honestly. I think it is possible that he might be the real Targaryen, but I don't care enough to speculate, really.I'm way more interested in Jon's, Arya's and Dany's future.
We'll have to wait and see, I guess. =/
Yeah, sorry about that, forgot I was in a discussion about the first book. Keep reading, keep reading.5th book spoiler:
(view spoiler)
I am too more interested in Jon, Arya and Dany, and Bran, unlike many people, I like Bran
Whats the last book called? (that is has been written and published)?????
Todd wrote: "Whats the last book called? (that is has been written and published)?????"The last published book is called A Dance with Dragons
One question: why has Jon Snows black Hair like the Baratheons?The Targaryens have silver hair and I thought the Starks more of a light colour but no definite black curls.
The Starks are dark as well, at least used to be! And since the Targaryens are blond, it's just a matter of dominant and recessive genes; black or dark being dominant.
Yes, I checked it on the Wiki of Ice and Fire, still interesting that Ned's Actor is merely dark blonde. But the Targaryens in the series don't have lilac eyes either...
The Starks are not described having black hair, like the Baratheons, but dark brown hair. Jon's hair is dark brown, but is so dark that it's close to black. I think the dark colors are dominant.
Check this wiki: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/...
It's based on the books. The actors not always meet the book's description precisely
Dark is definitely dominant, and the child can only be born with light hair if the parent with the dominant dark gene also carry the recessive light gene, which I'm sure none of the Starks did :)
Isaac wrote: Yes, dark hair, like the Starks. Arya resembles Lyanna, although I think it's clear Lyanna was much prettier.Gotta remember what Jon Arryn said: the seed is strong. I think the dark hair is stronger than the silver, just like it's stronger than the blonde.
Got it. I knew there probably was one but I read the books quite a while ago and haven't re-read. Thanks for the info.
I agree with you, again, Isaac.I hadn't considered Quaithe, though.
Either way, I don't really "like" Brandon. I don't dislike him, either. I am curious about his future, but if he were to die, for example, I wouldn't be too saddened, get it?
I don't know... I'm just thinking that we cannot really have many favorites when it comes to ASOIAF, for Mr. Martin enjoys his killings. :P
Todd wrote: "Thanks!"It was published over two and a half years ago, in July of 2011 to be exact. Is this seriously the first you're hearing about it?
I haven't read the books okay, I've just watched the show. Sorry for not knowing!
Todd wrote: "I haven't read the books okay, I've just watched the show. Sorry for not knowing!"Calm down, I was sympathizing, not judging. And if you can, I would say to get on them as soon as possible. The books are much better than the series and if you liked it, you'll love the books. Seriously though, you came up with this theory about Jon Snow's true origins all on your own, having never read a single book in the series?
Oh well actually, my friend told me all about this, I just couldn't be bothered to say it. But since it makes so much sense, I just thought I'd see what other people thought. And I have tried to read the books. I just can't get into them.
Todd wrote: "Oh well actually, my friend told me all about this, I just couldn't be bothered to say it. But since it makes so much sense, I just thought I'd see what other people thought. And I have tried to re..."So I take it your friend, who told you this theory, has read the books? And am I to conclude that you really don't plan on reading them in the end?
Todd wrote: "Yes."Okay, but would you read them now, knowing that they contain all the answers to this riddle?
Probably not. I love it and everything, but when I said I found it hard to get into, I meant that it was hard for me to read it because its so different from what I usually read.
Todd wrote: "Probably not. I love it and everything, but when I said I found it hard to get into, I meant that it was hard for me to read it because its so different from what I usually read."Well then how can you expect to discuss deep plot issues if all you know is what's on the show, or what your friend tells you? If you want to know what's really going on, you got to read the source material.
Ouch. Back off man, I just wanted to know what other people thought. I didn't want people picking on me with all these questions. You didn't have to answer.
Todd wrote: "Ouch. Back off man, I just wanted to know what other people thought. I didn't want people picking on me with all these questions. You didn't have to answer."How is it picking on you to ask the obvious questions? You started this forum claiming this was all your theory, now it seems that not only is that not true, but you haven't read a single one of the books and have no intention to. Whole discussion has become pointless now. But whatever, I'm out as it is.
Jeff wrote: "I agree with you, again, Isaac.I hadn't considered Quaithe, though.
Either way, I don't really "like" Brandon. I don't dislike him, either. I am curious about his future, but if he were to die, f..."
He sure does.
But although I get sad, sometimes REALLY sad, they all make sense, and that's good writing.
He sure does. But although I get sad, sometimes REALLY sad, they all make sense, and that's good writing.
I agree with you! There's nothing gratuitous about this series.
And to Todd... I'm not trying to start a new argument, but don't you think it was just a little silly to posit a theory as your own without having read the books? Seems to me you can't maintain a good discussion and you'd just be reading what everyone else thinks about it. Was that your intention?
You should be able to ask questions or have theories based on the TV-series as well. Come on.
Marte... I agree that you could, but the topic he brought up isn't really supported by the show. I imagine if I hadn't read the books but only watched the show, that wouldn't be a theory I could come up with. There's just not enough information in the show to wander down a path that would lead you there. At least I wouldn't be able to. It doesn't matter anyway.
I just don't get how I made this discussion and all, and lots of people started to comment and put in their thoughts. Then like ages later, someone started having a go at me. I mean why now? I don't see what's so wrong about me putting this idea out. I didn't mean to piss people off but clearly I have.
Todd wrote: "I just don't get how I made this discussion and all, and lots of people started to comment and put in their thoughts. Then like ages later, someone started having a go at me. I mean why now? I don'..."Really? Well as the person who had "a go at you", let me tell you that no one's pissed, just confused. You started this discussion thread claiming you had some "interesting theory". Then you told us that not only was this not your theory, but you hadn't read a single book in the series and weren't even planning on it.
What about this confuses you? You not only lied, you misrepresented yourself. Why would you start a discussion about a subject you have no real knowledge or appreciation for? You should have known you'd end up looking foolish or ignorant. So either crack a book and learn the material, or leave the discussions to people who actually know what they are talking about.
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Jon Snow is not Ned Stark's bastard. Ned's sister Lyanna who he loved oh so much, was raped by Rahgar Targaryen. (however you spell it.)
Lyanna became pregnant. That baby was Jon Snow. All the Targaryen's were killed, and of course Lyanna died. So Ned Stark, being the loving brother he was, took his sister's baby and raised him, pretending he was a bastard.
If you think about it, it's not impossible. Ned Stark was such a gentle, caring man. He was loyal and devoted to Lady Stark, would he really go off with a whore and come back with a bastard son? Think about it.